Gundams

[OmegaX80]

Whatever happened to the rumor that Cartoon Network would be airing Zeta Gundam, ZZGundam, and the return of Gundam Stardust Memory?


Anyone know whats going on with these?

[Keiichi]

The rumors about Zeta coming to CN have pretty much died since there have'nt been any facts to back them and ZZ is'nt even liscesend yet. Zeta will be coming out next year on DVD in boxset form with individual DVD's to follow.

[William C. Maune]

Considering that the Z Gundam DVDs still aren't coming out until sometime next year, if it is going to be picked up by someone Bandai probably doesn't want to televise it yet.

[Anime Guy]

Has there been any mention of either of these airing on Adult Swim?

[Neo-Era]

With the lack of Zeta news lately, the delay of the toyline (being scaled back, if I recall what they said in the latest Toyfare), and the positioning of SEED as the big Gundam show of 2004, I'm becoming pessimistic about Zeta hitting the airwaves at all.

[Beat]

Crap. :( SEED will be a natrual success, because it follows the kiddie GW style. I can tell.

Zeta, which is the better show, probably won't air. Damn the Cartoon Network and stupid fans who hate new animation.

[William C. Maune]

While it's out that Bandai is getting Gundam SEED, has there actually been any word that it is coming in 2004? I can't see them trying to market 3 major Gundam properties (SD, Z and SEED) within the span of 1 year. While they to target different demographics, there is still going to be significant overlaps just because they are all Gundam. I wouldn't expect to see SEED until March 2005 at the earliest.

[Mysteryinfoman]

Was there not a think a poster who said or a report who said that Zeta had no tv deal for now, I think I read somewhere.

[William C. Maune]

I believe I read the same thing, but that doesn't mean it won't have a TV deal in the future. Considering that Bandai won't even be ready to release the DVDs for awhile yet, they may not be too worried about a TV deal yet.

[Keiichi]

Crap. SEED will be a natrual success, because it follows the kiddie GW style. I can tell.

How dose seed follow wings "kiddie" style. Have you even watched it?


Zeta, which is the better show, probably won't air. Damn the Cartoon Network and stupid fans who hate new animation.

Should'nt that be they hate old animation instead of new animation. ;)

[Artemis]

How dose seed follow wings "kiddie" style. Have you even watched it?





Probably means that SEED has bishounen and flashy robot battles so the kids'll love it. 'Course I don't consider that "kiddie style" as much as it is "mainstream style". Which isn't a bad thing as long as the show is good.

[Beat]

Should'nt that be they hate old animation instead of new animation. ;)

DOH!

You're right. That's what I meant to say.

[Duke]

I thought Bandai was going to release Zeta as a Movie Trilogy in the U.S. with new animation so it'll do better. :confused:

[okendri]

While it's out that Bandai is getting Gundam SEED, has there actually been any word that it is coming in 2004? I can't see them trying to market 3 major Gundam properties (SD, Z and SEED) within the span of 1 year. While they to target different demographics, there is still going to be significant overlaps just because they are all Gundam. I wouldn't expect to see SEED until March 2005 at the earliest.

Well there was a report from Video Store Magazine that Seed would be coming out sometime in the 2nd or 3rd quater along with GITS:SAC and Wolf's Rain. Of course this could change if the dubbing studios are switched again like Zeta.

There are plans for the movie version like MSG, but that isn't planned to start until next and the plans for the boxset are already in motion.

[RedTail]

and the return of Gundam Stardust Memory?

I don't think 0083 is ever coming back. The only way I can see that happening is if WS started playing something other than reruns after 2AM. Then we could all possibly enjoy 0083 in the coveted 4:30AM timeslot. It's unfortunate too. Despite the obvious flaws in the series, I still enjoy it.


Was there not a think a poster who said or a report who said that Zeta had no tv deal for now, I think I read somewhere.

Jerry's already said there's been no TV deal and that they haven't really sought one out as of yet.


I thought Bandai was going to release Zeta as a Movie Trilogy in the U.S. with new animation so it'll do better.

I'm sure it'll be remastered, but it's not going to be released as a movie trilogy. Bandai already announced the release for early 2004 (probably February or March) in the form of a box set.


There are plans for the movie version like MSG, but that isn't planned to start until next and the plans for the boxset are already in motion.

Hmm, a redub of the trilogy would be nice. Too bad it isn't coming sooner because the VP of my anime club is demanding I show all of MSG. That'll take 11 weeks at the rate we're going... Might need to add an extra day to our schedule so I can cut that number in half.

[Neo-Era]

I'm sure it'll be remastered, but it's not going to be released as a movie trilogy. Bandai already announced the release for early 2004 (probably February or March) in the form of a box set.

Duke's talking about the long-rumored Zeta Gundam compilation. These aren't officially announced yet so there's not much point in bringing them up in this thread.

Anyway, for those who haven't seen it, someone on Usenet (http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.anime.gundam&selm=20031120171444.00947.00000695%40mb-m28.aol.com) posted something from the letters column of the latest Toyfare magazine. A reader asked about the Zeta toyline and Toyfare responded with:


Currently neither Zeta nor Seed have been locked into the Cartoon Network schedule, but it looks as though Seed will come first. However, that doesn't mean Zeta toys are out and Seed toys are in - far from it. "The toylines have always followed the series that's been on Cartoon Network, but we've actually kind of gotten away from that," she says. "We assume that the fans pretty much know about Gundam and whatever looks cool is what they're going to buy."

With that in mind, Bandai will release both Seed and Zeta toys at the same time in Spring 2004. "We're releasing more of the Seed than we are of the Zetas, because Seed is going to be on Cartoon Network for sure," she says. "We've scaled back on releasing some of the Zeta Gundam stuff, but we are going to release some characters." However, if Cartoon Network changes its mind, more Zeta toys are ready to go.

The woman being quoted is Bandai rep Sandra Leo, BTW.

[Sheamon]

The rumors about Zeta coming to CN have pretty much died since there have'nt been any facts to back them and ZZ is'nt even liscesend yet. Zeta will be coming out next year on DVD in boxset form with individual DVD's to follow.

It wasn't a rumor, it was officially stated by Bandai at Toyfair in February. But the fact that they got multiple things wrong there (talking about the deceased Midnight Run and Adult Swim Saturday night) and that it was before the switch of dub studios doomed it to failure. ZZ has never been mentioned by Bandai of America at all.


While it's out that Bandai is getting Gundam SEED, has there actually been any word that it is coming in 2004? I can't see them trying to market 3 major Gundam properties (SD, Z and SEED) within the span of 1 year. While they to target different demographics, there is still going to be significant overlaps just because they are all Gundam. I wouldn't expect to see SEED until March 2005 at the earliest.

Remember, Zeta is the 2003 show, we're just not getting it til 2004 :p Things are jammed in 2004 because we got nothing in 2003 except that SD garbage which isn't real Gundam in the first place. And they really went overboard in 2001, releasing (if I remember correctly) 5 different Gundam shows on DVD witH MS Gundam, 0080, 0083, 8th MS Team and Endless Waltz. Going with SD, Zeta, SEED and F91 in 2004 will still be less than that year :P

My personal opinion? SEED will definately be out in 2004, but I think the expected released date from both the fans and the couple of reports out there are a tad optomistic. G Gundam was delayed by a switch in dub studios after casting was completed. Zeta Gundam was delayed by a switch in dub studios after casting was completed. Information is so sketchy on F91 I have no clue who did that so can't really comment on it. But going by history its certainly a possibility that the same will happen (it might have already happened @_@) to SEED, delaying it by multiple months at least. My current estimate, assuming there are no major problems is that we'll see it on the air starting in August, with the DVDs premiering in Nov/Dec 2004.

I also predict, going on history, that we will eventually see both Zeta Gundam and F91 Gundam on Toonami(unlikely) or Adult Swim(likely) sometime in the future. Every single animated Gundam series that has ever been released in the US has been shown on CN. From Wing to Endless Waltz to MS Gundam to the 3 OYW Ovas to G, to CCA, to SD, etc... Why stop with Zeta? The animation may be old, but that hasn't stopped CN in the past with other shows. Granted, I don't think we'll see it early in the year, 0080 and 0083 ran on CN 2-3 years after their American release so it might be a while, maybe not til they start the individual DVD releases as opposed to the box set. But I'm still confident that we'll see it eventually on CN.

[GWOtaku]

posted by Beatdigga:

Crap. SEED will be a natrual success, because it follows the kiddie GW style. I can tell.

No, you can't. You clearly haven't seen much or any of SEED. The tone and storyline are quite different, and resemble traditional UC gundam as much as any alternate universe (it also does a good job of establishing some of its own innovations).


Zeta, which is the better show, probably won't air. Damn the Cartoon Network and stupid fans who hate old animation.

And then there are the ans that reflexively hate new animation before they even see it because naturally, old school is always superior.

Just chill. SEED airing first doesn't preclude Zeta's airing at all, and so far every Gundam series licensed by Bandai has been on CN at one point or another. Both will be great shows, and I'm greatly anticipating both. And while dismsising Zeta due to its age is dumb, its just as bad to write SEED off the way you are.

[William C. Maune]

Remember, Zeta is the 2003 show, we're just not getting it til 2004 :p Things are jammed in 2004 because we got nothing in 2003 except that SD garbage which isn't real Gundam in the first place. And they really went overboard in 2001, releasing (if I remember correctly) 5 different Gundam shows on DVD witH MS Gundam, 0080, 0083, 8th MS Team and Endless Waltz. Going with SD, Zeta, SEED and F91 in 2004 will still be less than that year :P

While 2001 will end up with more total series, I think the current crop will end up being more Gundam time, footage, whatever you want to call it. MSG was a full length series, but 0080 was only 6 episodes; 0083, 13 episodes; 08th MS Team, 12 episdoes (11 televised) and 3 episodes of Endless Waltz. Currently though SD Gundam will have 52 episodes, both Z and SEED are full length series and I don't know much about F91. While I'm sure the shear number of Gundam series would make the 2001 era harder to market in some respects, the current crop of Gundam stuff has a lot more footage/episodes to work with. I'm not exactly sure what point I am trying to make, but it is something to consider.

The new Toyfair news definitely sound interesting, but I'm quite wary due to that previous Feburary Toyfair report. Considering that Gundam SEED probably is an easier sell than Z, I wonder if Bandai is trying to sell them as a package deal. For instance maybe they'll give CN a good deal on SEED for the fall, if CN agrees to also pick up Z and give it at least a run this Spring. Plus, I would bet that Bandai does have some leverage in trying to get Z on the air on CN since I bet TechTV would jump at the chance to get a piece of the seemingly exclusive to CN Gundam shows.

[Beat]

Just chill. SEED airing first doesn't preclude Zeta's airing at all, and so far every Gundam series licensed by Bandai has been on CN at one point or another. Both will be great shows, and I'm greatly anticipating both. And while dismsising Zeta due to its age is dumb, its just as bad to write SEED off the way you are.

Zeta is considered the best of the UC Gundam series, with V in second. That's why I want it to air first.

[William C. Maune]

I thought 0080 was considered the best of the UC series?

[Beat]

You haven't seen Zeta. Tomino at his finest.

[Duke]

I've seen more people against 0080 than for it.

[ohmrbill]

Zeta is considered the best of the UC Gundam series, with V in second. That's why I want it to air first.

That's odd, because most Gundam fans I know consider V to be one of the worst. So far even as to label it as being Tomino's attempt at killing the Gundam franchise.

Zeta's certainly good, but that doesn't mean you should write off SEED until you've seen it. If anything, the success of SEED here would increase the chances of Zeta airing because it would take some of the attention away from the ultra-kiddie SD Gundam and back on series with mature storylines.


I've seen more people against 0080 than for it.

Depends on where you ask.

[Beat]

I haven't seen SEED. I'll judge it when I see it, I guess. But after reading some varied reviews, I have some doubts.

[Anime Guy]

I thought 0080 was considered the best of the UC series?
I love 0080. It reminds me of FLCL. Al crying at the end and the music made me sad.

[Neo-Era]

That's odd, because most Gundam fans I know consider V to be one of the worst. So far even as to label it as being Tomino's attempt at killing the Gundam franchise.

When V first aired, there were fans trying (incorrectly) to slap the "ZZ-wannabe" label on it but I don't see any widespread dislike of it these days. Most of them haven't seen the thing at all as far as I can tell. I think Western Gundam fans know less about V Gundam than any of the other Gundams (not including the old SD's, Green Divers, and other stuff even most Japanese fans haven't watched).


Zeta's certainly good, but that doesn't mean you should write off SEED until you've seen it. If anything, the success of SEED here would increase the chances of Zeta airing because it would take some of the attention away from the ultra-kiddie SD Gundam and back on series with mature storylines.

I guess that's the best case scenario if CN doesn't snap up Zeta soon. When SEED inevitably hits it big, maybe CN execs will be drooling and wanting to grab anything else with the Gundam name on it for the airwaves and Bandai will be dangling Zeta over their heads and saying, "Well, there's just this one Gundam series you haven't shown yet that we have all ready..."

As far as this tiny SEED debate goes, the first half of the show does cop the old UC-feel better than the other alternate universe shows but after the Freedom Gundam shows up, there's definitely an over-the-top, AU-style, give-everyone-a-Gundam, blow-up-10-mecha-at-a-time action vibe. Even the director says that he feels things like the Strike and Freedom are less like "mecha" and more like "super robots".

[GWOtaku]

I guess that's the best case scenario if CN doesn't snap up Zeta soon. When SEED inevitably hits it big, maybe CN execs will be drooling and wanting to grab anything else with the Gundam name on it for the airwaves and Bandai will be dangling Zeta over their heads and saying, "Well, there's just this one Gundam series you haven't shown yet that we have all ready..."

Exactly. :D Although admittedly, I'd probably see Zeta sooner rather than later too since I know exactly what happens in SEED already and all I know about Zeta is what I read at Gundam Project (damn I miss that place)


As far as this tiny SEED debate goes, the first half of the show does cop the old UC-feel better than the other alternate universe shows but after
the Freedom Gundam shows up
, there's definitely an over-the-top, AU-style, give-everyone-a-Gundam, blow-up-10-mecha-at-a-time action vibe. Even the director says that he feels things like the Strike and Freedom are less like "mecha" and more like "super robots".

Hmm. Well, if they're "super robots," they certainly aren't in the same sense that the Gundams in Wing were. The Gundams Freedom and Justice are uber powerful and Kira's is quite possibly the most kickass Gundam I've seen, right up there with Amuro's Nu Gundam in Char's Counterattack and Heero's Wing Gundam Zero (maybe Zeta Gundam will make the list once I see it in action). Still, even with Kira & Asuran going at full potential, they're often very hard put to it. There's no "I have the Zero system so I can beat everyone" thing going on.

[Sheamon]

The thing I worry about SEED is that releasing it so early as compared to other Gundam shows might end up back firing on them when it comes time to release the other AUs like Gundam X and Turn A Gundam. Impress the kids so much with the recent animation (although I'll admit right now I can't stand the style used for the characters. Give me Zeta Gundam anyday, I don't care that its from 1985. The males all look too much alike and outside of Frey none of the girls are attractive -_-) and flashy mecha and it might spoil them. So when X comes out none of the kids are interested cause the animation isn't 'cool' enough. Shouldn't affect the older stuff as much since those should have huge backing by the older fans and wouldn't interest those younger fans as much in the first place, but I can see it possibly being a problem for the newer stuff.

[RedTail]

I've seen more people against 0080 than for it.

Just the opposite here. Although I can why some people wouldn't like it. The music sounds like it was played on a MIDI keyboard, there's usually only one or two short action sequences each episode, and the story focuses on a young boy and zeon soldiers rather than the Federation and a Gundam. For me, the beauty of 0080 is pretty much all in the story and characters. And I really, really like the GM Command and GM Sniper II, heh.


When V first aired, there were fans trying (incorrectly) to slap the "ZZ-wannabe" label on it but I don't see any widespread dislike of it these days. Most of them haven't seen the thing at all as far as I can tell.

"ZZ-wannabe"? Granted I've only seen the first 6 episodes and have read bits and pieces about the show, but V doesn't behave at all like ZZ. I guess if you mean it in the sense the fans were just writing it off as a piece of crap like ZZ. The only thing bad about the show so far are the crappy BESPA MS designs. Plus, everything transforms for into 2 or 3 separate components. EVERYTHING. Even mass produced suits...

[Space Cadet]

The thing I worry about SEED is that releasing it so early as compared to other Gundam shows might end up back firing on them when it comes time to release the other AUs like Gundam X and Turn A Gundam. Impress the kids so much with the recent animation (although I'll admit right now I can't stand the style used for the characters. Give me Zeta Gundam anyday, I don't care that its from 1985. The males all look too much alike and outside of Frey none of the girls are attractive -_-) and flashy mecha and it might spoil them. So when X comes out none of the kids are interested cause the animation isn't 'cool' enough. Shouldn't affect the older stuff as much since those should have huge backing by the older fans and wouldn't interest those younger fans as much in the first place, but I can see it possibly being a problem for the newer stuff.

I'm surprised Gundam X has come here first, then Z, and then SEED. Most fans think X sucks because it was cancelled even though the plot is much better than Wing.

[OmegaX80]

Whoa. Didnt realize i was going to start an eruption of debate!

This is fun.

Well, i hope we get a REAL gundamn series soon, because seeing SD Gundam and last years G-Gundam really got on my nerves. G-Gundam was terrible, but, it wasnt gundam. I want the saga, the suspense, the story, the sense of a legacy that is Gundam.

*cheap plug*

help me get my boards going! it is in no way competiton this site, its just my own thing going, just looking for some people to help "bring it to life!"

www.michaeldworkis.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi

[sl4]

*cheap plug*

help me get my boards going! it is in no way competiton this site, its just my own thing going, just looking for some people to help "bring it to life!"

www.michaeldworkis.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi

*cheap non-plug*

Let's not and say we, uh, didn't!

Personally, I'm waiting for SEED, Z, Vita*, and whatever the heck else they're bringing along, it's all good. :shrug:

*inside joke only three of us will understand =(

[GWOtaku]

posted by Sheamon:

The males [in seed] all look too much alike and outside of Frey none of the girls are attractive

Your taste in women worries me.

[RedTail]

*cheap plug*

help me get my boards going! it is in no way competiton this site, its just my own thing going, just looking for some people to help "bring it to life!"

www.michaeldworkis.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi

Put it in your signature.

[Juu-kuchi]

That's odd, because most Gundam fans I know consider V to be one of the worst. So far even as to label it as being Tomino's attempt at killing the Gundam franchise.

Funny. I thought Turn A Gundam was the one that tried to kill the franchise. I think V Gundam is pretty good.

SEED will definitely be airing first in 2004. Zeta may be great, but it's rather old age (sorry to say) would turn off people for one odd reason after the other.

And speaking of the 2nd half of the series.

I wish those METEOR things did not exist. I wanted those nuclear missles to hit a PLANT or two. Shouldn't it be the Earth Alliance to concede defeat to ZAFT since they're the ones that have been crippled thanks to the lack of balance of losses and all that? I'm not sure. If Fukuda and the production crew didn't mess around with the first half and plugged all these recap and flashback pieces, we'd have a better ending.

[ohmrbill]

Funny. I thought Turn A Gundam was the one that tried to kill the franchise. I think V Gundam is pretty good.

No, the rumor that V was Tomino's attempt at killing that franchise stemmed from the fact that Tomino was sick of doing Gundam shows for so many years at that time and just wanted to move on to something else. So he supposedly (according to the rumors) tried to purposely make a bad series so it would end and he wouldn't have to do it anymore (which did sort of work; V was considered to be a financial failure, and Sunrise started AU after that). Tomino actually like doing Turn-A, because Sunrise game him more freedom to do what he wanted with the series.

And note that all this is all coming from what I've heard/read, and NOT from my personal views of the series.

[okendri]

Wasn't Tomino going through a bout of depression when he was working on Victory?

I don't think so since Zaft suffered heavy losses at the Alaska base. IIRC Zaft lost 80 % of their forces there.

[Sheamon]

Your taste in women worries me.

Whats so unattractive about Frey? If you're talking about her personality, well she is a whacko but she's by far the most interesting (and my favorite) character in the show, one of the few redeeming qualities of the 30 or so episodes of SEED I've seen. I'm sorry, the other women of the show just don't interest me, especially the absurd Lacus.


Wasn't Tomino going through a bout of depression when he was working on Victory?

You could make the case that Tomino went through a period of depression for 15+ years. Starting in 1977 approximately half of Tominos shows end with either the entire cast dying or most of the cast dying by the end. Zambot 3, Space Runaway Ideon, Aura Battler Dunbine, Zeta Gundam, Char's Counterattack, Victory Gundam, etc... Has probably killed off more characters than any other anime director in history.

[Neo-Era]

Wasn't Tomino going through a bout of depression when he was working on Victory?

My understanding (and I could be wrong because it's been awhile since I checked) is that either during the production of V or immediately after, Tomino fell into a period of severe depression which he didn't come out of until around the time of Turn A Gundam. This period of time is chronicled in his autobiographical book "Cure Of Turn A".

More stuff that might be helpful reading:
Animerica conducted a good interview with Tomino in 1992, just before V Gundam was announced. You can see it in sample pages (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1569312206/ref=sib_rdr_ex/103-8386781-7599021?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S003#reader-link) for a book of collected anime personality interviews at Amazon.com. Tomino comes off as humble and even fairly self-critical. It's a very interesting read though you'll have to strain your eyes to make out the tiny sample page text and they only have about 3/4 of the interview up.

Also just posted at Gunota Headlines is a very nice interview with Mitsuo Fukuda. There's spoilers for SEED in it though.

[GWOtaku]

posted by sheamon:

Whats so unattractive about Frey? If you're talking about her personality, well she is a whacko but she's by far the most interesting (and my favorite) character in the show, one of the few redeeming qualities of the 30 or so episodes of SEED I've seen. I'm sorry, the other women of the show just don't interest me, especially the absurd Lacus.

Well, whatever moves you I guess. I'd withold judgement of Lacus, by the way--if the first 30 eps are so are what you've seen so far, you haven't seen her as she really is. Her personality as you saw it when she was on Archangel was in many ways a fiasad. Believe it or not, she ends up being rather important...

[Juu-kuchi]

Also just posted at Gunota Headlines is a very nice interview with Mitsuo Fukuda. There's spoilers for SEED in it though.

Yes people, go read the interview, not only is it nice, it showed what SEED could have been if they didn't mess it up so royally in the first part.

The ending would've been very tragic and perhaps very close to a level of Zeta or Victory proportions (but I wouldn't know other than what I've read about those final episodes...)

[Levon]

Zeta Gundam is my favorite anime, I hope to god it airs on AS and not Toonami.

I don't care about SEED that much but wouldn't mind seeing it on AS or Toonami.

[Beat]

It seems that no Gundam will air untill either late 2004 or 2005. :(

[duodemon]

I just wish CN would reair Mobile Suit Gundam again.

[Disco Pete]

I just wish CN would reair Mobile Suit Gundam again.So do I. Not that they will (I think the broadcast rights have expired), but if they did I'd be very happy.

[JetMaster5]

It seems that no Gundam will air untill either late 2004 or 2005. :(

*coughsdgundamcough* :D

[Beat]

*coughsdgundamcough* :D

That thing doesn't count.

[Eddy 2]

Zeta Gundam is the best Gundam TV series there is IMO, Gundam 0800 is the best OAV.

If Zeta Gundam aired it would probabrly have a problem of attartcing new audiences because of its old school ealry 80's animation. But if you look beyond that its one heck of a show. Unfortunately CN are most likely to go with SEED since its "shiny" and has the oh-so toonami-friendly message of "fighting for your friends is all that matters!".

If Zeta Gundam showed on Toonami i can forsee some major changes, for instance i have a feeling Camille's fathers mistress would become his "new best friend" or something lame like that, and i wonder if Kakrikorn will offer Jerid some "tea" to be smuggled in from Granada:)

and lets not forget the infamous Beer dispenser on the Aghamas crew room..or "Bear" machine as it was spelled in episode 3.

[Neo-Era]

and lets not forget the infamous Beer dispenser on the Aghamas crew room..or "Bear" machine as it was spelled in episode 3.

Ha! The "Light Bear" vending machine is classic Engrish. In some episodes, you see it corrected but in others it's still "Bear". This continues throughout ZZ. :cool:

[Eddy 2]

Ha! The "Light Bear" vending machine is classic Engrish. In some episodes, you see it corrected but in others it's still "Bear". This continues throughout ZZ. :cool:

oh well..at least Toonami wont have to censor it now if they get it :)

even funnier did you notice the warning on the sign of the posion gas canisters sais "Dangar" instead of danger? it even gets luminated at one point :sweat:

[DonkeyKongSnes]

is it just me or is sd gundum a total disgrace to all the gundum shows?

[Beat]

is it just me or is sd gundum a total disgrace to all the gundum shows?

If it's the SD Gundam on Toonami, then it's not just you.

[jethrek]

"That's odd, because most Gundam fans I know consider V to be one of the worst. So far even as to label it as being Tomino's attempt at killing the Gundam franchise."

This is generally said by fanboys who never watched past the first four episodes in my experience. It oepns rather funny, but it seems a very good series, although I've yet to finish it.

Zeta is by far the highest esteemed of the UC shows.

As for SEED, to follow an epic socio-economic drama like Turn A with complete fanboyish bishounen garbage like SEED was a real let down. SEED is by far the worst Gundam series yet, even beating out Wing and 08th MS Team for that spot. Fanboys delight, but a nightmare to anyone with the slightest taste. I haven't felt such an overriding urge to MST3K a show since Scryed...

[jethrek]

is it just me or is sd gundum a total disgrace to all the gundum shows?

The SD Gundam spoofs from the older days were great, but the Toonami Superior Defender SD Gundam sucked completely. If you ever get a chance to watch the original SD Gundams, you will laugh until your sides hurt.

[neoei3318]

The SD Gundam spoofs from the older days were great, but the Toonami Superior Defender SD Gundam sucked completely. If you ever get a chance to watch the original SD Gundams, you will laugh until your sides hurt.


I piss on Superior Defender. Nuff said.

I want my Z Gundam Boxset NOWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

[Duke]

SD Gundam's not THAT bad. It's not a Top 10 Gundam, but it is a fun little show that doesn't take itself too seriously. Hell, at least the annoying kids do more than the Transformers Armada kids.

[neoei3318]

"That's odd, because most Gundam fans I know consider V to be one of the worst. So far even as to label it as being Tomino's attempt at killing the Gundam franchise."

[/B] The reviews I read gave V Gundam good reviews. The only reason I see people hating it is the mech designs of the Zanscare Empire.

Zeta is by far the highest esteemed of the UC shows.

Damn Straight. So Why aint it on Adult Swim??!!

As for SEED, to follow an epic socio-economic drama like Turn A with complete fanboyish bishounen garbage like SEED was a real let down. SEED is by far the worst Gundam series yet, even beating out Wing and 08th MS Team for that spot. Fanboys delight, but a nightmare to anyone with the slightest taste. I haven't felt such an overriding urge to MST3K a show since Scryed...

I'll have to agree with you on SEED. This UC wannabe series dropped the ball with the multiple clip shows and the sloowww paced story line. The MS on both sides were too homogenous (plain) and lacked the originality. Yeah fanboyish styling may bring in the money and the ratings, but to a UC fan like me this series was weak.

[ohmrbill]

As for SEED, to follow an epic socio-economic drama like Turn A with complete fanboyish bishounen garbage like SEED was a real let down. SEED is by far the worst Gundam series yet, even beating out Wing and 08th MS Team for that spot. Fanboys delight, but a nightmare to anyone with the slightest taste. I haven't felt such an overriding urge to MST3K a show since Scryed...

Obviously the show had it flaws, but to say it's worse than Wing is a stretch (sorry, Wing fans).

[HellCat]

Whoa. Didnt realize i was going to start an eruption of debate!

This is fun.

Well, i hope we get a REAL gundamn series soon, because seeing SD Gundam and last years G-Gundam really got on my nerves. G-Gundam was terrible, but, it wasnt gundam. I want the saga, the suspense, the story, the sense of a legacy that is Gundam.



And since when did you become the expert on what is or isn't 'real' Gundam? G Gundam IS Gundam. The same goes for the recent SD series. Just because you don't like a series doesn't give you the right to decide it doesn't exisit.

[Levon]

And since when did you become the expert on what is or isn't 'real' Gundam? G Gundam IS Gundam. The same goes for the recent SD series. Just because you don't like a series doesn't give you the right to decide it doesn't exisit.


I'm a big UC fan but G Gundam I thought was the best AU. It was very diffrent & original from the UC. It wasn't some dumb rip-off copy of the UC with pretty boys. A great super-robot anime, sure it starts out lame but it gets so good later. Even I thought it sucked for a while.

G Gundam truly deserves to be called an AU Gundam.

[jethrek]

Obviously the show had it flaws, but to say it's worse than Wing is a stretch (sorry, Wing fans).

Having flaws would be far too kind to SEED. The show is a flaw. Wing had some saving graces.

P.S. God Gundam is actually very high on my list of favorite Gundam shows. Imagawa didn't waste any time imitating Tomino, and instead concentrated on what else could be done with Tomino's concepts.

[ohmrbill]

Having flaws would be far too kind to SEED. The show is a flaw. Wing had some saving graces.

Seed also as a multitude of "saving graces." One of which being that it actually had some depth to the characters, whereas most of the Wing cast was little more than a simple assortment of fangirl fantasies.


P.S. God Gundam is actually very high on my list of favorite Gundam shows. Imagawa didn't waste any time imitating Tomino, and instead concentrated on what else could be done with Tomino's concepts.

If you're trying to pass Seed off as just being a Tomino imitation then don't bother. They made no secret from the beginning that they were trying to introduce a new generation of fans to Gundam and they were going to do so by making a pseudo-remake of MSG. That's part of the reason they actually brought Tomino on board the staff of Seed as a consultant.

[jethrek]

Seed also as a multitude of "saving graces." One of which being that it actually had some depth to the characters, whereas most of the Wing cast was little more than a simple assortment of fangirl fantasies.



If you're trying to pass Seed off as just being a Tomino imitation then don't bother. They made no secret from the beginning that they were trying to introduce a new generation of fans to Gundam and they were going to do so by making a pseudo-remake of MSG. That's part of the reason they actually brought Tomino on board the staff of Seed as a consultant.

Actually, I was just commenting on G Gundam. My G Gundam comment had nothing to do with SEED.

I have to disagree with you though, I felt the SEED characters were absolutely awful- even compared to Wing.

Various directors and mangaka have been "remaking" the original for 20 years. This is solely for lack of imagination to do anything else. However, SEED stands out as the worst remake I've seen yet. Gundam Wing was largely also a remake of Zeta and the original, but had many more interesting moments and twists, and other truer series have also been very entertaining. The Gundam name is filled with projects as ambitious (and eomtimes even ill-fated) as Zeta, Victory, God, and Turn A, and frankly I have trouble even concieving how something absolutely completely unintelligent as SEED made it in there- except that stupid series are always good to turn out the masses if you pump out enough commercials.

[ohmrbill]

Actually, I was just commenting on G Gundam. My G Gundam comment had nothing to do with SEED.

I have to disagree with you though, I felt the SEED characters were absolutely awful- even compared to Wing.

Various directors and mangaka have been "remaking" the original for 20 years. This is solely for lack of imagination to do anything else. However, SEED stands out as the worst remake I've seen yet. Gundam Wing was largely also a remake of Zeta and the original, but had many more interesting moments and twists, and other truer series have also been very entertaining. The Gundam name is filled with projects as ambitious (and eomtimes even ill-fated) as Zeta, Victory, God, and Turn A, and frankly I have trouble even concieving how something absolutely completely unintelligent as SEED made it in there- except that stupid series are always good to turn out the masses if you pump out enough commercials.

You keep using vague terms such as "unintelligent" and "awful" without giving any specific examples, leaving me to believe you planned to hate the series from the very beginning, before you even watched it. I fail to see how the show is more unintelligent than, say... G Gundam. Explain that one to me. And whether you like the series or not, it's impossible to say SEED's attempt to create a new Gundam fanbase wasn't ambitious.

[jethrek]

You keep using vague terms such as "unintelligent" and "awful" without giving any specific examples, leaving me to believe you planned to hate the series from the very beginning, before you even watched it. I fail to see how the show is more unintelligent than, say... G Gundam. Explain that one to me. And whether you like the series or not, it's impossible to say SEED's attempt to create a new Gundam fanbase wasn't ambitious.

"Creating a new fan base" is a phrase not un-uttered for G Gundam, Gundam Wing, Gundam X, and even Turn A Gundam. Basically, it's just not a UC Gundam, blah.

Am I claiming G Gundam was the most intelligent Gundam series? It did have some very intelligent moments buried in it but it was a super robot show with cheesy attacks, a sentai team, and lots of energy behind its production. SEED did not have anything like its creative energy, was not as fun, and was not as original a take on the concept. Therefore, I forgive G Gundam for not being a detailed artistic drama, but I do not forgive SEED.

It's not like every Gundam must be original, intelligent, and energetic; but even one of those is gratifying.

Believe me, I did not go into G Gundam "expecting" it to be good. In fact, I was under the impression that G gundam should be absolutely horrible, with only one Indonesian guy I know insisting the opposite to be the case getting me to watch it.

SEED I was urged to watch by a lot of gundam fans long before it came out, and now many of those same fans turn around and decry it.

[HellCat]

I haven't had the chance to see SEED yet. Was hoping to be part of the fansub audience, but luck was against me. From what I've read, I'd say the cast are more 3D then that of Wing was though I'm not saying it's flawless (the clip shows are the biggest problem). A few months back I was willing to forgive these problems because we thought a sequel was coming. Now that Bandai have strangely apparently canned that in any form, I'd say SEED became a victim of the suits ordering it's pacing because they weren't sure what they wanted to do next.

[Keiichi]

jethrek you still have'nt given any examples as to why you hate seeds cast so much. Also you must have only seen the first 28 eps. The second half of the series is very good. Alot better than all 49 eps of wing(IMHO).

[ohmrbill]

"Creating a new fan base" is a phrase not un-uttered for G Gundam, Gundam Wing, Gundam X, and even Turn A Gundam. Basically, it's just not a UC Gundam, blah.

You used the term 'ambitious' and I was just pointing out that SEED was not any less ambitious than its predecessors.


Am I claiming G Gundam was the most intelligent Gundam series? It did have some very intelligent moments buried in it but it was a super robot show with cheesy attacks, a sentai team, and lots of energy behind its production. SEED did not have anything like its creative energy, was not as fun, and was not as original a take on the concept. Therefore, I forgive G Gundam for not being a detailed artistic drama, but I do not forgive SEED.

There's a flaw in your logic. You see, most of the things that you're hailing as being "creative energy" in G Gundam were actually the ideas of the suits at Sunrise (who just wanted G Gundam to sell a lot of toys) that Imagawa hated. Imagawa's original idea for the series was a tradition military-style Gundam series, but Sunrise shot it down.

You're forgetting that the primary audience of SEED was not long-time Gundam fans. It was people who had never seen the original series, or at least had not seen it in over 20 years. What I liked about SEED, as opposed to the other AU's, was that it went back to the UC-style roots of Gundam, which made it more interesting. No, I don't mean that it simply "copied" the events of MSG (because it took its own path in the second half of the series, anyway). What I mean is that it put the focus back on character interaction and drama, without skimping on the politics or action. I felt the other AU's were lacking in this regard (except maybe Turn-A, which I have not yet gotten the chance to see).

Although it had its flaws, I just found SEED to be a more entertaining series than the other AU's. You can rant about originality all you want, but in the end it's worthless if it's not entertaining.


I haven't had the chance to see SEED yet. Was hoping to be part of the fansub audience, but luck was against me. From what I've read, I'd say the cast are more 3D then that of Wing was though I'm not saying it's flawless (the clip shows are the biggest problem). A few months back I was willing to forgive these problems because we thought a sequel was coming. Now that Bandai have strangely apparently canned that in any form, I'd say SEED became a victim of the suits ordering it's pacing because they weren't sure what they wanted to do next.

While it is true that SEED was rewritten after that got the okay for a sequel (it was originally planned to be 52 episodes; plus I doubt they intended for there to be that many clip shows from the start), and now the idea seems to have been canned, I doubt the suits would be dumb enough to just forget about a huge commercial success like SEED. They may have scrapped their idea of having a second series, but I'm sure they'll at least give it a movie or an OVA or something.

[GWOtaku]

posted by HellCat:

Now that Bandai have strangely apparently canned that in any form, I'd say SEED became a victim of the suits ordering it's pacing because they weren't sure what they wanted to do next.

What???? Goddammit!

Where'd you hear this from? Are you saying they won't do Seed 2 EVER, or what?

They can't leave it like that, they just can't...its BEGGING for a sequel.

[HellCat]

What???? Goddammit!

Where'd you hear this from? Are you saying they won't do Seed 2 EVER, or what?

They can't leave it like that, they just can't...its BEGGING for a sequel.

I'm basing this on Gunota Headline's SEED 2 page. The rumour of a SEED 2 TV series next year was false and apparently so were the talks of the sequel being a movie.

[GWOtaku]

Dammit.

Dammit.

Well, maybe later.

Or maybe if the sequel is a really well done manga. I can accept that. MSG was good in manga form.

But damn, I REALLY hope they follow it up somehow, in some way before deciding to make some new standalone series. SEED was sure as hell popular enough in Japan, hell Gundam SEED characters make up like half of the top ten list in Newtype Japan's reader surveys. They'd be CRAZY to not continue!

[GWOtaku]

Jesus Christ, don't scare me like that.



Information related to the next Gundam series
1) July 1st, 2003 Nikkei MJ article

During the 3rd period company sales report announcement, Bandai President Takeo Takasu said, "A new series planned for the year 2005 will focus back to the original (ideals) in order to appeal to the core fans."

2) Sept 26th, 2003 Nikkei Sangyo Newspaper article (scan or same scan @ different img board)
CGO (Chief Gundam Officer) Kazunori Ueno stated after SD Gundam Force, the next Gundam series will likely appear 2-3 years from now (now as in 2003).

Information on the SEED movie - aka NO SEED movie
1) Originally there were reports of possible SEED movie. However, there are no report supporting any evidence of this. On top of this, Fukuda recently stated the movie plan was killed.

Information related to anything beyond the first season of SEED - Some call it SEED 2
1) Sunrise Representative Director Matsumoto's statement at San Diego Comic Con was likely a fan service and only reflected his personal opinions after seeing how popular Gundam was at the Con. Unfortunately, anime fans who heard his statements at the Con spread this word over the internet believing this series was a done deal.

2) Since SD Gundam Force will start airing in Jan 2004 for Japan, it is highly unlikely that SEED 2 will air during the same year simultaneously. A new series appearing 2-3 years from now seems more valid based on CGO (Chief Gundam Officer) Ueno's statements in Sept.

3) Addional Supplement: "It could be an OVA based on one of the plans. In America, Cartoon Network does show OVA at midnight. I heard nothing is confirmed yet." (#2)

4) On Oct 10th, 2003: Paratrick Model reported that there was a rumor about SEED 2 airing in June 2004 at Plamodel & Radicon Show 2003. A follow up to this rumor was mentioned at Pesu Kari HP which seemed to clarify this rumor. At the Bandai booth, Bandai was giving away a small Strike plamodel to those who answered their survey. The survey's last question was "If SEED 2 is created, what kind of MS/Character would you like to see?"

5) More details on SEED sequel have surfaced. From a fan's report of the "Gundam Floor" at the Laox store in Akihabara, Kenichi Nozaki, the music producer of SEED, stated "There are rumors of SEED sequel, but nothing has been officially decided."

Paratrick webmaster has retracted his original statement about SEED 2 airing in June. Here's the translation:

6) "Regarding the comment about SEED 2 starting in June... It appears likely not true. To put it bluntly, SEED seems finished.
More accurately, it was given an extension (i.e. go beyond its 1 year run) around the last part of 2nd cour (ep21-26). However, it was canceled and the show forcibly dashed toward its end. The last part of the story looked disorganized because SEED took a sluggish approach in the first half by adding clip shows. This move eventually made it impossible to air the planned ending. That's the story."


So nothing's decided, but they might still do it. And an "appeal to the core fans" approach doesn't exclude a sequel either. The extension was cancelled (so no season 2 in the traditional sense, I suppose), but a new series taking place in the same timeline isn't out of the question. So the news is that its not a sure thing, not that it won't happen. I can hope. :D

[GWOtaku]

posted by jethrek:

SEED did not have anything like its creative energy, was not as fun, and was not as original a take on the concept.

Er, yes it did. Did the whole natural/coordinator angle go right over your head? That is entirely original to Gundam. And not as fun? This isn't your much-adored G Gundam. An underlying theme in SEED--and most other Gundam series--is that war is hell, and the show communicates that (especially in the final episodes...the death count rivals that of Zeta's) Not that Gundam isn't supposed to be enjoyable, it is. But Gundam in general isn't some lighthearted fun fest that always has a happy ending. Its that way with G Gundam and apparently ZZ Gundam as well, but that's about it.

[Roger Smith]

i want to watch zeta not seed i Want Z only not some Gundam that has seeds i want gundams that has a Zeta

[Swordfish_II]

i want to watch zeta not seed i Want Z only not some Gundam that has seeds i want gundams that has a Zeta

Yes. Zeta Gundam. And the F91 movie. But mostly Zeta.

[Juu-kuchi]

I think SEED is miles ahead of Wing, and is my favorite UC show.

Even though it was highly flawed, I found the second half to be a phenomenal experience. It's just a shame that it wasn't like that all the episodes, and I wish we didn't have those recap episodes, but in the end I liked SEED.

Zeta is better though. I wish I could get more of it.

[Keiichi]

Seeds AU not UC though some rumors say Tomino did have some input on the second half of the series though.

[okendri]

Actually Seed was planned for 50 episodes. The mistake people make is that in the early part of Seed's run it was reported that Seed would run 52 weeks, but we didn't forsee the two weeks that Seed didn't air.

I doubt that a sequel would appeal to the core fans since even the people Bandai realize that the older fans are not too happy with Seed. They even go into this in one of reports over at Gunota headlines.

[Sheamon]

I haven't seen the heavily praised second half of SEED yet (watched up to episode 30 then stopped when it was rumored to be licensed) but I pretty much share the opinions that it was nothing special since the show just dragged so much (ten, fifteen episodes would pass and it would feel like nothing happened -_-), and the character and mecha designs (particularly those Zoids like dog mechas used by Andy Bartfield) disgusted me. Whats really a shocking read though is that interview with the director over at Gunota. Lines like this:


A: Dearka wasn't suppose to switch sides, but I made it happen since the sales of Buster Gundam were bad



I can say this now, but I wanted to make SEED as a robot story instead of a war story.

I have yet to see the second half though so I will hold off until I see that before making a complete judgement on SEED. It is one of the things I'm looking forward most next year with Z Gundam obviously #1.

[jethrek]

Er, yes it did. Did the whole natural/coordinator angle go right over your head? That is entirely original to Gundam. And not as fun? This isn't your much-adored G Gundam. An underlying theme in SEED--and most other Gundam series--is that war is hell, and the show communicates that (especially in the final episodes...the death count rivals that of Zeta's) Not that Gundam isn't supposed to be enjoyable, it is. But Gundam in general isn't some lighthearted fun fest that always has a happy ending. Its that way with G Gundam and apparently ZZ Gundam as well, but that's about it.

Assuming I've only seen G Gundam is a mistake. The only Gundam I've yet to see is Double Zeta. Natural/coordinator are just a new take on NEWTYPES. Furthermore, the WAR IS HELL theme IS in G gundam, despite a turnabout take on it. Happy endings? I mean, seriously. Take your foot out of your mouth, please.



There's a flaw in your logic. You see, most of the things that you're hailing as being "creative energy" in G Gundam were actually the ideas of the suits at Sunrise (who just wanted G Gundam to sell a lot of toys) that Imagawa hated. Imagawa's original idea for the series was a tradition military-style Gundam series, but Sunrise shot it down.


I'm not hailing the mecha designs in G Gundam one bit. With only a couple exceptions, I didn't care for G Gundam's mecha designs. I'm hailing what Imagawa did with them. Certainly, if a directory any less than brilliant had worked on G Gundam, it would have been far worse than SEED. Considering all in it going against it I am to this day surprised at how enjoyable a series it is.



What I mean is that it put the focus back on character interaction and drama, without skimping on the politics or action. I felt the other AU's were lacking in this regard (except maybe Turn-A, which I have not yet gotten the chance to see).


Not having seen Turn A, you're missing the primary reference point for my stance on Gundam SEED. :)

If Gundam SEED existed WITHOUT the other Gundam series existing, I obviously would have a wholly different take on it. Then again, if the first video game was Superman 64, would it not be amazing to play it, despite being often cited as the worst game of all time?

Also, why do a few of you think I think SEED should imitate G Gundam? I realize a lot of you have seen very little beyond MSG, G Gundam, and Wing (not counting omr in that at all as I know he's seen more), but I'm complaining because, and I quote, "As for SEED, to follow an epic socio-economic drama like Turn A with complete fanboyish bishounen garbage like SEED was a real let down." As for stupidity, Phase Shields literally making Gundams invincible was a bad start, battery-powered Gundams was a worse start, and the immensely itrritating dialogue and pretty boys were about the worst start. These seemed Gundam Wing bad, until I saw them in motion completely with slow-paced remakes of MSG scripts.

Fanboyish, bishounen garbage to the extreme.

[Neo-Era]

But damn, I REALLY hope they follow it up somehow, in some way before deciding to make some new standalone series. SEED was sure as hell popular enough in Japan, hell Gundam SEED characters make up like half of the top ten list in Newtype Japan's reader surveys. They'd be CRAZY to not continue!

The thing to remember about Newtype Japan is that, according to the editor-in-chief of the magazine himself, its readership's average age has dropped to 14-years-old (something he credits to the success of Gundam SEED). On the other hand, the fans that grew up with MSG and buy most of the more expensive Gundam-related merchandise are in their 20's and 30's and mostly don't care for SEED. Meanwhile, SD Gundam Force is going to begin airing in Japan next month. With the one-two punch of SEED (popular with chicks & teens) and SD Gundam Force (for kiddies), it seems that Bandai wants to do something now for the older fans. They're trying to balance three different audiences for one franchise. It'll be interesting to see how long they can keep this juggling act up for...

[ohmrbill]

Natural/coordinator are just a new take on NEWTYPES.

Only as far as their abilities being better than that of normal people and ZAFT = Zeon. The coordinator concept was different from that of the newtypes, as well as the their types of abilities. Whereas newtypes had psychic/ESP abilities, coordinators just have enhanced human traits. Also, Newtypes deal with human evolution, whereas coordinators deal with the issue of genetic altering and human cloning.


I'm not hailing the mecha designs in G Gundam one bit. With only a couple exceptions, I didn't care for G Gundam's mecha designs. I'm hailing what Imagawa did with them. Certainly, if a directory any less than brilliant had worked on G Gundam, it would have been far worse than SEED. Considering all in it going against it I am to this day surprised at how enjoyable a series it is.

I didn't mention anything about the mecha designs. The entire CONCEPT of G Gundam came from the corporate guys at Sunrise (it being a super robot show, the Gundam Fight, etc.), despite how much Imagawa complained how "stupid" it was. I will agree with you, however, that because of Imagawa the series was saved from becoming a total train wreck.


Not having seen Turn A, you're missing the primary reference point for my stance on Gundam SEED. :)

Indeed. But still, Turn-A was a special case (and unfortunately not very successful) so you can't expect to be able to judge future Gundam series by the standard. Wing, X, and the UC's, sure, but I wouldn't expect to see a series like Turn-A again any time in the near future.


As for stupidity, Phase Shields literally making Gundams invincible was a bad start, battery-powered Gundams was a worse start, and the immensely itrritating dialogue and pretty boys were about the worst start. These seemed Gundam Wing bad, until I saw them in motion completely with slow-paced remakes of MSG scripts.

Fanboyish, bishounen garbage to the extreme.

The phase shields didn't make the gundam anywhere near invincible; not unless you considered Amuro's RX-78 invincible. This was nowhere near the level of Wing's Gundams standing in the middle of a barrage of cannon fire and coming out unscathed. The gundams in SEED usually took a fair amount of damage in battle. And what exactly is wrong with Gundams being powered be distant future-level battery technology? Surely you don't mean it would be better to have them flying around with huge tanks of rocket fuel? The dialogue being irritating is a matter of opinion (yes, there was some bad dialogue, but most of it could be easily overlooked), but holding against the show that some of the characters are "pretty boys" is just plain narrow minded. This is anime, and in anime EVERYONE tends to be drawn on the attractive side.

And BTW, bishounen aren’t fanboyish, they're fanGIRLish. ;)


Whats really a shocking read though is that interview with the director over at Gunota. Lines like this:





I have yet to see the second half though so I will hold off until I see that before making a complete judgement on SEED. It is one of the things I'm looking forward most next year with Z Gundam obviously #1.

According to some of Tomino's interviews, it seems that things like that happen quite often in the Gundam franchise, even since the original MSG. Except before, such decisions were always forced on the directors by the sponsors and higher-ups (which is one of the reasons Tomino got sick of doing Gundam). Imagawa complaint about the same thing when he was doing G Gundam. However, one of the lessons Imagawa said he learned by the end of G Gundam was that things run much smoother and end up working out better when the director works with the sponsor, rather than against. SEED is an instance where the director was willing to work with the sponsor and I think it shows, as he was able to work such things into the plot (having Dearka switch sides worked out pretty well, as it forced them to put some development into a previously almost unnoticeable character), rather than having them be painfully tacked on. And as for the second qoute; the guy likes robots. There's nothing wrong with that. :)

Oh, but if you didn't like the first half of the series, Sheamon, then don't get too excited over the second half. You'll probably like it better, but it certainly won't blow you away.

[HellCat]

Jesus Christ, don't scare me like that.



So nothing's decided, but they might still do it. And an "appeal to the core fans" approach doesn't exclude a sequel either. The extension was cancelled (so no season 2 in the traditional sense, I suppose), but a new series taking place in the same timeline isn't out of the question. So the news is that its not a sure thing, not that it won't happen. I can hope. :D

Which is why I said apparently because we've only gotten word on the very recent rumoured plans to continue SEED, those being the SEED 2 TV series and a movie which a few behind-the-scenes types talked about.

[HellCat]

I haven't seen the heavily praised second half of SEED yet (watched up to episode 30 then stopped when it was rumored to be licensed) but I pretty much share the opinions that it was nothing special since the show just dragged so much (ten, fifteen episodes would pass and it would feel like nothing happened -_-), and the character and mecha designs (particularly those Zoids like dog mechas used by Andy Bartfield) disgusted me. Whats really a shocking read though is that interview with the director over at Gunota. Lines like this:





I have yet to see the second half though so I will hold off until I see that before making a complete judgement on SEED. It is one of the things I'm looking forward most next year with Z Gundam obviously #1.

The funny thing about that is that after switching, they started to pair him up with Milly in some bizarre union of the underdeveloped characters. But I shouldn't be saying that...*is the rare, elusive Milly fanboy*

As for the animal mecha, they've grown on me slightly. True they're very Zoid-like but it was a new idea for Gundam which is ruled by humanoid mecha. Hopefully though they'll remain the only example of such things in SEED.

[jethrek]

Indeed. But still, Turn-A was a special case (and unfortunately not very successful) so you can't expect to be able to judge future Gundam series by the standard. Wing, X, and the UC's, sure, but I wouldn't expect to see a series like Turn-A again any time in the near future.


Whiole a lot of fans have claimed Turn A did not rate highly, it's actual success is not totally sealed there. It seems to me it sold enough DVDs to encourage 2 Turn A Gundam movies. It's appeal was with older viewers, who watch on tv less, but buy more DVDs.

Tomino HAS claimed he has interest in doing another CC series in the future. Also, while series like Wing and SEED pull in big ratings, they don't make for franchise longetivity. Whether or not this is really a possibility though is of course still questionable.



Surely you don't mean it would be better to have them flying around with huge tanks of rocket fuel?


I prefer Minovsky reactors myself. Hell, if you really wanted to break from UC tradition, tap into Turn A's nanotechnology. They did, after all, briefly claim that SEED would be CC universe until it was painfully obvious it had no relation at all to CC.

[ohmrbill]

Tomino HAS claimed he has interest in doing another CC series in the future. Also, while series like Wing and SEED pull in big ratings, they don't make for franchise longetivity. Whether or not this is really a possibility though is of course still questionable.

Yes, Tomino has claimed that he has interest in doing more Turn-A; if Sunrise will let him, that is. And it's hard to say if SEED or Wing can pull any longetivity, seeing as they put a stop to Wing with Endless Waltz just as it was reaching the height of its popularity. Who's to say what would have been had they allowed it to continue?


I prefer Minovsky reactors myself. Hell, if you really wanted to break from UC tradition, tap into Turn A's nanotechnology. They did, after all, briefly claim that SEED would be CC universe until it was painfully obvious it had no relation at all to CC.

The UC Gundams weren't powered by Minovsky. The minovsky particle was a bi-product of the helium-3 fusion reactors, which they WERE powered by. I think the mobile suits loosing power mid-battle is an even trade-off for them causing catastrophic explosions when the get hit (though not nearly as cool :p).

And no, they never claimed it would be part of the CC universe. They only said that they would make sure it could fit into Turn-A's "all Gundams are connected" idea.

[GWOtaku]

posted by Jethrek:

Assuming I've only seen G Gundam is a mistake.

I didn't.


The only Gundam I've yet to see is Double Zeta. Natural/coordinator are just a new take on NEWTYPES.

Ohmrbill answered this adequately.


Furthermore, the WAR IS HELL theme IS in G gundam, despite a turnabout take on it. Happy endings? I mean, seriously. Take your foot out of your mouth, please.

G Gundam's conclusion is basically a "love conquers all" ending, and the finish is quite optomistc. The only reflection on war whatsoever is the fact that the Gundam Fight was made to prevent it. That's backstory, but hardly a driving theme. There was absolutely nothing depressing or ominous in G Gundam's concluding episodes.

[HellCat]

G Gundam's conclusion is basically a "love conquers all" ending, and the finish is quite optomistc. The only reflection on war whatsoever is the fact that the Gundam Fight was made to prevent it. That's backstory, but hardly a driving theme. There was absolutely nothing depressing or ominous in G Gundam's concluding episodes.

G's take on anti-war is present from the first episode where we're constantly shown how the Gundam Fight has affected humanity's mother planet (Domon's transport slams into a monument, Michello is allowed to do as he please because he is his country's fighter, parents abandoning or being lost to their children, etc). Humanity has chosen a year of destruction and death every 4 years over the random chaos of standard war. I'll be honest and say the Gundam Fight is a stretch as our the rules which govern it (the fact that Fighters can get away with killing random civillains in fights is something I could never see humanity agreeing to) but then when you look at how the more powerful countries see fit to treat the less powerful ones in our present time, maybe it's not. G may not have the clearest anti-war message, but I think it did well with what it had.

[jethrek]

I didn't.



Ohmrbill answered this adequately.



G Gundam's conclusion is basically a "love conquers all" ending, and the finish is quite optomistc. The only reflection on war whatsoever is the fact that the Gundam Fight was made to prevent it. That's backstory, but hardly a driving theme. There was absolutely nothing depressing or ominous in G Gundam's concluding episodes.


"This isn't your much-adored G Gundam." This sentence is inaccurate, as it suggests:

-I think other Gundams should mimick G Gundam. -

and

-I do not know what other Gundams are like.-

Furthermore, the entire story of G Gundam is a parable on war- if you missed this then Imagawa's direction was over your head. If you didn't you're wasting my time. :rolleyes:

If you could actually address my primary statement- that following Turn A with SEED was a let down- I might be able to take your statements seriously, but so far every post you have made is comparing G Gundam to SEED. Either you do not know what Turn A is, you have not seen Turn A Gundam, or you aren't paying attention to my posts and viewpoints and are instead looking for quotes to nitpick.

While I don't see eye-to-eye with him, at least I can commend ohmrbill as much as ever for having reasonable comments to make, I cannot for you. :shrug:

[RedTail]

Jerry answered my Zeta/F91 question during the chat today. I forgot to save the log so I'm going from memory. If anyone else has it, please post.

- The Zeta box is $198.98.
- F91 will be 2 discs in 1 release.
- F91 will get a limited theatrical release.
- There's still no TV deal for either series, but don't rule it out.

[HellCat]

Jerry answered my Zeta/F91 question during the chat today. I forgot to save the log so I'm going from memory. If anyone else has it, please post.

- The Zeta box is $198.98.
- F91 will be 2 discs in 1 release.
- F91 will get a limited theatrical release.
- There's still no TV deal for either series, but don't rule it out.

Thank you VERY much for this info. Looks like it was a smart move to ask for more hours at work. I wonder what justifies a 2-disc F91 release. Maybe the Crossbone Gundam manga will be on the second disc.

[Swordfish_II]

- The Zeta box is $198.98.
- F91 will be 2 discs in 1 release.

:drool:

Now if only we had release dates...