Fantastic Four "And A Blind Man Shall Lead Them..." Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

Stu

12-22-2003, 03:04 PM

Discuss this second season Fantastic Four episode!

http://marvel.toonzone.net/fanfourtas/fftastalkback1.jpg

Episode #14: And A Blind Man Shall Lead Them...
Original Airdate - 23rd September 1995

After being exposed to radiation resulting from Doctor Doom's nuclear bomb, the FF find themselves powerless. Reed discovers a way to artificially reinstate the FF's powers, but not before Doctor Doom takes over the Baxter Building. With the help of the blind lawyer Matt Murdock (alias Daredevil), the Fantastic Four are able to infiltrate the building and reinstate their power. They let Doom escape, and in the process Doom destroys the Baxter Building.

Comments?

whitmore_sean

12-22-2003, 05:38 PM

This was such a fabulous show...in its second season, anyway (I like to consider the first season a separate, crappier series). They may have been a smidge too slavish to the source material, since every single episode was taken directly from either a Kirby or Byrne issue of the book, but it was still the truest representation of its characters to animation since the Batman toon.

And "Blind Man Shall Lead Them", the second season opener, was one of the best episodes. It was great to see Daredevil (animated WELL for once) as agile and sarcastic as 90's animated Spidey never was. Doom displayed the perfect mix of standard super villainy necessary for a cartoon and an egotism that made it seem like it was all beneath him.

The Thing's subplot was excellent, perfectly showcasing the "damned if he do, damned if he don't" situation that has always plagued the character. I also appreciate that Ben didn't spring into any expositional monologues to drum home the point of his angst, like Spider-Man and the X-Men did in every episode of their toons. The scene where Ben simply crushed Alicia's engagement ring was an honest-to-goodness tearjerker, as were MANY other scenes throughout the series.

This show has always deserved wider recognition (a DVD release or at least some friggin reruns would be nice). Maybe the upcoming FF movie will spark the interest that the Hulk movie failed to with its own cartoon (i.e. one DVD and then kaput).

SEAN

HellCat

12-23-2003, 09:13 AM

Like the first second season ep of Iron Man, the main point behind this episode was to bridge the gap between the much crappier first season. Hence we have the Baxter Building imploding, ridding us of the stupid "FF's nasty landlady" plots.
I liked second season Doom alot better. First season Doom was always drawn horribly and was pretty cliche. Second season Doom was more stylish and smart, especially with the Tim Curry-like voice.
Ben's emotions were a key part of this episode. Unlike the rest of the team, he enjoys being back to a normal human. You really feel for him when he's forced to return to being The Thing and starts beating the crap out of Doom.

Spider-Man

01-04-2004, 11:46 PM

whitmore_sean

01-05-2004, 06:52 PM

I didn't like the Daredevil subplot, mainly for how he was portrayed. Since when is Daredevil a fun-loving kind of guy? It didn't seem like he had any emotional baggage with him, like when he was in the Spider-Man Fox series.

To be fair, this was a Daredevil from before the days of Frank Miller and others started the ball rolling on the "make you wanna kill yourself" torture of the character. Back in the day, DD was a swashbuckler in the vein of Spidey or Nightcrawler. The problem with the angsty Daredevil from the Spidey toon is that all we got were a few cheap flashbacks to understand (not to mention care about) why he's so tortured.

SEAN

Stu

01-06-2004, 11:41 AM

I really liked the subplot with the Thing. A nice highlight from the animated series. I didn't like the Daredevil subplot, mainly for how he was portrayed. Since when is Daredevil a fun-loving kind of guy? It didn't seem like he had any emotional baggage with him, like when he was in the Spider-Man Fox series. He just seemed like a cliched guest-star who just pops in and out - nothing more.
My thoughts exactly, I'm a big Daredevil fan, and being that I didn't get to see the second season of FF until about 5 years after I saw the first, terrible season, this was the one episode I wanted to see, the one that made me want to watch the show. So, despite damn nice animation, Daredevil failed to please, as he was basically a poor mans Spider-Man. The producers apprantly read a lot of the Lee/Kirby and John Bryne Fantastic Four comics, they should have read some of Frank Millers Daredevil. I don't really like this cartoon much at all, I never really thought it was that much better than the first season, this show, unlike Iron Man, didn't really do much for me. I wish Daredevil would've guest starred on that instead.

Stu

09-12-2004, 05:56 PM

ABC Family aired this episode as part of thier marathon this morning.

http://marvel.toonzone.net/fanfourtas/episode/blindman/18.jpg

Episode #14: And A Blind Man Shall Lead Them...
Original Airdate - 23rd September 1995

After being exposed to radiation resulting from Doctor Doom's nuclear bomb, the FF find themselves powerless. Reed discovers a way to artificially reinstate the FF's powers, but not before Doctor Doom takes over the Baxter Building. With the help of the blind lawyer Matt Murdock (alias Daredevil), the Fantastic Four are able to infiltrate the building and reinstate their power. They let Doom escape, and in the process Doom destroys the Baxter Building.

Comments?

Xtreme

09-12-2004, 08:28 PM

This was a great episode, I really liked to see Daredevil wit The Fantastic Four.

Pyro

09-13-2004, 01:10 AM

I liked this episode a lot better than the Galactus episodes from Season 1. Daredevil wasn't quite what I expected, but the animation was probably the best I've seen from that age of Marvel toons.

Spider-Man

09-14-2004, 08:51 PM

I liked this episode a lot better than the Galactus episodes from Season 1. Daredevil wasn't quite what I expected, but the animation was probably the best I've seen from that age of Marvel toons. The animation in this episode looked like the animation from the final X-Men: TAS episodes. A bit rubbery but nice to look at. I wish this Daredevil appearance would've led to more. Here he seems like a Spider-Man stand-in, too jokey and not his usual self.

thanos28542

09-15-2004, 01:03 PM

Ist off, there's no way in H%$# that anyone should be saying the animation of FF's second season was the same as season 1's atrocious animation! Season 2 of FF was totally superior to Season 1 in every way, shape & form! The stories were great adaptions of some of Lee & kirby's stories from the 60's & some were adaptions of John Byrne's great run on FF in the 80's! The animation was fluid & the amount of guest heroes & villians was awesome! The same can be said for Ironman's 2nd season in his animated series. I really hope they make DVD's of seasons 2 of both FF & Ironman in the near future!

90'sCartoonMan

09-15-2004, 05:34 PM

Like many of you have said, Fantastic Four season 2 (as well as Iron Man) was very underrated, and this episode is a great example. It's a comic book adaptation that works well as a half hour show. It's got great character development for Ben, and it shows that Dr. Doom is a real threat. You could hold this episode up to any single episode of X-Men or Spider-Man (which, granted, was very story arc-driven). Besides, I felt Daredevil's portrayal was pretty cool.

RAINMAN

09-16-2004, 04:24 AM

It one of these ep that you love to hate. It show that despike ben being the humorus brawer we come to know, that deep down he really is a bitter person who wish to be normal guy.

spyke

09-16-2004, 07:02 PM

AlphaPrime

09-18-2004, 12:52 AM

Its been awhile since i've seen FF til this ep, and boy, am i glad i saw it, i loved it!! the subplot of Ben was great! and sad *sniffle*, i liked Daredevil more in it then his Spider-Man incarnation.

And oh yeah, Dr Doom = Kain WOOT!! *maybe i play just a lil to much Legacy of Kain games......naaaaaaaaaaaaaah*

Spider-Man

09-19-2004, 01:19 PM

Its been awhile since i've seen FF til this ep, and boy, am i glad i saw it, i loved it!! the subplot of Ben was great! and sad *sniffle*, i liked Daredevil more in it then his Spider-Man incarnation.I thought his Spider-Man appearance was a bit better than here. He just didn't seem right in this episode. He came off as Spider-Man Lite where in Spider-Man he seemed to be his regular brooding self.

Stu

06-18-2005, 06:01 AM

The Fantastic Four returns to TV today, starting with the second season premiere.

This is an episode I didn't originally like, but it grows on me after each viewing. I'm still not too fond of Daredevil's portrayal, but there's a lot of other, much better stuff to the episode such as the great subplot with Ben being human again, thier artificial powers and that brilliant ending with The Thing and Doom's hands.

Anyone else catch this today?

Spider-Man

06-18-2005, 10:01 PM

I was surprised to find out that this episode is actually based off an old issue of the Fantastic Four comic. I stumbled upon the cover art and some small interior shots when flipping through the last Starlog magazine. I wonder how true to the story they kept it. It's a pretty enjoyable fluff episode and it a good way to spend 20 minutes.

bigddan11

06-18-2005, 10:26 PM

This show has always deserved wider recognition (a DVD release or at least some friggin reruns would be nice). Maybe the upcoming FF movie will spark the interest that the Hulk movie failed to with its own cartoon (i.e. one DVD and then kaput).SEAN
Actually, the Fantastic Four is supposed to get a full series DVD release before the Fantastic Four movie comes out. I just wish they'd have shown a couple of episodes of Ben's misery from season 1 before showing the season 2 premeire, but maybe they only have season 2 or something. I can't wait to see the other episodes of the series again, and just maybe Fatastic Four will get to be on longer than 3 months.

Stu

09-17-2005, 11:11 AM

ABC Family airs this episode yet again. There are 26 episodes available ABC, maybe you should air the other 22.

http://marvel.toonzone.net/fanfourtas/episode/blindman/24.jpg

Episode #14: And A Blind Man Shall Lead Them...
Original Airdate - 23rd September 1995

After being exposed to radiation resulting from Doctor Doom's nuclear bomb, the FF find themselves powerless. Reed discovers a way to artificially reinstate the FF's powers, but not before Doctor Doom takes over the Baxter Building. With the help of the blind lawyer Matt Murdock (alias Daredevil), the Fantastic Four are able to infiltrate the building and reinstate their power. They let Doom escape, and in the process Doom destroys the Baxter Building.

Comments?

Spider-Man

09-17-2005, 03:41 PM

ABC Family airs this episode yet again. There are 26 episodes available ABC, maybe you should air the other 22. I have noticed this seems to be a popular episode for the network. I remember earlier this year they aired it on both Saturday and Sunday of the same weekend. Now I don't mind the episode but they do seem to air this one quite abit. Then again maybe they just don't want to air the first season episodes more than they have to and are dipping into the second season ones more and more.

Caswin

03-03-2007, 07:48 PM

Great job introducing the new batch. Within the first five seconds of this episode, we finally see a decent Thing design.

Thirty seconds, and we're introduced to new, smooth animation that allows Ben to throw more than one punch every five seconds. Oh, and Reed's sweet gauntlet-punch.

Two minutes... Doom! And he's cool now!

Twenty-two minutes later, well, it ain't Shakespeare. There were some pacing issues, as well as a few implausible things still hanging around (elevator bomb - not so good). I actually wonder how good a reception this would have gotten were it in the first season, animation, voices and all.

Daredevil's guest appearance and Thing's crisis say: maybe not fantastic, but just fine, thank you.

Tinytooncrazy

03-04-2007, 07:53 AM

Juu-kuchi

03-05-2007, 06:24 AM

Not too shabby. Seemed a little rushed for the beginning of the better season, sortof like what I felt about the first episode of Iron Man.

Is it just me or in the new opening, they 'frolic' to the space shuttle?

Stu

06-22-2008, 10:02 AM

Jetix air's this episode today as part of thier Fantastic Four marathon.

http://marvel.toonzone.net/fanfourtas/episode/blindman/51.jpg

Anyone have any comments on the second season premiere? What did you think of it back when it originally aired?

Rick Jones

06-23-2008, 02:21 AM

This episode is awesome
I remember that I used to rush to see the first season of FF and Iron Man, and while I thought Iron Man was pretty silly, I liked FF. Probably because that show actually had stories, poor attempts to adapt classic stories I didn't have a chance to read as yet, but still better than watching the same heroes and villains play fight for 22 minutes. I didn't even think that they'd ever do new episodes of the shows, figured they'd re-run the old ones until they got other shows.

I was pretty much done waking up Sunday morning to watch Iron Man, which came right before FF in NY, but I just wanted to see the Sub-Mariner episode of FF that I kept on missing so I tuned in. From the second I saw that intro with the close-up of the Thing punching the head off of Doom's robot, my mind was blown. In five seconds, I'd seen the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen in a cartoon series at that time. The animation was perfect to me, the action and everything else was just right. I had no idea how bad the first season was until I'd seen this.

Another thing that surprised me was how cool Doom was. He was funny and menacing and sophisticated unlike the clown from the first season. Daredevil was another great surprise. I like him here a lot more than I did when he eventually showed up in Spider-Man, both appearance and voice wise. This swashbuckler was the version I first knew from reading my uncle's old comics in the attic, before he became the tortured soul he was during the Miller era. The story was pretty great to me especially Ben's heartbreak at the end. the characters were shown as people and not just the caricatures they were before. I really can't describe how much I loved this season of FF. I'm about ready to pop in the dvd's right now.

Hypestyle

06-23-2008, 01:31 PM

cool episode... I'll have to cop that boxed set before it goes out of print...

Movie06

06-23-2008, 03:48 PM

Personally, I like how Dr. Doom is portrayed in this episode. He's exactly who Dr. Doom is in the comics.

Caswin

06-23-2008, 06:42 PM

cool episode... I'll have to cop that boxed set before it goes out of print...Might want to hold off on that - Liberation Entertainment is making a new set, uncut this time.

Antiyonder

06-23-2008, 07:41 PM

Personally, I like how Dr. Doom is portrayed in this episode. He's exactly who Dr. Doom is in the comics.

Almost. The only thing that he lacks is the well intentioned demeanor which are incorporating in the 1981 Spider-Man cartoon and his appearance on the Secret War's third part on the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon.

Caswin

06-23-2008, 10:25 PM

Almost. The only thing that he lacks is the well intentioned demeanor which are incorporating in the 1981 Spider-Man cartoon and his appearance on the Secret War's third part on the 1994 Spider-Man cartoon.Actually, he's even got that going for him. Once he gets back to his castle, for example, he tells Boris how he plans to "bring order to a world gone mad" now that the Four are gone. Later on, in "Doomsday" (in what's less of a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment), when he hijacks the Silver Surfer's power, he makes a speech about how he can use his newfound power to end hunger, disease, crime, and all those other terrible things... "Under the benevolence of my iron will!", just in case you forgot he was the bad guy.

So yeah. Really great Doom they've got here, bit of a shame he's only actually in a few episodes.

Antiyonder

06-23-2008, 10:32 PM

Actually, he's even got that going for him. Once he gets back to his castle, for example, he tells Boris how he plans to "bring order to a world gone mad" now that the Four are gone. Later on, in "Doomsday" (in what's less of a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment), when he hijacks the Silver Surfer's power, he makes a speech about how he can use his newfound power to end hunger, disease, crime, and all those other terrible things... "Under the benevolence of my iron will!", just in case you forgot he was the bad guy.

True, but his Spider-Man appearances (Amazing Friends aside), imo, do more with him trying to do good for the world. Heck, it's almost hard to see him as the big villain in the early half of Secret Wars Chapter 3.

Movie06

06-24-2008, 03:26 AM

So yeah. Really great Doom they've got here, bit of a shame he's only actually in a few episodes.

Yeah, I like this Doom better than all of his other animated appearences. Not to mention he had a cool design.

Manhunter

06-24-2008, 10:02 AM

Personally, I like how Dr. Doom is portrayed in this episode. He's exactly who Dr. Doom is in the comics.

The first few lines of dialogue he has in this episode are my favorite part:

"Yes, I'm so sorry to involve you in the timeworn damsel-in-distress cliché, Mrs. Richards. I fear the only thing missing is the onrushing train! However, sometimes expediency outweighs originality. Now, with your permission... "

Movie06

06-24-2008, 01:44 PM

The first few lines of dialogue he has in this episode are my favorite part:

"Yes, I'm so sorry to involve you in the timeworn damsel-in-distress cliché, Mrs. Richards. I fear the only thing missing is the onrushing train! However, sometimes expediency outweighs originality. Now, with your permission... "

I love that line, in fact Dr. Doom in the second season got all the best lines since well, he's Doom.

Hypestyle

06-24-2008, 03:00 PM

Might want to hold off on that - Liberation Entertainment is making a new set, uncut this time.

ah... interesting..

AlgeaX

01-13-2009, 10:55 AM

The first few lines of dialogue he has in this episode are my favorite part:

"Yes, I'm so sorry to involve you in the timeworn damsel-in-distress cliché, Mrs. Richards. I fear the only thing missing is the onrushing train! However, sometimes expediency outweighs originality. Now, with your permission... "

God I love the Simon Templeton Doom, easily the best non-comic version of the charachter.