Teen Titans "How Long Is Forever?" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Bird Boy]

The Titans return for an all-new season!


http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/teentitans/t-Main.jpg

Episode 14 "How Long Is Forever?"
Original Airdate - January 10th, 2004

A super-thief from the future called Warp travels back in time to steal a priceless antique. But when the Teen Titans show up to stop him, the villain tries to escape. And in a last-ditch effort to catch the crook, Starfire is pulled into his Time Vortex and accidentally hurled 20 years into the future. There, she makes a disturbing discovery: In this future, her friends are not friends anymore, and the Titans are history. Can Starfire stop Warp and fix the past so that this grim future never happens?

Comments?

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[Aquagirl]

This was a great episode I was glad to see the Titans as Adults and Nightwing was very hunky

[Parallax]

An okay episode. Not much on Nightwing. Old Raven did kick arse, though. ***

[Crambam]

Does this mean that the Robin on TT is actually a younger Dick Grayson? It could make some sense. Robin on the Batman cartoon was older than this TT version, but he had been Robin for some time.

It doesn't make sense for Tim Drake to become Nightwing after Dick Grayson. Even if he were to stop being Robin, Dick is Nightwing, and I doubt he would want to just copy Dick's life.

It now makes sense how this version of Robin can look older than the ROTJ Robin--it's not Tim Drake.

[Hey_yu]

Probably the best episode of Teen Titans so far, thumbs up. Though just curious, is Teen Titans loosely related to any of the other DC animated universes such as B:B or JU? Cauze I'm guessing this Robin is Tim Drake, and in the B:B movie "Return of the Joker", we all know what happens to him...

Edit: I know Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing, but I think it's possible Tim Drake also inherits the mantle...then again, I guess we really don't know which Robin this is, I'm guessing this will always remain a "Which state is Springfield located in the Simpsons" question... (I still think Springfield is located in Illinois!)

[Animation Otaku]

I doubt it's Tim Drake since Dick Grayson was the one who grew up and became Nightwing after all. And I think it takes place in DCAU continuity a few years before Batman: TAS.

Like I said on the CN forum, this was a great episode. Seeing Nightwing was just awesome.

[John6777]

This future makes no sense. I hated this episode . I liked Season 1 and i hated this episode. First of all Nightwing looked way too young to be 36. Lets not forget the future had no people in it at all. Where are the people of the city. I am still not convinced it's Dick. If they showed a young boy who took over Robin's suit then i would assume its Tim and i would think it's dick but no questions have been answered. If anything it just made more questions.

2/5 stars

[Alba Aulbath]

It was an okay episode. The set-up was cute, because Starfire is initially cute and you just can't help that. I could feel her frustration as no one replied to her friendship festival, even though Robin assured it was just a little argument between them all. Personally, even one argument can make you feel like crap, so I could understand Starfire's concern.

Her being in the future was interesting, but it just made me feel like there was something missing. You got to see how each character has changed, and just exactly which Robin we're having on TT (this apparently being Dick Grayson, which makes sense). But, seeing the attitudes of Cyborg, Raven, and Beast Boy, it makes me wonder what exactly happened to them to make them all kind of screwed up. The way future-Cyborg first talked to Starfire, it made me think "maybe it wasn't just because of her disappearance that caused all of this". BB seemed really nervous ("It isn't to keep me in--it's to keep them OUT!") and Raven was just screwed up. I understand you can't delve into Raven's mind too much because of her really dark origin, but it made me wonder...

Just what happened to them? Made me feel unsatisfied.

But, I did like the episode, and seeing Nightwing was a real treat, especially since this has confirmed which Robin we're having right now, and it makes sense as to who it is.

The ending was cute, at least, and was a fine conclusion to everything. Nice, simple way to start off the season.

Three and a half stars.

[David the Joker]

l agree this was deffinally the best Teen Titans episode, thus far. It was acually serious, and showed the Titans as adults. We all now know that Robin is Dick Grayson, since he became Nightwing. Finally, we have a understanding that Titans is in another universe from the other Batman/Justice League shows, which in my opinion is a relief. Seeing Nightwing was great, but still I miss Loren Lester voicing the part. I hope if Nightwing showed up in Justice League that Loren Lester does the voice. Even though Warp was (I think) created for the series, he was a very serious villian, and reminded me of Vandal Savage and other characters who seem to be in every timeline. I enjoyed Beast Boy's comical lines such as, "I'm going to be bald?" and "Man, your lucky", since Robin got long hair and he is bald. Deffinally 5 stars, hopefully Robin will turn into Nightwing during the shows run, to make the show more on an adult path.

[Aquagirl]

It's obvious it's Dick seeing as he dawned the Nightwing Costume and not Tim

[Frank Castle]

I really liked this episode. Hope the rest of the season is just as good.:)

[Nick K.]

It was a good ep, but had some bad parts, like teh beginning with happy whatever day. I get they need to be friends, dont cheese it up with making Starfire seem like a retard... Other than that i feel this season will be good, with bad aspects in it.

[Krypton710]

I really liked this episode it started out humorus then got very dramatic very fast, it's interesting how big of an impact Starfire has had on the team. As for my stance on the whole Teen Titans Robin becoming Nightwing thing, look I've had to many continuity headaches caused from Batman Beyond and JL (trying to put the two in the same timeline:confused: ) so IMO....a wizard did it.

[Captain Sarcasm]

Her being in the future was interesting, but it just made me feel like there was something missing.

[Snippy]

Just what happened to them? Made me feel unsatisfied.
That's what the rest of the season's for. They've set'em up, and now they'll start knockin'em back.

[Doomsday]

This future makes no sense. I hated this episode . I liked Season 1 and i hated this episode. First of all Nightwing looked way too young to be 36. Lets not forget the future had no people in it at all. Where are the people of the city. I am still not convinced it's Dick. If they showed a young boy who took over Robin's suit then i would assume its Tim and i would think it's dick but no questions have been answered. If anything it just made more questions. 2/5 stars First theres no way the TT Robin could be Tim, if so then Robin would be just a guy with no suit and wouldn't fight. With no doubt this Robin is now a young Dick. HE's the only Robin that becomes Nightwing after giving up being Robin.

Now for the episode. It seemed to have the longest beganning ever. Cyborg, Raven, and Nightwing didn't look or sound 20 years older. It was great to see them fighting but I knew later in the episode something was going to happen to split them up and later get them back together. Now why the city looked like it was empty, it seemed like somethign destroy the city and everyone left.

It was great to see what happen to all the lil heros. Beast boy thinking he's all tough, tried to stop crime by himself but didn't do as well as he wanted and his self asteam got hurt by that. Raven had a mental breakdown by losing her friends that which was the only thing keeping her mind at balance. Cyborg was not as good as the others. He could always fixxed himself whenever he wanted but I guess he wanted to spend his life making stuff now his friends are gone. Sort of sad. Raven had the biggest change by just working with Batman for awhile then go be a hero by himself but unlike Beast boy, he succeeded. Going by the name of Nightwing and becoming a much better fighter. If he fought Slade then, he wouldn't have that much of a problem with him.

The story was a simple hero team breaks up with the twist of showing what they became after they sperate. This was a very good episode. It's the third best episode so far, right below Apprentice and Masks. I give it four stars.

[BlackoutCreature]

As ive said on other threads, its still possible that the Titans Robin is Tim Drake. Maybe Dick passed on the mantle to him for some reason or another. Maybe its a different universe and Dick Grayson doesnt exist in this one. Honestly the question hasnt been answered, and probably wont be until Robin just says "Im Dick" or "Im Tim". Im not taking sides one way or the other, but really nothings been confirmed.

That said, howd Cyborg make it out of the Tower at the end of the episode? He couldnt fix himself in 20 years and yet manages to do it in 5 minutes because his eye blinks? I get the feeling the writers wanted to throw in a "by disconnecting myself im slowly dying, but it was worth it to see my friends again" line, but it got cut for one reason or another.

Beyond that, great episode. 4*'s.

[Hey_yu]

Well, we already know this episode's future can't happen for 2 reasons:

1. Starfire already said the relic that he tried to steal was not lost to history since she brought it back.

2. In that future, Starfire never came back after disappearing into the wormhole, but of course as we see at the end of this episode, she does come back (duh) :p

Therefore, I look at this episode as a "What if?" or "Elseworld", with a different "Nightwing" that could be Tim Drake, could be Dick Grayson, etc.

[JohnStewart-GL]

likes:
Beast Boy's dialogue
future Raven
Future Beast Boy
Warp

Dislikes:
future Nightwing- He looked too young. everyone else look like they were in their 30's or 40s but he look like he was in his late teens to mid 20s.

didnt understand how future Cy left the tower

didn't understand how Star getting lost in time affected the world so much.

shoulda been 2 parts.

[Aquagirl]

Curse you Tim Drake Fans!!!!! *waves fist angrily* still cant beleive :evil:

Dick fans we know the Truth :D

[randomguy]

Everybody loves the underdog, don't they?

The guy with less experience than you might think necessary. The guy with serious baggage. The guy whose mettle is untested. Rocky Balboa. Peter Parker. Whatever their name, we cheer for them. What's the one thing they have over the opposition? Simple. Moxy. Gumption. Passion. Energy.

And such is the case with a curious comparison in the world of animation. A series called "Justice League" waltzes onto cable with the finest pedigree imaginable. It's creative team singlehandedly reinvented animation. Reinvented scores of characters. Won Emmys, gained millions of fans. It stars some of the most recognizable figures in the entire world. It is based on one of the longest running and most enjoyable comic books of all time.

Another series debuts shortly after. It, too, is based on a beloved comic book. Its lead visionary certainly has the necessary experience. Yet its approach is unique, its character designs at first a little peculiar. It's more comedic than many would like. It's drawn from the stylistic cloth of another country. The fans are more than a little weary. It's called "Teen Titans".

The latter utterly destroys the former.

It's a peculiarity, to say the least. This, of course, is not a knock against Justice League. It's a fun show that I watch nearly every night, write about incessantly, and enjoy a good deal. And yet "Teen Titans" easily trumps it in most every way.

"How Long Is Forever" demonstrates this finely. The dialogue is sharp and funny. The banter flies in a hilarious manner, yet never stretches believability- these characters are very clearly slightly self-absorbed young teenagers. Teenagers who just happen to be superpowered. The animation is smooth, detailed, and wonderfully evocative. You can't help but shiver as Starfire wanders across the snow-covered future. Explosions sizzle and practically leap off the screen. Fights are choreographed with a fluidity that would make the Wachowskis blush. When Nightwing attacks Warp, the ensuing scene is fantasically fast, action-packed, and exciting. Sensations of flight and movement are conveyed perfectly. The best stylistic tricks of anime are employed only when appropriate, and never to excess.

The characters are excellenty drawn- they have well-developed personalities and behavioral tendencies, and they don't betray them. Starfire is as bubbly and loving as ever, Robin stoic and determined even as Nightwing. Raven withdraws tragically from the friends she was scarcely able to admit she appreciated in the first place. Cyborg is suprisingly reflective. And poor Beast Boy is mocked as a circus act, in a genuinely sad little scene. Oh, and he's bald. Guy just can't catch a break.

The story is clever, taking a tried-and-true concept and changing it just enough so that it feels familiar even as it's fresh. There's bit of sadness, darkness, and drama in the plot, but the series doesn't betray its general atmosphere- it's still the same lighthearted, essentially goofy affair that it's always been.

And that's what it all comes down to. This is fun viewing. As Maxie Zeus so aptly puts it, it's ice cream. If "Justice League" is true to the letter of comic books, than "Teen Titans" is true to the spirit. It brings a smile to your face in the same way that a classic, child-friendly Gardner Fox JSA tale might. It doesn't need to make its characters angsty or its conflicts apocalyptic. It isn't weighted down with the baggage of continuity, and it's not given to throwing out needless cameos or guest appearances (although Nightwing's appearance is a gratifying "Holy Crap!" moment of the highest order). Whenever I watch it, I can instantly recall the days when my uncle would loan me old issues of The New Teen Titans, and I would read them under the covers at night, grin plastered firmly across my face. That same spirit permeates the TV series, with things updated just enough to appeal to newcomers. Everything old is new again. No wonder kids love it.

And to think, it's only the first episode of the second season. I'd say the future is promising indeed.

[Doomsday]

Curse you Tim Drake Fans!!!!! *waves fist angrily* still cant beleive :evil:

Dick fans we know the Truth :D I know, whatever happens those fans will say that the TT robin is Tim. Even if he says that his name is Dick, the fans will makeup something like no he's just covering his true identity. They can believe in whatever they want, its wrong but they can still believe in it being Tim.

[GameBrain]

IMHO, Robin is neither Tim Drake nor is he Dick Grayson. Robin is simply Robin in the same way that the other Titans don't have an alternate identity behind their superhero personas. Trying to connect this show to the rest of the DCAU seems to me a futile effort. The show wasn't written for it, and all the big guns behind it are opposed to the idea (of particular note is Paul Dini, who if I'm not mistaken, wrote this episode). I see this thing as a sort of JL Lite, a frozen dinner to be enjoyed for its pure convenience. Sure, it may not be filling, and it may not satisfy the discerning palette of an experienced gourmet, but that's not the point. The point is that you get hot food quick without the need for a library of cookbooks, a spice rack, and a chain of overpriced restaurants. So I say, let go of your precious continuity this once and allow the show to be what it is. A fun lighthearted superhero show that can sometimes be insightful and may feature some familiar faces.

Wow, it really is a Warner Brothers cartoon!

[Duke Psychology]

excellent way to start this new "season." this episode was well acted. it's amazing how they don't take themselves seriously, than all of a sudden, do. Nightwing with long hair.....bet girls loved that.:p

[Roger Smith]

Roger Smith will fight the fans!
Me:you will not PAST!
Fans:grable! Robin is Dick!
Me:Slashes his trout at them!

[Barb Gordon]

A delightful episode. I always love watching Starfire, she has been done so well in this series, so cute and innocent. This will now and forever be one of my fav episodes if only for it having a Nightwing. "a" being the keyword there. I don't care about getting analytical over WHO it was that is behind that mask, I'm just thrilled beyond anything they had him! The storyline was good, and very warming overall. Not overly flashy. The into the future story has been done before, but this didn't get too blah and boring. Raven was especially fantastic in this possible "future". But like I said, I'm still thrilled over Nightwing. No more mullet! Thank god....

~Barb

[king_k4life]

Does this mean that the Robin on TT is actually a younger Dick Grayson? It could make some sense. Robin on the Batman cartoon was older than this TT version, but he had been Robin for some time.

It doesn't make sense for Tim Drake to become Nightwing after Dick Grayson. Even if he were to stop being Robin, Dick is Nightwing, and I doubt he would want to just copy Dick's life.

It now makes sense how this version of Robin can look older than the ROTJ Robin--it's not Tim Drake.
Exacly what I was saying. It Was the best TT ephisode yet and it proved that The Robin on TT was Nightwing.I marked out big time I can't wait for Joto Wildbeest Speedy Terra and Aqaulad to mark out TT 4 life.

[BabySealClubber]

Originally Posted by GameBrain
IMHO, Robin is neither Tim Drake nor is he Dick Grayson. Robin is simply Robin in the same way that the other Titans don't have an alternate identity behind their superhero personas. Trying to connect this show to the rest of the DCAU seems to me a futile effort.
I agree with this sentiment, however I do think the writers or artists are subtlely paying homage to past comic works. Did anyone else notice that the punks at Beastboy's freakshow attraction bore a striking resemblance to the punks of the Dark Knight Returns book or the imagined Batman story from the Legends of the Dark Knight episode? Or that later, Starfire seemed to locate Nightwing in an abandoned Batcave complete with costume display tubes? Perhaps it is the Frank Miller future that Starfire did travel to. Okay, I know there is no connection between the TT Robin and the Batman, but perhaps the creators are trying to place some references into the background in order to appease those who can't disconnect for the other animated or DCU histories.

Either way, I think this was a pretty good episode and it was fun to see Raven in her white cloak again.

Best Line: (Future Beast looks at Nightwing's hair) "That's so unfair."

[FALLEN ELDOR]

I missed the first ten minutes, but was able the catch up pretty quickly, a sign of good writing IMO. I liked seeing Raven in her white robe and Robin all grown up into Nightwing. The kids seen mocking beat boy resembled those of the dark night returns, that was a nice touch IMO.

I love episodes like this one, the action and team interaction is what keeps me watching, I love the serious episodes!

[tucsoncoyote]

Tucsoncoyote here:coyote:

Alright After seeing How Long is forever?, I have to Agree with this last statement made by Randomguy.. first off the show itself has a lot of fun energy in it.. and for a show that is supposedly Candy, this is very yummy candy indeed..

The Episode How Long is Forever? really is more of a "What if " story and it deals around Starfire..(Hey what would happen if one of the Justice League Folks were sent into the Future.. (Hint Hint : Hello, we're talking the JL Episode Hereafter)

but I digress in this case Starfire ends up 20 Years (and no distance ) from her current Location after she sacks the Villainous (is he villainous?) Warp and tosses both herself and Warp into a Time Wormhole.

of course you might think that Like The Flash In A Better World, Starfire isn't the Glue that keeps the Titans together? Well in a way she is...

You see a Run down Cyborg (who can't even leave without a Powercell, a Balding Beastboy (who does more tricks then Lassie) A mentally Disturbed Raven, and of course Nightwing! :eek:

add to that the hard cold truth about what did happen and waht could have happened, and all of a Sudden the episode goes from a "What if" to a Moralistic Storyline that is equivalent to A Christmas Carol, with Poor ol' Starfire being the Ebeneezer Scrooge Character, but with a real half twist here..

she still after 20 years has her friends.. even though they drifted apart..

but all in all this episode says a lot.. and it shows that even time is a factor in a lot of this story, and it's Decisions that are and are not made that make this story truly a godsend..

If this is Candy, then it's very nutritious Candy.. with enough punch to cut through any barrier, be it time, or space..

Frankly at the end, the whole thing comes out alright and the group comes full circle.. but it lets you see a different side to "what if".. and it's not a what if but more of a what would happen if Starfire ceased to exist, after a certain point..(Again refering back to A Better World on the JL side of the coin, as if Flash Didn't exist!)

all in all this episode was a bit more cerebral and in fact I give it really good marks for it's ideas..

overall score I give it is a 4.5 out of 5.(or a 9 out of 10) .(It's not perfect, but then agian are Time travel stories ever perfect?):D

[Obscure]

Oh my.

I have no idea why I watched How Long is Forever? with such low expectations, but... *Blink, blanch* This was one of the more serious episodes and it had my eyes glued to the screen. Except during comercial breaks. I hate those. *Ahem* How Long is Forever just blew me away, even if the intro made my eyeball twitch in its socket. For a moment I was predicting they'd do a Christmas episode, but whew, it never came true. :sweat:

The future was pretty morbid, wasn't it? For a while, I was expecting to see everyone dead, and as the episode went on, my heart started to go out to the Titans; something I've never done for any episode of Teen Titans. Their alternate universe selves...well, I pitied them. Beast Boy became a one man circus, too afraid to come out of his cage...and he's balding. Seeing Cyborg with the dead, black machinery made me reconsider what I thought in The Sum of All His Parts. Black is definitely not a good look on Cyborg, especially after coming to associate blue with being 'alive' and black with being..dead. Raven just creeped me out. I couldn't really hear her too well, but it sounded like she was a bit...dillusional. Robin became Nightwing, and the Dick vs. Tim debate goes on.

Still, I'm not really convinced it was just Starfire leaving that made the Titans break up. While her being gone might have caused some tension between the Titans for a while, I think there might have been something else that made the Titans go crazy-whacko. *Smashes head into keyboard* And trying to figure out what happened is driving me mad.

I'll give a 4.5/5 stars.

On the voice thing-they probably didn't change it because it would confuse the kids or something. Meh.

[lostrune]

It was an OK ep. Just because it's more serious than usual TT doesn't automatically give it a pass for me; it still has to execute. I thought it became a bit too preachy, pounding our heads repeatedly about the value of friendship. :shrug:

1. Hmmm... not another time travel ep. JL did it with Superman's "death." Static Shock+Batman Beyond will do it in a week or two.

2. It's funny how Beast Boy could be bald when he easily transforms into furry animals. :D

3. It's amazing how an "obsolete" tech (his words) like Cyborg could fuse and operate tech so modern it hasn't even been invented yet - from the future! :rolleyes:
And here he couldn't even fuse his body with the latest batteries.

4. From the next ep previow, I thought maybe Beast Boy could slip off his neck collar by turning into a slimy worm or something. We'll see....

[Anarky]

a nice "What If?" episode

but the pieces don't fit. the enitre city of _______ was laid to waste and left to rot? Where's the Superman, the Justice League, where's the government?

And I guess we saw Lil' Rob and Lil' Don heckling Beast Man

at least we now know that TT Robin is Dick Grayson.
And the good news is that he's more likely to be connected to the upcoming "The Batman" than "Batman: The Animated Series".

and what's with Warp? Dude looked like Marvel's Wizard

[Crambam]

Judging by this being Dick Grayson, 20 years later would be maybe 10 years after where JLA is now. So there are no BB issues. You have to figure that Tim Drake is moving on with his life, and Dick is still Nightwing.

And the future we saw is not the future as it will be. It is the future that would have been had Starfire not returned. The second they sent Starfire back, that timeline was wiped out.

Still, this episode did seem to clearly establish that we are dealing with Dick Grayson--something I really like.

[Animation Otaku]

but the pieces don't fit. the enitre city of _______ was laid to waste and left to rot? Where's the Superman, the Justice League, where's the government?With this taking place before Batman:TAS even started, it's possible that happened before Superman had even left home, let alone formed the Justice League.

[Nick K.]

With this taking place before Batman:TAS even started, it's possible that happened before Superman had even left home, let alone formed the Justice League.

Or its possible the JL doesnt exist in TT's alternate Continuity... :rolleyes:

[king_k4life]

Animation Otaku point was good.

[Roger Smith]

o_o if its before BTAS
how the hel lthey created Cyborg =)

[Godzillatron]

Warp - he's in the comics - he was a member of the Brotherhood of Evil (not to be confused with Magneto's team at Marvel), the foes of first the Doom Patrol and then the Teen Titans. I do not know much about him, the only comic I read with him in it was the JUSTICE LEAGUE ADVENTURES issue where the League does a sting operation to catch a bunch of super-villains (and even then it wasn't actually him, just the Flash impersonating him).

As for the identity of Robin, I'm defiantly leaning towards this not being part of the regular DCUA universe. The only possibility that it is if Drake inherited the Nightwing mantle from Grayson.

[Supremus]

What the...???? I really liked this episode. I stopped watching TT about 4 episodes into season 1, as I thought it was just <evil swear-word>. I don't know why I decided to give season 2 a chance, but I am glad I did.

Apart from the usual silly, wacky, happy-nonsense in the beginning, this was a solid episode. It didn't really have too many big highlights, but it was pretty entertaining, the animation was really nice, and the story had a nice flow, which I thought was a problem in the few season 1 episodes I watched. The semi-serious tone certainly also helped a lot.

[Anon190]

Hello. I'm new. ^^ My name's Anon.

This episode made me cry. It honestly was depressing; Cyborg being confined to the Tower, Beast(boy?) being pelted with snowballs, and Raven...-shudder- That was creepy. Nightwing was a treat, but to me, he wasn't the center of the episode. The Titans fell into...how to put this...disrepair. It just made me sad. T-T But it was a beautiful episode nonetheless.

I firmly believe that Teen Titans wasn't made for little kids; serious episodes like this and Apprentice further prove my point. Sure, episodes like Car Trouble and Mad Mod can be watched by little kids, but to get the entire feel of the show, I believe you have to be older than at least nine...

Anyway, back to the episode: Lovely, with a very intriguing plot. Four and a half stars.

[screw on head]

i gotta admit i've loved all of david slack's eps so far, he's a great writer. overall, it was well done though, gotta give credit to everyone involved, this had a atmosphere to it overall. the music was awesome, it really hit all the right emotional cords, wtg on that front. storywise, seeing cyborg make his entrance, dragging those crude powercords, it was very creepy, i liked that. beast boy as a circus act, how appropriate. i like how consumed raven was, as much as she tries to seem independant, she really does need her friends. i liked nightwing's entrance, really well done. he wasn't quite the nightwing i remember, as he shouldn't be, given the circumstances, but he worked well though. i see tt as its own universe, so i'm not too interested in thinking about robin's identity or any of the other debatable aspects of this wacky teen titans universe. it's its own world as far as i'm concerned.

[JTurner954]

I just finished watching it and I'm very happy with the results. TT gets too childish at times so an episode like this was very satisfying.

I had a problem with this Robin since he did not feel like the Robin I know from BTAS or the comics (Cyborg acted more like Robin than Robin did.) But after seeing him as Nightwing, it makes more sense to me. One of the things I noticed in B:TAS is how different Grayson acted once he did become Nightwing. There would be a wisecrack every once in a while as Robin;however,his personality changed as Nightwing and his "wisecracks" (in a postive sense) become like "cheap shots" (cynical). So maybe they are telling me that he is more aggresive when he is away from Batman, regardless of which character he is. If so, then I'm all for it (though I wish they didn't get the VA from Mission Hill to voice him.)

I'm giving this episode a perfect score. I hope they keep up the good work by giving us an origin episode and decreasing the use of the anime expressions (when excessive, it hurts the quality of the show.)

[Ian]

Meh. Very very promising first couple of acts, but the final act just fizzled. The overall premise was sound, and the execution was excellent , but the very quick and tidy resolution prevents the episode from achieving greatness. The storyline could have easily used another episode to flesh out the episode.

Pros:


Starfire's Mumbo alarm clock
The entire first act
Warps' fatalist philosophy, which makes him an interesting "villain".
The dark fate of the Future Titans
Cons


The ending was too quick and tidy.
The future needs more fleshing out.

Score: 3 out of 5.


Oh, and I liked Starfire's alarm clock.

The latter utterly destroys the former.


It's a peculiarity, to say the least. This, of course, is not a knock against Justice League. It's a fun show that I watch nearly every night, write about incessantly, and enjoy a good deal. And yet "Teen Titans" easily trumps it in most every way.
Word!

[Maxie Zeus]

I guess I'm going to have to be the odd man out this time. I wasn't impressed.

Oh, there's a lot that is handsomely done. The snowy future is palpably cold and depressing, and the vignettes of the future Titans (especially) Beastboy, are very poignant. The musical score is heartbreaking. And the basic idea is nice. But the character drama is misplaced.

Structurally, the story has only four parts: (1) Starfire trying to get people excited about her native festival; (2) the first fight with Warp; (3) the visit to the Titans of the future; (4) the final fight and resolution. Each sequence is diverting, but they don't build on each other. The problem is that there is no central character who changes or comes to any sort of realization.

Well, okay, yes, the other four Titans (minus Starfire) have it impressed upon them that friendship is important, but they only learn that lesson because Starfire comes back and tells them that it's important. That's not very dramatic. The one person who experiences the tragedy of seeing the future is Starfire ... and she's not the one who has to learn anything directly about friendship, because she's the one who's already convinced that it is important.

What it needs is for one of the other Titans to get trapped in the future -- Raven is the natural choice. The story would be much more powerful, and would have an actual dramatic arc, if she were the one who most stoutly resisted Starfire's festival, got a glimpse of the future, and came back and resurrected the festival. (It would also, probably, have had greater power if Raven had seen and was moved by finding the Starfire-of-the-future lonely, degraded and miserable because her friendships had fractured.)

"How Long is Forever?" is close to being a variation on Dickens' A Christmas Carol -- a character sees the future and resolves to make the present different. But it's like A Christmas Carol with Bob Cratchit (or even Tiny Tim) being given the tour. It might still be well-done, but it rather misses the point.

Three stars, all for style.

[Mister Intensity]

The problem with this episode is that the future presented didn't make much sense. The difference between this episode and other alternate future/reality DC episodes/shows like A Better World, Brave New Metropolis, Legends, and Batman Beyond is that in the scenarios in the latter you get the sense that there is more going on in than the obvious; that there is a whole history waiting to be discovered beyond the initial premise. Whereas, in How Long is Forever, Starfire disappears, the Titans breakup. There's no sense that anything else really happenned. Compared this to A Better World where the premise is that the Flash dies thus the Justice League became the Justice Lords but there was also a sense that the Flash dying was one of many events that led to the Justice Lords. You could say the same about Brave New Metropolis and the relationship between that reality and Lois's death, but you can't say the same about the Titans and "How Long..."

The future presented in "How Long..." just took everything to the extreme without any sense of thought about how the Titans arrive at their fate, as if the Titans existed in a vaccum for twenty years and they just happenned to get to the place where the story required without explanation. You could speculate what happenned but the story doesn't give you anything to work with. Personally I think Raven going out of control provided the impetus for what happens but that's speculation more based on my reading of New Teen Titans comic book history than anything the episode gave me and considering this show is aimed at an audience that wasn't around when NTT was published that's a storytelling failure. I just didn't buy the future presented in the episode. Also after being convinced that all is not well with the Titans, to have everyone get back together so easily after years of tensions at the end of episode was just too pat. I did enjoy the set-up of the story because it showed the Titans being the Titans but once the story ended up in the future the story fell apart. Really a mixed effort to start off this batch of episodes.

I'm looking forward to next week's episode because it looks like we get to go into the psyche of Beast Boy and get a sense of why he acts the way he does along with some characteristic Titans humor.

Mister Intensity

[Nick K.]

The problem with this episode is that the future presented didn't make much sense. The difference between this episode and other alternate future/reality DC episodes/shows like A Better World, Brave New Metropolis, Legends, and Batman Beyond is that in the scenarios in the latter you get the sense that there is more going on in than the obvious; that there is a whole history waiting to be discovered beyond the initial premise. Whereas, in How Long is Forever, Starfire disappears, the Titans breakup. There's no sense that anything else really happenned. Compared this to A Better World where the premise is that the Flash dies thus the Justice League became the Justice Lords but there was also a sense that the Flash dying was one of many events that led to the Justice Lords. You could say the same about Brave New Metropolis and the relationship between that reality and Lois's death, but you can't say the same about the Titans and "How Long..."

The future presented in "How Long..." just took everything to the extreme without any sense of thought about how the Titans arrive at their fate, as if the Titans existed in a vaccum for twenty years and they just happenned to get to the place where the story required without explanation. You could speculate what happenned but the story doesn't give you anything to work with. Personally I think Raven going out of control provided the impetus for what happens but that's speculation more based on my reading of New Teen Titans comic book history than anything the episode gave me and considering this show is aimed at an audience that wasn't around when NTT was published that's a storytelling failure. I just didn't buy the future presented in the episode. Also after being convinced that all is not well with the Titans, to have everyone get back together so easily after years of tensions at the end of episode was just too pat. I did enjoy the set-up of the story because it showed the Titans being the Titans but once the story ended up in the future the story fell apart. Really a mixed effort to start off this batch of episodes.

I'm looking forward to next week's episode because it looks like we get to go into the psyche of Beast Boy and get a sense of why he acts the way he does along with some characteristic Titans humor.

Mister Intensity

Id have to disagree. With the dissapearance of Starfire, something mustve happened that really affected the TT, and without her there they had a dif future. Since shell be there shell prob change an event this season to make sure that future never happens. Also, TT futures wouldnt relate to other DCAU shows futures cause theyre not in continuity with eachother and dont bare anything similar but the DC name.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

This episode pretty much convinces me that Robin is Dick Grayson and not Tim Drake. And that the adventures in this series takes place a few years before the adventures in "Batman: The Animated Series." Perhaps he was 18 in BTAS, which was in 1992, that being the case he'd be about 13-15 in this show which would put this show back in the '80s. That would be weird, but conceivable. I'm 90% convinced that this is the case. But I'm 99% sure that Robin is Dick Grayson. And to think, everybody would chop me down every time I said that I figured Robin would be Dick. I felt it was obvious though since it would have been stupid in my opinion to have Starfire be the same age as Tim Drake. And all of the rest of the Titans for that matter. Anyway, pretty good episode. I'm still unhappy with the cartooniness though...I mean for Pete's uncle's mommy's sake, when's it gonna end...it's just stupid. This is Teen Titans...not Plastic Man. I really wish they'd cut that crap out. Turning DC Comics characters into the Powerpuff Girls is just wrong.

PS: Did this remind anybody of the Justice League "Hereafter" episode.

[BeastBoyWonder]

While the episode's introduction was moderately amusing, it smelt of the typical "Titans get into a conflict with each other and then resolve it" motif. Thankfully, an innovative use of what is usually the tired device of time travel allowed the episode to become a compelling introduction to the second season that's more in line with the grimmer tone of the later first season episodes. The future presented in "How Long is Forever?" takes an interesting peek at what the Titans could become were they to all fall apart. While Robin's point about their infighting being nothing more than typical roomate squabbling is completely rational, what the episode really does is demonstrate why all of the Titans need each other. However, the situation in the possible future is plausible because the difference between the two scenarios is that the remaining Titans didn't have a set purpose in the alternate "reality", with their feeble excuses merely masking the real reason why they were each in such a decrepit and withering state.

Beast Boy doesn't have to be a fat, balding circus animal, Cyborg doesn't have to be falling apart while chained to his power cell, Raven doesn't need to go nuts, and Robin/Nightwing could very well end up in a situation other than completely alone. The physical deficencies are merely a manifestation of the lack of drive in most of the "future Titans". Without the support from friends and a purpose to work for, it seems only logical that the Titans would wither away into obscurity. This very well may be a negative or depressing outlook on how people function, but it probably has some degree of truth to it. In fact, the future of the Titans could be pretty damn cool. Aspects of the "future Titans," such as "white Raven" and Nightwing were drawn from the comics in which the Titans grew both physically and mentally throughout the course of its run, and this gradual growth would be an interesting element to see on the show as well.

When combined, the little details and small touches can take an interesting premise and turn it into something fantastic, which was definately true of this episode. The humorous visual tricks such as the shift from night to day in the episode's opening remain. Much like the "dance music" from "Sisters," the background music that Robin was listening to added another level to the immersive nature of the episode. When Nightwing called the other Titans with their communicator, the score that accompanied the scene really helped to give it a very bittersweet feel and was probably one of the most beautiful musical sequences of the show. The animation and fight scenes were top notch, particularly the way the first fight with Warp tied into the last, and the 'future' character designs were very believable. While Nightwing's voice felt 'off' at times, the rest of the Titans' future voices felt appropriately "adult". Given that the dialogue for Scott Menville's "future character" seemed to be much more demanding, this is understandable.

On the subject of Nightwing... he was just *cool*! The character design strongly resembles the Nightwing design from 'The New Batman Adventures' because Glen Murakami probably had an involvement in designing both animated incarnations of the popular comic figure. This Nightwing design lacks the sharp feel of the TNBA Nightwing design, especially in the logo, but the lack of the mullet and his incredible movement and attack pattern more than makes up for it. While I'm not even going to begin to get into the mess of the "continuity debate" about whether "Teen Titans" is part of the rest of the "DC Animated Universe," (because at this point the show appears to be in a completely different universe), the point of the 'Dick Grayson' character is that he's focused, determined, and obsessive like Batman, but can have a good time at it and enjoy himself at the same time without getting consumed. This attitude was definately shown by this animated incarnation of Nightwing, who was just the right blend of focus, optimism, and fun. Robin's line at the end and seeming awe of his future identity reveals just how much he loves "playing the hero." This episode was a fantastic start to the second season, and hopefully the pattern of stellar episodes will continue.

"So... <i>Nightwing</i>, huh?"
-Robin

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

On the subject of Nightwing... he was just *cool*! The character design strongly resembles the Nightwing design from 'The New Batman Adventures' because Glen Murakami probably had an involvement in designing both animated incarnations of the popular comic figure. This Nightwing design lacks the sharp feel of the TNBA Nightwing design, especially in the logo, but the lack of the mullet and his incredible movement and attack pattern more than makes up for it. While I'm not even going to begin to get into the mess of the "continuity debate" about whether "Teen Titans" is part of the rest of the "DC Animated Universe," (because at this point the show appears to be in a completely different universe)
It's either in a different universe or, as I said in my previous post: in a different time period. Meaning taking place a few years before "Batman: The Animated Series."

[TOM 002]

This episode pretty much convinces me that Robin is Dick Grayson and not Tim Drake. And that the adventures in this series takes place a few years before the adventures in "Batman: The Animated Series." Perhaps he was 18 in BTAS, which was in 1992, that being the case he'd be about 13-15 in this show which would put this show back in the '80s. That would be weird, but conceivable. I'm 90% convinced that this is the case. But I'm 99% sure that Robin is Dick Grayson. And to think, everybody would chop me down every time I said that I figured Robin would be Dick.
Riddle me this JL Legion...

If this series were to take place BEFORE "Batman: the Animated Series", then it would not explain Robin's comment about already having a "father", complete with fluttering bats. This was when Robin was forced to work with Slade as an apprentice.

Let's also add onto this by finding that Dick Grayson was was working in the circus in BTAS and was probably the specified ages, if not younger, that you so assume.

One must also realize that in no way, shape, or form could Dick Grayson have been Robin BEFORE Bruce Wayne discovered him and made him his ward. There's no way that a kid from the circus could make a titanium cape, an extending rod, Robin-a-rangs, and other such equipment without the help of old Batsy boy.

So given these pieces of evidence, do you still think that the Teen Titans were formed BEFORE Batman was aware of Robin's existence?

I...think...not...

[BeastBoyWonder]

It's either in a different universe or, as I said in my previous post: in a different time period. Meaning taking place a few years before "Batman: The Animated Series."

Yeah, it could very well precede BTAS... that's one of the possibilities that I had rolled around in my head prior to the airing of "How Long is Forever?", which is why I said that at this point all evidence seems to indicate that its an alternate universe, although that could change in the future... the Nightwing designs are very similar, after all. Still, this is all probably more relevant to the other threads devoted to the issue which was why I tried to comment on it as little as possible.

EDIT: Merged post


Riddle me this JL Legion...

If this series were to take place BEFORE "Batman: the Animated Series", then it would not explain Robin's comment about already having a "father", complete with fluttering bats. This was when Robin was forced to work with Slade as an apprentice.

Let's also add onto this by finding that Dick Grayson was was working in the circus in BTAS and was probably the specified ages, if not younger, that you so assume.

One must also realize that in no way, shape, or form could Dick Grayson have been Robin BEFORE Bruce Wayne discovered him and made him his ward. There's no way that a kid from the circus could make a titanium cape, an extending rod, Robin-a-rangs, and other such equipment without the help of old Batsy boy.

So given these pieces of evidence, do you still think that the Teen Titans were formed BEFORE Batman was aware of Robin's existence?

I...think...not...

I think what JL Legion means is that the series could precede the events that occurred in Batman: TAS, and not neccessarily Dick's adoption of the Robin role. Remember, Robin was nearly an adult when the series debut. The stuff about the technology and all that, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter...

[TacoHunter]

You know, I never thought about TT being before the Batman Animated series all together. Grayson was already starting college when the series started, so it does make sense why Robin is so young in TT. But that wouldn't really explain why he's all angsty and such an ass. He didn't get that way until after years of hanging around Batman. But, I don't know anymore, its too hard to tell.

[Mister Intensity]

Id have to disagree. With the dissapearance of Starfire, something mustve happened that really affected the TT, and without her there they had a dif future. Since shell be there shell prob change an event this season to make sure that future never happens. Also, TT futures wouldnt relate to other DCAU shows futures cause theyre not in continuity with eachother and dont bare anything similar but the DC name.
I didn't mention anything about continuity in my post. All I did was compare "How Long is Forever" to other time travel and alternate reality episodes in DC related shows (notice that nowhere in my post did I say DCAU) to point out why I felt "How Long is Forever" didn't work as well as other episodes with a similiar premise.

[nightwing_38116]

As ive said on other threads, its still possible that the Titans Robin is Tim Drake. Maybe Dick passed on the mantle to him for some reason or another. Maybe its a different universe and Dick Grayson doesnt exist in this one. Honestly the question hasnt been answered, and probably wont be until Robin just says "Im Dick" or "Im Tim". Im not taking sides one way or the other, but really nothings been confirmed.
Nightwing is Dick Grayson. There's not much room for argument on that.

[Supernovametalstar]

I give this episode 4and1/2 stars. I liked seeing the future versions of the other Titans, I liked the beginning with Starfire's friendship day, and for once, the ending to a time travel episode didn't make my brain hurt trying to figure out timelines and other watchamajigs.

The only thing that I was disappointed in was the low framrate in the second part of the episode. It looked like it was animated normally, but they slowed it down to fill time, which always looks bad.

[Knight]

Nightwing is Dick Grayson. There's not much room for argument on that.
Some would disagree with you on that. I find it a stretch for Tim to turn out as Nightwing since that's never been his character. I think the whole purpose of showing Nightwing in the future was the creators way of saying "Hey he's Dick" without actually saying his name due to the whole " no secret id thing" to me its him but that's my own interpretation based on the info we were given.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Riddle me this JL Legion...

If this series were to take place BEFORE "Batman: the Animated Series", then it would not explain Robin's comment about already having a "father", complete with fluttering bats. This was when Robin was forced to work with Slade as an apprentice.

Let's also add onto this by finding that Dick Grayson was was working in the circus in BTAS and was probably the specified ages, if not younger, that you so assume.

One must also realize that in no way, shape, or form could Dick Grayson have been Robin BEFORE Bruce Wayne discovered him and made him his ward. There's no way that a kid from the circus could make a titanium cape, an extending rod, Robin-a-rangs, and other such equipment without the help of old Batsy boy.

So given these pieces of evidence, do you still think that the Teen Titans were formed BEFORE Batman was aware of Robin's existence?

I...think...not...
Sorry but, that's not true, If you watch the "Batman: The Animated Series" episode "Robin's Reckoning," you'll see that Dick was only 9 when Bruce adopted him, meaning that what you said is not evidence.

Okay, let me put it on a chart:

1982: Batman adopts Dick Grayson who becomes Robin. (Robin's Reckoning)

1988: Robin joins the Teen Titans. (Teen Titans animated series)

1992: Robin is ready for college. (Batman: The Animated Series)

1997: Dick becomes Nightwing.

That's what I see. Saying that Robin mentioning that he has a father is not a contradiction because he WAS Batman's partner at that time.

[Supernovametalstar]

Why can't it be a situation where the original person retires and passed the name on to someone else? Bruce retired and Terry became Batman, when Dick stopped being Robin, Tim took up the part, so why couldn't it be a case where Dick retired and Tim is now Nightwing?

But for the sake of my sanity, I chose not to think about too much :)

[TheWonderTwits]

Wow. I haven't been the biggest fan of Teen Titans... I thought the Robin vs. Slade ep was very good, but have found most of the other ones aimed at the "younger" toon viewers---and that's totally cool. I'm just glad to see WB/DC characters rule the ratings which is insurance that the show(s) I truly love have a better chance of being around longer (like Justice League!).

Wow. I really dug this episode... Nightwing RULED. Guess that answers which Robin this is (yeah yeah yeah, I know what Batman said during the Static Shock Episode... could very well be that Static/Bat verse was meant to be during the days of the "Batman and Robin Adventures" ..or not). Anyway, I'm not getting caught up in the continuity thing--I just gotta say that the episode was really cool.

[Eldermount]

Nightwing is Dick Grayson. There's not much room for argument on that.I'll argue that.

Dick Grayson doesn't use a telescoping staff. Tim Drake does.

I think the reason why Nightwing is using the telescoping staff is that Robin is meant to be a combination of Dick Grayson and Tim Drake. Just like the Tim Drake of the Batman Animated Series is a combination of Tim Drake and Jason Todd.

Who knows, maybe they'll throw a Jason Todd reference in at some point.

[John6777]

I'll argue that.

Dick Grayson doesn't use a telescoping staff. Tim Drake does.

I think the reason why Nightwing is using the telescoping staff is that Robin is meant to be a combination of Dick Grayson and Tim Drake. Just like the Tim Drake of the Batman Animated Series is a combination of Tim Drake and Jason Todd.

Who knows, maybe they'll throw a Jason Todd reference in at some point.
I think its Jason Todd , He acts alot more like jason then Dick ever did. I think they combined all 3 robins into one. But since Jason Todd has never been seen on TV it would be much cooler to make it him.

John

[GL2k2]

I haven't look at all of the posts. And coming from a non-Teen Titans fan (neither comic nor toon), I find this episode to be the best. Better than the season finale. Why? Well, two reasons, the idea of finally seeing Nightwing and the inverse costume Raven (Which I believe was in the comic), was great. I thank God that they didn't make this villian Chronos, because I would have been pretty upset. The Titans don't need to be taking on JL level villians. They have a rich history of their own if I'm not mistaken.

I don't really want to get involved in the Nightwing/Robin issue. Personally, I'll leave my two cents by saying that this series simply does not exist in the regular DCAU continuity. Nor does Static Shock. Yes, the JL exist in both, and Static, Batman, and Superman exist in both, but they exist in their own universe. In fact, I'd go so far to say that Batman Beyond exist in this little universe as well. I think of BTAS through JL as a highly animated universe and Static, Zeta, Batman Beyond, and Teen Titans, may exist in a cartoon universe. Meaning that when Batman appears on TT or Static, it is a Batman influenced by the Batman of the high animated series, but these two are not the same. There are no connections as of yet that link continuity between these two universes other than villians appearing in the cartoon universe. JL has been careful not to reference any of these cartoon series outright. Confused? Take a moment to swallow and you may not.

There was an article written by Dwayne McDuffie that everyone should read. He pretty much broke down the entire television universe, and how they are all non-existent or something like that. Blame St. Elsewhere.

[James]

I'll argue that.

Dick Grayson doesn't use a telescoping staff. Tim Drake does.

I think the reason why Nightwing is using the telescoping staff is that Robin is meant to be a combination of Dick Grayson and Tim Drake. Just like the Tim Drake of the Batman Animated Series is a combination of Tim Drake and Jason Todd.

Great point. It could for the sake of the cartoon, that Robin has elements of all Robins - in character and in history. He may not be a distinctive person. Could be that having NW continuing to use the staff is as much as a reminder this is TT Robin (whatever his name is!!) and not BTAS Dick Grayson. Whether its Tim or Dick or neither, I think its certainly not BTAS Robin.

[All-Star 1.5]

I haven't look at all of the posts. And coming from a non-Teen Titans fan (neither comic nor toon), I find this episode to be the best. Better than the season finale. Why? Well, two reasons, the idea of finally seeing Nightwing and the inverse costume Raven (Which I believe was in the comic), was great. I thank God that they didn't make this villian Chronos, because I would have been pretty upset. The Titans don't need to be taking on JL level villians. They have a rich history of their own if I'm not mistaken.

I don't really want to get involved in the Nightwing/Robin issue. Personally, I'll leave my two cents by saying that this series simply does not exist in the regular DCAU continuity. Nor does Static Shock. Yes, the JL exist in both, and Static, Batman, and Superman exist in both, but they exist in their own universe. In fact, I'd go so far to say that Batman Beyond exist in this little universe as well. I think of BTAS through JL as a highly animated universe and Static, Zeta, Batman Beyond, and Teen Titans, may exist in a cartoon universe. Meaning that when Batman appears on TT or Static, it is a Batman influenced by the Batman of the high animated series, but these two are not the same. There are no connections as of yet that link continuity between these two universes other than villians appearing in the cartoon universe. JL has been careful not to reference any of these cartoon series outright. Confused? Take a moment to swallow and you may not.

There was an article written by Dwayne McDuffie that everyone should read. He pretty much broke down the entire television universe, and how they are all non-existent or something like that. Blame St. Elsewhere.

I belive that he was referring to the comics in that interview, but I might have to back and check. Anyway, I know that somewhere he has said that keeping continunity in between 5 or 6 shows is easier then keeping continuity with 40 plus years of comics.

As for who Robin is; I said it before and I will say it again it's a younger Dick Grayson which would explain alot of things. But Teen Titans is one of those shows that can be taken in and out of continunity without any harm being done.

[GL2k2]

I belive that he was referring to the comics in that interview, but I might have to back and check. Anyway, I know that somewhere he has said that keeping continunity in between 5 or 6 shows is easier then keeping continuity with 40 plus years of comics.

As for who Robin is; I said it before and I will say it again it's a younger Dick Grayson which would explain alot of things. But Teen Titans is one of those shows that can be taken in and out of continunity without any harm being done.
A younger Dick Grayson? Okay, but what are you going to do about that assumptions if and when the Teen Titans/Static Shock crossover happens? I think this Robin is Tim Drake to be honest with you. Just made to be a little older, perhaps than his TNBA days. But like I said, it doesn't matter because it exist in the DCAU cartoon universe.

[All-Star 1.5]

A younger Dick Grayson? Okay, but what are you going to do about that assumptions if and when the Teen Titans/Static Shock crossover happens? I think this Robin is Tim Drake to be honest with you. Just made to be a little older, perhaps than his TNBA days. But like I said, it doesn't matter because it exist in the DCAU cartoon universe.
If a crossover does happen it will be with the Teen Titans that Batman mentioned because if TT is anything like the comics then there should be more then one group with different members. And you're right it really doesn't matter.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Jeez! I can't beleive what I'm reading here...no matter how obvious things are people still refuse to look at the truth. The fact is, none of us can be 100% sure of who Robin is, but that's not the issue, we're just giving opinions. There shouldn't be flame wars about stuff like this. Oh, and it also hasn't been made clear yet wheather Teen Titans is in the same universe as the rest of the animated shows. But anyone thinking that Static Shock takes place in another universe is 100% wrong. The Justice League was on Static Shock...that's good enough proof for me! You might argue by saying that "counterparts" of the Justice League also exist in Static's universe, but don't bother using that arguement because I don't by it. That's just plain stupid. Do you realise how stupid that would be? There's enough parallel universes out there so why make more just because you can't except that fact that Static exists within the mainstream DCAU?

Anyway, back on topic, I forgot to mention that it was pretty cool to see Raven in her white costume that she had in the comics. And I wasn't really paying attention, but did they call Beast Boy "Changling" in the scenes from the future?

By the way, I think J-GL made a good point, Teen Titans is a show that can be taken in and out of continuity because it's so cartoony. After all, nobody ever seems to complain about the wrecked continuity of Looney Tunes? (Not that Teen Titans is that cartoony, I'm just trying to make a point.

[GL2k2]

JusticeLeagueLegion,

Why does it seem like people can't discuss things on these boards anymore without taking it to heart? Discussing and flaming are two different things. Just because someone doesn't put a happy face :) or the "Onyx" mad face :mad: doesn't mean we are being angry. It's just a discussion. If we were vocally talking, mayhap it wouldn't seem that way. Some people are getting a little too uptight about these discussions, but as I mentioned, I personally don't care who Robin is. Lighten up guys. If you see someone discussing something that gets out of hand with exclamation points, mad faces, frowns, and blanked out curse words, then there's room for complaints.

[John6777]

I think everyone should accept that fact that what they believe might not be what everyone else believes. You can't force your beliefs on someone. So getting mad is just childish when it comes to things like this. Let's just say I believe in one thing and you believe in something else. I mean as long as there is no solid evidence then anyone can make assumptions.

[Aquagirl]

I think everyone should accept that fact that what they believe might not be what everyone else believes. You can't force your beliefs on someone. So getting mad is just childish when it comes to things like this. Let's just say I believe in one thing and you believe in something else. I mean as long as there is no solid evidence then anyone can make assumptions.
People can force there beleifs on people if they want!! It's Dick Grayson because Dick is the only one who becamse Nightwing not TIM *sigh* thats that:D:D

[Tanooki]

i think it's about time i commented on a teen titans episode

i thought this was a good episode. i was mighty impressed with the entrance of nightwing, too (notice the avatar) the only qualm i have is he looks a lot younger than cyborg or beast boy...umm...man. who knows what raven actually looks like cause her hood was covering her face. though how did she go from being "psycho" to being sane when she reunited with her friends. cyborg must have found one last power cell lying around somewhere...pssh. right :p

on the plus side, i was intrigued by nightwing's fighting style with that rod. also the fact that starfire had to pull them altogether. perhaps they all disbanded because she wasn't around to hold the group together. HAPPY BLARFAR!!!

Falcon

[Anon190]

...the only qualm i have is [Nightwing] looks a lot younger than cyborg or beast boy...umm...man. who knows what raven actually looks like cause her hood was covering her face. though how did she go from being "psycho" to being sane when she reunited with her friends. cyborg must have found one last power cell lying around somewhere...pssh. right :p

...also the fact that starfire had to pull them altogether. perhaps they all disbanded because she wasn't around to hold the group together...

Well, he did keep in better shape than Beast(boy?) and Cyborg, so it's only natural he'd look younger. As to Raven, don't know how to answer you there. ^^; However, Cyborg said before that there were no more power cells; by disconnecting himself from the tower, he was basically sentencing himself to death, even more so by using the sonic cannon.

I think that if any of the Titans had left for a number of years, then the team would've fallen apart. Each of them balance each other out; you take out one and *poof*, there they go. Starfire was just the one who happened to leave.

[Tanooki]

Well, he did keep in better shape than Beast(boy?) and Cyborg, so it's only natural he'd look younger. As to Raven, don't know how to answer you there. ^^; However, Cyborg said before that there were no more power cells; by disconnecting himself from the tower, he was basically sentencing himself to death, even more so by using the sonic cannon.

I think that if any of the Titans had left for a number of years, then the team would've fallen apart. Each of them balance each other out; you take out one and *poof*, there they go. Starfire was just the one who happened to leave.well, when cyborg was in the tower hooked up to the machine, he was black, but when he joined the fight, he was blue. how could this have happened unless he had a power cell? this is a mystery :sweat:

on the other thought, i think all the titans have their own separate agendas to deal with and starfire is like the "friendship glue" that keeps them altogether

Falcon