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  1. #561
    wonderfly's Avatar
    wonderfly is offline In the not too distant future
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins
    Well, this is interesting. Looks like Obama is the first president since the Great Depression to oversee a significant decrease in illegal Mexican immigration. Of course the Great Recession was a big part of that, but there have been more overall deportations as well, and a greater focus on deporting criminals.

    http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/2...-perhaps-less/

    Now, it's arguable how much Obama had to do with this, and some of have accused the administration of "cooking the books" by counting people apprehended , briefly held in the US, and kicked out right after a border crossing as a deportation. But the simple fact that this problem is decreasing really takes one of the Republicans' favorite foam at the mouth points off the table. Where will they be without "They took our jerbs?" And how will Lou Dobbs continue to justify his existence?
    Yeah, what I heard (from the brief news clip on the radio) was that the number of illegal immigrants moving to the U.S. has dropped to equal the number of illegal immigrants leaving the U.S....so that's new.

    But Republicans can still rally around it because this still doesn't solve the problem. And no, I'm not going to go full blown into discussing illegal immigration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephane Dumas
    Maybe it's far-fetched taught but I think then Paul might be like a farmer or a gardener planting some seeds who'll grow over the days or like someone paving the way for his successor.
    An excellent point: Ron Paul's age makes it more likely that it'll be up to a successor to carry on his movement. So unless there IS a strong (and young) successor, Paul may be starting a movement, but in 10 years where will they be? Look at Ross Perot before him: Perot in 1992 ended up creating the Reform Party, by 2002, their platform was pretty much dead. The strongest candidate to ever come out of the Reform Party was Jesse Ventura being Governor of Minnesota. You'll notice the party collapsed shortly after that.

    Even if Ron Paul's segment doesn't split off from the Republicans into it's own party, if they're trying to start a faction akin to the Tea Party faction of the Republican party, I think in a few years, they will barely be a blip on the radar (more akin to the Log Cabin Republicans, than to the Tea Party).

  2. #562
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    GWOtaku is offline Moderator
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    So there is now much ado about an Obama campaign web video marking the 1 year anniversary of the operation that managed to bring down Osama Bin Laden (The Hill reports here, if you need a primer). Two things about it have drawn considerable attention: positive comments about the decision from President Clinton and the fact that it questions whether Romney would have made the same call.

    As a communication tactic, the video is already successful. The thing with web videos is that they cost nothing to make and are effective not because there are tons of people are scouring the internet for this stuff, but because media will reliably report on one and thereby spread the message around if it has the right hook. This ad included an attack on Romney, got noticed, and then Romney's people responded because you kind of have to. And however it goes people get reminded that we got Osama a year ago; the controversy taking place after the fact is secondary.

    That said, let there be no doubt, that attack was pure hackish politics. In my opinion it also won't actually do much good in the long run, as just about everybody approves of the fact that we got him. But none of that alters or mitigates the problems on the domestic front, and nobody's going to fundamentally alter this into an election about something other than that. Only events will do that, and drastic ones at that. A what-if accusation like this just doesn't have much mileage.

    But let's get back to the lameness and unfairness of this. First off, some ask (rhetorically) whether Obama is entitled to "spike the football", as it were. The answer is YES. It was a gutsy call, based on intelligence that was circumstantial but still the best we'd ever had since 2001, according to then-CIA Director Leon Panetta, who according to Joe Biden was the only person in the room decisively for it. Everyone else "hedged their bet", the experienced Biden told the President not to give the order. The operation was, admittedly, risky. He did it anyway and put a massive exclamation point on America's years-long effort to cripple Al Qaeda across the world. Well done. Yeah, you score a victory like that, you get to bask in your glory a bit.

    But celebrating victory is one thing, using it as a blunt instrument against Romney is another. Nobody knows what he or anybody else would do in that situation with the intelligence presented. You don't know until the time comes. The Obama team bases the insinuation on a 2007 quote where Romney said "It's not worth moving heaven and earth spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person." But a few days later he added "We'll move everything to get him. But I don't want to buy into the Democratic pitch that this is all about one person. ... It's more than Usama bin Laden. But he is going to pay, and he will die." Even the original quote is correct, Al Qaeda & terrorist movements are bigger than any one leader. The damage we did and do to Al Qaeda before & after his demise matters. Both the Bush and Obama administrations have not seen success against terrorism in such narrow terms. And it doesn't even follow from the cited quote that, given the best opportunity in years, you don't seize it.

    Moreover, it really is a bit much to see Joe Biden acting as an attack dog on the point - this from the man who publicly admitted that he advised the President not to go?! If this political attack were seriously based on the idea Romney's not qualified to lead and make big decisions, then logically Biden shouldn't be VP anymore. Never mind the unfortunate implications toward the rest of the Obama cabinet. At least Biden had a clearly defined opinion to offer.

    Of course, as said, it's not really all that serious. In contrast, Obama certainly could have used this to buttress his stature as commander in chief all the way through November. He could've gone for running as a proven & strong leader against an out-of-touch CEO, & that would have been in touch with the sort of person he likes people to see him as. But no, instead the campaign goes for the divisive cheap shot that will win a news cycle or two. He deserved to play the card. It's a shame he's doing it badly.

    Now watch as the approval ratings barely shift in the coming weeks.
    I would suggest that it's not the medium, but the quality of perception and expression, that determines the significance of art. But what would a cartoonist know? -Bill Watterson
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  3. #563
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    Yes, I agree, it's disappointing that they didn't pick a classier way of making the same point.

    It's a little late, but here's the video from Obama's White House Correspondents Dinner performance. It's hilarious, especially all the dog eating jokes. Being able to poke fun at yourself and use your enemies' ridiculous accusations against them is a major asset. There's also no question Obama is winning on the charm offensive, they're already doing ads criticizing him for being too "cool," but those will backfire like last time because they only reinforce how cool he is.

    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  4. #564
    stephane dumas is online now Senior Member
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    For the dog eating jokes, I saw on Youtube a parody of Hall'N'Oates hit "Man eater" titled "Dog eater" as well a parody clip from the movie "Downfall" well known for its countless parodies clips.

    Btw, when Gingrich will retire, it could be interesting to see where the delegates will go.

  5. #565
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephane dumas View Post
    For the dog eating jokes, I saw on Youtube a parody of Hall'N'Oates hit "Man eater" titled "Dog eater" as well a parody clip from the movie "Downfall" well known for its countless parodies clips.

    Btw, when Gingrich will retire, it could be interesting to see where the delegates will go.
    They'll go to Romney. They won't go to Paul, if that's what you're thinking.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  6. #566
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    Well, Newt officially got out of the race. So now, that leaves Romney and Ron Paul. Yep, the GOP race is over now.

    Also, Obama will officially kick off his reelection this Saturday with a rally at Virginia Commonwealth University(a college I almost went to). So, the general election more or less "officially" starts next week.

  7. #567
    stephane dumas is online now Senior Member
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    Looks like it's official, Gary Johnson is now officially the LP presidential nominee.
    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpps/new...20505_19711153

    LAS VEGAS (AP) - Former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson is campaigning to win the White House as a Libertarian after receiving scant attention in the Republican presidential race.

    Johnson easily became the party's presidential nominee at the Libertarian national convention in Las Vegas on Saturday. He hopes to appeal to voters fed up with the traditional two-party system this November.
    Johnson was a longshot candidate for the Republican presidential nomination when he announced in December that he would instead pursue the Libertarian ticket.

  8. #568
    Jacob is offline Moderator
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    I'm reading the last chapter of my US History book in preparation for the AP exam this week. And poor Newt Gingrich, for such a lover of history, history does not have a very glowing account of him. He's only mentioned a few times, among them:

    "outspoken Georgia representative"... "overplayed conservative mandate" ... "advocated provocative ideas like sending the children of welfare families to orphanages" ... "forced to resign"

    Nothing about a conservative revolutionary in there. I guess Newt's quest to make history as America's greatest president ever will never be realized, with his drop out and pitiful $4 million campaign debt this week.


  9. #569
    wonderfly's Avatar
    wonderfly is offline In the not too distant future
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacob2037 View Post
    I'm reading the last chapter of my US History book in preparation for the AP exam this week. And poor Newt Gingrich, for such a lover of history, history does not have a very glowing account of him. He's only mentioned a few times, among them:

    "outspoken Georgia representative"... "overplayed conservative mandate" ... "advocated provocative ideas like sending the children of welfare families to orphanages" ... "forced to resign"

    Nothing about a conservative revolutionary in there.
    Well that's because it's another piece of liberal indoctrination coming out of our school system.

    A more serious answer is probably that those history books tend to focus more on the actions of the Presidents throughout history more than members of Congress (unless it's McCarthy). Also, it's a bit too soon still to be putting the 90's into historical perspective.

  10. #570
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    EroSennin is offline The Frog Hermit
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderfly View Post
    Well that's because it's another piece of liberal indoctrination coming out of our school system.
    We all know truth has a liberal bias .

    Anyway the GOP has put out a new roll call attacking Obama on the economy and actually had the hypocrisy to outsource it to Venezuela.

    http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2012...mittee_21.html
    "Winter is coming." "Bango Skank was here." "The enemy gate is down" "Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain."

  11. #571
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    ChibiGoku is offline Something Not Quite Right
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    On a less serious note (and I don't think it's been posted here yet)...

    The guy who did the original English Pokemon theme, made a Ron Paul version of it.

    Interesting to say the least.

  12. #572
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    So, Romney won the primaries that were held today(no surprise). Other political news:

    - The longest serving Republican Senator, Richard Lugar(since 1976), lost his primary race against Indiana state treasurer, Richard Mourdock. Mourdock will face Democrat Joe Donnelly in the general election this Fall.

    - North Carolina voters voted to approve Amendment One, which rewrites the state constitution to ban gay marriage. The state already banned gay marriage, but this now puts it in their constitution.

    - Milwaukee mayor Tom Barrett won the Democratic primary in Wisconsin. He will go against Republican governor Scott Walker in a special election next month.

  13. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Cadet View Post
    - North Carolina voters voted to approve Amendment One, which rewrites the state constitution to ban gay marriage. The state already banned gay marriage, but this now puts it in their constitution.
    That makes me so very sad.

    I suppose I expected it to pass, but the fact that this (same-sex marriage) is even still an issue, and that they had to make an amendment which would ban it twice over just makes me sick.

    I wonder how long until my (dreadful) state decides to pour the salt into the wound as well.
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  14. #574
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    I think Obama can write off West Virginia. He only managed 59 percent of the vote in the Democratic primary there. Fourty percent went to a Federal prison inmate from Texas. A white Federal prison inmate from Texas, you understand. West Virginia is one of the states where people are most open about saying race is a factor in their decision-making.

    http://www.salon.com/2012/05/09/west...;t_like_obama/



    In more West Virginia news, here's who Mitt Romney is teaming up with there. A callous and irresponsible mine owner with blood on his hands. As the son of a coal miner, I have some words about this, but they are words that wouldn't pass toonzone's language filter.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politic...#disqus_thread
    Last edited by Shawn Hopkins; 05-09-2012 at 11:58 AM.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  15. #575
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    Yes that's right, convicts can't vote but they can get on a ballot apparently. My head hurts.
    I would suggest that it's not the medium, but the quality of perception and expression, that determines the significance of art. But what would a cartoonist know? -Bill Watterson
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  16. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    I think Obama can write off West Virginia. He only managed 59 percent of the vote in the Democratic primary there. Fourty percent went to a Federal prison inmate from Texas. A white Federal prison inmate from Texas, you understand. West Virginia is one of the states where people are most open about saying race is a factor in their decision-making.
    Do you remember that clip from the Daily Show in 2008 in which they interviewed people casting votes in the Democratic primary in West Virginia, and some of them said they weren't voting for Obama because he was black?

    Admitedly, that always stuck in my mind from that election year, and I'm just wondering if you remember that.

  17. #577
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    Obama was never going to win West Virginia anyway. He lost to Hillary Clinton by 40 in the Democratic primary, even though it was clear that Obama was going to win the nomination. He didn't win the state in the 2008 election and in the four years since, its gotten worse for him. In fact, the last time a Democrat won the state was Bill Clinton in 1996.

    Also, while the state does elect Democratic senators and congressmen, they tend to be the blue-collar, old-school, New Deal-type Democrat. Which explains why Senator Joe Manchin can distance himself from Obama and win.

  18. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderfly View Post
    Do you remember that clip from the Daily Show in 2008 in which they interviewed people casting votes in the Democratic primary in West Virginia, and some of them said they weren't voting for Obama because he was black?

    Admitedly, that always stuck in my mind from that election year, and I'm just wondering if you remember that.
    I don't have to remember it. I can just drive a couple of miles across the border and hear it live. Or just stay at home, I guess, I'm not going to pretend things are much different in eastern Kentucky.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  19. #579
    wonderfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Cadet View Post
    Obama was never going to win West Virginia anyway. He lost to Hillary Clinton by 40 in the Democratic primary, even though it was clear that Obama was going to win the nomination. He didn't win the state in the 2008 election and in the four years since, its gotten worse for him. In fact, the last time a Democrat won the state was Bill Clinton in 1996.

    Also, while the state does elect Democratic senators and congressmen, they tend to be the blue-collar, old-school, New Deal-type Democrat. Which explains why Senator Joe Manchin can distance himself from Obama and win.
    What boggles my mind is that West Virginia (and the Appalachian states in general) is that they are so Blue Collar/Union Democrat in population (I guess it's the coal mining industry) and yet, they have just rebelled against Obama so completely. They see him more as a Chicago/West Coast hippie than as a "true Democrat" (and thus consider him worse than a White Collar Rich Guy like Romney).

  20. #580
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderfly View Post
    What boggles my mind is that West Virginia (and the Appalachian states in general) is that they are so Blue Collar/Union Democrat in population (I guess it's the coal mining industry) and yet, they have just rebelled against Obama so completely. They see him more as a Chicago/West Coast hippie than as a "true Democrat" (and thus consider him worse than a White Collar Rich Guy like Romney).
    No, the bigger problem is lots of them see him as an, and I'm quoting here so don't get uptight, n-word. True story, I am here and I know this firsthand.

    My respect for Obama has increased immensely today, as he finally stopped talking out of both sides of his mouth and came out and said it. He personally supports the right of same-sex couples to get married. Not civil unionized, married.

    http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/201...iage-equality/

    “I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

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