Please explain this to me.

[Fish]

*throws up and shows it to the TZ'ers and WF'ers in here*


http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5012/5012_01.asp

I'm sorry about that, but this is to me unbelievable! I realize that there are many Christians in here and I respect your beliefs, but this is...I don't even have words for it...

How can anyone read this and how can anyone wanna write or illustrate such stories? I don't get it. It's like ppl need to be assured that their religion is right and it's them VS the world ( non believers). (--This counts for all mayor religions so I am not picking on any specific religion here so don't flame me)
To me it's brainwashing. I mean...is it so hard to be a believer that you need this kinda...propaganda? Reminds me of Nazi comics that were/are in Germany. ( again I want to say that I've seen this kinda stuff for Muslims and whatever religions out there - so DO NOT FLAME PLZ)

I'd like to hear what ppl have to say about this. I'm curious -that's all


<>< F I S H ><>

[Lucky Bob]

Fish, it's not brainwashing. Demonic spirits are very real in this world, a friend of mine actually went through something of the same ordeal. And no, we are not out against the world, ready to plunder, strike down, and hurt anyone in our way. All we're trying to do is to share a good message to the world, is that so bad?

And yes, the Harry Potter books are a pretty bad influence. But to me, it just shows that people are grasping for something, anything, that would give them "power." Let me ask you, have you noticed a rise in referrences to Wiccans and other occultic activity lately? (On the web, and in everyday life?) A kid could probably watch the Harry Potter movie, and think "Wow! Man, I wish I had that kind of power!" And then they pursue such a thing. It might start out "innocent" enough, with horoscopes, and such. However, I have actually talked with a man who was DEEPLY into the occult before becoming a Christian. He started out the same way that I just mentioned. He claimed to be able to do things that would make half this board shudder, I'm sure. And yet, he later said, "I thought I had power, but I was actually a puppet."

Those are my opinions on this issue. I'm sure some others would agree with me.

[Fish]

To me it only seems like those people must be very weak to fall for such nonsense, And why the haryy potter books? what about LOTR? Gandalf is a wizard.
why can't ppl just acccept that there is a real world and fantasy?
Parents should't tell their kids that " this book is evil " I think they should tell their kids " look - Here is a book about bla bla bla and it's all make-believe"

Just like my mom told me when I was a kid that the blood I saw on TV wasn't real blood but ketchup

*rolls eyes at mom but I still love her *

...umm I was gonna say something but then I started laughing and I forgot... I'll post it later when I think of it again

<>< F I S H ><>

[Lucky Bob]

Originally posted by Fish
To me it only seems like those people must be very weak to fall for such nonsense, And why the haryy potter books? what about LOTR? Gandalf is a wizard.

Stop the tape. I don't like "Lord of the Rings" for that very reason. Many Christians try to make it seem Christian, but most of the ones I've talked to said that there are little or no Christian analogies in the books.

why can't ppl just acccept that there is a real world and fantasy?
Parents should't tell their kids that " this book is evil " I think they should tell their kids " look - Here is a book about bla bla bla and it's all make-believe"

Because it's not "just make-believe." Like I've said, I've talked to people who have been into the occult and such. From what they've said, it's not make-believe, it's real! There is a demonic influence in this world, ask any occultic believer!

[Fish]

but as a christian you don't believe in occult things so they arent there, am I right?

"I thought I had power, but I was actually a puppet."

so none of that was real but he thought he had power - which he didn't...so the demons he might have seen weren't really there but only in his fragile little mind.

so that will be: there are no demons...



plus - why does every thing have to be christian - what a boring world it would be if everything was that way....( although you'd prolly say what bliss it would be )

I just can't see any reason for looking inrto every little thing in a story to find jesus in it. Just read and enjoy and be happy. They are great books and I don't see no reason for cursing them...

<>< F I S H ><>

[Lucky Bob]

but as a christian you don't believe in occult things so they arent there, am I right?

No, who told you that?

"I thought I had power, but I was actually a puppet."

so none of that was real but he thought he had power - which he didn't...so the demons he might have seen weren't really there but only in his fragile little mind.

He meant that he was only a puppet of Satan. And the guy did not have a fragile mind. He was a smart guy, just twisted, at one time.

plus - why does every thing have to be christian - what a boring world it would be if everything was that way....( although you'd prolly say what bliss it would be )

I just can't see any reason for looking inrto every little thing in a story to find jesus in it. Just read and enjoy and be happy. They are great books and I don't see no reason for cursing them...

Wrong. They present witchcraft as a harmless trade. However, it's not like that at all. I've seen lives brought to the brink of ruin because of it.

[Fish]

I can understand your concern about getting into dark stuff and worshipping stuff like things that make you do evil things towards other people, but again I must state that people should know better and parents should teach their kids that there is a difference between reality and fantasy. Harry Potter is not evil IMO. He doesn't use his powers evil, he's a good kid.

What I was gonna say, that I forgot at the time, was that I thought the comic was absolutly tasteless and utterly cheesy...
It made be laugh and had no impact on me whatsoever other than laughs

<>< F I S H ><>

[joshualane]

More than 100 million copies of Harry Potter books have been sold worldwide, in 42 different languages. Just over 49 million copies have been sold in the U.S. alone.

The first Harry Potter movie made $958.2 million worldwide...there will be a movie for each subsequent book in the Harry Potter collection which, all told, could eventually generate over $5 billion at the box office.

Just some facts I thought I would pass along and I personally find the comic to be rather hilarious because I obviously know better than to believe or even pay attention to such nonsense. I'm not religious whatsoever and don't care one way or another about what other people believe, it's your life, but I find it sad that a religion results to fear-based tactics to get it's message across. From reading that comic, I couldn't find one positive message whatsoever in it...why is that?

[Lucky Bob]

Originally posted by Fish
I can understand your concern about getting into dark stuff and worshipping stuff like things that make you do evil things towards other people, but again I must state that people should know better and parents should teach their kids that there is a difference between reality and fantasy. Harry Potter is not evil IMO. He doesn't use his powers evil, he's a good kid.

Of course? What was ever accomplished by introducing something to someone that is bad for them by making it look bad? Candy is in bright colors and tastes good, but to much can cause health problems. Yet do they put a big sticker on candy that says: "Don't eat this, kid, unless you wanna die?" I don't think so. Looks can be decieving.

What I was gonna say, that I forgot at the time, was that I thought the comic was absolutly tasteless and utterly cheesy...
It made be laugh and had no impact on me whatsoever other than laughs

<>< F I S H ><> [/B]

Because it wasn't meant for you to read it, it was meant to be for people with a similar problem, that's all. If you don't like it, don't read it!

[Calico]

Originally posted by luckybob1985


And yes, the Harry Potter books are a pretty bad influence. But to me, it just shows that people are grasping for something, anything, that would give them "power." Let me ask you, have you noticed a rise in referrences to Wiccans and other occultic activity lately? (On the web, and in everyday life?) A kid could probably watch the Harry Potter movie, and think "Wow! Man, I wish I had that kind of power!" And then they pursue such a thing. It might start out "innocent" enough, with horoscopes, and such. However, I have actually talked with a man who was DEEPLY into the occult before becoming a Christian. He started out the same way that I just mentioned. He claimed to be able to do things that would make half this board shudder, I'm sure. And yet, he later said, "I thought I had power, but I was actually a puppet."

Those are my opinions on this issue. I'm sure some others would agree with me.

Apples and oranges. For your information Wiccan is an actual religion that reveres and celebrates the power of nature. It is not occult, it is not 'satanism'. The image of witches and wizards as portrayed in literature, movies, and TV does not give a true picture of the religion.

[Lucky Bob]

Originally posted by Calico


Apples and oranges. For your information Wiccan is an actual religion that reveres and celebrates the power of nature. It is not occult, it is not 'satanism'. The image of witches and wizards as portrayed in literature, movies, and TV does not give a true picture of the religion.

And you would know this because.....?

[ButteredToast]

Hmm... religious debate...

*turns around and quietly backs out before saying a single word...*

[joshualane]

Originally posted by luckybob1985


And you would know this because.....?

Probably because it's true. The actual Wiccan religion is, like Calico mentioned, based more on the elements of nature, Earth, Air, Fire and Water. And to be a Witch is to be a healer, a teacher, a seeker, a giver, and a protector of all things...not someone who casts spells and summons evil spirits.

You can read more here:
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca.htm

Check out the The Wiccan Law here (you'll find that it's quite positive and doesn't say anything about worshipping Satan):
http://www.expage.com/lawsandrede

Note...no, I am not a member of this religion, just well-informed.

[Lucky Bob]

Originally posted by joshualane


Probably because it's true. The actual Wiccan religion is, like Calico mentioned, based more on the elements of nature, Earth, Air, Fire and Water. And to be a Witch is to be a healer, a teacher, a seeker, a giver, and a protector of all things...not someone who casts spells and summons evil spirits.

You can read more here:
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/wicca/wicca.htm

Check out the The Wiccan Law here (you'll find that it's quite positive and doesn't say anything about worshipping Satan):
http://www.expage.com/lawsandrede

Note...no, I am not a member of this religion, just well-informed.

Well, it's just not been my experience. And people do tend to break the rules....

[Bird Boy]

I actually laughed at that part where Harry Potter was mentioned...for one:

1)all the stuff in the previous panels had jack squat to do with what's in the Harry Potter books

and basically, that's it....lol

-BB

[Bleu Unicorn]

Originally posted by Calico
Apples and oranges. For your information Wiccan is an actual religion that reveres and celebrates the power of nature. It is not occult, it is not 'satanism'. The image of witches and wizards as portrayed in literature, movies, and TV does not give a true picture of the religion.

Thank you, Calico, that is a wonderful explaniation of Wicca.

Originally posted by joshualane
Probably because it's true. The actual Wiccan religion is, like Calico mentioned, based more on the elements of nature, Earth, Air, Fire and Water. And to be a Witch is to be a healer, a teacher, a seeker, a giver, and a protector of all things...not someone who casts spells and summons evil spirits.

Note...no, I am not a member of this religion, just well-informed.

Wicca is a very interesting religion, but unfortunately is extremely misunderstood. I've been one for years... and I'm glad that there are people who aren't Wiccan that actually understand it. I commend you joshualane!

Just as an aside, not to bash anyone or any religion. But I'm all for only talking about things that you understand. You can end up saying and/or doing things that you'll later regret. It's an afront to anyone -- and being on the receiving end is not fun.

Which brings me to the "breaking the rules" thing. Wiccans believe that whatever you do is handed you threefold. If you do something good for another, you'll have threefold that handed to you. And the reverse is true. It's one of the core beliefs of Wicca... and one that I wish more people believed in -- it's very akin to the Golden Rule.

-- Uni

[Calico]

Originally posted by luckybob1985


And you would know this because.....?

Because I have done actual research into the subject. While I am not a practicing Wiccan I do agree with and live by the basic tenets as pointed out quite succinctly by Josualane and Bleu Unicorn.

Well, it's just not been my experience. And people do tend to break the rules....

Hmmm, not unlike some Catholic priests who can't keep their hands to themselves. (Note: I am not bashing Catholics, just the idea that only non-christians 'break the rules'.)

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by luckybob1985


Well, it's just not been my experience. And people do tend to break the rules....

True, but is it fair to criticize all Wiccans because of that? Some doctors are guilty of malpractice, but I think that most people agree that it is unreasonable to hold that against the entire medical profession.

Chick comics are naturally preachy (or else they would have no point) and support extreme positions, so generally very few people agree with them. Most people who don't agree with them just find them funny. Chick's gotten most of its reputation on the internet as the sort of thing that people just point at and laugh.

[Zechs]

That is pretty crappy( the comic). If you belive in God than you know that loves all and wants to help us becomc good and right. That comic is the worst thing I've ever seen. People should know not to follow something that they read and if they do they are pretty weak. I read Angel Scantuary and it dosen't make like God any less or make me want to do evil things it's a story and that's all. I also happen to watch charmed it's a good show and that's all it is a show. If let some thing make you "evil" then your pretty weak . And I'm not talking about wicca I mean the people who do bad things in the name of any religon. What about the KKK they use cristany as there base so that does that make it evil no. In the end it's all up to the indavidual and how they see things. I beleive in god and that comic is a horrid misinterpation of the religon.

[Barb Gordon]

Okay, that comic was about the biggest load of crap I have ever seen. It was tasteless and just so completely wrong in reference to everything. I'm a very devout Catholic, have been all my life, and this comic is just plain sick. It pins on the Harry Potter books what all those religious nuts keep babbling about. That it influences kids to want to do witchcraft. I'm a huge fan of the Harry Potter books, and I'm religious,so? The only people those books affect are people who are already pretty sick in the head, or are trying to find random hidden meanings in just about anything, they're grasping for straws. And it totally misrepresents wiccans. I have a great respect for any religion, or for people who choose not to believe in something. I'm quite intrigued about the wiccan practices. Do I find them evil? No. Are they? No. There may be people who are bad or sick who practice them, and abuse what they know, they are sick and wrong, but the wiccan practices are not. And frankly, the catholic and christian religions have done their fare share of screwing up, a lot more than other religions. I'd have to agree that if you don't agree with that comic, don't read it or think about it. It's just a bunch of stupid nonsense, that's only going to upset people, like it has already done. It's by sick people, to be read by other sick people.

~Barb