A "Coal Black" voice question...

[Sogturtle]

...In all of my researching over the years I've seen that it's agreed on and been propagated that "Zoot Watson" did the voice of "Prince Chawmin'"... There's a problem with that... It raises the question of, "What in the blue-blazes was "Zoot's" real name???" (I've checked books, run searches blah, blah, blah... No other films, no recordings, as such...nothing) Was this a mis-remembored nickname or...??? (The closest I've come is "Deek Watson" of Inkspots fame).

Any help anyone...?????

(The next question would be "why did Bob Clampett hire Vivian Dandridge rather than her sister Dorothy for the title role??? Unless of course Graham Webb is right and it is actually Dorothy instead of Vivian...Course that makes everybody else wrong... :eek: :eek: )

[Bugsmer]

Tim,

I don't know whether it was Dorthy or Vivian, but maybe they sounded alike, then perhaps they were both used whenever they had some time off work. By the way, whence does that song in your signature originate?

[Jerry Beck]

"What in the blue-blazes was "Zoot's" real name???"
Any help anyone...?????

Keith Scott wrote: "Prince Chawmin' was played by Leo L. Watson - whether he was nickmamed "Zoot" Watson at that point in his career I don't know... Leo Watson was a drummer and vocalist who was a member of the famed 1930s trio The Spirits Of Rhythm (I have a recording they made and his voice is exactly as you hear it in the cartoon)."

Scott also notes that the Mammy voice in the film is Lillian Randolph (Mammy Two-Shoes at MGM and on radio's Great Gildersleeve) and that the wicked Queen is NOT Ruby Dandridge, but Danny Webb! (Ruby is well known for her high pitched voice, and "there is no way it's her doing the Queen")

[rodney]

I've brought this up before, but it really burns me up that certain actor's voices (Lillian Randolph comes to mind) are considered un-PC, when they were talking in their actual speaking voice!

[Sogturtle]

Keith Scott wrote: "Prince Chawmin' was played by Leo L. Watson - whether he was nickmamed "Zoot" Watson at that point in his career I don't know... Leo Watson was a drummer and vocalist who was a member of the famed 1930s trio The Spirits Of Rhythm (I have a recording they made and his voice is exactly as you hear it in the cartoon)."

Scott also notes that the Mammy voice in the film is Lillian Randolph (Mammy Two-Shoes at MGM and on radio's Great Gildersleeve) and that the wicked Queen is NOT Ruby Dandridge, but Danny Webb! (Ruby is well known for her high pitched voice, and "there is no way it's her doing the Queen")



Jerry (and Keith Scott)~

Thank you much-ly for your help, it is greatly appreciated! (If I had Keith Scott's email address I'd thank him personally!!)

Sooooo putting two and two together then it would mean that our "Zoot" (Leo) Watson in the Four Spirits of Rhythm can also be seen and heard performing "Tap Happy" and "Tom-Tom, the Elevator Boy" in the 1941 Columbia feature "Sweetheart of the Campus " (w/Ruby Keeler and Ozzie & Harriet). Unless I'm jumping to conclusions, as I don't recall ever seeing that film...

Graham Webb also listed Danny Webb/Dave Weber amongst the vocal credits for "Coal Black..." though failed to designate his role(s), although Ruby Dandridge is listed there also just like everywhere else. But why Graham failed to list Lillian Randolph is anybodys guess...

Thank you Keith Scott and Jerry again!!!

[chuckamuck43]

"Zoot" and the guys are also featured in the riverboat scene in the film Stormy Weather. Fats Waller and Cab Calloway are in that movie too.

[Jon Cooke]

"Zoot" and the guys are also featured in the riverboat scene in the film Stormy Weather. Fats Waller and Cab Calloway are in that movie too.

Hey Ron,

Nice to see you are able to post again. ;) :bosko: :D


-Jon

[Sogturtle]

"Zoot" and the guys are also featured in the riverboat scene in the film Stormy Weather. Fats Waller and Cab Calloway are in that movie too.



(Is your name really Ron and not "Chuckamuck"? ;))

Hmmmmm... the 1943 version of "Stormy Weather" would be a LOT easier for any of us to find. Thanks my friend!

[Looney Man]

Keith Scott wrote: "Prince Chawmin' was played by Leo L. Watson - whether he was nickmamed "Zoot" Watson at that point in his career I don't know... Leo Watson was a drummer and vocalist who was a member of the famed 1930s trio The Spirits Of Rhythm (I have a recording they made and his voice is exactly as you hear it in the cartoon)."

Scott also notes that the Mammy voice in the film is Lillian Randolph (Mammy Two-Shoes at MGM and on radio's Great Gildersleeve) and that the wicked Queen is NOT Ruby Dandridge, but Danny Webb! (Ruby is well known for her high pitched voice, and "there is no way it's her doing the Queen")


I had always figured that was maybe Mel Blanc as the wicked Queen.
It certainly sounds like a voice he would do.

[Sogturtle]

Tim,

....By the way, whence does that song in your signature originate?


Bugsmer~

You DON'T recognize it...??? It's from "Rabbit Seasoning"... ;) :p :bugs1: :bugs1: Okay, okay not from the great cartoon "Rabbit Seasoning" but from "Bugs Bunny And Rabbit Seasoning", a 1953 Capitol Records release (CAS-3168). Mel Blanc warbles the song terrifically just before a certain follically-challenged hunter and his trusty canine make their entrance... To my knowledge it's one of the rarest of all the Mel Blanc Capitol Looney Tunes records. Lastly it was written/composed by our buds Warren Foster and Tedd Pierce. (Are you sorry you asked yet? ;) But thank you for asking... I've wondered whether anybody ever noticed it).

[Sogturtle]

I had always figured that was maybe Mel Blanc as the wicked Queen.
It certainly sounds like a voice he would do.


Looney Man (aka Chris)~

Yeah it's a wonderfully cartoony vocal on the lines of Mel. Buuuuut his good friend Danny Webb is one of the great but largely unheralded toon voices (BESIDES being Egghead). Between 1936 and 1943 Webb/Weber is believed to have voiced in just about 40 (FORTY) Warners cartoons, 45 toons for Columbia, about 25 for Lantz, and roughly 6 for MGM, 7 or so for Iwerks (to 1940). Annnnnnd one (that I know of) for Disney, namely "Mother Goose Goes Hollywood" (Manny Gould and Ben Harrison also had him come do the voices for "Hollywood Sweepstakes" a few months later at Columbia). Much of the time he starred in various toons at all these studios.

It's also believed that "Coal Black..." was his last Warner toon, while it appears that his real final cartoon (released) was MGM's "The Stork's Holiday".

[chuckamuck43]

Thanks, Jon.

And to our hero, Da Toitle - glad to help!

[Sogturtle]

Since it will be a while till most of us catch either of the above mentioned films, then here is what "Zoot" looked like when not a toon...



[And Chuckamuck, gracias for the kind words...!]

http://services.windowsmedia.com/cover//200/dre500/e547/e54787kki34.jpg

[Bugsmer]

Fascinating! Warner Bros. must have made dozens of albums, but I never thought I'd hear one! Way to go, Tim! No, I'm not sorry I asked and I thank you for sharing it with all of us.



Bugsmer~

You DON'T recognize it...??? It's from "Rabbit Seasoning"... ;) :p :bugs1: :bugs1: Okay, okay not from the great cartoon "Rabbit Seasoning" but from "Bugs Bunny And Rabbit Seasoning", a 1953 Capitol Records release (CAS-3168). Mel Blanc warbles the song terrifically just before a certain follically-challenged hunter and his trusty canine make their entrance... To my knowledge it's one of the rarest of all the Mel Blanc Capitol Looney Tunes records. Lastly it was written/composed by our buds Warren Foster and Tedd Pierce. (Are you sorry you asked yet? ;) But thank you for asking... I've wondered whether anybody ever noticed it).

[Sketcher]

WOW! This thread is great! It inspired interest in finding out who did the voices. I always assumed it was done by black voice acotrs but never actual jazz musicians. What about the music? Did jazz greats perform?

I'm beginning to see how this cartoon is looking un-pc when it really wasn't (aside from the histrical perspective angle).

What about the other jazzy cartoons like...um.... now what was the title? I forget (as usual) but it's the one with "What's the mudder with that?" :)

[Nick]

WOW! This thread is great! It inspired interest in finding out who did the voices. I always assumed it was done by black voice acotrs but never actual jazz musicians. What about the music? Did jazz greats perform?

I'm beginning to see how this cartoon is looking un-pc when it really wasn't (aside from the histrical perspective angle).

What about the other jazzy cartoons like...um.... now what was the title? I forget (as usual) but it's the one with "What's the mudder with that?" :)
Tin Pan Alley Cats. I WANT TO SEE THAT CARTOON SOOOOOOOOO BADLY! :mad: :( plus all other censored 11.

[Sogturtle]

WOW! This thread is great! It inspired interest in finding out who did the voices. I always assumed it was done by black voice actors but never actual jazz musicians. What about the music? Did jazz greats perform?

I'm beginning to see how this cartoon is looking un-pc when it really wasn't (aside from the historical perspective angle).

What about the other jazzy cartoons like...um.... now what was the title? I forget (as usual) but it's the one with "What's the mudder with that?" :)


Sketcher~

The studio drew the line on the wholesale employment of jazz musicians (despite Clampett's desires). Almost certainly this was for purely economic reasons as the Warner orchestra was on right on hand waiting to record... However from what Bob Clampett told Michael Barrier, the studio DID permit the use of two authentic jazz musicians (*both African-Americans), namely a drummer and trumpet-player, during the scene of Prince Chawmin' trying to awaken Coal Black. It would appear that the names of these two talented musicians though are lost.

One final thing on "Coal Black..." Clampett TOLD Mike Barrier that he had solicited CRITICISM of the gags and story from all of the African-Americans who performed in the cartoon... Whether things were actually changed/toned down is unknown (or if Bob's recollection was accurate).

The other cartoon in question is Bob's "Tin Pan Alley Cats", where again a Black trumpeter was employed for a few little segments. The main character is of course a caricature of jazz performer Fats Waller. And no, Mr. Waller was NOT employed in the cartoon (he died at age 39 only a few months after it came out). Graham Webb states that Mel Blanc provided voices BUT that Eddie Beal, Irving Ashby, Bob Redwood, and Louis Gonzales were used for the musical sections...