Batman VS Spider-Man: The One-Sided Fight!

[James Harvey]

Well, I think we're ready to give this debate another go. It's the age old question with a modern twist!

If Spider-Man (Peter Parker) had to fight Batman (Bruce Wayne), who would be the champion?

If anyone thinks this topic sounds familair, it's becuase we've sorta done this before. This was done over on the Batman Beyond board, with Terry facing down Spidey. It started out as a good conversation, but ended up as a debacle due to some problems. Anyways, the debate continues over there, and it seems people are still pretty divided! It's interesting stuff!

Just hop over to that board to read the original thread. Now, the question again:

If Spider-Man (Peter Parker) had to fight Batman (Bruce Wayne), who would be the champion?

[Tim Drake]

Its quite possible that Spidey could beat Batman. Because he's got spider agility, semi-super strength(He's not Superman but he can lift a car easily which is more than I've seen Batman do), the ability to climb walls with ease, and his spider sense. Oh yeah he's got webbing too.

While Batman is super strong or fast, he is considered at the peak a human being can be at. Like Captain America. While he doesn't have spider sense he has comporable intuitive reflexes. Batman has dogded bullets without a sixth sense. In some version of Batman like TNBA Batman can jump well over two stories so he can keep up with Spidey in an aerial battle with his grappling hook. Also, Bruce has been trained in the martial arts while Spidey is more like Supes he's got super strength so he hasn't honed his skills as much as he could. So on a fighting level they are probably fairly comparable except on the strength issue.

Where Batman has the edge is in his resources. His bolas, batarangs, and grappling hook are similar in use to spidey's web traps, impact webbing, and web lines. And we've seen Bats climb walls with his clawed gloves. Bats has his batmobile, batplane, batcycle, batboat, and his batcave with plenty of arsenal. Batman could take Spidey out of the sky with a couple missles. Or he could don an exo skeleton that would give him comparable speed and strength to Spidey.

And finally..... Spidey wastes too much time thinking of wisecracks. I can just see him mid sentence making some joke about Batman's wardrobe and being pummled in the face at the same time.

[svendawg]

If Batman knows Spidey's coming and has time to set something up? Batman. Give Batman time to set something up and he can take down *anyone.*

If there's no information advantage? Spidey. Just because he can take waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more punishment (having a skeletal structure of a rubber band will do that). Physical goes to Spidey, gimmicks are a slight edge to Bats (webbing's a nice way to even out the utility belt, combined with some of the stuff Spidey does inherently that Batman needs help with), and neither one has the home turf advantage given the "Gotham is New York at night" theory.

IMHO, Batman / Daredevil or Deadpool is a much more even matchup, or the aforementioned Beyond / Spidey. The powers cancel each other out better there.

[kid_flash]

I gotta agree that Spidey would win, if it were just spur-of-the-moment. While Bats could climb walls with some doo-hickey, he has to pull himself to each point, whereas I see Spidey as just walking on it like it were the floor. Other than that, everyone mentioned everything else I could think of.

[Joe Tully]

hmm...I think I need to agree with Svendawg. I know that I am coming across as a crazy Spidey fan, but I would really like to be able to say it is a draw, I like both characters. But Spidey is just at an advantage, simply because he has powers and Bats has none. I think that webbing up Bats would probably end it, unless Bats could get to a hidden knife or something, which could be hard if his hands are webbed to his side.

As Svendawg says, if Bats managed to escape a fight and set up plans against Spidey, he could very well beat Spidey. This is often how Bats wins, by having an advanced warning and planning ahead. The key to winning for Bats would be realizing that Spidey has his Spider-Sense, which he could possibly deduce if he did enough research. Then Bats could figure out some way to get around the Spider-sense. But if the two were tossed into a room and told to fight, I'd have to give it to Spidey.

Did these two fight in the Spider-Man/Batman comic? I don't think that they did, but I don't have it on me right now and haven't read it in a while.

[NewMaxFranklin]

I think Wolverine, Batman and Spiderman are the comic book equivalent to "rock-paper-scissors."

Batman and Wolverine have both beaten the Hulk, so they're pretty even in my eyes. I think Wolvie is tougher than Bats, but Bat's is a superior fighter.

Spidey took down all of the X-Men, Wolvie included, so he could certainly take Bats. But, Bats has a way of winning out over super-powerd foe's. I could see him messing with Spidey's "spider-sense" with a sonic wave, or something.

So; without special preperation:

Batman over Spider-man
Spiderman over Wolverine
Wolverine over Batman

~Dodges flying debris~

[Frozen]

Weeelll, I think Bats would win. For me, it doesn't matter if he's fore-warned or not, he is such a superior tactician and brilliant mind that he can out-think his opponent in a fraction of a second. Bats fought Captain America to a draw in Marvel vs DC, and, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the rationale behind Captain America the fact that he can beat anybody in the Marvel universe - 'cos that's just what he does'what he was created for, to be the ultimate soldier and fighting force.

Don't get me wrong, I love Spidey, and I'm luke-warm at best toward main-stream Batman, but, on the evidence I've seen in JLA, Bats is just unstoppable. To say he's just a normal guy at the peak of human fitness isn't enough anymore, I think. I feel he's eveolved way past that - I feel he now has an element of being a force of nature, a revenant - dark justice personified...

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by Frozen
I feel he's eveolved way past that - I feel he now has an element of being a force of nature, a revenant - dark justice personified...

The way I've regarded Batman recently is as the most dangerous individual in the DC universe. Remember that moment during No Man's Land when Superman stopped by Gotham? He wanted to get involved and help, Batman basically wanted him out of the city. Superman said that he wouldn't leave. At that point, Batman reaches for something on his belt and we actually see fear in Superman's reaction. It turns out it was just his batline, as he was about to leave. But for the briefest moment, Supes anticipated that Batman was going to use something against him. And there was definite fear in the Man of Steel.

For Batman to be able to strike fear in Superman, a fellow crimefighter...well that says something. I don't know how, specifically, but I guess I'd have to say Bats would defeat Spiderman somehow.

[kid_flash]

Oh, please. Batman has Kryptonite. Superman knows that. That stuff'll put the fear of God into the Man of Steel anyday.

And a note on Spider-Man's webbing: It has been said (I think it was AMAZING #32 or 33) that he has enough webbing to hold a two-ton truck. More than enough to pin the Dark Knight, suffocate him, starve him to death, whatever. Even if he finally figured out a way to get out a Bat-gadget (webbing's sticky as well as heavy, limits movement), Spidey would be right there to punch his lights out.

[svendawg]

Originally posted by kid_flash
Oh, please. Batman has Kryptonite. Superman knows that. That stuff'll put the fear of God into the Man of Steel anyday.

And a note on Spider-Man's webbing: It has been said (I think it was AMAZING #32 or 33) that he has enough webbing to hold a two-ton truck. More than enough to pin the Dark Knight, suffocate him, starve him to death, whatever. Even if he finally figured out a way to get out a Bat-gadget (webbing's sticky as well as heavy, limits movement), Spidey would be right there to punch his lights out.

Agreed. They're just at two different levels of power. On the overall scale (with the Silver Surfer being a 10 and someone like Dr. Mid-Nite being a 1), Batman's *maybe* a 3 while Spidey's a 5, easy. It's like any other speed-based hero trying to take down Flash; he just has too many ways to beat you. Superhuman strength, speed, agility and durability more than cancels out Batman's smarts. Plus, as I said, webbing cancels out the utility belt (hell, if it was all the trick webbing they gave Ben Reilly, I'd give Spidey the *advantage* in that department), and Batman *can't* ambush Spider-man. Precognisance - even Spidey's bizarre form of it - is a huge advantage.

Now, Batman in the Venom costume destroys Spider-Man (equals strength and durability, and neutralises Peter's spider-sense-enhanced fighting style). But that's really the only way to make the matchup competitive. It'd be like the Superman / Hulk showdown in Marvel vs. DC; Spidey can just beat Batman in waaaaaaaaaaaay too many ways. It's part of the reason the Batman books are so self-contained; he just doesn't match up well against supe/meta-human bad guys.

[Joe Tully]

I just remembered an interesting thing:

There was this one What If comic where the Punisher killed Spider-Man. What happened was, the Punisher observed Spidey and figured out that he had his Spider-sense. Then Punisher built a sort of Doc Ock dummy and somehow spread word to Spidey that Doc Ock was up to no good in this building. Spidey's spider-sense went off when he started approaching the dummy from a distance, but Spidey thought that it was because Doc Ock was the danger. Then, Spidey got close and found out the real reason for his sense going off--it was a dummy with a lot of explosives. The Punisher was watching and set off the explosives, killing Spidey. This is an example of how I think that Bats could beat Spidey--tricking his Spider-sense, letting it go off but not letting Spidey be aware what the exact problem is. I don't think that Bats could nullify it, but he could do something to trick it. But, anything like this would take a lot of research and advanced warning, and could be difficult because I believe that even more passive threats like spies set off his Spider-sense ("Invasion of the Spider-Slayers" in the comics...small spy robots set off small tingles in spidey-sense but Spidey was unable to determine the source.)

[svendawg]

I've actually got the issue in question, and it doesn't really portray Spidey as he's currently depicted. The catch is, now, there's different "levels" of the Spider-sense (as you alluded to with the robot example). So Spidey gets one sort of twinge if he's potentially walking into a dangerous situation - eg, into a room with Doc Ock - and another, much more painful sense if he's in physical danger, eg being shot at or in a room filled with explosives. I think they delved into the sense itself quite a bit in the decent "Doom's Day" series of novels, which featured Spidey fixing a machine just by using the various levels of precognition he comes armed iwth.

While this is one of the only ways I could possibly see Batman taking down Spidey, it's still *really* far-fetched, and needs a lot of setup time.

[virtual_alfred]

Batman always has a plan.

If he was surprized by Spiderman, he'd try to escape. But the next time they met, it'd be in Batman's web.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by kid_flash
Oh, please.

C'mon. Don't give me that. I'm one of those that thinks that Terry's Batman would beat Spiderman. I'm not saying Bruce is God. In fact, one of the things I've said one the BB boards is that Spidey would break Bruce's neck with one punch.

All I meant was to agree with Frozen's assessment of Batman being quite dangerous. He's only human, but it's the image he has. He strikes fear in people, and it has nothing to do with possessing kryptonite. Superman's worked and spoken with Batman on so many occassions. And like anybody that knows Batman even slightly, Superman isn't completely comfortable around him. Batman will do anything he feels necessary to stop someone/something if he feels justified.

Later in "No Man's Land" when Superman dropped by again, the two somehow got on the subject of Superman taking over, or attempting to takeover the world (did something like that happen in the comics?). Batman says "You're lucky I haven't run across that Kryptonite sample" or something to that effect. Superman seemed stunned, saying "You're joking, right?" Then, quiter, "That has to be a joke." Batman didn't answer, instead changing the subject matter. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, kryptonite was involved in that. But that's not what was so shocking. Bruce and Clark have known each other for years. They've worked together so many times that there's always been that trust between them. And yet, from Bruce's words to Superman, he'd have absolutely no problem with using the kryptonite on him. I don't know how well I conveyed the above scene, but if you've read it, you know what I'm talking about.

That's all I'm saying. Surely you guys have seen that from Bruce, and know the coldness of his attitude. I'm not saying he's superhuman. I'm not saying he's a supernatural force. I mean look at what Bane did to him. I'm aware the guy can lose. What I'm saying is that he's more dangerous than any other because of his ruthless efficiency. There's no one like Batman when it comes to that.

[Blight]

Talk about a good fight! This one would be really close. My first thought was that Bruce woulden't have a chance cause of Spideys' powers, but Bruce is actually much smarter than Spidey, and would likely set some traps for him, plus he has more training and experience than Spidey. And like Tim Drake mentioned, Spidey would be so busy making jokes that he woulden't notice Batmans' fists flying at him (Well, he does have his spider sense, but he woulden't even notice that because he'd be too busy making wisecracks!). Of course, Bruce would get pummeled alot in the process, but I still think he would win out in the end.

See ya!
Blight

[svendawg]

Now, I'm no Spidey fan, buuuuut...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blight
>> Talk about a good fight! This one would be really close

No, actually. It wouldn't. Certainly not for the reasons you say.

>> My first thought was that Bruce woulden't have a chance cause of Spideys' powers, but Bruce is actually much smarter than Spidey, <<

Um, while Bruce is probably much smarter than Spidey, Peter's a genius-level type of guy. Have to be to invent the web fluid. He's just more specialised than the "Who Wants To Be A Millionare"-type knowledge of everything Batman has.

>> and would likely set some traps for him, <<

Spider-sense cancels that out, and the only thing that trumps that is Venom or Carnage.

>> plus he has more training and experience than Spidey. <<

Training? Yes. Experience? No chance. Spidey started around 16; most people put Bruce's age when he started being Batman as around 30. Spidey's been in the game longer, in all likelyhood.

>> And like Tim Drake mentioned, Spidey would be so busy making jokes that he woulden't notice Batmans' fists flying at him (Well, he does have his spider sense, but he woulden't even notice that because he'd be too busy making wisecracks!). <<

I hardly think that, after countless years of telling jokes, Spidey would just be distracted *now.* The guy's beaten the crap out of people who Batman wouldn't stand a CHANCE against in a straight-out fistfight (Venom, Carnage, Juggernaut)

Bottom line, Spidey whomps Batman within a couple of minutes. Largely because Bruce can't hit hard enough to stop him. The Silent Palm strike ain't much use against a human rubber band. And he heals faster.

As I've said before, debate Batman vs. Daredevil. Spidey vs. Batman is the equivalent of any WWF guy against Barry Horrowitz.

-

[kid_flash]

Originally posted by DarkAngel


C'mon. Don't give me that. I'm one of those that thinks that Terry's Batman would beat Spiderman. I'm not saying Bruce is God. In fact, one of the things I've said one the BB boards is that Spidey would break Bruce's neck with one punch.


Sorry, I didn't mean any insult by it. And although I did read the first time Superman stopped by NML, I missed out on the second one.

[Blight]

Originally posted by svendawg


[QUOTE][

>> and would likely set some traps for him, <<

Spider-sense cancels that out, and the only thing that trumps that is Venom or Carnage.



Oops...........forgot about that, heh heh. But I still believe all the other reasons that I mentioned.

See ya!
Blight

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by kid_flash


Sorry, I didn't mean any insult by it. And although I did read the first time Superman stopped by NML, I missed out on the second one.

No problem. I understand.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by svendawg

>> and would likely set some traps for him, <<

Spider-sense cancels that out, and the only thing that trumps that is Venom or Carnage.



No, not really. Setting a trap is the one way that Batman can beat Spidey, if he's got the time to set it up. The spider-sense is going to be most valuable during a fast-paced fight where's something's coming at Spidey. A trap need not be dynamic like that. Spiderman can be trapped. He can be caught. And Batman's probably most suited to pulling that off.

[kid_flash]

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, I'm not positive.

That's the wacky thing about Spider-sense. Although he's honed the ability over the years, Spider-Man can never know PRECISELY what's going to happen. He just knows how to react. So Batman could throw some batrangs and smoke bombs at him to throw him off, then...I dunno, hit him. I'm still sticking to Spidey winning, though.

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by kid_flash
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, I'm not positive.

That's the wacky thing about Spider-sense. Although he's honed the ability over the years, Spider-Man can never know PRECISELY what's going to happen. He just knows how to react. So Batman could throw some batrangs and smoke bombs at him to throw him off, then...I dunno, hit him. I'm still sticking to Spidey winning, though.

That's right! Spider-Man's spidey sense can be confused easily. I think that's happened a couple time sin the past. Batman would easily catch on that Spidey has asort of 'Sixth Sense' and could easily confuse it. Why would Batman catch on? Becuase he's Batman!

[Bluntman]

This isn't even a real contest. Spider-man can wipe the floor with Batman for two simple reason:

1. Spider-Man has super strength, speed, agility, and is pretty smart.

2. Batman is just a regular guy with martial arts knowledge in a costume.

For these two very important reason, I give the edge to our friendly neighborhood web slinger. He'd also win a war of words between the two.

Besides, Spidey has stood toe-to-toe with The Jugernaut, The Hulk, and others.

Batman just fights guys like The Joker.

[Frozen]

Erm... Batman has beaten the Hulk in a straight fight, and the entire JLA (including Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter etc. I don't think it's wise to underestimate him just because he's a 'normal guy'...