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  1. #21
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    The Pokémon anime is so repetitive. The cycle is: Ash moves to a region and gets Pokémon, makes new friends, gets every badge, gets into the region's league but loses. (The only time he wins was in the Orange League and Battle Frontier, filler seasons). I don't really hate the anime but it's too repetitive.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggy View Post
    The Pokémon anime is so repetitive. The cycle is: Ash moves to a region and gets Pokémon, makes new friends, gets every badge, gets into the region's league but loses. (The only time he wins was in the Orange League and Battle Frontier, filler seasons). I don't really hate the anime but it's too repetitive.
    Most shows are repetitive in some aspects. Pokemon eventually added more things like the Pokemon Contests and the Other evil "teams". The enjoyment comes from the slight changes in characters and battles for each region.

    Some people watch sports on a regular basis, but for the most part they see the same thing for each match they watch. It depends on what one enjoys watching.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggy View Post
    The Pokémon anime is so repetitive. The cycle is: Ash moves to a region and gets Pokémon, makes new friends, gets every badge, gets into the region's league but loses. (The only time he wins was in the Orange League and Battle Frontier, filler seasons). I don't really hate the anime but it's too repetitive.
    The games themselves are repetitive too. Most of the games start out mostly the same with getting the starters, battling the rival, going through the Gyms, battling the evil team, defeating the evil team before the eighth badge, except for Team Plasma in B/W, and then beating the Elite 4. Each generation provides something new for players to experience in spite of that repetitive format. It's the same thing with the anime series, although perhaps to a lesser extent due to being less interactive than video games. Each series tends to provide some new kind of changes in the writing and the story so that it can grab more people's attention.

  4. #24
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    On the Youtube comment I posted, I normally wouldn't pay attention to YT comments, but the guy kinda-sorta at least sounded like he might know what he was talking about, and as I said I was kinda hoping it was true to some degree. I would have just responded to the YT post myself but YT comment system is awful and I figured it'd be easier to just get one of the knowledgeable folks here (whom I trust a lot more) to give context if there was any truth to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Light Lucario View Post
    The games themselves are repetitive too. Most of the games start out mostly the same with getting the starters, battling the rival, going through the Gyms, battling the evil team, defeating the evil team before the eighth badge, except for Team Plasma in B/W, and then beating the Elite 4. Each generation provides something new for players to experience in spite of that repetitive format. It's the same thing with the anime series, although perhaps to a lesser extent due to being less interactive than video games. Each series tends to provide some new kind of changes in the writing and the story so that it can grab more people's attention.
    I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I'm trying to think what the major changes were each gen of the anime:

    Johto: nothing really, the round-robin prelims for the Silver Conference were interesting but it was just two episodes
    AG: contests, and new/competent regional "Team Evil" plot involving some legendary
    DP: can't think of any significant difference from AG
    BW: no contests, no prelim in the league - just plain single-elim (so it actually regressed in both regards since its not like they substituted them with anything interesting, and how lucky that the league had EXACTLY 128 entrants, even with Cameron just barely registering at the last minute), new "evil"/competent TR but they just basically replaced the role of the regional evil team until Plasma came in Episode N (though it did mean we saw less of TR on a day-to-day basis)
    XY: racing, maybe (but probably not) a legitimate romantic subplot, other than that we're waiting to see

    The only thing on that list that really registered with me in a big way (assuming the romance turns out to be nothing) was the contests, and that's mainly because it actually gave the girl character something to do. Plus it was nice to see some kind of Pokemon competition that wasn't just straight battling.

    I really want to like XY, but like I said before I skimmed all 11 episodes (I did watch the dub premiere in full), and out of those 11 I counted 4 that didn't heavily revolve around battling/chasing TR or fixing some stupid problem caused by TR. Of those 4, 3 were gym related, and 1 was Serena's racing thing. That's not encouraging, as it's basically the exact same pattern the old series' had - when they're not in a gym/contest/tournament or doing something related to the regional Team Evil plot, they can't think of anything for the characters to do without TR providing some convenient (and usually really lame) problem to fix.

    At least Ash isn't battling like an amateur and losing to rookies with rookie Pokemon yet. That's a small consolation, but why does every time Pikachu loses a battle, it gets hurt bad enough that Ash has to rush it to the Pokemon center? At times recently it seems like Pikachu only exists as a plot device to get lost or hurt so Ash can worry, or run into some important place/character when trying to help it. It sure as heck doesn't seem like Ash's strongest Pokemon (which it should be at this point).

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    I'm not gonna make excuses for Black and White, but I really don't see why you'd continue to watch Pokemon if you are tired of the formula.

    If you aren't tired of the formula, then I guess you are part of the very problem you've just described. I will admit that I am part of the problem, but I don't watch every episode of Pokemon anymore. If there seems to be a series of interesting episodes I will watch and then stop again.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild View Post
    On the Youtube comment I posted, I normally wouldn't pay attention to YT comments, but the guy kinda-sorta at least sounded like he might know what he was talking about, and as I said I was kinda hoping it was true to some degree. I would have just responded to the YT post myself but YT comment system is awful and I figured it'd be easier to just get one of the knowledgeable folks here (whom I trust a lot more) to give context if there was any truth to it.
    He at least wasn't typing in a ridiculous matter like in all caps or lower case letters, but the lack of any source for his information should have been an immediate tip-off that it wasn't trustworthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild
    I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I'm trying to think what the major changes were each gen of the anime:

    Johto: nothing really, the round-robin prelims for the Silver Conference were interesting but it was just two episodes
    Ash's Johto Pokemon had more personality than most of the Pokemon he caught in Kanto, Ash actually had Gym battles instead of whatever passed for battles in Kanto, including no pity badges aside from maybe Pyrce, it was the first time they stretched out a single journey for a generation, they tried to do something with Misty's goal with the Whirl Cup, even though that was too little and too late for me, and it was the first time they had the trio splitting up at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild
    AG: contests, and new/competent regional "Team Evil" plot involving some legendary
    There were Contests, but that also meant that May would be more active in her goal, which was something quite new after Misty. Ash trained his Pokemon more often, they split up the starters among the three trainers of the group instead of giving them all to Ash, Ash didn't have a main rival, the female lead had rivals for the first time, Ash used only his Hoenn team at the Hoenn League, there were siblings in the main cast for the first time, there was a character without his own Pokemon for the first time, they used Team Magma/Team Aqua, although not that well in my opinion, this was the first series where they went back to a previous region with the Kanto Battle Frontier and Ash won the Battle Frontier, which I still think is one of his biggest accomplishments thus far.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild
    DP: can't think of any significant difference from AG
    This is a major sign to me that you aren't really that familiar with the show. Paul alone should have been a significant difference from AG for you. The rivalry with Paul was a key plot for the entire series. It affected not only Ash throughout their various battles due to their polar opposite attitudes and points of view, but it also lead up to the Chimchar subplot, which was the first time they handled the emotional affects of a Pokemon being abandoned well in my opinion. Even though she was also a Coordinator, she wasn't just May 2.0 at all. They had Dawn start out as a coordinator from the start, instead of discovering it like with May, she wanted to follow in her mother's footsteps, struggled with her journey at first, especially when she couldn't get pass the appeal round twice, trained even more than May did and actually got close to reaching her goal by ending up in the finales of the Sinnoh Grand Festival. Ash and Dawn's battle styles affected both of their training and progress throughout the series. The Gym battles were at their peak of quality, in my opinion at least, and Ash got to the Top 4 of the Sinnoh League. Team Galactic also had a much better handled subplot with each of their appearances building up to their defeat, which is more than I can say for Team Magma/Aqua.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild
    BW: no contests, no prelim in the league - just plain single-elim (so it actually regressed in both regards since its not like they substituted them with anything interesting, and how lucky that the league had EXACTLY 128 entrants, even with Cameron just barely registering at the last minute), new "evil"/competent TR but they just basically replaced the role of the regional evil team until Plasma came in Episode N (though it did mean we saw less of TR on a day-to-day basis)
    While I agree that they regressed in many areas, BW still provided changes to grab the audience's attention. Ash got the three starter Pokemon again, he got more than the usual five or six Pokemon he usually gets, they went back to having a female lead without an active sidequest, they had those mini-tournaments, everyone had a rival, the pacing was much faster, Team Rocket was more serious throughout most of the series, they had an entire arc based around Team Plasma instead of appearing throughout the series and ended the series with an arc that was primarily filler episodes instead of Ash accomplishing something significant like getting a rank in a League. There are problems with pretty much everything I mentioned, but they were still changes in the usual formula. I didn't say that all of the changes were good either. Some work, but some don't, even though it felt like BW had a lot more hits than misses.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild
    XY: racing, maybe (but probably not) a legitimate romantic subplot, other than that we're waiting to see
    I don't know how much racing will play a part of it since the last I heard, Serena is still deciding her goal in the Japanese version.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild
    The only thing on that list that really registered with me in a big way (assuming the romance turns out to be nothing) was the contests, and that's mainly because it actually gave the girl character something to do. Plus it was nice to see some kind of Pokemon competition that wasn't just straight battling.

    I really want to like XY, but like I said before I skimmed all 11 episodes (I did watch the dub premiere in full), and out of those 11 I counted 4 that didn't heavily revolve around battling/chasing TR or fixing some stupid problem caused by TR. Of those 4, 3 were gym related, and 1 was Serena's racing thing. That's not encouraging, as it's basically the exact same pattern the old series' had - when they're not in a gym/contest/tournament or doing something related to the regional Team Evil plot, they can't think of anything for the characters to do without TR providing some convenient (and usually really lame) problem to fix.

    At least Ash isn't battling like an amateur and losing to rookies with rookie Pokemon yet. That's a small consolation, but why does every time Pikachu loses a battle, it gets hurt bad enough that Ash has to rush it to the Pokemon center? At times recently it seems like Pikachu only exists as a plot device to get lost or hurt so Ash can worry, or run into some important place/character when trying to help it. It sure as heck doesn't seem like Ash's strongest Pokemon (which it should be at this point).
    I can't really speak for XY's episodes past the first two episodes, but I've heard a lot of praises for them, so even if they are in the usual formula, it sounds like it's doing it pretty well. I'm not quite sure why you're watching the show if it bothers you this much. As for Pikachu, it is strong, but it doesn't have the highest inderance either. There are times where Pikachu acts like a plot device as you mentioned, but it normally doesn't bother me too much.

  7. #27
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    So Team Rocket will be disguising themselves to fool Ash and steal the Pokemon. I think there's something you should all know: That's not going to change! Never has and never will! What are you going to do? Complain to the writers to make Ash see through TR's disguses?

    I know I've been talking about this before but I wish people would stop complaining about Ash falling for Team Rocket's disguises.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Lucario View Post
    This is a major sign to me that you aren't really that familiar with the show. Paul alone should have been a significant difference from AG for you. The rivalry with Paul was a key plot for the entire series. It affected not only Ash throughout their various battles due to their polar opposite attitudes and points of view, but it also lead up to the Chimchar subplot, which was the first time they handled the emotional affects of a Pokemon being abandoned well in my opinion. Even though she was also a Coordinator, she wasn't just May 2.0 at all. They had Dawn start out as a coordinator from the start, instead of discovering it like with May, she wanted to follow in her mother's footsteps, struggled with her journey at first, especially when she couldn't get pass the appeal round twice, trained even more than May did and actually got close to reaching her goal by ending up in the finales of the Sinnoh Grand Festival. Ash and Dawn's battle styles affected both of their training and progress throughout the series. The Gym battles were at their peak of quality, in my opinion at least, and Ash got to the Top 4 of the Sinnoh League. Team Galactic also had a much better handled subplot with each of their appearances building up to their defeat, which is more than I can say for Team Magma/Aqua.
    I mistyped there. I mean to say no major difference from AG OR the original series, by which I meant there wasn't really anything that hadn't been used in one of those. And yes I'm referring to Paul/Gary. Yes, Paul's personality is a bit different, more serious, and we see more of him as a trainer than we saw of Gary, but he still basically occupies the same role - to be the ruthless antagonist to Ash's "Pokemon are our friends" philosophy.

    And while you make several valid points about things like Ash not having all the starters, not using previous generation's Pokemon, Dawn's personality being somewhat different than May's, taking a somewhat different path than May's, more rivals in BW, I don't think any of those really stand out much to the outside observer. To someone who knows Pokemon from the beginning, yes, but most of that is slight variations to the same pattern. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing, after 15 years I kinda wish they'd shake the pattern up a little more. And for the record I have seen all the episodes up through B&W.

  9. #29
    Light Lucario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild View Post
    I mistyped there. I mean to say no major difference from AG OR the original series, by which I meant there wasn't really anything that hadn't been used in one of those. And yes I'm referring to Paul/Gary. Yes, Paul's personality is a bit different, more serious, and we see more of him as a trainer than we saw of Gary, but he still basically occupies the same role - to be the ruthless antagonist to Ash's "Pokemon are our friends" philosophy.
    Paul's personality is pretty different from Gary's. Paul was more cold and ruthless in his basic demeanor, while Gary was more of a cocky stuck-up jerk. They both were the main rivals, so they did have the same basic role, but they are significantly different in terms of both personalities and their role in their respective series. Gary barely appeared throughout the original series and whenever he did appear, it was usually to act cocky and get Ash upset. Paul appeared much more frequently, Ash getting upset at Paul resulted in more on-screen training, and the rivalry was one of the key plots for DP. The rivalry with Gary was no where near that important in the original series. There's also the fact that Ash and Paul became rivals because of their polar opposite views on Pokemon training, whereas the rivalry with Gary was primarily because Ash wanted to beat his childhood rival.

    Gary also wasn't really against Ash's philosophy about being friends with Pokemon. He wasn't as into it as Ash was, at least in the Kanto journey given his reaction when Ash mentioned that he probably isn't friends with all of the hundreds of Pokemon he had captured, but there wasn't really much to go with that he was against being friends with Pokemon. He still seemed to care about his Pokemon and that became clearer during his brief Johto appearances. He didn't really see or treat his Pokemon like tools, at least based on what we saw of his training back then. Gary's stick, primarily in Kanto at least, was more about acting as if he was the best trainer around because he's Gary Oak. He was just a character with a huge ego that could talk the talk, but never quite walk the walk in terms of his skills as a trainer. In Johto, he was less cocky, even thougha bit of that was still present in the Johto League, and he show a bit more friendship with the few Pokemon he appeared with too. Paul, on the other hand, was basically about getting stronger whatever way he wanted to, clearly not caring about his Pokemon for the majority of the series and not caring what anyone thought of him. Paul was clearly more against the Pokemon are our friends philosophy because he did treat them as tools. He would capture Pokemon only to release them if he thought that they were too weak and didn't care how that affected them at all. He put Chimchar under extreme training, was more than willing to keep using it in battle despite its injuries just so that it could control its Blaze ability and didn't care about the psychological scars it had as a result of their training. He did cruel and downright heartless things in his Pokemon training, particularly with Chimchar, which doesn't really put him as the same kind of character as Gary, despite both of them being the main rivals. Paul was not so much like Gary that he didn't offer anything new to the table. Aside from both being main rivals, I don't think that there is much, if any, similarities between the two characters.

    Just because two characters fill a similar role doesn't necessarily mean that they're the same or they aren't doing anything different with them. That just comes off as a generalization that ignores significant details. Paul was something different from Gary and acting as if he wasn't just because they were the main rivals doesn't really make sense. Gary never abandoned any of his Pokemon or used them more like tools. Charmander's original trainer did, but Paul was different from him as well. Not to mention Chimchar's storyline is basically what Charmander's should have been with actually dealing with being abandoned and the emotional/physical abuse it had under Paul. DP did have major differences from AG and the original series and acting otherwise just makes it seem like another generalization that ignore key details from all of those series.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedChild
    And while you make several valid points about things like Ash not having all the starters, not using previous generation's Pokemon, Dawn's personality being somewhat different than May's, taking a somewhat different path than May's, more rivals in BW, I don't think any of those really stand out much to the outside observer. To someone who knows Pokemon from the beginning, yes, but most of that is slight variations to the same pattern. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing, after 15 years I kinda wish they'd shake the pattern up a little more. And for the record I have seen all the episodes up through B&W.
    I'd still say that Dawn's personality was more than somewhat different from May's and her path was more than somewhat different too. Like with Paul and Gary, May and Dawn filled the same roles with having the same goals, but they were significantly different in how they were handled. While I prefer May, Dawn definitely had better writing around her goal and spending the whole series on her first Contest journey, as opposed to putting two Contest journeys like they did in AG, really helped. Not to mention Dawn actually had to deal with losing a few times and even questioned if she should compete in Contests again. I wouldn't say that most of them are a slight variations of the same pattern. Some of them like Ash not having all of the starters could, but getting a more active female lead character in both May and Dawn, Dawn's journey being handled differently and more rivals in BW wouldn't just be slight variations to the same pattern. Or at least I wouldn't consider them as such.

    I'm also not sure what would stand out much to an outside observer, especially if anything I mentioned wouldn't supposedly do the trick. Most outside observers would be amazed that Pokemon is still airing new episodes and/or that Ash is still the main character. There are major changes in each series. Each series does shake up the pattern up with new ideas, characters and concepts. Some work and some don't, but each series does changes things up. Perhaps not as much as you would like them too, but they do make significant changes. That's what I was trying to get across before. Each generations of games provide significant changes and new ideas and the same goes for the anime. If we're talking about changes that would stand out to people who haven't seen the series in years, although I don't know why we would when I was just talking about some of the changes and new ideas/concepts in each series in general, then I guess the only kind of change that would stand out to them would be to replace Ash, but we all know that isn't going to happen. If you really have seen all of the episodes through BW, then I'm even more surprised that you consider that DP doesn't offer anything different from the original series or AG, especially when I'd argue that the writing was at its best in DP, and that you don't consider Paul different from Gary.

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