Human clones...the hot new toy this holiday season?

[I.R Joey]

They're talking about cloning humans by this fall, and I for one am frightened.

Have any of you read the Time Machine by Well's, this is what I fear. The rich would be able to pay for their children to be genetically enhanced, IE greater mental capacity, enhansed athletic ability etc. While the poor do not have these options and are forced to compete on a completly natural level. I mean who knows what would be the result? Or how about this scenario a child is cloned from the DNA of Adolf hitler. He goes about his life like a normal child, but people really do hate him...like honestly wish that every atom of his body was killed. He wouldn't understand it and would live in isolation, with nobody loving him, and being treated with disdain for things he never did. How would the parent explain this to his/her child when they ask how come everyone hates them?

I believe that we are trying to play God without the wisdom, or judgement of the creator. The idea of Eugenics scare me. I mean the racists, and the narscist are going to love this.Considering the relative immature nature of our early 20th century world (we want our way and we want it now) it is like giving a gun to a child. How can we afford to weild what is perhaps one natures most powerful forces, when we are not even at peace with outrselves when we're still killing eachother over stupid things like skin color, beliefs, and money?

[Nightwing]

I don't want to be "afraid of technology and the exploration of it," as advocates of the human clone thing say everyone else is. But I'm still against the human cloning thing. My reason is, I just don't see a valid reason to do it. I got nothing!

If you wanna clone animals, fine. But this human thing is going the distance a bit too quickly if you ask me. Simma down nah scientists! Simma down nah!!

Clone humans so you can have a body bank in case you need an organ or limb? Well yeah that's a good thought, but how would you go about doing that? You'd have to make the clone around when the original baby was born so they can be around the same age and even if you did that, who's gonna tell clone boy he's just a "spare"?

I want scientists to expand their knowledge so they can learn more about us and everything (because there's too much we don't know, and knowledge is beneficial) but it almost feels like the only motivations on human clones is crap like fame, money, recognition. Ya know, crap like that.

[James Harvey]

The furthest they should go is human organs, and only for emergencies. If a 2 year old kid is in liver failure and needs a replacement asap, then I think that is where human cloning can be useful. But whole people cloned? No, no, no.

[Trent Lane]

Even for purposes of organ transplants, I'm not too sure. The way my beliefs are, I think they should just leave it all alone. Like mentioned before, doing this is like trying to play God, and NO one needs to do that, unless it's the big guy Himself...

[Psycho Fox]

My fears is the military applications of genetics. This will make germ warfare easier and that is nothing compared to test tube soliders. Think about it they can have custom made soliders. Or use it to program animals I.E a Bear programed to be aggressive give it human gens so it knows how to hold and fire a gun and understand orders... this would be a super gorilla fighter due to power & size plus supprize the enemy won't waste bullets on animials till they realize they attack them.

This techonology has more applications for evil then good.

[Jowy Blight]

I don't think its for humans to play God. Do we really need clones? What if a group of terorists used the cloning to make super enhansed verison's of themselfs and made an army. Who know what cloning could do to the clone itself. They could go crazy after an amount of time. Who knows what the military could do with this.

A lot of other things a possible too. We have no reason to clone, so I don't think we should.

[DR. BELCH]

You know, the sheep they cloned in Scotland is showing signs of aging. It seems the cells, which were taken from an adult sheep, are deteriorating, and the poor dear suffers from arthritis in her knees. Imagine that happening to human clones, withering from young men and women to old geezers in a matter of weeks or months!

If you go to bed with your clone, is is gay love, incest, or autoerotiscism?

If your clone is "born" as an adult, presumably it wouldn't have a navel...so there'd be some way to tell the original and copy apart. Really, two ways, unless one's mother was a rabid anti-circ....

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Yes, the biggest problems I see with it is the "altered" albility of a clone. With added strengh and intelligence, we natural humans who made the clone on the first place may have competition. But how would the clone feel about being a clone? With hieghted albilities could he go and try to get vengance? Are we sure we can treat clones equally? What if we confuse a good person/bad clone, bad clone/good person and punish the wrong one?

....some questions there could sound trivial, but I think they are points to review as well. I do not think humanity should do this; we can only raise problems from it.

[The Mad Hatter]

Beyond the whole "is the very idea of cloning humans good or not," lies another issue touched on by a few posters: we haven't perfected cloning yet. To get Dolly, researchers had to try and fail over 500 times, all the while producing dead animals or animals with horrible deformities. The process has improved a lot since then--I think the latest techniques manage to avoid premature aging--but it still takes scores of tries to get one viable animal. And considering that they're going to birth the kids throug the womb... that's a lot of women who get to go through the heartbreak of the "failures."

So even if one doesn't mind human cloning (it gives me the creeps, actually), it's still far too early in the technology to try it. These scientists just seem to be gloryhogs who want to say they were the first to clone a person.

Though it wouldn't surprise me if other groups of scientists were already trying it. We didn't know about Dolly till she was trotted out for us...

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
So even if one doesn't mind human cloning (it gives me the creeps, actually), it's still far too early in the technology to try it. These scientists just seem to be gloryhogs who want to say they were the first to clone a person.

Excellent point. Regardless of whether cloning, once perfected, is acceptable, this rush to do it regardless of the suffering it produces in the failed clones is horrifying.

Though, in a way, I'm glad that these scientists are at least being public about it. As Hatter also notes, there may be many others working secretly, and perfectly willing to do inhuman things to the "failed clones" in an attempt to keep that research secret.

Sigh. Just another sphere in which man can barbaric while pretending to be altruistic. The spirit of Mengele lives. . .

[DR. BELCH]

--it'd be something equally as Frankenstein-esque...like brain transplants. Imagine how complicated that would get...old people cheating death by splicing their brains into young corpses...or criminals changing their identity by assuming not just a new name, but an entirely new body. Would double jeopardy laws apply in court? Could a "transcorpused" person be executed for a crime, if their body is technically innocent? Imagine seeing a deceased loved one on a street corner and having to restrain oneself from running over to greet him/her. Not to mention it would make sex-change operations very interesting..."No, no, the body was always a woman. But my brain used to be in a man." That's sick on a whole new level!

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

....I fear for humanity, because if we do the get-go with cloning, this would certainly be the end result of what you people siad; humans have the luck to have the worst happen to them. It'd be interesting to see what new laws they put in-and as for brain transplants, I'd hate to see a room where they keep brains waiting for a body.

The scientists may be making it public only so the masses cannot get angry or confused about the thing, but my sense tells me it's more angry. I wonder what they may REALLY be doing as they show us just a sheep...

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by BorgeoisBuffoon
. I wonder what they may REALLY be doing as they show us just a sheep...

My favorite contemporary comment on Dolly was by the great political cartoonist Pat Oliphant. He showed one of the scientists (who really is Scottish) in a lab surrounding by sheep. In the doorway, glowering, is another (kilted) scientist: "Mactavish!" he says. "I hope ye have a highly MORAL explanation for what yer doon' with all these SHEEP!"

[I.R Joey]

Think about the clones themselves how would it feel to be created for the sole purpouse of having your organs removed? I mean the clone has no say in the matter.

[Jowy Blight]

Think about the clones themselves how would it feel to be created for the sole purpouse of having your organs removed? I mean the clone has no say in the matter.

I think that right there would give the clone a reason to go insane or something like that. I know that if I were a clone and knew that, I would do anything to keep it from happening.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
Think about the clones themselves how would it feel to be created for the sole purpouse of having your organs removed? I mean the clone has no say in the matter.

Well, this depends upon the legal status accorded to them. If the law says you can make a clone for such purposes, then this would be awful. If the law says that clones have all the same rights and priveleges as non-clones, then this isn't an issue.

More insidious is the idea of making a clone to replace a dead child. Can you imagine being told that you are not an original, but a copy meant to replace someone else who died?

Another creepy thought: Cloning to replace a dead lover. Sci-fi stories about hi-speed regeneration to the contrary, to make a clone is not to make a Xerox of someone at a particular stage in life; take cells from a 20 year old and it will take 20 years for the clone to achieve the same stage (barring accidents). So imagine some rich kid (say, 25 or thereabouts) who loses his/her significant other, and decides to clone the lover. Raises the clone from childhood on with the intention of turning him/her into a new version of the old lover: Years spent shaping, molding and obsessing over the clone, which is young enough to be his/her son or daughter. . . .

There's a theme for your next story, Dr. Belch: "Vertigo" reimagined by Heinlein.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by DR. BELCH
--it'd be something equally as Frankenstein-esque...like brain transplants. Imagine how complicated that would get...old people cheating death by splicing their brains into young corpses...or criminals changing their identity by assuming not just a new name, but an entirely new body. Would double jeopardy laws apply in court? Could a "transcorpused" person be executed for a crime, if their body is technically innocent? Imagine seeing a deceased loved one on a street corner and having to restrain oneself from running over to greet him/her. Not to mention it would make sex-change operations very interesting..."No, no, the body was always a woman. But my brain used to be in a man." That's sick on a whole new level!

Think what would happen if if someone seriously damaged their body and they would have a clone with no mind and they simply ploped the brain into the clone... now think what would happen if they messed up say put a the brain in the wrong clone by mistake. Think of the confusion.

Doctor:Opps uhhh we accidentally put you in a womans body see there was a ketchup stain next to male on the sheet and I though there was a fe under it, my bad. I can give you a free sex change.

Think what would happen if you got transplanted when you didn't even want it

Doctor:Uhhh see there was a mustered stain next to plant and I thought it was transplant when it was really implant oh and there was a sause stain on the fe part in female so uhhh we accidentally put you in a mans body... my bad.

[Fish]

Has anyone seen the anime about this boy who wants a mechanical body and tries to get on this space-train to another planet where all people have new mechanic bodies.
In danish it's called "Space Express"
Only the rich people can afford the new better bodies and the poor normal people are slaves.
It's badly drawn and poorly translated, but the show is great! I only wish I knew what it's called in japanese and be able to see the JAP version

All this cloning talk reminds me of the series..



<>< F I S H ><>

[JustJack]

y'know, I once wrote a story called "Clone", about a man who is..basically..the clone. The story starts with the first, who is a genetically enhanced human who does the "Dirty work". But when he gets blown up or something, the last thing he "remembered" get loaded into his new clone...a.k.a: The "next hero". And so the story went. He was a good guy, but he mainly chased down renegade clones, evil ones who couldn't stand being the "stand by body".

That's sort of how I feel about cloning. I understand why cloning might be necessary..or at least, why they'de want to do it. But I have studied psychology, and my main problem is that a child born, knowing he's a clone, would probobly have some major attitude problems. A test-tube-baby. Scary thought to think that's all you are. something mixed up in a blender...

I can also understand how this could cause genetic enhancements in people. If we can perfect making a clone of someone, with a genetically enhanced form, then why not just cut out the middle man? Take the DNA straight from the parents, & make yer super-man. This is how all those "apocolypse" movies start. A "New" human race conquoring us.

If any of you watch Power Rangers: Time Force, I'd say that show is a great example. In the future, Babies are simply genetically perfected beings. But something went wrong with one, causing terrible deformalities. This future filled with every living person having perfect DNA, then you throw a mutated man, the world rejects this poor guy, he sets out to go back in time & destroy the world that rejected him, before it ever happens!
And yes, this years Power Rangers series actually IS that complex. I'd highly recomend watching it.

anyway..I don't see the point for cloning people. As for a Post-Apocolyptic future where evil, twisted clones control the world..I'd say...go for it!

[batboy2001]

Like Dr. Belch said (I think) it seems Dolly the sheep is not doing to well, and it also seems that clones get sick a lot more fast than the first one thing that got cloned. While messing with genetics, they could uleash a virus were there would be no cure for.