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  1. #141
    Silverstar's Avatar
    Silverstar is offline Delightfully Dotty
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    I don't think a societal change of gender views is as far off as some may think. These changes have been happening off-screen for decades now, and the seeds of change have already been planted in the media, and albeit gradually, we are seeing the results. For anyone old enough to remember, in 1972 there was this TV special called Free to Be...You and Me, which aired on ABC, based on the album of the same name. The whole thing was a series of vignettes which addressed gender issues and the gradual changing of said issues. Two segments which stood out for me were "Ladies First", in which a girl whose insistence on always getting to "go first" simply because she is a girl ends up making her the chosen meal of hungry tigers, and "William's Doll", about a boy whose family is perplexed by his desire for a doll to care for. In the end, he gets one and everyone realizes that the world won't spin off its' axis if a boy owns a doll. And that was the early 70's.

    We're already starting to see some mixed couples and interracial families on TV, and some gender-neutral toys like Care Bears, which has always been aimed at boys and girls equally. A universal change in society's attitudes isn't going to happen overnight of course, but it will happen eventually, and when the face of society changes, the media and toy companies will have to follow suit if they want to continue making a profit. I had a thought: toy stores could possibly consider changing the labels of "boys' toys" and "girls' toys" to "hard toys" and "soft toys". By removing the gender labels, the stigma would be lessened, and a kid won't have to feel weird if he/she wants to buy toys from 'the other aisle'. Just a thought.
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  2. #142
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    Monte is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar Neo View Post
    Don't get me started on SheZow! That show isn't progressive in any, shape or form. If anything, SheZow is an indication of how messed up children's TV is right now; we still have no Wonder Woman TV show or movie, yet Hasbro has no problem green lighting a series about a boy who fights crime while dressed as a girl. The truly sad part is that SheZow is the closest we're going to get to a TV show about a super heroine these days.
    Well keep in mind that shezow was a show acquired by Hasbro, not one they made themselves. To acquire a female superhero series there would have to be one someone else had already made; and the hub did acquire Atomic Betty... Aside from anime shows which the hub does not seem to have an interest in, i have trouble thinking of many female superhero shows that are not owned by another network(which only furthar emphasizes the problems of western animation). If they can't find a superheroine show to acquire, then they would have to make it themselves and they are already producing 3 original shows aimed at girls. Hasbro already has littest pet shop, my little pony and they just started a new sabrina the teenage witch series; All current series aimed at girls that they are making new episodes for. Really, the Hub has a limit to how many shows they can make themselves and how many shows they can acquire... i mean they are still a small network, compared to CN, Disney and Nick. The hub would either need to get more funding, or needs to wait for one of those shows to come to an end before they can make their own original girl super hero show.

    Y'know if DC would allow it, i would not be surprised if they would be interested in SBFF
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  3. #143
    SaneMan is offline Senior Member
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    the reason why I brought-up SheZow in the first place was to point out how people (at least in America) are violently unwilling to accept a male protagonist who does not fit the standards of masculinity

    on the other hand, they seem to be perfectly ok with a masculine female protagonist

  4. #144
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    ChildHood90s is offline Loves his coffee
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    People just need to keep putting out shows with men that challenge the standards of masculinity. Society catches on, eventually. (Actually... I think the "Brony" phenomenon is already helping a lot in this regard).

    I'd just like to add this. IMO, the choice for boys to pick from the girl's aisle and vice-versa not *immediately* being there is the bigger issue. Parents with a number of kids pick more based off of necessity, I feel. It's not a "laziness" thing when a parent buys "pink princesses" for their little girl. That just feels like a "there was nothing else good to buy for her in the girl's aisle" situation was more to blame than simple "laziness" on the parent's behalf. Especially when the toy commercials are so black and white, my niece actually *spoke up* about how different (and same-y) the boy's commercials always were. Makes me sad that those commercials potentially instill such strong "gender norms" in kids at such young ages.

  5. #145
    SaneMan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildHood90s View Post
    Actually... I think the "Brony" phenomenon is already helping a lot in this regard.
    only that it's being met with overwhelming hatred, surprisingly mostly from the nerd communities
    (and from the Republicans, but that is to be expected)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChildHood90s View Post
    Makes me sad that those commercials potentially instill such strong "gender norms" in kids at such young ages.
    to be fair, when you advertise an action figure, you advertise it as an action figure

  6. #146
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    I don't think a brony crowd would help in regard. CN targets kids 6-14. The majority of the brony crowd is above that age and are generally old enough to appreciate it's animation and writing style. Young boys in that that crowd would ask why would they buy MLP toys. Especially when they have to compete with other boy targeted franchises out there[Like Ben 10 or TMNT]. There may still be boys that watch the show or even like the show as they would any show on that network, but for a toy to play with and show off to their friends, that's when things get difficult.

    I don't think gender norms are generally going to go away. Most kids want to play and talk with other kids like they are, who like the same things they do. Most parents are going to expose their children to objects children their gender would like.

    The general-neutral issue is going to take some innovation to get around. Childhood90s pointed out that the commercials are different. Changing advertising schemes could help out. They could definitely find ways to make action toys more attractive to girls and girl toys to boys. Ex: Doll boxes don't have to be so pink and stereotypically female. Rearranging schemes could make male dolls and female action figures that sell. Some franchises like toy dogs and Littlest Pet shop type things could definitely sell stuff to boys without so much overwhelming pink packaging.

  7. #147
    Robot_Jones's Avatar
    Robot_Jones is offline My name is EGGSPITCH
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    Wow.That's stupid.

  8. #148
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    firefoxprime is offline 90s = Golden Years
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaneMan View Post
    the reason why I brought-up SheZow in the first place was to point out how people (at least in America) are violently unwilling to accept a male protagonist who does not fit the standards of masculinity

    on the other hand, they seem to be perfectly ok with a masculine female protagonist
    Good point. I dunno dude....a boy crossdressing into a girl superhero? Ehhhh.....

    But I play fairball. So I'll bring up CyberSix. A (1999?) Canadian/french action series about this fighter chick, but she cross-dresses as a man to hide her identity. Falls in love this (reporter?), but she's conflicted cuz she pretends to be a guy with glasses. Good show, but I see what you're sayin. I personally feel a "lil" uncomforable both ways, but more so with a guy crossdressing. Probably cuz I'm dude *shrugs*

    Violently? YMMV. I like balance, so a show like Kim Possible was a solid example for me. She was assertive, took care of busy in a go-to fashion, and still maintained her feminity. Got friends like KP.

    Quote Originally Posted by SaneMan View Post

    only that it's being met with overwhelming hatred, surprisingly mostly from the nerd communities
    (and from the Republicans, but that is to be expected)
    Yo man....when I found out my best friend was a brony, I was like "wuuuhhhh???" Hmm. I don't think he's lame, but he falls into the nerd stereotype so whatevs.
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  9. #149
    Goldstar Neo's Avatar
    Goldstar Neo is offline I like the streaks
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefoxprime View Post
    Mmmm....to call someone a "paranoid nut job" because their opinions, however much a stark contrast from yours, feels like your ushering in your own agenda. How's I see's it. That's justification but the arguement's a lil weak, so gotta bring down the other dude.
    Wow. Way to twist my words. You completely missed the point hat I was trying to make. Congratulations.

    To downplay a controversial subject to "just a silly cartoon" also feels like you're really tryin to wedge in your views. You can disagree with someone without degrading their intelligience.
    First, it wasn't a controversial subject. This person who wrote the article only believed that it was. The controversy of SheZow only existed in this person's head. There's actually nothing controversial about the show at all, and shortly after the show premiered, everyone saw that there was nothing there that was worth making a fuss about. And the reason why I typed that SheZow is "just a silly cartoon" is because SheZow's creator Obie Scott Wade said in an interview that he had no kind of agenda in mind when he created the show; he only wanted to make a comedy. Mr. Wade had no goal in mind for SheZow! other than to entertain. SheZow is a silly cartoon by it's creator's own admission and design. Hence, it's just a silly cartoon. Nothing more.

    Second, what appears to be happening here is that you're so busy defending the right that you're not actually listening to what I was saying. You merely interpreted what you read as "your side" being attacked and then felt the need to represent. Stop trying to make this into a political discussion, because it isn't.

    I don't care to much about the political aspect, but I'm aware that "silly cartoons" of past, are cemented with oodles of controversial stuff. However popular said shows are, can infact influence the mind of a child, or adult. The studies are there. Do I have'em? Nope. Yet I believe there's gotta but tons of research regarding this.

    I'm leaning more to the christian aspect, so that's where I pull my stance from. On God's solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. So...my stance doesn't fluncuate with time like the societal views of gender roles.
    This isn't a religious discussion either. You're entitled to your beliefs, and I respect that, but it's irrelevant to the topic of this thread.
    Last edited by Goldstar Neo; 12-30-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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  10. #150
    firefoxprime's Avatar
    firefoxprime is offline 90s = Golden Years
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    @Goldstar Neo:

    Ya really think I was twisting your words? Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. You basically called the dude crazy and then properly explained why you disagreed with his decisions. I read what you said, copied what you said, and stated my opinion based on the whole of what you stated. As you disagreed with his actions pertaining the show, I disagreed with you calling him names. I think that's a fair assessment.

    If how I'm perceiving the discussion is wrong dude, then I apologize.

    -sighs- I know we're not in the target demo anymore, but I'm thinking the grown 80s kids had it easier than "us" grownier hehe 90s kids. 80s had action shows and so did the 90s. The gender sloting was still rampant, but I think those guys had it good watching our decade of shows. Well....besides Transformers G1 vs Beast Wars, but you get the picture. So even though time past, they still watched their half hour toy commercial goodies :P but now....
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