Knights Of The Zodiac "Burn! Meteor Punch of Pegasus" Talkback (Spoilers)

[DianaGohan]

Talk here for the Knights Of THe Zodiac Episode Airing Right Now On Cartoon Network's SVES. Is this episode "the suck" or "teh s uck"? Tune in to find out.

[Umino]

Makoto? If this was 1995, he name would be Lita :P

[Swag Jenkins]

Heh, DBZ probably would have been edited like that if FUNi went with DiC instead of Saban.

[DianaGohan]

Saya Enters The Tournament And Nearly Gets Killed By A Bear Hug In The Knights of The Zodiac Episode Review of "Burn! Meteor Punch of Pegasus".

This was a lot better then last week's episode. Saya apparently only cares about finding his sister, and that Princess is less cliched then I thought, which is nice to know. Anyway, I give this episode a B++, the extra plus is because I still really like the theme song.

[Batmex]

I think it wasn't that bad, just the music and bad script were the big issues.

[Brent Long]

Well, that does it for me, Dic is unforgivable, Dic deceived me by keeping all of the original names, and episode titles being close to the original before it aired. And then it aired, and then it aired a week later :( .

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Hey, it's Seiya, not Saya. Anyway, the series feel so different. What's with the corny dialogue added? What they say was changed so much. That coupled with the entire removal of the beautiful original music is unforgivable.

[SNS]

It was okay, so far I'm not too interested in the series (but it's only the second episode, so I'm not surprised).

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Much better than the first episode and I really was enjoying it until they did wacky black and white "lazer" screen for Seiya's punches. That was completely uncalled for.

[Beat]

Instead of seeing episode two, I went and ordered the first Saint Seiya DVD online. Judging from the talkback so far, that was a good thing.

[PeppeRaskell1]

Makoto? If this was 1995, he name would be Lita :P

Nice avatar you've got there, Chobit. Who is Sailor Moon beating up, one of the Seiyas/Knights?

I have yet to see an episode of this, if only for the curiosity factor.

PeppeRaskell1
"Still sittin' it out 'till I get a Saturday off from my job, or the Saint Seiya DVDs come out..."

[raykremer]

Ehhhh, maybe it will get better. Eventually. I guess the missing sister thing is a pretty good out for the writers as far as a reason for Seiya to fight.

[zmanjz]

Hmmm... as someone who never saw this before, I like this series so far.

[Anime Guy]

Ehhhh, maybe it will get better. Eventually. I guess the missing sister thing is a pretty good out for the writers as far as a reason for Seiya to fight.

It is a good reason that we've all seen before, coughYuGiOhcough.

[yeman83]

It is a good reason that we've all seen before, coughYuGiOhcough.
cough cough...just a reminder, this series was made in 1986, so may I use "AFTER" instead?

[Nimbleness]

This series gets much better once the episodes stray away from focusing on Seiya. Ikki is my favorite :D

[Anime Guy]

cough cough...just a reminder, this series was made in 1986, so may I use "AFTER" instead?

I said that we've seen a plot where a guy fights for his sister, not that Yu-Gi-Oh! was the first show to have a plot like that.

[A SAint]

I said that we've seen a plot where a guy fights for his sister, not that Yu-Gi-Oh! was the first show to have a plot like that.

Saint Seiya is not about fighting for the sister, mind you. And the fight for sister only last one or two episodes.

[yeman83]

and his sister will only be mentioned for no more than 5 times in the next 100 episodes or so, you may finish counting it by winter 2005.
CN should really make this a nightly show.

[RobochangerEX]

I missed last weeks episode.... so made damn sure to catch it last night.

Oh my god is was horrible ! As a long time seiya fan... it was painful to watch.

Still, I could stomac most of the problems.... but replacing it's original Back Ground Score is just an unforgiveable sin. It's like ripping the soul right out of the series.

Seems as though the only thing good comming out of Dic doing this is that Bandai is releasing toys. :D

I'll be waiting for the accurate DVDs comming out later... Zodiac can burn in hadies for all I care.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

I missed last weeks episode.... so made damn sure to catch it last night.

Oh my god is was horrible ! As a long time seiya fan... it was painful to watch.

Still, I could stomac most of the problems.... but replacing it's original Back Ground Score is just an unforgiveable sin. It's like ripping the soul right out of the series.

Seems as though the only thing good comming out of Dic doing this is that Bandai is releasing toys. :D

I'll be waiting for the accurate DVDs comming out later... Zodiac can burn in hadies for all I care.

That's my main problem. The original series has such a beautiful soundtrack, that when I hear the generic music it makes me cringe. Then again, most of the dialogue has been changed, and the characters sound like jerks.

Heck to quote Thanatos from the animeondvd forums: "Anime has not been raped this much since 1983". Although it's an exaggeration, this is still one of the worst butchers in anime history.

[Bakasama]

Soundtrack? They also slapped on a gaudy remake of "I Ran" which I was old enough to hear it on the radio back in the early 80's. That song is known in this generation as a part of the soundtrack for Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.

I suppose DIC was trying to capture the "80's feel" but results just suck.

[lostrune]

This ep was just so-so.

1. I'm quite tolerant of dubs, yet I particularly found Princess Siena misplayed or misdirected at times. She can do the authority figure fine, but when she needed to show heart-warming emotions, she still sounded like an authority figure. Go figure. :yawn:

2. Can somebody explain that scoring points system? Seiya's ooints keep going up even when he's getting his ass kicked up to when he's winning. :confused:

3. The preview announcer mentioned Pegasus vs Unicorn next, but looking at the chart they're still on separate sides of the draw. Whattup wid dat? :confused:

4. So far, definitely a lot of generic 80s anime cliches (or maybe it even begat some of them). Down to the love interest and childhood rival. We'll see. :shrug:

[Sampo]

Favorite scene:

Seiya's opponent Geki (Gekiganger?!!) screaming "I'm gonna give you a little bear hug!" So he rams into Seiya body.
Announcer shouts out Geki is using his patented "bear hug"... Yet the animation doesn't match up.
Seiya grunts out "My grandma hugged me harder than that! That's all you got bear breath?!" But Geki still had his head slammed into his stomach.
Soooo Geki "bear hugs" his throat!

Also that clip of the "sleeping" bears was funny.

Aside of the strange dubing matched up with the animation, I heard better lines on WWE :eek:

Hmm, did some Google searching and found out the name of Bear Geki's attack:

"Hangingu Bea" "Hanging Bear"

[yeman83]

This ep was just so-so.

1. I'm quite tolerant of dubs, yet I particularly found Princess Siena misplayed or misdirected at times. She can do the authority figure fine, but when she needed to show heart-warming emotions, she still sounded like an authority figure. Go figure. :yawn:

2. Can somebody explain that scoring points system? Seiya's ooints keep going up even when he's getting his ass kicked up to when he's winning. :confused:

3. The preview announcer mentioned Pegasus vs Unicorn next, but looking at the chart they're still on separate sides of the draw. Whattup wid dat? :confused:

4. So far, definitely a lot of generic 80s anime cliches (or maybe it even begat some of them). Down to the love interest and childhood rival. We'll see. :shrug:

the dialog of the second half of ep2 is thousand miles away from what is accurate. Pegasus' next up is vs Dragon Shiryu, Unicorn's next up is against Andromeda Shun. I will wait and see what will DIC do with this made up extra bonus "Pegasus vs Unicorn" match..

[Dragon_Shiryu]

This ep was just so-so.

1. I'm quite tolerant of dubs, yet I particularly found Princess Siena misplayed or misdirected at times. She can do the authority figure fine, but when she needed to show heart-warming emotions, she still sounded like an authority figure. Go figure. :yawn:

2. Can somebody explain that scoring points system? Seiya's ooints keep going up even when he's getting his ass kicked up to when he's winning. :confused:

3. The preview announcer mentioned Pegasus vs Unicorn next, but looking at the chart they're still on separate sides of the draw. Whattup wid dat? :confused:

4. So far, definitely a lot of generic 80s anime cliches (or maybe it even begat some of them). Down to the love interest and childhood rival. We'll see. :shrug:

The points are not a scoring system, that was a gauge of the pressure and power behind the attacks. There's no Seiya vs Jabu (no, it's not "Jab", and while on the case Saori is not Sienna, and she's not a princess, and there's no Lord Nobu, but Mitsumasa Kido and.... I'll better stop).

[yeman83]

The points are not a scoring system, that was a gauge of the pressure and power behind the attacks. There's no Seiya vs Jabu (no, it's not "Jab", and while on the case Saori is not Sienna, and she's not a princess, and there's no Lord Nobu, but Mitsumasa Kido and.... I'll better stop).
take a deep breath, boy. it'l be alright, i hope.

[Roger Smith]

it was bad..
the girl shouldent be call Zeinna it should be call Athena in the mexican version was call athena in the japan version Also

[yeman83]

it was bad..
the girl shouldent be call Zeinna it should be call Athena in the mexican version was call athena in the japan version Also
her name is saori, and she is athena.

[Batmex]

her name is saori, and she is athena.
Name: Saori Kiddo aka Athena
Age: 13

Yes, she's 13 years old according to reliable sources.

[yeman83]

Name: Saori Kiddo aka Athena
Age: 13

Yes, she's 13 years old according to reliable sources.
you r right, she is same age as seiya and shun, bronze saints are mostly around 13-15 years old.

[A SAint]

After editing their ages in KOTZ, i wonder if saga's age is gonna be 30+.

[Yak]

Don't spoil!
You only know that saori is athena in episode 25!!

indeed she is 13 like most of the bronze saints

[KiaN]

rhaaa I wonder how DiC dares RAPE like that one of the BEST anime series ever made....ridiculous dubs, new music (the original muscis ARE SO GREAT the best anime musics aver made !!!!) they changed the plot, changed names, censors blood in blue, etc etc the list is VERY VERY long and that's only for the first episode.. I can't imagine the massacre for the rest :(

The original author Kurumada could commit suicide if he saw that !!

If I have time I'll put more details..

[Batmex]

rhaaa aI wonder how DiC dare RAPE like the one of the BEST anime series ever made....ridiculous dubs, new music (the original muscis ARE SO GREAT the best anime musics aver made !!!!) they changed the plot, changed names, censors blood in blue, etc etc the list is VERY VERY long and that's only for the first episode.. I can't imagine the massacre for the rest :(

The original author Kurumada could commit suicide if he saw that !!

If I have time I'll put more details..


I'll bet he'll just send his Saints to atack DIC HQ. and make sure Ikky gets everyone with his Phoenix Gemma oh Ken(sp) :D

[lostrune]

rhaaa aI wonder how DiC dare RAPE like the one of the BEST anime series ever made....ridiculous dubs, new music (the original muscis ARE SO GREAT the best anime musics aver made !!!!) they changed the plot, changed names, censors blood in blue, etc etc the list is VERY VERY long and that's only for the first episode.. I can't imagine the massacre for the rest :(

ADV has the rights to all those in the originals.
Maybe the contract stipulates DiC can't use those, or maybe DiC probably found it pointless to be too close with what ADV will be releasing (if there's hardly any difference between the two, then might as well get the unedited, right?), or maybe with all those cuts, keeping the original soundtrack would make the music sound choppy with abrupt changes (think about it), or maybe they want to make their own music so they can sell their own soundtracks, or maybe... who knows? :rolleyes:

Anyhow, here's a more elaborate explanation of the possibilities, courtesy of Steve Harrison ('http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl568281523d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=noUBE-2708031700310001%40sdn-ap-025ilchicp0394.dialsprint.net'):

>People, please don't think Saint Seiya is this stupid. It's actually an
>extremely good series, despite DiC's brave efforts to show otherwise.
>Unfortunately, if the clips are any indication, DiC wasn't able to procure
>the original soundtrack rights; a shame, really, since SSeiya's music is one
>of the best aspects of the show.

It's not a case of 'not being able to get the rights'....it's a case
of...well, frankly, what I call at various times '1980's thinking' or
'Macek-ing' (as in Carl Macek and Robotech)...

1. It's easier to dub and get that 'all important' lip synch (matching lip
flap that was never *intended* to be scynched perfectly in the first
place...real smart) if you don't have to worry about the music cues
falling out of line...back in the 'Robotech' days they did this by playing
with the framerate...slowing down a cut by a frame or two (or more,
depending on if the cut was shot 'on twos' or even 'on threes')to stretch
out a flap to match dialog...naturally you can see how that would mess up
the music timing..by creating original music you can drop that in 'on top'
of the played with film and dialog and not muck things up. Nowadays with
Wordfit and the like I understand they don't play with the framerate as
much, now being able to stretch or compress the dialog digitally to fit
the timing, but it's an *ingrained* business habit, see?

Addition: Obviously if you're cutting stuff out of the shot to make it 'US TV friendly' then that plays with the music timing too, and laying your own music over the *edits* is much easier.

2. Ownership. If you create your own BGM for a show, you own the rights
instead of paying royalities. Thus even after you've lost your license to
the show, you can still sell the music. This *used* to be big business,
usually over in Europe, for the likes of Harmony Gold. DIC is still making
money off their Sailor Moon CDs, for example.

Naturally, I think this whole business sucks rocks. I'm very very worried
about ADV reportedly trusting DIC to be the leader in marketing and
promoting this horrorshow, with the avowed "well, as long as it sells
we'll make it" thinking...but when, not if but *when* DIC's version tanks
what then?

As good as St. Seiya is, it's NOT going to become the 'next DBZ' guys.
They should be focusing on the *strengths* of the show (character
interaction, angst, action and kick ass music) and not try and force it
into a pre-existing niche.

I think St. Seiya actually would have a shot at grabbing some of that
'young female Gundam Wing fan' crowd, if it was being handled
right....thus hitting a mostly ignored market.

Ah, well. Maybe they'll learn after this crashes...

*heh* right. sure. :)

[Roger Smith]

i will only say this all of tthat are cheap words

[KiaN]

This was a lot better then last week's episode. Saya apparently only cares about finding his sister, and that Princess is less cliched then I thought, which is nice to know. Anyway, I give this episode a B++, the extra plus is because I still really like the theme song
Seiya is the good spelling :)
She's not actually a princess! And her real name is Saori Kido.


I think it wasn't that bad, just the music and bad script were the big issues.
The original music is so GREAT and perfect for the show and there is a BIG LOT of them (about 300 different musics approx...)


Dic is unforgivable
So true...


What's with the corny dialogue added? What they say was changed so much. That coupled with the entire removal of the beautiful original music is unforgivable.
Yeah DiC makes Seiya say the opposite of what he said in japanese, when in front of Shina; she says that next time she'll have her Cloth and therefore Seiya will have to fight using his real power, and in the DiC version he replies: "Sounds like fun" whereas in the Japanese original version he replis "I hope this will never happen." (!! opposite meaning!!)


It was okay, so far I'm not too interested in the series (but it's only the second episode, so I'm not surprised).
With this dubbed sh** I cant blame you :(


Much better than the first episode and I really was enjoying it until they did wacky black and white "lazer" screen for Seiya's punches. That was completely uncalled for.
I cant recall that in the original version, I'll have to check but I'm quite sure it's something DiC changed color or whatever to censor blood or something.....


Instead of seeing episode two, I went and ordered the first Saint Seiya DVD online. Judging from the talkback so far, that was a good thing.
Yeah that's the best to do, ADV is supposed to release and uncensored DVD version with subtitles...hope the subs will be good! (Well in fact in my country we have no good DVD release with subs of St Seiya, only dubbed, so I'm going to buy ADV's DVD which by the way will be released on October 21st.


Ehhhh, maybe it will get better.
It will! The first 30 episodes or not the best...but after...it'll get so great :)
There is a total of 114 episodes if I dont include the new ones (13 new episodes released in 2003 and in theory, 2 * 13 more to come )


Oh my god is was horrible ! As a long time seiya fan... it was painful to watch.
...


Still, I could stomac most of the problems.... but replacing it's original Back Ground Score is just an unforgiveable sin. It's like ripping the soul right out of the series.
I'm started to thing they only have retarded at DiC...


That's my main problem. The original series has such a beautiful soundtrack, that when I hear the generic music it makes me cringe. Then again, most of the dialogue has been changed, and the characters sound like jerks.

Heck to quote Thanatos from the animeondvd forums: "Anime has not been raped this much since 1983". Although it's an exaggeration, this is still one of the worst butchers in anime history.
So true...


I suppose DIC was trying to capture the "80's feel" but results just suck.
Yeah they are not very smart..........


Hmm, did some Google searching and found out the name of Bear Geki's attack:

"Hangingu Bea" "Hanging Bear"
I'm even wondering if DiC isnt translating an already dubbed version, would be easier for them than translateing from japanese...maybe french to english, or italian to english...


3. The preview announcer mentioned Pegasus vs Unicorn next, but looking at the chart they're still on separate sides of the draw. Whattup wid dat?
I think they're dubbing without even ready the entire original scenario..


The points are not a scoring system, that was a gauge of the pressure and power behind the attacks. There's no Seiya vs Jabu (no, it's not "Jab", and while on the case Saori is not Sienna, and she's not a princess, and there's no Lord Nobu, but Mitsumasa Kido and.... I'll better stop).
Maybe pressure on the body is too much a torture for children (LOL).
Well for the names, you said everything.


Maybe the contract stipulates DiC can't use those
I dont think so, in every single other country where it was dubbed they were smart enough to keep the musics..
I think the guy Steve Harisson on the upper link may be more accurates (about selling their own BGM)


i will only say this all of tthat are cheap words
Didnt undersand that.

[A SAint]

i will only say this all of tthat are cheap words

Could you elaborate on that?

[KiaN]

To alle those who want to know about the REAL Saint Seiya aka Knights of the Zodiac, check this excellent web site (in english)

http://kyodai.free.fr/namida/english/seiya.html

[Sampo]

To alle those who want to know about the REAL Saint Seiya aka Knights of the Zodiac, check this excellent web site (in english)

http://kyodai.free.fr/namida/english/seiya.html

Thanks for the link! :)