Quantcast
  1. #1251
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
    Shawn Hopkins is offline TZ Member of the Year 2013
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Winner's Circle
    Posts
    14,722
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Like This Thread!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hordesman View Post
    With regards to Disney's Alice... The movie was not a success during its initial release. Some of the crew felt it lacked heart, that they should have kept in the White Knight as a love interest. But during the 1960s, someone noticed that colleges kept requesting the film for exhibition (at this point in the company's history, they rented out educational films- presumably Alice qualified because of its literary roots). This story ends with a rerelease whose advertising materials emphasized the film's psychedelic qualities and probably helped fuel drug rumors surrounding the film.
    And Jefferson Airplane's White Rabbit, which is totally about drugs, made the association even stronger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael24 View Post
    The only Disney film I ever thought "they must have been on drugs when they did this" was during the Pink Elephants sequence of Dumbo.
    Well, pink elephants are the "joke" thing that people see when they're having the DTs, and Dumbo is drunk during the scene, so the trippiness is fully intentional. There you go, a drug trip in a major disney film.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  2. #1252
    defunctzombie's Avatar
    defunctzombie is online now Cutie Pie
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dream Land
    Posts
    7,014
    Blog Entries
    25
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tons of children's movies have drug induced/trippy scenes in them. Willy Wonka, anyone?
    Stalemate Resolution Associate for Video Games and Cafe Toonzone
    tumblr/Nintendo ID: defunctzombie

  3. #1253
    cognitofalcon's Avatar
    cognitofalcon is offline G'night evry' body!!
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    884
    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins
    I'm sorry, but I have to advocate for the reality-based community here. What's wrong with saying something that's true?

    You don't want to hear it, even if it's true (although as far as I can tell, it's not). C'mon, can't you see that that's a little close-minded? What if I said, "Whoa, the guy that wrote Kubla Khan must have been high on opium when he wrote it?" Because it's true, he was. Or, "Wow, the guy that wrote Naked Lunch must have done a lot drugs?" Because he totally did. Did you know that Robert Louis Stevenson wrote The Strange Case of Dr. Jekkyl and Mr. Hyde during a furious six day drug bender, with the idea itself inspired by a drug nightmare? Hell, I've read that he wrote it twice, because his wife destroyed the first manuscript. You know how Stephen King pumped out so many words so quickly? Yeah, cocaine. And then there's the whole category of psychedelic art and Basquiat. Lots of art is drug-influenced, you can't bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not true. It doesn't make one pro drugs to accept this fact.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ory-literature

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...3.html#s267145

    http://quietfurybooks.com/blog/tag/r...wis-stevenson/

    Well, a lot of old cartoons are racist. That's true.
    My point was that it is an overused phrase that people throw around too often. I don't deny the fact that drug-influenced art exists.

    And regarding the old cartoons, they in fact AREN'T racist, they are stereotypical, there is a difference =)
    I now use Tumblr regularly.
    http://cognitofalcon.tumblr.com/
    I'm also participating in Let's Plays now (Among other things)
    http://www.youtube.com/user/SAFGuys

    Not as cynical now a'days =) I am much happier too!

  4. #1254
    Shawn Hopkins's Avatar
    Shawn Hopkins is offline TZ Member of the Year 2013
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Winner's Circle
    Posts
    14,722
    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by defunctzombie View Post
    Tons of children's movies have drug induced/trippy scenes in them. Willy Wonka, anyone?
    "What is this, some kind of freak out?"

    But not many have the characters actually get high like Dumbo does.

    And, no, I'm sorry but I feel that if a cartoon portrays a character in terms of racist stereotypes, such as the slow-witted, shuffling, gambling addicted pickaninny in "All This and Rabbit Stew" or the servile black centaurs in Fantasia, then that is in fact racist. There's not problem with viewing it as a product of its time, but let's not make apologies for it or pretend otherwise. That's probably all I should say on the issue, though, it's a touchy one and I don't want to derail this thread with a big debate.
    Last edited by Shawn Hopkins; 04-09-2012 at 11:46 PM.
    Here's the deal, I'm the best there is. I wake up in the morning and I urinate excellence. And nobody can hang with my stuff. I'm just a big hairy American winning machine.

    I'm very humble, too.

  5. #1255
    Storm Eagle's Avatar
    Storm Eagle is offline Power to the peaceful
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,141
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Hopkins View Post
    I'm sorry, but I have to advocate for the reality-based community here. What's wrong with saying something that's true?

    You don't want to hear it, even if it's true (although as far as I can tell, it's not). C'mon, can't you see that that's a little close-minded? What if I said, "Whoa, the guy that wrote Kubla Khan must have been high on opium when he wrote it?" Because it's true, he was. Or, "Wow, the guy that wrote Naked Lunch must have done a lot drugs?" Because he totally did. Did you know that Robert Louis Stevenson wrote The Strange Case of Dr. Jekkyl and Mr. Hyde during a furious six day drug bender, with the idea itself inspired by a drug nightmare? Hell, I've read that he wrote it twice, because his wife destroyed the first manuscript. You know how Stephen King pumped out so many words so quickly? Yeah, cocaine. And then there's the whole category of psychedelic art and Basquiat. Lots of art is drug-influenced, you can't bury your head in the sand and pretend it's not true. It doesn't make one pro drugs to accept this fact.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ory-literature

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...3.html#s267145

    http://quietfurybooks.com/blog/tag/r...wis-stevenson/

    The thing is that this friend happens to smoke weed, and he happens to think that we'd all be at our best if we do so. Rather typical.

    It could be true that some of the best ideas might have been thought up on account of drugs, but it could just give people the wrong idea. Like, "hey, want to come up with the next best thing that change the world and maybe even earn you millions of dollars? Try some weed!". So let's say that the guy who came up with Tetris really was high when he did. I might be appreciative of Tetris, but just in spite of how the idea came about.
    The artist formerly known as PRdude.

  6. #1256
    Jave's Avatar
    Jave is offline Beware of the SPLAT
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Chile
    Posts
    11,032
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    I honestly don't want to dwelve too much into this subject, but I feel this is something that needs to be addressed. I apologize in advance if anyone feels offended by this.

    Quote Originally Posted by cognitofalcon View Post
    And regarding the old cartoons, they in fact AREN'T racist, they are stereotypical, there is a difference =)
    No, a lot of them are in fact racist. They are products of their time, sure, and a lot of them didn't have mean intentions when they were made (particularly the jazzy ones and some involving African natives). However, this doesn't mean they're not racist, specially when you notice some of the jokes used in these cartoons bear no purpose other than to make fun of a stereotype.

    The biggest examples are the MGM shorts (Tom & Jerry, Tex Avery, etc.). A lot of them had explosions gags and such that usually end up with a character getting a blackface and suddenly the character will be talking in a stereotypical fashion. These gags were usually inserted simply for show, because there's no reason for them to be there in the first place. What's even weirder is that Tex Avery didn't use these gags much in his previous work at WB (outside of a few specific shorts like "Rabbit Stew" which Shawn mentioned), so for several years researches have speculated what made the studio put so many of these jokes in. If I had to take a guess, one of the higher-ups probably liked to put these jokes in, regardless of whether he realized the implications of them.

    The WWII cartoons are on a different level since they were made on special circumstances, however, some of them really are offensive these days even in context. "Tokio Jokio" is a cartoon that will probably never see the light of day ever again.

    Watching these shorts as products of their time and taking into account their historical value and conditions in which they were made is fine. I do that myself. But don't pretend these shorts aren't racist, that's naive at best.
    Jave's Support Gallery - My Tumblr Blog detailing my current run of Fire Emblem: Awakening.

    What a Cartoon Review Blog - My own project where the goal is to write a detailed review to the original 48 WAC shorts.

  7. #1257
    J. B. Warner's Avatar
    J. B. Warner is offline Increasing my wordiness
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Anywhere you're not
    Posts
    3,560
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by purplehairedwonder View Post
    I've been writing fan fiction for years. My writing has improved drastically because of the practice. Now I mostly write in the Supernatural fandom; I've found some excellent writers through the community on Livejournal. FF.N is a mixed bag, mostly of bad work, with the occasional gem (and I've found a few real gems).
    I have generally tried to move away from fanfiction in recent years, as I know my time would be better spent on creating wholly original stories with my own characters. But I do occasionally gravitate back in that direction. I did a few RPs on DeviantArt not too long ago, a Pokémon one and a Harry Potter one, that I reworked into fanfic stories which I actually think are pretty good (albeit incomplete; I only wrote a few chapters of each). For what it's worth, I didn't write for pre-existing characters - I created new characters and tried to think of how they'd react in their particular universe. In that respect, I can definitely see how fanfiction is beneficial to original creative writing.
    I'm the man with two DeviantArts.

  8. #1258
    Silverstar's Avatar
    Silverstar is offline Comfortably Dumb
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cartoonland
    Posts
    13,920
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Am I the only one who gets annoyed when fans of something say to or about non-fans of said thing that "Anyone who doesn't like so-and-so just doesn't get it!"? While sometimes that can indeed be the case (I'll probably never understand the fascination with Adventure Time), too often the expression is used as the rallying cry of the egomaniacal fanboy/girl. It's as if these people can't fathom that everyone's tastes are different and there's no possible conceivable way that someone can not be into something which they're a fan of, so if someone says they don't like this thing, then it must be ignorance or lack of education on the non-fan's part.

    There are plenty of things which I get just fine, but I'm still not into.
    Like cartoons, comedy, riffs, wisecracks, funny video clips and humorous commentary on animation and geek culture? Check out The Twin Factor, the Star Twins' blog.

  9. #1259
    Scrappy-Fan92 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    North America
    Posts
    361
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Starbro View Post
    Am I the only one who gets annoyed when fans of something say to or about non-fans of said thing that "Anyone who doesn't like so-and-so just doesn't get it!"? While sometimes that can indeed be the case (I'll probably never understand the fascination with Adventure Time), too often the expression is used as the rallying cry of the egomaniacal fanboy/girl. It's as if these people can't fathom that everyone's tastes are different and there's no possible conceivable way that someone can not be into something which they're a fan of, so if someone says they don't like this thing, then it must be ignorance or lack of education on the non-fan's part.

    There are plenty of things which I get just fine, but I'm still not into.
    I think that most applies to video game fanbases; I mean there are tons of series I don't get into.

  10. #1260
    Peter Paltridge's Avatar
    Peter Paltridge is offline It's worth iiiiiiiit
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Stars Hollow
    Posts
    17,191
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Why aren't Blu-Ray drives standard on PCs yet? I looked at what Costco was selling these days and they all still have just DVD drives in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbro View Post
    Am I the only one who gets annoyed when fans of something say to or about non-fans of said thing that "Anyone who doesn't like so-and-so just doesn't get it!"? While sometimes that can indeed be the case (I'll probably never understand the fascination with Adventure Time), too often the expression is used as the rallying cry of the egomaniacal fanboy/girl. It's as if these people can't fathom that everyone's tastes are different and there's no possible conceivable way that someone can not be into something which they're a fan of, so if someone says they don't like this thing, then it must be ignorance or lack of education on the non-fan's part.

    There are plenty of things which I get just fine, but I'm still not into.
    It's justified. Most people don't understand smart, savvy, innovative things because they're simply not smart enough to get them. Community is better than 2 Broke Girls. It's a scientific fact.
    Visit my website! It's comfy and easy to wear!
    www.platypuscomix.net
    THIS WEEK: In the newest (relatively speaking) Misfit Christmas Special, someone stole Santa Claus! Can a bestselling author and her talking mouse get to the bottom of this?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

 
toonzone quick jump
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO