Who needs the most therapy?

[DisneyBoy]

In thinking about the new Batman Gotham Adventures Harley issue, which I have yet to read, I recalled that she used to be a therapist. Then I asked myself a question: Who in the animated Batman universe needs the most therapy?

Catwoman instantly pops to mind. Though none of us know the animated Catwoman's true reasons for first donning the skin-tight outfit, we do know that she is a good person struggling to balance her psycological needs. A little help, if she were to accept it, would go a long way to healing Selina Kyle's soul and bringing her closer to Bruce.

Two-Face, for sure. I've never lost hope that Harvey's "gone" for good. I Don't think he could ever forgive himself for everything he did, but maybe once he is free of all his anger, he could return to a normal, decent life. Anyone here think that Grace would take him back?

Joker! There's a problem. I doubt there is any way to save this guy, so any therapy would go on for years. Hey, if he doesn't try to help himself, what can poor Harley do?

Bruce? Well, he has always kept his emotions inside of him, and we've all gotten used to it, but if he is ever to feel happy again, he needs to release, emotionally. Let's face it; Bruce isn't a happy person. He's driven to be Batman, but in the process, he's lost himself. Think about it: do any of you know what Bruce's favorite song is? Ice-cream? Holiday? The truth is that he doesn't know either. He even calls "Bruce Wayne" the mask he wears in order to disguise who he really is: Batman. I've always hated the old, decrepid Bruce Wayne in Batman Beyond because he had no hope for the future. It was just about waiting to die with him. He'd never know love again, and never be completely happy. I feel Bruce stands a chance to change such a drab, dark and depressing tommorow. He'll find the happiness he deserves someday.

[TerryMcGuiness]

You know one of the things that has always bugged me about the modern comics is that Frank Millers notion of Bruce being a psychotic got taken as law.

Now it seems like nobody can wrap their brain around the idea of Batman unless they think he's nuts and apporach him as a psychotic who's only different from the Joker in that his goals ar altruistic.

This is a nausatingly nihilistic view.

One of my favorite stories was one that for me proves Bruce is not insane.

In it, the Phantom Stranger takes Bruce to what I remember as being one of the alterate Earths on the night Bruce Waynes parents were to be murdered. Batman swoops and stops Joe Chill just before he can fire the first shot.

What is fascinating is that even though his parents arent dead, the story ends with his mother worrying about him being suddenly being so studious and collecting books such as the works of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

The story goes on to show him begining to train physically and mentally for he will one day, inspired by the image he saw as a child, he will make a vow and thus a hero will be born.

His parents are alive and he *still* becomes Batman.

The reason I refuse to think of Bruce as insane is because Batman is a story about strength from tragedy. If he let what happened to his parents drive him insane, he would be just like the Joker.

Instead, he took this pain and used it as strength for him to concentrate his focus into a goal and aquire any and all knowledge needed to fufill it.

Is he haunted? Yes certainally. This is an asepct very key to Mask of the Phantasm. Is he obessed? Yes very much so.

Bruce Wayne is not someone wallowing around in his own psychoisis but a little boy who's tears made him a fighter, a hero, and man.

I seem to remember Paul Dini putting forth the idea that on a certain level, Batman is the 9-year old Bruce Wayne frozen in time and if you look at the gadgets you get the sense that he's fighting with toys. That this is a childs answer to what he went through but the amazing thing is that through his intellect, training, dedication and sheer force of focus and will he does make it all work.

(I get the impression this concept may have been the genesis for the Grey Ghost story.)

[Joker85]

Thats a tough question!! I would have to say:
Ventriloquist.
I think he is the craziest one of the bunch, followed closely by Joker, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, and Maxie Zeus. I think that Ventriloquist is a very silent, but disturbed man, with his other personality always calling out to him, he is never alone. Thats my opinion anyway. Good Question DisneyBoy!:)

[Nightwing]

I think Harley needs therapy the most. She just keeps taking Joker's insanity and abuse, when she could really be a lot stronger than that. Joker himself, by his argument "DOESN'T NEED" therapy, I'm sure. So I won't go there. :rolleyes: One bad day....that's all it takes.

But for more of a good cause, I'd go with Two Face, because we'd all want him to get better so Bruce can have his best friend back.

But of course, that won't happen anytime soon, I'm sure. Speaking of which, this brings me to my next point. I don't think Bruce is insane, but I still think I disagree with "TerryMcGuiniss." Bruce may not be insane, but I believe Batman is based on tragedy, and in that showing us that although what Batman does in his world and existance is very much needed, it's not very healthy. That's because, overall I see Batman as an obsession that he could never let go of. And no obsession is healthy.

[Karkull]

Truth is, they all do:

Batman
Batman has an obsessive personality, and the tragedy that touched him has left its mark. Watching the death of his parents screwed him up. By putting on the cape and cowl, he gains some sort of relief from his troubles. It's like he symbolically avenges his parent's murder every night.

Besides, how else can we explain the costume, the putting of minors in danger (especially since most other super-heroes dropped their sidekicks at the end of the Silver Age), and the adoption of Batman (not Bruce Wayne) as the identity with which he sees himself.

I think that he is probably crazy on some level. Doctors may try, but they'll never crack his shell. His will is just too strong.

Joker
Lost cause. Brick up the door.

Two-Face
He also may never be fully healed...and part of the problem is that, due to his obsession with twos, doctors treating him don't realize that he doesn't have just two personalities...he has at least three.

Any psychologist will tell you that if a mind is so damaged that it splits into multiple personalities that it won't stop with just two. The way I see it (barring personalities like the Judge) he actually has three personalities:

Harvey Dent--his "normal" side.
Big Bad Harv--Harvey Dent's id. The darkness that seeks to control.
Two-Face--a mediator for these warring factions. It is this personality that flips the coin to see which personality will get its way.

Mad Hatter
I'm almost willing to bet that his dementia may also be due to mercury poisoning. Victorian hatters would use the chemical to shine their hats--it would seep into their brains and cause insanity.

I could go on with my theories, but I need to go. I'll add to this later.

[TerryMcGuiness]

"Batman
Batman has an obsessive personality, and the tragedy that touched him has left its mark. Watching the death of his parents screwed him up. By putting on the cape and cowl, he gains some sort of relief from his troubles. It's like he symbolically avenges his parent's murder every night.

Besides, how else can we explain the costume, the putting of minors in danger (especially since most other super-heroes dropped their sidekicks at the end of the Silver Age), and the adoption of Batman (not Bruce Wayne) as the identity with which he sees himself.

I think that he is probably crazy on some level. Doctors may try, but they'll never crack his shell. His will is just too strong. "


I can explain the costume in the simple fact that this is a superhero comic for chrissakes!!! Jesus, you modern comics readers can't wrap your brain around anything unless it has some roots in darkness or gritty 'reality'.

As for putting minors in danger, he saw a reflection of himself in Dick Grayson and as such gave him the means to channel his own anger in the same way. He didn't do it because he's a drooling psychotic. I know that Frank Miller notion is so entrenched now that its all anybody wants to believe. 9_9

Also, as I stated before I cop to him being obsessed, dedicated and eccentric, lousy at expressing his feelings to those he cares about most, but that does not equal insanity.

As far as Bruce seeing himself as Batman, I think that was a statement meant more as idealogical than psychological.

Besides the simple fact is there would be no Batman without Bruce Wayne. Its Bruce Waynes pain that created the Batman. Batman cannot exist without him. All Batman is, is a costume and a set of knowledge and skills without a soul to pilot them.

Just look at those recent issues of JLA.

"Batman" wasn't worth a damn without Bruce Wayne.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by TerryMcGuiness
I can explain the costume in the simple fact that this is a superhero comic for chrissakes!!! Jesus, you modern comics readers can't wrap your brain around anything unless it has some roots in darkness or gritty 'reality'.

As for putting minors in danger, he saw a reflection of himself in Dick Grayson and as such gave him the means to channel his own anger in the same way. He didn't do it because he's a drooling psychotic. I know that Frank Miller notion is so entrenched now that its all anybody wants to believe.

Also, as I stated before I cop to him being obsessed, dedicated and eccentric, lousy at expressing his feelings to those he cares about most, but that does not equal insanity.

As far as Bruce seeing himself as Batman, I think that was a statement meant more as idealogical than psychological.

Besides the simple fact is there would be no Batman without Bruce Wayne. Its Bruce Waynes pain that created the Batman. Batman cannot exist without him. All Batman is, is a costume and a set of knowledge and skills without a soul to pilot them.

Just look at those recent issues of JLA.

"Batman" wasn't worth a damn without Bruce Wayne.

Oh, really.

First off, I'm the first to acknowledge that there are certain conceits to be had in the realm of superhero comics/T.V. shows--the costume is a given. But, in this particular case, it strikes me as odd that he would go with this particular motif. Come on, a giant bat? He's trying to scare criminals the same way that they scared him all those years before.

Secondly, it is true that he accepted Dick Grayson as a sidekick because he saw a reflection of his own anger. This can be understood--he didn't want Dick Grayson turning out worse for the situation--but Batman has accepted many more sidekicks since (and not all of them have had the benefit of a great tragedy on their resume). Look at his his track record: in the comics he's had one killed (Jason Todd) and one crippled (Barbara Gordon). As for the cartoon, he may not have died, but being tortured by the Joker didn't help Tim Drake out too much.

Doesn't that strike you as a little habitual?

It is very true that, for better or worse, Frank Miller's interpretation has become the law of the land. But this has been the law of the land for almost twenty years now. It is from this transformation that Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, and Alan Burnett took some (if not all) of their ideas from and included them in their own adaption of the character. Without Frank Miller's rethinking of what Batman is what would we be left with? The campy 60's T.V. show? That powder blue/light gray costume? "Holy (insert lame pun here)?"

I like my Batman this way. He is more the classic tragic hero because of it.

[Kylewayne]

Originally posted by DisneyBoy

Who in the animated Batman universe needs the most therapy?

They all do!



Joker
This guy is insane! There is no hope for him even with therapy.

Batman
He has issues. This man needs to see a shrink. Therapy will do him good...maybe he will learn to smile and learn to show his emotions. He needs to ease up and take it easy...Life isn't always bleek.

Batgirl/Barbara Gordon
Ok, she isn't nuts or anything but she does need help for becoming Batgirl! She is nothing but a thrill seeker to me. A person who puts on a suit for no apparent reason IS a nutcase to me. Alright, she became Batgirl to save her father but after that she became addicted to the suit. Needs to have her head examined IMO.

The MOST therapy has to be Harley Quin.
I feel sorry for her in a way. Before she became Harley, she was a loner. She would do anything for attention even sleep with her professors in Gotham University. Which helped her get a degree in psychology. She is also a victim of verbal and physical abuse but the sad thing is ...she always keeps coming back for more.