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  1. #521
    The Talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindness King View Post
    I'm glad Santorum pulled out yesterday. He would run this country under a theocracy if he got the nomination and won the election. I mean I'm Christian, and yes this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, but we are supposed to have freedom of religion and I don't believe God or Jesus would want people forced into their kingdom against their will; they want them to accept them of their own free will.



    EDIT: That being said, I don't want this to somehow get off-topic. This is just what I feel about Santorum's campaign.
    I just want to say, this is one of the best posts I've seen in this thread and I want to thank you for typing it.


    Anyway, while you guys are debating over the women's rights issue, I'll be over here, sitting this one out. I'm pretty that (this is something the GOP needs to learn) due to the fact that I don't have a uterus, I don't have any control over how women use theirs. This entire thread is just getting insane anyway.

  2. #522
    The ShopSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Talon View Post
    Anyway, while you guys are debating over the women's rights issue, I'll be over here, sitting this one out. I'm pretty that (this is something the GOP needs to learn) due to the fact that I don't have a uterus, I don't have any control over how women use theirs. This entire thread is just getting insane anyway.
    As much as I'd love to fight back more effectively than just signing petitions against this "war", I have to agree with you.

    Most importantly, hearing all this news about rape being legalized and abortion being demonized (even though I'm sure a lot of us can't afford to have kids, period - cold hard truth) - it's sickening and I'm more ashamed to be American now than I ever was hearing it.

    However - and this is me hoping for something good to come out of all of this for everyone, this behavior, especially from the GOP (even though I'm sure there are supporters of them who do know better than this) across the nation, if anything, should be costing them voters for thinking they can control women like it's the 16th - 17th centuries... This alone paints a bad picture of all of us Americans worldwide and what we stand for, IMHO - and it needs to be curbed hard.
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  3. #523
    Classic Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostAnarchist View Post
    Most importantly, hearing all this news about rape being legalized and abortion being demonized (even though I'm sure a lot of us can't afford to have kids, period - cold hard truth) - it's sickening and I'm more ashamed to be American now than I ever was hearing it.
    Did I miss something? When was it ever discussed about making rape legal?

  4. #524
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Daedalus View Post
    Did I miss something? When was it ever discussed about making rape legal?
    They introduced an anti-abortion funding measure that sought to redefine "forcible rape." It in no way made rape legal, but it took away access to federal funding for abortion in a lot of cases where it would have been funded through exemptions before. After a lot of pressure from the left they changed it.

    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011...-rape-abortion

    The horrifying part of this is that it seems to indicate some of these guys think it can't be rape if there aren't a few bruises and broken bones. It would make rape legal if they were allowed to make this definition the law of the land, although I don't think the American public would ever stand for that.

    Herman Cain made a new ad that, cripes man, it's hard to even make jokes about these anymore. They are so bat-crap, flying over the moon and screaming "fiddley dee" crazy that what the heck do you say? This one involves a chicken mauling.

    Last edited by Shawn Hopkins; 04-12-2012 at 02:15 PM.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  5. #525
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    Apparently there is some sort of fervor over comments made about Mitt Romney's wife.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox News
    Democratic strategist and CNN contributor Hilary Rosen apologized Thursday to Ann Romney, wife of presumptive GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney, for criticizing her choice to be a stay-at-home mother.

    "I apologize to Ann Romney and anyone else who was offended," Rosen said in statement.

    Rosen sparked a firestorm of criticism by suggesting Wednesday evening on CNN that Romney was not qualified to help her husband on the campaign trail address women's issues.

    “Guess what, (Romney’s) wife has actually never worked a day in her life," said Rosen, who has twins with ex-partner Elizabeth Birch.

    In her apology, Rosen also said: “Let’s put the faux ‘war against stay at home moms’ to rest once and for all. As a mom I know that raising children is the hardest job there is. As a pundit, I know my words on CNN last night were poorly chosen."
    If we can drop the "faux war against stay at home moms", can we drop the faux "war on women" in general?

    Meanwhile, here's an article declaring that Romney's Mormon faith will become an issue in the Fall campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by CNN
    Richard Land is the public policy chief for the Southern Baptist Convention, the country’s largest evangelical denomination. He said Wednesday that he expects that the news media will make Mormonism more of an issue in an attempt to get independent voters to support President Barack Obama.

    ..........

    The news media “are going to go into startling detail in specials about what will be considered by many independents the rather exotic beliefs of Mormonism, like baptism for the dead, in hopes they can turn off independents who say ‘I don’t want to vote for a guy that believes that,’” said Land.

    Speaking to a group of CNN journalists in Washington, Land said that most evangelicals are familiar with the tenets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the official church of Mormonism, because the two groups are competing for converts.

    Most evangelicals already “know what Mormonism believes and most of them are prepared to vote for Mitt Romney in a general election against Barack Obama in spite of his Mormonism,” Land said.

    Land does not endorse candidates but has been close to Republican administrations like George W. Bush’s and has met with Romney on more than one occasion.

    Asked about Land's prediction about Romney's Mormonism becoming a bigger issue in the general election, Romney campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said that "most people don't care if you go to a different church."

    "What matters for the vast majority of voters is shared values," she said in an e-mail message. "In Mitt Romney they have a candidate who believes in faith, patriotism, hard work, and sacrifice. All they have to do is look at his family and how he lives his life."

  6. #526
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    Rosen definitely went too far, there.

    I think Land is massively overestimating the general public, even Evangelical's, knowledge about Mormonism. Most of what they believe is a confused mess of stuff mixed up with what they kinda know about Jehovah's witnesses.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  7. #527
    stephane dumas is online now Senior Member
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    I spotted a clip on Youtube showing Whoopi Goldberg on ABC "The View" wasn't agree with Rosen's comments.


    Edit: I don't know if there more Canadians mainly from Quebec who check this thread. I couldn't resist to think of a parallel of Rosen's comment with former Quebec minister Lise Payette who did a negative comments about the women who taked the side of "No" during the 1980 Quebec referendum calling them the "Yvettes", her comment galvanized the opposition. http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categorie...st-say-no.html
    Last edited by stephane dumas; 04-12-2012 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Adding additionnal infos

  8. #528
    Wounded_Dragon's Avatar
    Wounded_Dragon is offline Beast in the Machine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post

    Herman Cain made a new ad that, cripes man, it's hard to even make jokes about these anymore. They are so bat-crap, flying over the moon and screaming "fiddley dee" crazy that what the heck do you say? This one involves a chicken mauling.

    I love how the only statistic quoted is an opinion poll. Says a lot about the argument.
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  9. #529
    Jacob is offline Moderator
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    I think most evangelicals will vote for Romney just to get Obama out of office - it's the fundamentalists he has to worry about. I'm not sure what percentage of voters they are, but I could see fundamentalist Christians staying home and not voting for Romney. I don't think they'll be a large enough group to swing any states, though.

    Interestingly, in 1928, the deep South supported a liberal Catholic New Yorker just because he was the Democratic nominee (the South was heavily Democratic at the time), even when the landslide Republican victor had pursued a Southern strategy. If southerners can support a guy who they all thought took orders from the Pope in 1928, I'm sure they can support a Mormon who is very quiet about his religion in 2012.


  10. #530
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    The next fight is over tax returns. Obama released his today to put the pressure on Romney. Romney has been reluctant to release this kind of stuff in the past and it's made him look bad, but he knows the info in his returns can hurt him, too, so it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    And like I said before, this is the kind of thing that where the GOP will falter. They believe their own hype and think they're running against the ineffectual but still scary boogeyman version of Obama they created to scare people. But the real one does stuff like this, he's not so easy to outmaneuver.
    Last edited by Shawn Hopkins; 04-13-2012 at 03:55 PM.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  11. #531
    Space Cadet's Avatar
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    Well, Gallup released their first results from their daily tracking polls between Romney and Obama and at the moment, Romney is up 47-45.

    http://www.gallup.com/Home.aspx

    Obviously things will change between now and November, but now we know that the general election is underway.

  12. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Cadet View Post
    Well, Gallup released their first results from their daily tracking polls between Romney and Obama and at the moment, Romney is up 47-45.

    http://www.gallup.com/Home.aspx

    Obviously things will change between now and November, but now we know that the general election is underway.
    CNN has Obama up 52-43 in their poll.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ney/?hpt=hp_t1
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  13. #533
    wonderfly's Avatar
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    Romney's only 4 points behind Obama in a New York Times poll.

    Some interesting findings in that link:

    69: The percentage of GOP voters surveyed who said that they now hold a favorable view of Romney. This is the highest he's polled among likely Republican voters. His favorability is split along gender lines, with 77 percent of male GOP voters holding a favorable opinion of Romney, versus 59 percent of female GOP voters.

    .........

    45: The percentage of independent voters surveyed by Gallup that indicated a preference for Romney, versus 39 percent who favored Obama. This gave Romney a slight edge in that outlet's overall polling of 2 percent, with a possible margin of error in the sampling of 3 percentage points.

  14. #534
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    Apparently Ann Romney is a Will Vinton Character.



    Actually, that's just the topper of the cake from a birthday party that noted moron Donald Trump threw for her recently. Because that's just what humble stay at home moms do, let billionaires throw them birthday parties where there is a cake designed by the guy from Cake Boss that shows them riding one of their expensive horses. So, you gain a few pity points when some mean lady said mean things about you, and then rush to throw some of them away by making it very clear you've been a pampered rich person your entire life.

    Gingrich ain't gettin' the penguin vote.

    http://www.bnd.com/2012/04/16/214329...no-fan-of.html

    Ted Nugent maybe kinda threatened to kill the President, and is being investigated by the Secret Service. Yep.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/ted-nugent-threatened-to-kill-president-obama.html

    Last edited by Shawn Hopkins; 04-19-2012 at 12:02 PM.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  15. #535
    Jacob is offline Moderator
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    This may be Romney's "let them eat cake" moment:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,4008747.story

    Those cookies actually look pretty good. I would eat them.


  16. #536
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    Republicans may be forced into putting their money where their mouths are on the "all moms are working moms" thing.

    http://stark.house.gov/index.php?opt...&Itemid=500235

    But they'll probably weasel out of it.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  17. #537
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    Herman Cain's ads are always the best. It's refreshing, and better than the usual attack ads that we always see this time of year.
    "There comes a time in your life when you have to make a decision, you have to choose. Do you want to wear Armani suits? Or do you want to take care of orphans?" Me, I choose to wear Armani suits. Let somebody else take care of those spoiled brats."-Kurt Angle

  18. #538
    wonderfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins
    Republicans may be forced into putting their money where their mouths are on the "all moms are working moms" thing.

    http://stark.house.gov/index.php?opt...&Itemid=500235

    But they'll probably weasel out of it.
    Wow, I read that link, and "weasel" is what came to my mind to express what those Democrats are trying to do. They're basically trying to take back the 1990's Clinton era reforms to welfare. They want to encourage young women to have babies so as just to live off of the system.

    From that link:

    Current law does not count low-income stay-at-home parents who are raising young children as meeting the necessary Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) work requirement. Current law also bans states from counting these individuals toward that state's work participation rate, which can result in financial penalties if not met. This effectively bars low-income parents who choose to stay home to raise their young children from access to the financial support of TANF.
    ..........

    The WORK Act would amend TANF law to recognize the critical job of raising children age three or younger as work. Under the legislation, low-income parents could work, receive job training, search for work, or raise their children until they are school-aged without fear of losing TANF support and being pushed deeper into poverty. This is the same option that wealthy families, such as the Romneys, enjoy.
    This is what TANF (aka welfare) actually does.

    The whole point of TANF is that it WANTS you to search for work and get job training, all while allowing you to keep your TANF. And as that link shows, there is still plenty of ways to avoid looking for a job and yet keep your TANF.

    Being a "stay at home" mom refers to a woman who has a spouse in the workforce, it is not supposed to refer to a single woman who is a mother due to circumstances (some beyond her control, and some of her own making). To encourage single mothers to just stay home and raise kids, while living off the system, is immoral. While it may indeed be better for a mother to be the one raising their kid (as opposed to a daycare system) this does nothing to better the mother. In fact, paying for them to just raise kids does the opposit: it encourages them to keep pumping out babies, while living off the state.

  19. #539
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderfly View Post
    Wow, I read that link, and "weasel" is what came to my mind to express what those Democrats are trying to do. They're basically trying to take back the 1990's Clinton era reforms to welfare. They want to encourage young women to have babies so as just to live off of the system.

    From that link:



    This is what TANF (aka welfare) actually does.

    The whole point of TANF is that it WANTS you to search for work and get job training, all while allowing you to keep your TANF. And as that link shows, there is still plenty of ways to avoid looking for a job and yet keep your TANF.

    Being a "stay at home" mom refers to a woman who has a spouse in the workforce, it is not supposed to refer to a single woman who is a mother due to circumstances (some beyond her control, and some of her own making). To encourage single mothers to just stay home and raise kids, while living off the system, is immoral. While it may indeed be better for a mother to be the one raising their kid (as opposed to a daycare system) this does nothing to better the mother. In fact, paying for them to just raise kids does the opposit: it encourages them to keep pumping out babies, while living off the state.
    The idea that there is this huge group of of women out there who will rush to have children just to get welfare is right wing talking point rooted in the cynically exploited "welfare queen" stereotype and with no basis in reality. Anyone who thinks anyone really wants to raise a child on welfare has no idea how hard that is.

    Would it really be so bad to help women take care of their own children? We end up paying to take care of them anyway with state sponsored child care programs, and society suffers terribly as these children grow up without parental supervision because their mother has no time to take care of them as she spends all of her time away from them. Why not cut out the middleman and allow these children to be taken care of in the home for the same cost? I don't think allowing a child to grow up in a loving, stable home for the three years before it enters pre-school is immoral. And having the time to be a mother would do great things for a woman, it would better them immensely. Throw in some job skills and workforce training as part of the deal the way this bill does and you would have a woman who is more ready and more likely to enter the workforce when her child goes to school.

    Also, here are the four goals of TANF, from the official Department of Health and Human Services page:

    http://www.hhs.gov/recovery/programs...-overview.html

    The four purposes of TANF are:

    • assisting needy families so that children can be cared for in their own homes;
    • reducing the dependency of needy parents by promoting job preparation, work and marriage;
    • preventing out-of-wedlock pregnancies; and
    • encouraging the formation and maintenance of two-parent families.


    The first two could benefit from a program that allows children to be raised in the home for the first three years. The second two sound like a good reason for increased funding for Planned Parenthood or a similar program.
    Last edited by Shawn Hopkins; 04-20-2012 at 04:11 PM.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  20. #540
    stephane dumas is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    The idea that there is this huge group of of women out there who will rush to have children just to get welfare is right wing talking point rooted in the cynically exploited "welfare queen" stereotype and with no basis in reality. Anyone who thinks anyone really wants to raise a child on welfare has no idea how hard that is.
    I heard of these rumors too mainly about peoples from part of Appalachia and Detroit and that article from the Detroit Free Press might add more fire to the wood.

    Some of these stereotypes also afflued in the Great White North. Even in Quebec, Canada; there stories of peoples who are in welfare from generation to generation then it even inspired some creators of a tv series broadcasted on the French-Canadian tv network Radio-Canada titled "Les Bougon". Here a clip from that series then I saw with subtitles

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