Now Hear This & Bartholomew VS The Wheel

[Dub]

Were these like...the last two cartoons or something? Cause everytime I see them, their like.....REALLY REALLY BAD AND THEY DONT GET ANY BETTER :D


This isnt my first time seeing either by far, but still. Each time they rerun I just get this "Eeeeew" feeling. ^___^


**Note to Jon Cooke - I cant seem to reply to topics that list what aired on the Acme Hour or another regular toon. Call it stupid ignorant lamish-newbie-ism I guess, but is it supposed to be like that? :)

[J Lee]

Warner's one-shot cartoons got very "artsy" in the final two years of production, and in the last release season, it was decided that they were so different from the regular stuff that Jones, Noble and Lava created the new opening and closing graphics sequence which was supposed to be only for the one-shots. They were used on those two cartoons, plus "Senorella and the Glass Hurrache" before J.L. shut the cartoon department down.

Once D-FE started doing the WB shorts, those graphics began to be used on all the cartoons. To most people, when they come on, the graphics pretty much say "It's OK to flip the channel or go to the refigerator to get something to eat, because it's one of those cartoons," though I'll admit, not all of them are total losses.

[Joe Tully]

The art style is all part of the effect that UPA had on the industry.

I enjoy "Bartholomew", but I guess a lot of people don't.

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by Jon "WB" Gray
**Note to Jon Cooke - I cant seem to reply to topics that list what aired on the Acme Hour or another regular toon. Call it stupid ignorant lamish-newbie-ism I guess, but is it supposed to be like that? :)


You can not reply to posts on the WHAT AIRED TODAY? board. That board is an archive/reference only. However, you can reply to those posts here on the regular TTTP. That is why they appear on both boards.


-Jon

[Gossamer]

Actually, I like both of tese, although Now Hear This is the better of the two, at least I think so. Tastes differ, I like the unusual and different.

[Jack]

I like them both too, but I think I like "Bartholomew Vs. the Wheel" more. It looks that way because it's done in the style of James Thurbur (sp?), I believe. It's a cute little cartoon (not that I'd want a whole series of cartoons like it, though).



Jack:D

[Gossamer]

I hadn't thought of "Bartholomew" as Thurber-like, but now I see the similarities. Thanks.

[Emmanuel Cruz]

I actually liked Senorella and the Glass Huarache. Oh well.

[PlopKat]

UPA made a short out of The Unicorn In The Garden. There was a TV situation comedy in the late 1960s based on the works of James Thurber and it featred brief animated sequences done in Thurber's style. IIRC, the animation was done by DePatie-Freleng.

The show was called My World & Welcome To It. It only ran for one year on NBC. I'd like to see it again. I watched it because of the animation and I think a lot of it went over my head.

-PlopKat

[Matthew Hunter]

I like James Thruber's stuff, and come to think of it that cartoon does resemble Thurber. I actually like that one better than "Now Hear This" (that one sounds terrible, I hate the soundtrack). I have always liked "Bartholomew versus the Wheel". "Senorella" and "Now Hear this" both pretty much suck. As for the "one of THOSE cartoons" philosophy, it depends. Those 3 are generally ones I avoid, I also used to avoid anything to do with the Hendricks/Klynn era of Daffy/Speedy...those cartoons suck, REALLY bad, and now that I have most of them on tape I can re-confirm that fact. DePatie-Freleng stuff is okay, never bothers me, and the Merlin-CoolCat era is fine. But I scorn the likes of "Sky Scraper Caper" and "See Ya Later Gladiator".
-Matthew

[Dub]

I had forgotten about those as well. The Klynn era had the ones with the black MM logo unlike bartholomew, right?

[Jack]

Originally posted by Jon "WB" Gray
I had forgotten about those as well. The Klynn era had the ones with the black MM logo unlike bartholomew, right?
Yeah, I think the ones made before the original studio shut down had a white background, the ones made after that had the black, until WB merged with(?) 7 Arts. Then they had that new opening with the abstract W7 on it set against a blue background.



Jack:D

[Greg Method]

<< until WB merged with(?) 7 Arts. Then they had that new opening with the abstract W7 on it set against a blue background. >>

The W7 background also switched to an ugly green in '69. It kinda reminds me of the different colors of the target rings for each release season.

[J Lee]

The white background was used on the three "one-shot" cartoons done before the WB studio closed and the first of the D-FE cartoons "Pancho's Hideaway." But when Jones and crew designed the new graphics, they forgot to put in the "A Vitaphone/Vitagrpah Release" on the end titles. "Pancho's" had that, but it was in black on the white background, which made it look like some third grader's cut-and-paste project.

The backgrounds switched to black on the next cartoon, which solved that problem, and then three cartoons later, the standard WB logo began appearing on the MM or LT title card page, because some exec at Warner's appraently decided the "modern" WB design Jones and Noble came up with would confuse the public too much and they might think they're watching a Paramount or Universal cartoon.

The W7 logo debuted when the "new" Warners studio introduced its "new" characters, Cool Cat and Merlin the Magic Mouse (a couple of the Alex Lovy Daffy-Speedys before that used the Jones/Noble logo but were copyrighted by Warner Bros-Seven Arts). Also, somehow whoever the sound editor was on the Herbert Klynn-Rudy Larriva Daffy-Speedys managed to screw up the tape of the opening title music (listen to the very end of the) and so William Lava went back and did a couple of modified versions, which were used over the final two years of production. The new music debuted along with the new logo, and also changed occassionally along with the background colors (black on Cool Cat, then mostly blue, but sometimes dark green).

[dendawg]

Did anyone hear the rumor that Chuck deliberately made "Now Hear This," as an attempt at getting fired? Dunno how true it is, though.

[J Lee]

Jones reportedly said he made his last few "one shot" cartoons in an attempt to annoy Jack Warner. Going by Barrier's book describing Jones' departure from the studio, it sounds like writing "Gay Purr-ee" for UPA while under contract with Warners did more to get under J.L.'s skin than "Now Hear This," "I was a teenage Thumb" or "Martian Thuogh Georgia" ever did.

[Gossamer]

Originally posted by Matthew Hunter
I like James Thruber's stuff, and come to think of it that cartoon does resemble Thurber. I actually like that one better than "Now Hear This" (that one sounds terrible, I hate the soundtrack). I have always liked "Bartholomew versus the Wheel". "Senorella" and "Now Hear this" both pretty much suck. As for the "one of THOSE cartoons" philosophy, it depends. Those 3 are generally ones I avoid, I also used to avoid anything to do with the Hendricks/Klynn era of Daffy/Speedy...those cartoons suck, REALLY bad, and now that I have most of them on tape I can re-confirm that fact. DePatie-Freleng stuff is okay, never bothers me, and the Merlin-CoolCat era is fine. But I scorn the likes of "Sky Scraper Caper" and "See Ya Later Gladiator".
-Matthew


As to the soundtrack on Now Hear This: Given the premise of the cartoon, that it's a very "unusual" horn being used as an ear trumpet, the soundtrack is exactly what's appropriate for what Jones intended and I think he was very successful. He was stretching the envelope. Given that Now Hear This ws nominated for a Academy Award, the cartoon obviously made a good impression on somebody. As I said, tastes differ. Arguements can be made on technical terms, but one man's belly-laugh is another's lead balloon. Believe it or not, some peope don't like Tex Avery. So what?

[xAzNrKx]

do people trade cartoons here? does anyone have any of these toons? as terrible as they may be, i enjoyed these very much as akid.....

[alstin]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
The art style is all part of the effect that UPA had on the industry.

I enjoy "Bartholomew", but I guess a lot of people don't.

I've heard a lot about UPA. What is it? I've heard that UPA affected the way cartoons were made in the late 50's and later. All I know is that MOST, NOT ALL , WB cartoons after 1958 suck!!!

Also, does anybody know if there is a website that has all the title cards WB aver made from all their shorts, including Seven Arts.:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Jack]

UPA was an animation studio. It was formed in WWII, and it's first cartoon was directed by Chuck Jones. It was "Hell Bent For Election." After doing projects for the United Autoworkers Union, it got a contract to do cartoons for Columbia Pictures. They created Mr. Magoo.

The only UPA film you can see on TV today is
Gay Puree" (which was released by Warner Brothers, and occasionally shows up on Cartoon Network's Cartoon Theater).

UPA wanted to move as far away from the realistic Disney Style of cartooning as possible, they made cartoons that were flat, and modern. Critics soon came to love it, and modern graphics became the norm in most Hollywood studios by the late 50s because they wanted to copy UPA (much like how everyone copied Disney in the 30s). Some people liked the new stylings, others did not (Walt Disney supposedly thought his more modern looking films, like "101 Dalmations" were ugly).

You can see the change in Warner Brothers cartoons after the 1954 shutdown. One of the best examples is the Roadrunner series. Look at any cartoon made up until "Stop Look and Hasten" and you will see films with more realistic scenery. After that, the backgrounds became flater looking, with huge areas of yellow.

Don't get the misconception that UPA was the first studio to put modern art into cartoons, other studios did it throughout the 40s. Just look at "Wackiki Wabbit," "Scrap happy Daffy," or "the Artso-cat." In fact, many artists at UPA claim that Chuck Jones' "The Dover Boys" was big influence on them. UPA just made modern art in cartoons popular.

Also, UPA did not have one definate style. They made every cartoon look completely different. When someone says a cartoon is done in UPA Style, they mean it was done in the modern art styles of the day. It is sort of a general term now.

and about the titles, Dave Mackey made an excellent page about them: http://www.davemackey.com/animation/wb/index.html Just go to "Field Guide to Titles and credits" and if you want to view any non- Blue Ribbon title card, just click on a year.



Jack:D

[Gossamer]

Originally posted by xAzNrKx
do people trade cartoons here? does anyone have any of these toons? as terrible as they may be, i enjoyed these very much as akid.....

Just a basic point here: the idea that these cartoons are "terrible" or "great" or whatever is an opinion. While there are qualitative arguments that can be made on technical points, whether or not someone likes a cartoon is a personal and subjective opinion. Not fact carved in mystic runes on a rock somewhere. I repeat: tastes differ. That's life. That I might like Now Hear This while another poster can't stand it neither makes it good or bad. My tastes in animation are somewhat broader than those of a good many who post here. That doesn't mean much.

Yes some do trade here. Good luck on that score. My dealings have been quite good, though somewhat limited.

I close with this heresy: These are cartoons. They deserve respect and so do the posters on this board. But in the grand scheme, it's not life or death here. Lighten up and have a bit more fun with this. Even Paul Terry's worst has fans while even Tex Avery is scorned by some. I repeat: So what? Further Deponent Saith Not

[Matthew Hunter]

Gossamer's right, I agree. I also It's kind of interesting to see which cartoons are liked or disliked by different people and the basis for those opinions. For example, there are people like me who don't really enjoy Sniffles cartoons, but others really like them. I like a lot of the Daffy and Speedy cartoons, most want to burn their negatives. And liking a cartoon depends on the conditions...some people may have fond meories of a cartoon or an experience associated with it. Some are more interested in, say, the storyline than the animation, others think that if a cartoon isn't done in full hand-drawn fame-by-frame glory, it's trash. Look at the Hanna-Barbera cartoons of the 1960's...the animation is laughable at times, but these cartoons are wonderful because of their staging and stories...most modern cartoons can't top the situational humor of Yogi Bear. Once again, opinion, I've known people that think they suck beyond any merits.

Here's an idea...why don't we start something called "Cartoontroversy", in which we pick a certain title and then reply about it, whether you like it or not and why. When that title's run out of steam, we'll do another....I'll start one:

"Sky Scraper Caper"
-this sucks. I think it has a number of things wrong with it that leave a bad taste in my mouth. The backgrounds are really bad, in the beginning particularly. The storyline is a cliche, and the character designs are really odd (Speedy is larger than usual, and Daffy looks really scruffy). The animation is noticeably limited, instead of Speedy running for long distances or doing the "andale! Arriba!", he darts and makes Hanna-Barbera noises...totally different from something Treg Brown would've had him do. I don't feel like I'm watching a Warner Bros. cartoon, and that's not good when using Warner Bros. characters.

-opinions on this title?

-Matthew

[Jack]

That's a good idea, but I don't really remember "Sky Scraper Caper" all that much, and truth be told, I'm not really itching to see it again. The only Daffy Speedy short I can actually differenciate from the others is the one where Daffy is renting a house on vacation in Mexico, and Speedy is living in it. It ends with the house being rocketed into space.



Jack:D

[PorkyandDaffy]

Sorry, I've never seen SKY SCRAPER CAPER so I can't give my opinions, but this sounds like an interesting idea giving our opinions on a picked out cartoon. I think you should start a seperate thread for this, just so more people will notice it.

[xAzNrKx]

naw, some of you said it was terrible and i recognized that it could be interpreted that way. i was merely quoting. sorry that i didnt put quotes on. =p

[J Lee]

Actually, for all its sound and animation flaws, and the fact that the plot goes all the way back to the 1934 Popeye "A Dream Walking," I really don't mind "Skyscraper Caper" that much, because it's the only Daffy-Speedy cartoon in the entire 1965-68 bunch where he's not a mean-sprited villian at some point in the cartoon (though a few others, like "A Taste of Catnip" at least do a semi-decent job of trying to explain why a sourpuss duck would be chasing a mouse).