Xbox 2 (aka Xbox Next) NOT Backwards Compatible?! [Archive]

Tommy Lawson

01-06-2004, 02:28 AM

Current Xbox owners may be very upset by this news being reported by IGN if true.

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/449/449146p2.html

Here is the specific part in question:

Backwards Compatibility

This one is pretty obvious. Like the PlayStation 2 plays PS One games, we want the Xbox 2 to play Xbox games. Simple as that. Not only does this dramatically increase the game library right when the console is released, but it gives gamers a cheap way to buy and play games from an older generation. Look at how successful the PS2 is. We can't think of any gamer out there that wouldn't love to have this feature. Plus, we could still keep our Xbox games out while retiring one console, cutting down on the console mess many of us have in front of our television.

Will it happen? No.
The way they clearly said "no" without any elaboration as to why makes me and many others wonder if they will cover it in tomorrow's continuing article. There's a post at the Gamefaqs board (I know, definitely not the most reliable place on Earth) by somone named "keyframe" that seems to know what's he talking about in regards to the next Microsoft console not being backwards compatible:

http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=2000100&topic=12017095&page=1

If true, this could really help change the console race in the next generation, especially if the backwards GCN compatibly is true. Microsoft's Xbox Next could easily become the "Sega Saturn 2.0" especially if they retain the name "Xbox". Can you imagine having the Xbox name associated with something that won't play the original games? Nintendo may actually reverse the trend they've had of lower console adoption rates in each generation, if they play their cards right here in the U.S. especially in regards to online gaming, but that's a big "if." I'm sure Sony will use the Playstation 1 & 2 backwards compatibility as a major selling point for the Playstation 3, assuming it's called that.

Skiptastic

01-06-2004, 12:34 PM

Okay, a couple of things.

The reason why it won't happen. The Xbox card is made by Nvidia, the next Xbox card is made by ATI. Different cards = no backwards compatibility.

Another thing. By the time Xbox 2 comes out, the Xbox will be dirt cheap, so getting those old games will be easy. Not to mention the fact that Microsoft will probably pull a Nintendo and release their best games on some sort of compilation thing for Xbox 2. That has seemed to make Nintendo people orgasm over that whole Zelda compilation thing.

One final thing: Backwards compatibility is overrated. You seem to think this will anger current Xbox owners. Why would it? They already own the Xbox and games. They should be plenty happy. Only people who hope to come in at the Xbox 2 and get the Xbox games cheaper should be angry.

Adam Tyner

01-06-2004, 01:35 PM

One final thing: Backwards compatibility is overrated.At least for me personally, I agree. For any given console I own, most of the games collect dust. There are too many great games coming out each month for me to be able to devote my attention to new releases as well as games I've owned for months/years. When the XBox Mark Deux rolls around, I'll be too busy playing its games to worry whether or not I can play long-ignored titles from the previous console.

Sketch

01-06-2004, 02:16 PM

Sucks for the Halo fanboys... they'll have to buy a new version if they sell their Xbox for Xbox 2.

Adam Tyner

01-06-2004, 02:22 PM

Emulation could easily take care of Xbox compatibility.The infeasibility of emulation on the next XBox as well as the differences between Microsoft's situation and Sony's are noted in an earlier link.

Sucks for the Halo fanboys... they'll have to buy a new version if they sell their Xbox for Xbox 2.?????

How would this not apply to any other game as well? I'm not sure I get what point it is you're trying to make.

Sketch

01-06-2004, 02:32 PM

Duke Psychology

01-06-2004, 02:34 PM

(In fact, I have to disconnect my PS2 whenever I want to play my 'Cube because my TV set only has one Component Video input.)

you say it as if this takes a lot of energy. switching the A/V cables of your console shouldn't take more than five seconds.

JDuncan

01-06-2004, 02:36 PM

Well... its pretty much the only game from the first Xbox that anyone will still care about by then (Halo and Halo II).Ha. That's a good one.

Adam Tyner

01-06-2004, 02:58 PM

Well... its pretty much the only game from the first Xbox that anyone will still care about by then (Halo and Halo II). Then again Xbox 2 will probably sport Halo III as a launch title and the previous games will be on PC, so maybe no one would care.I was under the impression that these sorts of comments were frowned upon. (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=83136)

you say it as if this takes a lot of energy. switching the A/V cables of your console shouldn't take more than five seconds.Dunno about Thrax's rig, but my component cables are definitely tougher to plug in than standard composite (not "hard", but they don't just slide right in quite as easily), and since they're deep in the back of a 300 lb. TV set, they're not easily accessible.

Thrax, I'd personally recommend buying a composite switcher (get one that's passive, though; nothing plugged into an electrical outlet), matching up the colors of your component cables so that the inputs match the outputs, and use that as a switchbox. It's a cheap, effective way to switch component inputs -- I use it to switch between my XBox and my DVD player, and I've seen it very highly recommended by folks on DVD Talk and the Home Theater Forum. Users there note that there isn't any discernable signal degradation in doing so, but I don't know how well it would work under really high-resolution situations. If you're predominately playing 480p though, you should be fine with it.

Chad Bonin

01-06-2004, 03:02 PM

I played Halo, and damn if I didn't like it as much as say, Goldeneye.

Backwards compatability is real nice. Buy a new Gameboy, go sell your old one for 30 bucks, and keep the same 'ol Tetris cartridge with your beloved high score in play. I would love to play some of my Super Nintendo, Genesis, or Nintendo 64 games, but as my Gamecube, Dreamcast, and PS2 are plugged in, I can't as easily as I wish.

James

01-06-2004, 03:11 PM

Well... its pretty much the only game from the first Xbox that anyone will still care about by then (Halo and Halo II). Then again Xbox 2 will probably sport Halo III as a launch title and the previous games will be on PC, so maybe no one would care.
Maybe not you, but lets leave the sneering X-Box comments at the door. I don't think they are appropriate. We've had many X-Box owners who will swear by their machine and it's games. These comments border on flamebait so let it go HL - thanks! :)

The Jinjo

01-06-2004, 04:15 PM

I don't have an Xbox, but I'd be pretty pissed at this. Backwards compatibility is a very important feature these days. Sony's doing it, it seems like Nintendo will be doing it, and I can't see why Microsoft wont. Having the option to play older games is great, it allows you to sell your old system. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd love to have one console that played all my games. So when I can play 2 consoles worth of games on one console, it's a good thing. Also, it allows you to play all the classics. My gamecube doesn't play N64 games, so I can't easily play some of my old favorites like Mario 64 and Glover. (theres no room to set it up anymore). You can also buy old games for your new systems. It's all pros, no cons. Plus, Xbox is a big machine. Having 2 Xbox sized consoles in your entertainment center would leave no room for something standard like a DVD player. Ah, oh well.

Chad Bonin

01-06-2004, 04:19 PM

Actually, I believe there are some cons. I always heard that PSone implementation in the PS2 restricts it to two control ports and hinders the graphic capability.

PTCoakley

01-06-2004, 06:46 PM

First off, your talking about something that came from IGN, a source that is not the most reliable IMO. Second, about the different video cards not being compatible, that is not true. All games on the XBox are programed to take control of the hardware indirectly, i.e. the video card is not called upon specifcally by its device name, the NV2x, in the programs themselves, it is called upon just as the default hardware [just like a regular PC]. Last, I don't think backwards compatibilty should be such a big deal. How many PS3 owners are gonna play PS2 games spuratically, let alone PSX games? It's a nice feature, but one that is just there to most people, and not really necessary.

Frank Castle

01-06-2004, 07:10 PM

I already have an Xbox but that does seem like a kick in the grapefruits for not having backwards compatibility.

Yash

01-06-2004, 07:39 PM

Something I laugh at in that article.

Guy: Oh we'd love to have the XBOX 2 play XBOX games, that'd be the greatest thing since mana, it's a profitable idea that's sure to get us ahead blablablablabla we're not gonna do it.

I understand the graphics chip thing though, but backwards compatibility would be useful.

Sketch

01-06-2004, 09:43 PM

Maybe not you, but lets leave the sneering X-Box comments at the door. I don't think they are appropriate. We've had many X-Box owners who will swear by their machine and it's games. These comments border on flamebait so let it go HL - thanks! :)
I meant no dissgrace by what I said. I was just saying of all the games that people will miss... it will be Halo. I say this because every friend I have that has an Xbox is somewhat obsessive over the game. I don't hate Xbox, though I do stick up for Nintendo (like I stick up for Toonami).

Sorry if you took it the wrong way, but I know if I had just gotten Halo or Halo 2 and an Xbox and then MS puts out Xbox 2 and my "favorite game" doesn't work on it... then I'd be annoyed.

Frank Castle

01-06-2004, 09:47 PM

I meant no dissgrace by what I said. I was just saying of all the games that people will miss... it will be Halo. I say this because every friend I have that has an Xbox is somewhat obsessive over the game. I don't hate Xbox, though I do stick up for Nintendo (like I stick up for Toonami).

Sorry if you took it the wrong way, but I know if I had just gotten Halo or Halo 2 and an Xbox and then MS puts out Xbox 2 and my "favorite game" doesn't work on it... then I'd be annoyed.I really like HALO but it's nothing groundbreaking in my view and I love Xbox. But FF7 was the most groundbreaking in my view.:)

Sketch

01-06-2004, 09:49 PM

Square-Enix really ought to release a remake of that stellar game for GCN and/or PS2.

Frank Castle

01-06-2004, 10:04 PM

Square-Enix really ought to release a remake of that stellar game for GCN and/or PS2.Looks like we'll have to settle for the movie if it ever comes to the U.S.:sad: I guess I'll just have to go back to playing FF X-2 right now.:)

Master Moron

01-07-2004, 12:20 AM

Well, backwards compatibility is a big issue for me. I mean, the main reasons I bought a PS2 in the first place was to play DVDs and PS1 games. I didn't even buy a PS2 game till after I owned the system for several months.

As for the X-Box 2. I know right now that I won't buy it if it's not backwards compatible. I mean, if Nintendo's next system can play games from 2 systems and Playstation 3 can play games from 3 systems then why should I even consider X-Box 2 if it can only play games from one system?

Sure, I could buy a used system, but why bother? It'll just make a bunch of clutter. I mean, there's already enough controllers tangled up on my floor. I've actually wanted to play some N64 games for years, and I probably would have bought a Gamecube had it been backwards compatible, but I'm not willing to go out and buy a used N64. It'll just be a hassle. I'll have to buy expansion packs and memory cards and controllers, ugh, and then it'll take up room on my shelf and the cords will get all tangled. It's just not worth it.

Master Moron

01-07-2004, 02:18 AM

LINK (http://www.hori.ne.jp/wl_as2/index.html), LINK (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/details&CRID=1591&CONTENTID=6110&countryid=19&languageid=1), and LINK (http://www.nintendo.com/gcnlarge?gallery=accessory&currentNo=5).

Those should take care of your tangled controllers problem. Can't do anything to help you with the rest of your clutter, unfortunately.
Nah, cordless controllers kind of suck. You need to hold the controller in the same position for the entire time that you're playing a game because if you move them the signal won't reach the system. Several years ago I was at a friends house playing Genesis and he had cordless controllers. Since his Genesis was higher than his chairs I had to hold the controller up to aim it at the Genesis. And my arms got very tired very quickly. And lots of times during game play I'd forget that it was cordless and I would move my arms and the buttons ceased to work. It was very annoying.

What WAS usefull where these controllers made by NAKI that could be used for both Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo, unfortunately like most third party controllers, they wore down pretty easily. I wonder if anyone makes a controller that's compatible with Gamecube, PS2, and X-Box?

Skiptastic

01-07-2004, 03:00 AM

I really like HALO but it's nothing groundbreaking in my view and I love Xbox. But FF7 was the most groundbreaking in my view.:)
Final Fantasy VII was about as groundbreaking as the ten minute mile. There. I feel better now having disgraced a video game. Especially when said game is one of my top 3 games of all time.

Well, this whole thing has suddenly gone crazy, so I stop talking about backwards compatibility until the system is released.

Morac

01-12-2004, 05:15 PM

The reason why it won't happen. The Xbox card is made by Nvidia, the next Xbox card is made by ATI. Different cards = no backwards compatibility.That makes no sense. The X-Box is basically a computer using some custom components (http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/xbox1.htm) and a streamlined OS. That's why its so easy to port games between Windows and the X-Box.

It shouldn't make a difference who makes the graphics chip. That's like saying none of my games in a desktop PC will work if you replace an NVidia graphics card with an ATI graphics card. All that would need to be updated would be the drivers which should be part of the X-Box itself, not the games. Or a wrapper could be used to convert NVidia specific calls to ATI.

The PS2 runs PS1 games via a special driver, the same could be done with the XBox 2.

guinaevere

01-13-2004, 01:18 PM

Now to make things really messy, what about the speculation that the new Xbox won't have a hard-drive for games to be stored on? (I wish I could remember the mag I read that in, but for the life of me, I can't right now.) To me, that would be a huge step in the wrong direction after spoiling us with it on the current Xbox!

Thrax, I'd personally recommend buying a composite switcher Unfortunately, those kinda defeat the purpose of using composite cables. The idea behind component inputs (for those of you who don't know) is for a higher-end, usually a high-d tv screen and sound system. Plugging component cables into a switcher and from there to the tv, you lose quality. Yes, it will still be a better quality than your typical AV cables, but if you're going to spend the $70 dollars for the component cables (that's what our xbox & GC monster cables each cost), then (for the games that make use of higher dpi) I'd just take the time to switch them out at the back of the tv to get the best output possible. ( ::brag:: Fortunately, my TV has multiple component inputs, so this is not necessary.)

Actually, I believe there are some cons. I always heard that PSone implementation in the PS2 restricts it to two control ports and hinders the graphic capability. Thank you. Yes, the video quality of ps1 games played on the ps2 is decreased. Which is why we never got rid of the old original playstation for the older games.

Not anymore. The current cordless controllers use RF, not IR. They work regardless of which direction you hold the controller in and from pretty far away. I can get my Wavebird and Anashin to work from anywhere in my apartment.

And Hori and Logitech make high quality, licensed products. Nothing to worry about. True. The current cordless controllers are amazing. I love my wavebird dearly, the only complaint I have is that there is no rumble feature on it. However, there are cordless pelican models for ps2 & xbox, which do have a rumble feature. And they play beautifully. I've used them for games such as Unreal on Xbox live, and lost no edge owing to signal lag or anything of the sort.

Adam Tyner

01-13-2004, 01:40 PM

Plugging component cables into a switcher and from there to the tv, you lose quality.
You are unlikely to ever find a group of people more rabid and unrelenting about video quality than those on the Home Theater Forum, and there are quite a number of users of exceptionally high-end equipment who swear by the component cables/composite switchbox trick. As long as you use a passive switchbox and not an active box, signal degradation is negligible.

Volt

01-13-2004, 02:25 PM

Well, I see why. Backwards compatability isn't really a big issue for me...The PS2 doesn't display PSone games properly, giving them riggid and "crappy" lines and animations that the PSone drivers took care of... I play PSone games on my PSone and PS2 on my PS2.

I heard PS3 won't play PS2 or Psone games due to the difference in drivers and cards, but that's perfectly fine with me. That means 10 million PSone/PS2's will keep their happy homes and not end up in a land fill or the equivalent...GameXchange. :lol:

I like what Nintendo has done with their GB series. and That NGC can be hooked up with the GBA and have the GBplayer. It's all very nice. Hopefully they'll continue it...

Back to PS3, If they make it compatable with PS2 and PSone games and retain the quality...that will raise the value of the PS2, Good and Bad. Good for those of you who missed out on the PS2/PS1 era, and bad for those of you who already have one and don't feal like re-buying the feature that will come standard in your PS3. But I heard there will be different versions of PS3, one with the "WORKS" and the plain old "Basic" one. That's a good idea too.

And now OT, the Nex(t)box being compatable with Xbox games would be good. But not nessassary... BUT it would help xbox get higher on the list. I guess they herd about PS3 not doing it and so they weren't too worried...

If Backward compatability will limit the other features then leave it out...

*Waits for Sega Dreambox* *thinks*

-it's not coming is it? :(-

guinaevere

01-13-2004, 10:42 PM

You are unlikely to ever find a group of people more rabid and unrelenting about video quality than those on the Home Theater Forum I didn't even realise there was an audio/videophile forum here. Or do you mean else-where?

As long as you use a passive switchbox and not an active box, signal degradation is negligible. Ah. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info!

Adam Tyner

01-14-2004, 07:55 AM

I didn't even realise there was an audio/videophile forum here. Or do you mean else-where?
Sorry, I probably should've hyperlinked. Two of the most bustling audio/video forums are the Home Theater Forum (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/) and AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/).

guinaevere

04-07-2004, 07:58 PM

Oooh! news news news!! Scroll on down through this gamespot article (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/04/07/news_6093125.html)for some possibly very good news about the NextBox or whatever you wanna call it.

The important line is: U.S. patent 6,716,102, granted Tuesday to Microsoft, covers methods for storing data about games in progress.

Martianinvader

04-08-2004, 02:15 AM

Playstation 2 wasn't totally back-compatible. There was a list of 10 games that would not work on it. I owned 3, and still do. I still have my PS1 because of that.

Lucky Bob

04-08-2004, 02:42 AM

Y'know, the SNES wasn't backwards compatible with the NES.

I'm just sayin.

Artimus Gigan

04-08-2004, 02:55 AM

Y'know, the SNES wasn't backwards compatible with the NES.

I'm just sayin.
Yes but that was a time before DVDs, the time before standard 4 controler ports, the time before VA's ing games, the time before 3D, the time before memory cards, the time before...well N64 and Playstation...

Also to note my Playstation 2 seems iffy on playing PS1 games, but I have a PSO that quasi-replaced my PSX(it works but not all the time), so I use the PSO to play playstation games...

KBlueBiG

04-08-2004, 02:20 PM

HAHA... thats what you get you X-Boxers... PS3 will be backwards compatible with PS2 but I think they said it wont do PSone. I hope it does though.

PS2 FOREVER !!!!!!!!

So what if I have to pay an extra $100 for the Hard Drive and X-Box has it... built... in.... Now I made myself depressed.

MattThomasM2B

04-08-2004, 02:30 PM

God..

First they're taking out the Hard Drive and now they won't be making the next X-Box backwards compatible? Just what the hell are they doing?

http://www.thebproject.com/TempHahavidgames.jpg

I don't exactly have the space for another console.

Opaque

04-08-2004, 04:12 PM

guinaevere

04-08-2004, 06:07 PM

First they're taking out the Hard Drive and now they won't be making the next X-Box backwards compatible? Just what the hell are they doing? Well, if ya read my post, you'd see that it's completely possible that there will be a hard drive of sorts in the next xbox. Which is good.

How do you play with your stuff like that? eek! :sweat:

Skiptastic

04-09-2004, 10:07 AM

Here's a more obvious answer: BUY A BIGGER SHELF.

Psycho Fox

04-09-2004, 10:51 AM

That makes no sense. The X-Box is basically a computer using some custom components (http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/xbox1.htm) and a streamlined OS. That's why its so easy to port games between Windows and the X-Box.

It shouldn't make a difference who makes the graphics chip. That's like saying none of my games in a desktop PC will work if you replace an NVidia graphics card with an ATI graphics card. All that would need to be updated would be the drivers which should be part of the X-Box itself, not the games. Or a wrapper could be used to convert NVidia specific calls to ATI.

The PS2 runs PS1 games via a special driver, the same could be done with the XBox 2.But PS2 has hardware emulation and even then a few games refuse to run. The fact is the X-Box is a console and MS can't stop devlopers from writting in Assembler and by passing the OS to get better performance becouse the X-Box OS sucks up resources and is not real-time (Not being a real-time OS is a big hit in performance) so by not loading the X-Box OS and just communcating directly to the hardware the X-Box can have more performance. Hobbiest already have hacked X-Box to bypass the OS to get the X-Box to push more polygons faster for the demo scene.

Y'know, the SNES wasn't backwards compatible with the NES.

I'm just sayin.But the Genesis was backwards compatible with the SMS via a adapter.