General Election 2008 Talkback (Please Read Rules Before Posting!)

[The Avatar]

I thought I was going to click on that link and read somebody claiming that John McCain wants all women to stay in the kitchen, or something. But instead I find out he's against abortion. Oh yeah, because being against abortion means being against women's rights...

OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit. But it still will alienate the Clinton supporters that he is trying to poach. A large majority of women who supported Hillary Clinton are pro-choice, and there's a mistaken impression that McCain is also pro-choice, when he is incredibly anti-abortion and bragged that he got a 0% of NAARL when trying to win the Republican primaries. He also voted against several women's rights initiatives in the Senate. He voted against funding to prevent teen and unintended pregnancies. He voted against public education for emergency contraception. He voted against comprehensive sex education. He voted against requiring health care plans to cover birth control. He voted against international family planning funding. He voted against public education for emergency contreception. He voted against restoring Medicaid funding for low-income women that could be used for family planning. Once he starts highlighting this, I'm pretty sure his numbers with women will go up. Already, his numbers in the polls are going up. His lead over McCain has increased since Hillary gave her endorsement. Gallup has Obama with 48% and McCain with 42%, a 3 point increase from last time. Rasmussen has Obama with 50% and McCain with 44%, a 4 point increase from last time. Both polls have him ahead out of the margin of error. Also, Obama now had solid support from women. 52% go for Obama while 40% go for McCain. That's actually better than the margin that Kerry held over Bush in 2004. Obama is also doing better with hispanics than Kerry did in 2004, with a larger than 2-to-1, with 62% going for Obama and only 29% going to McCain. Of course, he still needs to be able to sustain this lead over McCain through the general election to November.

Here's where I got my poll numbers:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_106160.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_105456.html

[Lord Dalek]

I'm surprised this story hasn't gotten much airtime yet.

[Punisher]

I'm surprised this story hasn't gotten much airtime yet.

Thanks for the obviously slanted article, it failed to mention on how they divorced on good terms and how McCain helped her to get settled before they left.

The settlement included two houses, and financial support for her ongoing medical treatments for injuries resulting from the 1969 car accident; they would remain on good terms.

The marriage also failed because he was away from her for five years being tortured and had to undergo extensive recovery when he got back. It's not exactly easy to pick up a relationship after five years of not seeing each other.

[wonderfly]

Meanwhile, in the "Things that make you go 'Hmmmm'" catagory...

I think our energy problems are going to be a major issue on people's minds this November. Of interest to me from the above article is mention by Obama that he'll give a $1,000 tax cut to non-wealthy Americans. Hey, I'll take whatever I can get, whether it's a democrat or a republican in the White House. Of course, that "good news" is offset by Obama's saying that he'll give a tax increase to the wealthy. Because, of course, all wealthy people are evil and deserve to have their money taken away from them.

Furthermore, there's this little gem from Obama:

"At a time when we're fighting two wars, when millions of Americans can't afford their medical bills or their tuition bills, when we're paying more than $4 a gallon for gas, the man who rails against government spending wants to spend $1.2 billion on a tax break for Exxon Mobil," Obama said. "That isn't just irresponsible. It's outrageous."

I just want to point out that a "$1.2 billion tax break" is not "spending". It's getting money out of government's hands. One of the things McCain keeps emphasizing is how he'll curb government spending. Getting the money away from the government and back to the private sector, where they can use it to stimulate the economy, is a good thing.

A large majority of women who supported Hillary Clinton are pro-choice, and there's a mistaken impression that McCain is also pro-choice, when he is incredibly anti-abortion and bragged that he got a 0% of NAARL when trying to win the Republican primaries. He also voted against several women's rights initiatives in the Senate. He voted against funding to prevent teen and unintended pregnancies. He voted against public education for emergency contraception. He voted against comprehensive sex education. He voted against requiring health care plans to cover birth control. He voted against international family planning funding. He voted against public education for emergency contreception. He voted against restoring Medicaid funding for low-income women that could be used for family planning.

Could you provide links to news stories that report that? I don't dispute you, but I want to read more about it, (because I hadn't heard about any of this). Maybe I'll just do some more research myself...from my point of view, voting against some, (though not all) of those bills might be a good thing, but it depends on the language of the bills he voted against.

At any rate, I am surprised that some people thought that McCain was pro-Abortion...it's one of the few conservative principles he's stuck to over the years, (or so I was led to believe).

[GWOtaku]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of hearing about gas prices in political campaigns. If a couple years from now gas is six bucks a gallon, knowing that Exxon is paying a hell of a lot more in taxes won't be of much comfort or practical use. Wake me when there's talk about real change to the way we run on and harvest energy in this country, as opposed to channeling spite and manufactured outrage against corporations.

posted by wonderfly:

At any rate, I am surprised that some people thought that McCain was pro-Abortion...it's one of the few conservative principles he's stuck to over the years, (or so I was led to believe).

It's been a doubt raised since the primaries. It was a product of either disinformation or paranoia, coming mostly from conservatives that think the gang of 14 compromise was an unforgivable negotiation.

[Zach Logan]

OBAMA on TZ: 66.67%
MCCAIN on TZ: 24.07%

The gap is spreading, but I bet by now and November that poll gets a bit closer to what we see in the general election...right now it looks like West Virginia did for Hillary...

[The Penguin]

I watched the Hillary speech on Saturday and I would have to say I was pretty impressed with it. I have not been very impressed with her speeches overall, but I thought this was a good one.

There's been talk by some Obama supporters that McCain won't stand a chance after Obama crushes him in the debates, and looking at this, it would look like Obama's got it in the bag. But judging by the fact George W. Bush is currently serving out his second term, I don't take anything for granted. I still think Obama and his supporters are going to have to work to get him elected. Plus, Obama may be great at speeches, but his performances at the debates have been sort of uneven. Speeches need you to think in paragraphs, while debate force you to think in sound bites. And many people who are great at one find themselves lost when trying to do the other one. In some of the debates, Obama seemed halting and unsure (although he did get better in time). Then again, Kerry got a boost in the polls after his first debate with Kerry and he wasn't a really great debater (or a speech writer for that matter). He won simply because Bush was a horrible debater (look up "You Forgot Poland" from a while back.). I guess only time will tell.

While I am not here to declare the fantastic debating skills of John McCain, Obama has not proven himself to be very strong in the debate format. He's great at the stump speech in front of an arena full of people, but has not been very strong behind the podium in front of a moderator. You very much see the law professor when Obama is trying to answer a question. He got better of course as one does with anything, but Clinton wanted more debates when it was down to the wire because it was one area where she clearly out-shined him.

McCain on the other hand usually managed to get his point across in the debates by keeping things a bit simpler and really engaged his opponents (some articles cited the way he put Romney on the defensive right before Super Tuesday to be part of Mitt's downfall, story). I'll be interested to see these two go at it on the same stage.

[The Avatar]

While I am not here to declare the fantastic debating skills of John McCain, Obama has not proven himself to be very strong in the debate format. He's great at the stump speech in front of an arena full of people, but has not been very strong behind the podium in front of a moderator. You very much see the law professor when Obama is trying to answer a question. He got better of course as one does with anything, but Clinton wanted more debates when it was down to the wire because it was one area where she clearly out-shined him.

McCain on the other hand usually managed to get his point across in the debates by keeping things a bit simpler and really engaged his opponents (some articles cited the way he put Romney on the defensive right before Super Tuesday to be part of Mitt's downfall, story). I'll be interested to see these two go at it on the same stage.

If you read my post, you'd see that I said that he was kind of uneven at the debates and that I said that he doesn't have it in the bag. Anyway, I never thought he was that good at the debates though. He did make that gaffe saying that the issue of economics is not something he understands that well. Obama'll probably get a few ads off of that. But Obama has had some good performances at the debates so we'll see when the first debates happen.

[GWOtaku]

Obama's a good enough orator that he can make a speech and make people want to vote for him simply out of a desire to vote for the man, as opposed to his particular policies. I think there's a hell of a lot of that attitude out there, considering how long so many people wait before they really pay attention. Right now, the fact that we have our first black man making a truly serious run to be the President is big news, and justifiably so. The current polling is understandable and even natural.

When it comes to debates though, there's no doubt that he comes off as far more temperate and normal. If they actually do town halls beyond the three debates, I think it will probably help McCain. Its not quite JFK and Nixon here. It isn't young vs. old, its people deciding if they buy into the hype of--yes--Obama's cult of personality. McCain will win on some arguments and Obama will win on some, but first and foremost I think all of that TV exposure will make the point that Obama is a man who wants to be President, not someone whose election will magically solve our problems and vindicate our goodness and make "the world" suddenly love us again, whatever the standard for that is supposed to be.

[The Penguin]

If you read my post, you'd see that I said that he was kind of uneven at the debates and that I said that he doesn't have it in the bag. Anyway, I never thought he was that good at the debates though. He did make that gaffe saying that the issue of economics is not something he understands that well. Obama'll probably get a few ads off of that. But Obama has had some good performances at the debates so we'll see when the first debates happen.

I'm willing to admit that I had two pages to read and was starting to skim by the time I got to you. My apologies. While it turns out my post is more agreeing with you that I thought while I was writing it (and disagreeing with the "some Obama supporters"), I still stand by what I said and think McCain showed himself to be a better debater overall than Obama in the primaries. That can be contributed to various factors, but I really think McCain looked better.

[Palin Dromos]

...and there's a mistaken impression that McCain is also pro-choice, when he is incredibly anti-abortion and bragged that he got a 0% of NAARL when trying to win the Republican primaries.

Psst.. I think you're referring to NARAL (National Abortion Rights Action League)

Could you provide links to news stories that report that? I don't dispute you, but I want to read more about it, (because I hadn't heard about any of this). Maybe I'll just do some more research myself...from my point of view, voting against some, (though not all) of those bills might be a good thing, but it depends on the language of the bills he voted against.

At any rate, I am surprised that some people thought that McCain was pro-Abortion...it's one of the few conservative principles he's stuck to over the years, (or so I was led to believe).

Here's a link to NARAL's little comparison chart. Just know that they are most certainly a Pro-Choice organization so it will feel one sided, but they do site articles and legislation relevant to their claims.

Guess I may as well weigh-in as long a I'm here.
I'm an Obama supporter. Not just because I'm a died-in-the-wool Democrat, but because I believe that one of the major problems facing the US is our standing in the international community. And I think that Obama represents something different from how the rest of the world seems to perceive us.
With rapid advances in communications, transportation, population and other aspects of globalization the world is getting smaller, and over the past few years the US seems to be pushing away many potential allies. More willing support from the rest of the world could help us safely dial down our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. Increased foreign confidence in America's infrastructure could help revalue the sagging US dollar, and start to pull us back out of the recession.
Electing Obama will not solve all our problems over-night, but the simple fact that he's black maybe enough to cause some out there, who wrote us off years ago, to do a double-take and actually reconsider that the US.
Now I'm not trying to be racist or imply that the only reason to vote for Obama is the color of his skin. I could also say that electing Hillary would also cause I similar double-take. I voted for Obama in the primaries because I actually like what I heard about his polices and methods.

Now as for McCain, I think the world would currently be a better place if he had been the Republican Nominee back in 2000 as opposed to Bush. He's a smart man with a wealth of experience, and his history of bi-partisanship is a real reason to respect him. As much as I don't like his stance on things like abortion, I don't think he will make things worse if he is elected in November. I'm just not confident he would make things better.

I believe that Obama will be able to make some things better. (Again I'm a Democrat so my definition of better may not be your definition of better. )

Another thing to consider (aside from VP-picks) is the composition of Congress after November. If it's majority is the opposition party to the president elect than we can probably expect more the stalemate we've had for the past couple years.
If a single party dominates both Congress and the White House we can expect more expedient governing.
The presidency's important, but so are the legislators.

(posted with profound respect for the political leanings of all who read this.)

[The Avatar]

McCain's home state Arizona might be a swing state this election. It's still unlikely at this point, but McCain's lead is small considering its his home state. I think Obama's leading by about 30 points in Illinois. But it's still pretty much a safely Republican state at this. It doesn't look nearly as encouraging there for Democrats as Colorado, which Obama has a good shot at winning, or even Virginia, which is polling much closer than usual, with some polls showing them evenly tied. But Obama could narrow McCain's lead in the polls there enough to force McCain to have to spend time, money and resources there, giving him less time in other states. I've heard that he's trying to do this in states like Georgia, Idaho and Montana.

[GWOtaku]

....why?

[Lord Dalek]

McCain's home state Arizona might be a swing state this election. It's still unlikely at this point, but McCain's lead is small considering its his home state. I think Obama's leading by about 30 points in Illinois. But it's still pretty much a safely Republican state at this. It doesn't look nearly as encouraging there for Democrats as Colorado, which Obama has a good shot at winning, or even Virginia, which is polling much closer than usual, with some polls showing them evenly tied. But Obama could narrow McCain's lead in the polls there enough to force McCain to have to spend time, money and resources there, giving him less time in other states. I've heard that he's trying to do this in states like Georgia, Idaho and Montana.

This is exactly why the GOP didn't want to face Obama. He has the money and the manpower to take states usually considered red strongholds and turn em into battlegrounds. McCain has neither the funds or the manpower to campaign in all of these places allowing Obama the chance to turn some (maybe all) blue in the general.

Also add NC to the list of battleground states, Ramussen has it 45-43 McCain.

[peacebyanymeans]

....why?

That... seems incredibly racist...

[Don_East]

....why?

It's... a monkey... And very racist looking as well.

[GWOtaku]

I wasn't sure what to make of it. I mean, it can be seen that way, but the site seems pretty positive. Here's the wiki entry about this sort of toy, which seems to suggest that its a more obscure version of the teddy bear.

EDIT: Okay, according to this, the company behind this happens to be owned by folks that gave the max amount of cash to Romney (see 1st comment). Its also curious that they're out of stock, so this is seeming like a very tasteless stunt...seems to me my optimism was misplaced, and I'm assuming this is what it looks like.

I'm not amused.

[Lord Dalek]

I don't know whats more depressing, the fact that it took me more than five minutes to figure out that Thesock Obama was a racist caricature, or that I think he's kinda cute .

[Wounded_Dragon]

I don't know whats more depressing, the fact that it took me more than five minutes to figure out that Thesock Obama was a racist caricature, or that I think he's kinda cute .

If racism was easy to see, it'd be gone by now I think.

[GWOtaku]

I'm thinking I maybe shouldn't have brought it up, its not very relevant to the election...well, for the record, the makers responded & this has been posted here and there on blogs...I'll quote it below for what its worth, take it or leave it.

To Those with Heartfelt Queries,

We chose twenty-two customer queries today that we believe merit a response. You touched us with either your concern, intelligence, humor, sensitivity, and/or your thoughtfulness. We thank you. There are other queries we received today as well that we chose not to respond to, because of their spewing of venom and their aimlessness.

We at TheSockObama Co. are saddened that some individuals have chosen to misinterpret our plush toy. It is not, nor has it ever been our objective to hurt, dismay or anger anyone. We guess there is an element of naviete on our part, in that we don't think in terms of myths, fables, fairy tales and folklore. We simply made a casual and affectionate observation one night, and a charming association between a candidate and a toy we had when we were little. We wonder now if this might be a great opportunity to take this moment to really try and transcend still existing racial biases. We think that if we can do this together, maybe it will behoove us a nation and maybe we'll even begin to truly communicate with one another more tenderly, more real even.

This is only our introductory plush toy. If we choose to move forward with a Republican candidate, we'll begin with an elongated and slightly lumpy, fuzzy Idaho potato. Had a different Democratic candidate won the nomination, we were prepared to move forward with the cutest, fluffiest 12" chestnut and golden-haired squirrel, with a short Farrah-like do in a brown pantsuit and call her Squirellary.

In earnest folks, we're so sorry we offended anybody.

Best Regards,

TheSockObama Co. www.thesockobama.com