Is NO MAN'S LAND an AU?

[batE]

'Sup, all:

I just finished reading Greg Rucka's book No Man's Land, and I'm a mite confused on a couple of points -- first, was the book adapted from a graphic novel or a limited series? Seems I've heard the title before. Second, is this an AU or ELSEWORLDS? I mean, in the book, Gordon is married to Sarah Essen, a cop he left his wife for (in BTAS, I nevr saw a Mrs. Gordon, so I just assumed the Commish was a widower or something. But I've never seen Sub Zero, so maybe Mrs. Gordon (Barbara's mother) makes an appearance there.) Second, Barbara Gordon is paralyzed -- I understand that this is how she became Oracle, but it was sort of suprising to me. Third, the appearance of Cassandra Cain was sort of disconcerting. WAS she an actual Batgirl in some of the Bat comic titles? Fourth, in BTAS, Two-Face was engaged to someone named Grace. In NML, he makes allusions to his former (it never says if they're divorced or if she's dead) wife Gilda. And though I know Detective Renee Montoya appeared in BTAS, in NML, she seems very much like a Mary Sue., but maybe that's just me. Also, NML mentions that Robin (Tim Drake) was celebrating the holidays with his father, but I thought his father (in TNBA) was killed, and that's how Tim was taken in by Bruce.

Has anyone read the book? It's pretty good. It's very good, actually. I was shocked at how many characters Rucka was able to fit into one book, and the parts with the Penguin were especially good.


batE

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by batE
WAS she an actual Batgirl in some of the Bat comic titles? Fourth, in BTAS, Two-Face was engaged to someone named Grace. In NML, he makes allusions to his former (it never says if they're divorced or if she's dead) wife Gilda. And though I know Detective Renee Montoya appeared in BTAS, in NML, she seems very much like a Mary Sue., but maybe that's just me. Also, NML mentions that Robin (Tim Drake) was celebrating the holidays with his father, but I thought his father (in TNBA) was killed, and that's how Tim was taken in by Bruce.

No Man's Land was a massive storyline from the regular continuity comics and not based on BTAS or TNBA. So basically, NML "really happened" as it was in the official comics. I've read both the novel and the actual comics. Great, great stuff.

[Clayface]

As DarkAngel said NML was a massive storyline in the mainstream Batman comics.

Originally posted by batE

I mean, in the book, Gordon is married to Sarah Essen, a cop he left his wife for (in BTAS, I nevr saw a Mrs. Gordon, so I just assumed the Commish was a widower or something. But I've never seen Sub Zero, so maybe Mrs. Gordon (Barbara's mother) makes an appearance there.)

As far as I know, Jim's wife has never been talked about in the animated continuity. In the mainstream comics, he cheated on his wife and thus the breakup.

Second, Barbara Gordon is paralyzed -- I understand that this is how she became Oracle, but it was sort of suprising to me.

Barbara was shot in the spine by the Joker in The Killing Joke, a mainstream comic one-shot. She was paralyzed from then on.

Third, the appearance of Cassandra Cain was sort of disconcerting. WAS she an actual Batgirl in some of the Bat comic titles?

Her appearance was rather disconcerting to just about everyone that read the comci storyline. She was introduced out of nowhere and made the new Batgirl in NML, and has been ever since.

Fourth, in BTAS, Two-Face was engaged to someone named Grace. In NML, he makes allusions to his former (it never says if they're divorced or if she's dead) wife Gilda.

Yep, one of the many differences between the mainstream comics and the animated series.

Also, NML mentions that Robin (Tim Drake) was celebrating the holidays with his father, but I thought his father (in TNBA) was killed, and that's how Tim was taken in by Bruce.

The animated Tim Drake and the mainstream comics Tim are completely different in origin. In the mainstream comics Tim's dad was paralyzed by a batman villian.

Has anyone read the book? It's pretty good. It's very good, actually. I was shocked at how many characters Rucka was able to fit into one book, and the parts with the Penguin were especially good.

Like DarkAngel, I've read both the book and the original comics - very good stuff. This is why fans are so happy with Rucka - he's a great writer, and its awesome to have him as the regular writer of Detective comics.

[ZorBrak]

personally, as much I like NML I still like the animated plotline the best, to me, the animated batman is the real batman and always will be

[oranthal]

when i finished reading the novel, i flipped through the trade-paperback at my book store and there were some characters that were left out of the novel. the one that i really remebmer is that Azrael was not in the novel but was in the comic.

[Samhaine]

Originally posted by oranthal
when i finished reading the novel, i flipped through the trade-paperback at my book store and there were some characters that were left out of the novel. the one that i really remebmer is that Azrael was not in the novel but was in the comic.

Yeah, you're right. I read an interview with Rucka before the NML book came out, and he said he had to drop some stuff to fit everything in the book. Apparently, he also added some stuff. But it's two different mediums, not everything was going to be the same.

[I]ZorBrak said[\I]
personally, as much I like NML I still like the animated plotline the best, to me, the animated batman is the real batman and always will be

See, I might have agreed with you pre-NML. But then they got loads of great writers for the storylines running through NML, and after that, they had Rucka on 'Tec, Devin Grayson is pretty good on Gotham Knights, and we eventually got one of my favorite writers, Ed Brubaker, on Batman.

These three books are better now than they have been possibly all of the 90's. Well, better than Knightfall, anyway.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by bloodone

See, I might have agreed with you pre-NML. But then they got loads of great writers for the storylines running through NML, and after that, they had Rucka on 'Tec, Devin Grayson is pretty good on Gotham Knights, and we eventually got one of my favorite writers, Ed Brubaker, on Batman.

These three books are better now than they have been possibly all of the 90's. Well, better than Knightfall, anyway.

Yep, I'd have to agree. I grew up on the 80's Batman, and lost interest in the 90's interpretation of the character - the writing just wasn't up to snuff. But From NML on, I've been completely satisfied with the mainstream Batman comics.

[Joker85]

I, like a lot of you, read both the book and the comics. The book to me was better because it was a bit more fast paced. I like that he left out a lot of stuff from the comic because it would have just slowed it down, IMO. Alot of things work better in comics then actual novels, though.

[James Harvey]

I enjoyed the novel more than the comics. Thankfully, the comic left out all the crap in the middle and eveyrthing that Larry Hama did. Geeze...any Batman story he did turned to crap fast...

[JLU Dude]

No Man's Land is a very good story.

[joker]

ive read both the novel and the series and i liked the book much better. rucka is a great writer. it just goes to show how much different the comic continuum is from the btas.

*side note----every thing in the comics is considered to be "true" while movies, cartoons ect. are considered to be "fictional"

[The Mad Hatter]

Hm, going to have to pick up the novel, then...

[James Harvey]

The softcover was released not too long ago, Hatter. It is a great read which suprisingly took me no time at all. The book is about 400 pages long, but I just flew right through it. The story was just so engrossing.

[The Mad Hatter]

Alright, I'll pick it up! I saw it in hardcover, and was wondering how it was. Not that I could afford to pick it up anyway... that's part of why I'm only on the third Harry Potter book, since I can only afford softcover (and it's always gone from the library, besides).

400 pages? Cool... I was wondering how they'd cram all the events in there, but I'm glad they took their time.

By the way, who wrote the novel?

[Clayface]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter

By the way, who wrote the novel?

Greg Rucka.

[James Harvey]

Rucka currently writes DETECTIVE COMICS and he has done a heck of a job. His subtle mentions of the evnts of NML are a nice little nod to fans who've stuck through the epic.

[kid_flash]

NML is one of the best works of Batman out there, both in novel and in comic (just ignore all the extra crap that means nothing and the comics are awesome).

As for animated vs. comic, I gotta go comic. The animated version hasn't been through half (heck, even a QUARTER) of what the comic Batman's been through, especially in the ways of the Joker. That's what makes every Joker story so great. In the comics, Joker's killed Jason Todd, shot Barbara Gordon, severely tortured Jim Gordon, and killed Sarah Essen-Gordon. In the animated continuity, Joker's cool, but not nearly as deadly. And that's just ONE of Batman's villains. So, yeah, as long as you consider Batman to be a tortured soul, the comics show the real Batman.

[rkhalloran]

The book was done from the comics series, which ran across the various Bat-titles. It's all in comics continuity, which allows for Barbara's paralysis (The Killing Joke GN), Sara Gordon, the new Batgirl, and Tim's still having a father.

Bob Halloran
Jax FL

Originally posted by batE
'Sup, all:

I just finished reading Greg Rucka's book No Man's Land, and I'm a mite confused on a couple of points -- first, was the book adapted from a graphic novel or a limited series? Seems I've heard the title before. Second, is this an AU or ELSEWORLDS? I mean, in the book, Gordon is married to Sarah Essen, a cop he left his wife for (in BTAS, I nevr saw a Mrs. Gordon, so I just assumed the Commish was a widower or something. But I've never seen Sub Zero, so maybe Mrs. Gordon (Barbara's mother) makes an appearance there.) Second, Barbara Gordon is paralyzed -- I understand that this is how she became Oracle, but it was sort of suprising to me. Third, the appearance of Cassandra Cain was sort of disconcerting. WAS she an actual Batgirl in some of the Bat comic titles? Fourth, in BTAS, Two-Face was engaged to someone named Grace. In NML, he makes allusions to his former (it never says if they're divorced or if she's dead) wife Gilda. And though I know Detective Renee Montoya appeared in BTAS, in NML, she seems very much like a Mary Sue., but maybe that's just me. Also, NML mentions that Robin (Tim Drake) was celebrating the holidays with his father, but I thought his father (in TNBA) was killed, and that's how Tim was taken in by Bruce.

Has anyone read the book? It's pretty good. It's very good, actually. I was shocked at how many characters Rucka was able to fit into one book, and the parts with the Penguin were especially good.


batE

[batE]

Thanks, guys, for enlightening me.

I think it's so weird that the Bat comics and the show would be so divergent. Especially in the case of Tim Drake. I just finished reading Batman Animated (thanks to all who recommended it -- it's amazing!), and I see how much trouble Dini, Timm and the gang had with the censors, especially in the early parts of BTAS -- I find it difficult to understand why Tim Drake's dad could DIE in the cartoon, but be paralyzed (but alive) in the comic. If anything, knowing viewer sensibilitites, I would think it'd be the other way around -- especially since there's very little depiction of disabled people in cartoons. The only person I can think of -- and I'll admit, I don't watch a lot of 'toons anymore -- was the redheaded sarcastic guy Garrett in Extreme Ghostbusters.

Anyway, Rucka did a good job of shaping what I guess was a hge storyline into a readable novel. I'm kind of curious as to what he left out, because so much is put in - from the whole origins of NML, to the Two-Face-Montoya subplot, etc., etc. Every time a new character came in, I was thinking, "Oh geez . . . how many is he going to be able to fit in?" It probably seemed less "crowded" in the comics, though.


batE