"Tom Turk & Daffy" Question

[Corrado]

I saw "Tom Turk & Daffy" today and I was wondering why the story was credited to "The Staff" instead of just one person?

Was it because the original storywriter didn't want to be credited? Or was it something else?

[Jave]

There doesn't seem to be an official answer, but I made a theory about it a while ago, here goes: Chuck Jones probably wrote himself this entire cartoon, yet at the time, WB probably didn't allow one person getting two credits on a same cartoon (this also supports my theory of Bob Clampett being the writer of "Kitty Cornered") since that didn't happen (I think) until the late 50s. So Jones, as a possible tribute to his crew (which at the time were mainly Pierce, Maltese, Harris, Washam, Larriva and Cannon), gave the writing credit to "The Staff".

[Corrado]

Oh, I didn't know that.

Thanks.

[J. B. Warner]

That seems like a good theory. I never thought of it like that before.

Great man, Jones. Willing to give credit where it's due.

[Jave]

Oh, I didn't know that.

Thanks.
You're welcome. But remember it's just a theory, and by no means official.

[Sogturtle]

There doesn't seem to be an official answer, but I made a theory about it a while ago, here goes: Chuck Jones probably wrote himself this entire cartoon, yet at the time, WB probably didn't allow one person getting two credits on a same cartoon (this also supports my theory of Bob Clampett being the writer of "Kitty Cornered") since that didn't happen (I think) until the late 50s. So Jones, as a possible tribute to his crew (which at the time were mainly Pierce, Maltese, Harris, Washam, Larriva and Cannon), gave the writing credit to "The Staff".


Corrado, Javeman, J.B. Warner~

Interesting theories. There are some major problems to it all though... Chuck Jones was EXTREMELY busy at the time this cartoon was made, with his theatricals and working on almost half of all the Private Snafu shorts. So much so that Art Davis has long been fingered as the likely (uncredited) co-director of "Tom Turk And Daffy". As such its pretty-darn unlikely Chuck had the time to sit and write & storyboard a whole cartoon solo... Schlesinger virtually always credited one storyman no matter how many (or how few) actually wrote it with the director, UNLESS said writers had left the studio by the time of the cartoon's release (or couldn't be credited for other reasons). Was Art Davis one of the co-writers of "Tom Turk..."??? That's possible in that Jones, Clampett, and Freleng were borrowing him from his home unit (Tashlin's) on a regular basis. His functions SEEM to have ranged from animator on up (example: the ORIGINAL PENCIL model sheets from both Snafu and Hook were in the possession of Art Davis up to his death...strongly hinting although Chuck was the main director of Snafu cartoons, that Art played a large role in turning those out). And as I've tried pointing out before there HAD to have been some very strong feelings of indebtedness by Chuck towards Art Davis as he let him borrow the very character "Tom Turk" (for 'Holiday For Drumsticks') and even Pepe Le Pew, things Jones granted to NO OTHER director ever!! [He gave Henery Hawk to Bob McKimson though]. Besides Davis as possible co-storyman I'd slide the name of Phil Eastman forward and maybe just maybe Pinto Colvig as well (plus one guy who I've still never gotten proof of his employment at the studio at that point though I strongly suspect it). Eastman was drafted just around the time this cartoon was made, while Colvig of course did voice work at Leon's shortly before this was released. Since Eastman was no longer on the payroll then his name would have definitely gotten chopped off the credits, and iffffffff Pinto worked on it and had left then the same would be true for him. Ditto for any other former writers... It's my BELIEF that Eastman (and maybe Colvig and others) would have just become eligible to have screen credit at Schlesinger's, thus the unique "The Staff" story credit.

Since you brought up Clampett's "Kitty Kornered" then I'll add this... Amongst Bob's 1946 cartoons there was only one that he claimed to have written solo, and that was NOT "Kitty Kornered" but instead his farewell piece "The Big Snooze" . "Kitty Kornered" was almost certainly written by one of his recently departed gagmen/writers (same goes for "Bacall To Arms" which Art Davis finished). Among likely candidates for 'author' of those stories would be Michael Sasanoff and Hubie Karp, Sasanoff's name disappeared abruptly in late '45 while Karp never got a single credit.

[Brandon Pierce]

Strange. It seems like whenever a director was unavailable to fully direct a cartoon, they'd pull in Arthur Davis for it. I guess Arthur was like an "emergancy director" back then, huh?

[Friz]

Strange. It seems like whenever a director was unavailable to fully direct a cartoon, they'd pull in Arthur Davis for it. I guess Arthur was like an "emergancy director" back then, huh?




Might have been his nature that led to this.

[Corrado]

"And as I've tried pointing out before there HAD to have been some very strong feelings of indebtedness by Chuck towards Art Davis as he let him borrow the very character "Tom Turk" (for 'Holiday For Drumsticks')"

I noticed that too, with the "No, No, Here, Here" bit.

[Nick]

Since you brought up Clampett's "Kitty Kornered" then I'll add this... Amongst Bob's 1946 cartoons there was only one that he claimed to have written solo, and that was NOT "Kitty Kornered" but instead his farewell piece "The Big Snooze" . "Kitty Kornered" was almost certainly written by one of his recently departed gagmen/writers (same goes for "Bacall To Arms" which Art Davis finished). Among likely candidates for 'author' of those stories would be Michael Sasanoff and Hubie Karp, Sasanoff's name disappeared abruptly in late '45 while Karp never got a single credit.

So "Bacall To Arms" could of been written by George Hill since he wrote Art Davis' "Mouse Menace" and probably "The Goofy Gophers" and "The Foxy Duckling" before William Scott and Llyod Turner joined. (their first cartoon being "Doggone Cats", I presume) But didn't George Hill aslo write "A Pest That Came To Dinner" that was made after "Doggone Cats? There's another thing that bugs me, Dave Monahan also wrote for Davis' unit ("Mexican Joyride", "Catch As Cats Can") as well as Sid Marcus ("Bye Bye Bluebeard" and "A Ham In A Role", the latter being a Robert McKimson cartoon.) while they were still working for Screen Gems. :confused:

[SirRuppOfFiggs]

I noticed that too, with the "No, No, Here, Here" bit.

Here, the gag owed more to "Racketeer Rabbit" than "The Dover Boys"

[Sogturtle]

So "Bacall To Arms" could of been written by George Hill since he wrote Art Davis' "Mouse Menace" and probably "The Goofy Gophers" and "The Foxy Duckling" before William Scott and Lloyd Turner joined. (their first cartoon being "Doggone Cats", I presume) But didn't George Hill aslo write "A Pest That Came To Dinner" that was made after "Doggone Cats? There's another thing that bugs me, Dave Monahan also wrote for Davis' unit ("Mexican Joyride", "Catch As Cats Can") as well as Sid Marcus ("Bye Bye Bluebeard" and "A Ham In A Role", the latter being a Robert McKimson cartoon.) while they were still working for Screen Gems. :confused:

Dear :confused: Nick ;) ~

Confusions reigns (or confusion rains :p )... George Hill's career IS somewhat baffling to figure out... The fact that he is on Art's first CREDITED cartoon (released Nov. '46) probably puts his presence at Warners to at least as early as mid-1945... But there's a catch as he receives story credit on Famous toons released from Nov. '45 up through the end of May '46. I'm honestly not sure even YET as to how big the backlog was at Famous at that juncture, iffffff it's similar to what was happening at Warners & MGM then it just about precludes Hill's presence at Warners till that point in mid '45... Translating this from Turtlese :p , means that Hill is probably not the man to credit/blame for "Bacall To Arms" (a cartoon I've always loved, but hey, that's just me). Annnnnnd it likely means once again that the finger most LIKELY should be pointed towards the departed gag men Michael Sasanoff, Hubie Karp and POSSIBLY Lou Lilly. The exact placement of "The Pest That Came To Dinner" is weird also, in that is was released in Sept. '48 BUT was copyrighted in Oct. '49 BUT the copyright was put "in notice" back in 1947. What this means is the cartoon was fully completed sometime in '47, buuuuuut allowing for the production time and backlog puts its start of production way, way back. ...A tell-tale sign would most likely be the presence of animator John Carey working on the cartoon rather than Emery Hawkins...

Factoring in Dave Monahan... ("Mexican Joyride", "Catch As Cats Can" PLUS "Nothing But The Tooth" and "The Rattled Rooster") will honestly set one's head aflame :p The REAL scoop (if you must know) is that Monahan quit Warners in EARLY 1946 bouncing directly to Screen Gems. The first Columbia cartoon to bear his name didn't usher forth till a full two years later (early '48), by which time both the Art Davis unit :( :mad: and Screen Gems Studio were closed... :( :mad: And comparing dates will tell us that the backlog at Screen Gems was similar but not quite as big as at Warners ("Topsy Turvey"-Feb. while "Rattled Rooser" -June '48).

And lastly one of my favorites, Sid Marcus. Iffffff the Screen Gems Studio was really shuttered by the end of 1946 and Art Davis succeeded in getting him hired at Warners shortly after that, then there's really not much conflict between the two Warner's toons ("Bye Bye Bluebeard" & "A Ham In A Role") and the final batch of Columbia cartoons. Again it's a function of the backlogs of cartoons laid up by the studios (plus the ongoing slowness at Technicolor). [And as I've mentioned before, I see strong signs of Art Davis in "A Ham In A Role" despite it being credited to McKimson, with Cornett Wood receiving credits for layouts].

[Steve Carras]

So "Bacall To Arms" could of been written by George Hill since he wrote Art Davis' "Mouse Menace" and probably "The Goofy Gophers" and "The Foxy Duckling" before William Scott and Llyod Turner joined. (their first cartoon being "Doggone Cats", I presume) But didn't George Hill aslo write "A Pest That Came To Dinner" that was made after "Doggone Cats? There's another thing that bugs me, Dave Monahan also wrote for Davis' unit ("Mexican Joyride", "Catch As Cats Can") as well as Sid Marcus ("Bye Bye Bluebeard" and "A Ham In A Role", the latter being a Robert McKimson cartoon.) while they were still working for Screen Gems. :confused:I'd like to point out..wasn't Tom Turk in the 1944 short Billy Bletcher (whose Papa bear voice,then by Mel Blanc would be taken over him and who wasn't in a villianous role here, before Mel would also do the Davis turkey)..

Also, "Pest that came to dinner" (9/11/48) was only RELEASED after "Cats as Cats Can" (12/1947)--John Carey's presence as an animator , most notable among these factors,in a Dasvis short indicates it was made preivously..and Technicolor processed and ptinyted this while Cinecolor took care of "Doggone Cats"(which, as a result wound up in the pre-48 library vis a vis "Pest" which was released a year later and was one of the first post-1948s releasded). "Cats" had the animation team of Don Williams, J.C."Bill" Melendez, Basil Davidovich,and Emery Hawkins like post-1948 Davis shorts save for "Pest that came.." That is one of the most notable factors,till wer find out the ORIGINAL prod.number under the shieldf(NOT the BLUE RIBBON reissue) that makes it a likely xcandidate for one of the earliest post-1948 library shorts produced, as well as one of the earliest released.
(Note I just saw Sogturtle finally also ntoed this and beat to me..just like the toitle..!! )
Check Dave Mackey's
http://www.davemackey.com/animation/wb/1947.and http://www.davemackey.com/animation/wb/1948. modules in his Looney Tune site and look at the titles(be sure to check for the Cinecolor shorts, prod.no's.& MP(D)AA numbers are also possible indicators though their order does not always go hand in hand with the chornology of the prod.nos).Dave has found the original prod.#s for a handful of shorts for Blue Ribbons (with and without credits)(though a few have been restored--the ones with no credits either and in fact Jones's "Canyon Kiddies" has BOTH blue Ribbon and non-BR)--"Daffy Duck Hunt" hasa been found to no.1078 a http://www.davemackey.com/animation/wb/1949.html here, near top.

BTW I just now saw "Cats as Cats Can",not "Doggone Cats" (do you ever get those mxied uP?) was the cat toon mentioned above..hence any changes on my huge paragraph above..still of course I use"Cats" as the short nickname as use "Doggoen Cats" as a example of a Cinecolor short to prove my point and Soggy's. (BTW "Doggone Cats":and other later pre-1948 WB shorts CAN be used, when it comes to Davis and his later animation team, to contrast versus "The Pest that came to Dinner")


And, Sogturtle, BTW get well soon, and asof July 14, 2007, CINECOLOR was used for "Doggone Cats" [10/11/47].

BTW RIP Kenny Delmar since 1984 today (1910-1984)

[Sogturtle]

I might as well add this (you won't read it anywhere else :) )... The Arthur Davis cartoon 'Doggone Cats' is a fine example of "There's something screwy going on around here"... What am I referring to you ask??? Just this... As I mentioned earlier the 1948 RELEASE Davis films ("Nothing But The Tooth", "The Rattled Rooster", & "The Pest That Came To Dinner") were released up to 2 1/2 years after being written. Buuuuut in the Copyright Catalog, Emery Hawkins is clearly credited as animator on the 1947 release "Doggone Cats"... You don't see the problem yet??? ;) It's just this... Emery Hawkins left Disney's employ at the very end of Oct. 1946!!! What this means is that this cartoon ("Doggone Cats" rel. Oct. 1947) was rushed into production, through animation and camera to Technicolor, bypassing a number of others that were sitting around waiting to be finished and for the Kalmuses to get around to them (logically it should've come out in early 1949!!). WHY Art Davis and Warners would do this is unknown (at present) but coincidentally it appears to be the very first cartoon written by Lloyd Turner and Bill Scott... Was this the real reason for it being pushed AHEAD in production and into release, to show off the new writing team? (Furthermore "Nothing But The Tooth" and "The Pest That Came To Dinner" show the layout artist as being Don Smith, which means that the completed storyboards languished till after Tom McKimson had already left Warners).

It should also be pointed out that it ALMOST APPEARS that Davis was finishing up Clampett's last cartoons in the huge time gap represented in 1947 between "Goofy Gophers" and "The Foxy Duckling". This gap is a whopping 8 (EIGHT) months in length without a single Art Davis cartoon being released!!! What this would POSSIBLY translate as meaning that Art's first two cartoons ("Mouse Menace" and "Goofy Gophers") were rushed through production...even while three perfectedly good stories lay in a cupboard or on a bulletin board.

[Thad Komorowski]

Just out of curiosity, Soggy, how many films did Hawkins animate on at Disney, and how do you detect his style? I'm almost 99% sure that he was credited on 1948's "The Trial of Donald Duck" (which proves that Disney REALLY backlogged their cartoons...).

I'm also interested where Hawkins went to after 1950 or so... He seems to have disappeared from Lantz, Warners, and Disney all together...

[Sogturtle]

Just out of curiosity, Soggy, how many films did Hawkins animate on at Disney, and how do you detect his style? I'm almost 99% sure that he was credited on 1948's "The Trial of Donald Duck" (which proves that Disney REALLY backlogged their cartoons...).

I'm also interested where Hawkins went to after 1950 or so... He seems to have disappeared from Lantz, Warners, and Disney all together...


Thad~

Sorry for my delay... I'll answer the last question first (hey! variety and all :p ). After leaving Warners in about 1950, Emery concentrated his talents (unfortunately) on commericals for most of his remaining long career. He would never again work for one of the 'three major' studios as long as he lived. Mercifully there were some exceptions to his commercial career including some animation done for the John Sutherland Studio, as well as some for fellow-former Disneyite John Hubley (very late '50's). One of the two Hubley films he worked on ("The Tender Game") paired him with another great-old Warner (and Disney) animator--Bob Cannon. Some years later his old Art Davis unit associate Bill (J.C.) Melendez lured him to come animate on the feature "Snoopy Come Home" (1972). This is somewhat ironic in that Emery was animating on this film alongside the very man he replaced in the Davis unit... a guy by the name of Rod Scribner! Hawkins predictably returned to making commercials, but Richard Williams got him to animate (very memorably) on the feature "Raggedy Ann and Andy" (1977).

Our good bud Larry T. is the one to describe and comment on Emery's animating and drawing style, Larry can detect it in a heartbeat. Ohhhhhh Larry...!!!

On the main question of HOW MANY Disney toons have animation by Hawkins, it's a little peculiar to delineate. I believe the number to be about 18-19. The reason it's hard to be positive is this, Emery worked at Walt's no fewer than THREE different times (they recognized talent). His first cartoon shows up a full year after he was hired, then there's a strange 8 month gap till his next one. The early part of his career was spent working for Jack King, while the second part was under Clyde Geronomi. The main batch of cartoons commenced in early April 1940 and continued unabated till some months after he was fired, er uhhhh, "laid off". In the Fall of '45 he returned to the house of mouse and stayed a little over a year, the entire time being spent again working for Jack King. Reportedly the toon "The Trial Of Donald Duck" was just starting when Walt imposed a freeze on shorts production. Jack King retired, Emery Hawkins jumped to Warner Bros., and the short was finished later by Charles Nichols (boooooo!!!). The list of animators I'm looking at is indeed a weird mixture of the King and Nichols units, but Hawkins name is not listed there...

Hey Larry!!! Do you see his animation in "The Trial Of Donald Duck"???

Lastly there was a VERY STRANGE anomaly in Emery Hawkins Disney career... After being fired/laid off in 1941 and going to work for other cartoon studios, suddenly TEN months later Walt had him come back to work!!! The story gets weirder and weirder with him being laid off again only 6 weeks later! Annnnnnd NO short (that I'm aware of) lists him as animating on it for the expected period of release. This creates questions like... "Did he work on a short that was subsequently scrubbed??? ORRRRR even more intriguing... "Had Emery been animating on a feature when fired and then was called back to complete his work on it...??? (NO feature of the period bears his name, but notably he animated on 6 shorts in 1940, but only 4 in '41...).