Rabbit Every Monday---written by whom?

[rodney]

Any thoughts on who the uncredited writer was for Rabbit Every Monday? It's oddly timed, and strange to see Sam as a hunter. I guess it would be somebody who was at the studio around 1948-1949 and had left before it's release (unless it was written by Friz himself, and Eddie Seltzer wouldn't allow screen credit for writing and directing at that time). Maybe it was written by Cal Howard?

[Thad Komorowski]

I never noticed the lack of story credit in that one, but I did notice this...

After Sam gets caught in gum at the bottom of the cliff, Bugs walks away, and hears Sam coming, and says to us "Here we go again!", and jumps into his hole. The weird thing is... these scenes seem to be animated by someone in McKimson's unit! :eek:

[Jaime_Weinman]

I recall reading that those scenes were animated uncredited by John Carey (who was in McKimson's unit for a while, though he also did some work for Freleng on "Canned Feud").

One thing I wonder is whether this story might have been adapted from a story intended for the defunct Art Davis unit. Some of Davis's planned Goofy Gophers stories were used by other directors after his unit shut down (like "A Ham in a Role," which was probably written for the Davis unit -- Sid Marcus had worked with Davis but never, up to that point, with McKimson). It might be that Freleng took an unused Davis story and revised it to feature Sam as the antagonist.

I recall speculation that the story might be partly by Ben Hardaway (who did "A Bone For a Bone," which Freleng directed), but I don't know where that came from.

[Sogturtle]

"Rabbit Every Monday" and the slightly earlier "Stooge For A Mouse"
don't FEEL or SEEM like Marcus stories to me... I strongly believe they
were most likely written by either Ben Hardaway or Cal Howard. Both men were recently out of work when these toons were written ca. 1948-49 and MAY have done them freelance and then received credit on the next two they did ("A Bone For A Bone" and "Canned Feud").

While "A Ham In Role" was almost certainly started by Art Davis (from Sid Marcus's story) and completed by McKimson... (Take a look at the animators... it's the first time Emery Hawkins and J.C. Melendez animated for McKimson). Art's unit was divided up three ways, Hawkins & Melendez to McKimson, Phil DeGuard to Chuck, and Art himself to old pal Friz. Marcus, Davidovich and Don Williams, and Don Smith all got the gate

[The Spectre]

John Carey also animated on "Fair-Haired Hare", another Freleng short. Off the top of my head - there are probably others.

[Sogturtle]

John Carey also animated on "Fair-Haired Hare", another Freleng short. Off the top of my head - there are probably others.



It's off the main topic buuuuut John Carey received Freleng screen credit only on "Canned Feud" and "Fair Haired Hare". Also on one for Chuck Jones ("A Hound For Trouble"). Earlier he also had worked credited on several known cartoons for Art Davis in the '48 release year. But his regular assignment was to the McKimson unit in the 1947-51 years and this was for good reason, as it was the continuation of the original Bob Clampett/Ray Katz unit where Carey had animated in the pre-war years.

[Jaime_Weinman]

Emery Hawkins also rotated from unit to unit around this time (animating for McKimson on several cartoons, but also for Jones on "Rabbit of Seville" -- he did the opening sequence of Bugs getting chased into the theatre -- and Freleng on a couple of cartoons).

[The Spectre]

The McKimson unit was the continuation of the Clampett unit? That makes sense, I suppose, but how come I'm always hearing that Art Davis' unit was the continuation of the Clampett unit?

[Brandon Pierce]

The McKimson unit was the continuation of the Clampett unit? That makes sense, I suppose, but how come I'm always hearing that Art Davis' unit was the continuation of the Clampett unit?
ACTUALLY, McKimson's unit was the continuation of Frank Tashlin's unit..... I think.
After Bob Clampett left WB, Art Davis took over his animation staff, and supposedly finished off Clampett's last two cartoons Becall to Arms, and The Big Snooze.

[Sogturtle]

ACTUALLY, McKimson's unit was the continuation of Frank Tashlin's unit..... I think.
After Bob Clampett left WB, Art Davis took over his animation staff, and supposedly finished off Clampett's last two cartoons Becall to Arms, and The Big Snooze.


Small siiiiiiiigh ;) I tried to be very careful and specific in what I said before... The McKimson unit was one and the same as the ORIGINAL Clampett (Ray Katz) Looney Tunes unit. It works this way... Clampett had it 1937-Sept. 1941, Norm McCabe took it Sept. '41 to Oct. '42 (drafted), Frank Tashlin succeeded to the chair Oct. '42 till Sept. '44. McKimson got it then and there... Soooo yes the McKimson unit was the ORIGINAL Clampett animation unit (McCabe and Tash were just short-termers). [Also in all likelihood Bob Clampett and Chuck Jones co-directed the first five cartoons back in 1937].

What we designate as Art Davis' unit was in reality only Bob Clampett's between Sept. '41 and early May 1945 (a little more than three and a half years). Soooooo with that in mind the "Art Davis unit" was in full, unvarnished truth the grand old Tex Avery unit (1935-Sept. '41), you know THE TERMITE TERRACE one that had given birth to Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck... Hard to believe that Warners didn't think that through before killing it...

[The Spectre]

Wow, this is fascinating. Is there a list somewhere of who was in each unit (animators and background artists, presumably) during these periods? It would appear that many of the animators seemed to switch units rather a lot during the 45-47 period (when the credits started to be more accurate, and Frank Tashlin and Bob Clampett left, to be replaced by Davis and McKimson) - but only really between those two units, not so much with Friz Fleleng or Chuck Jones. (Although Basil Davidovich started out working for Jones before the Davis unit was formed)

[Sogturtle]

Wow, this is fascinating. Is there a list somewhere of who was in each unit (animators and background artists, presumably) during these periods? It would appear that many of the animators seemed to switch units rather a lot during the 45-47 period (when the credits started to be more accurate, and Frank Tashlin and Bob Clampett left, to be replaced by Davis and McKimson) - but only really between those two units, not so much with Friz Fleleng or Chuck Jones. (Although Basil Davidovich started out working for Jones before the Davis unit was formed)


Mr. Spectre~

A published list that is 100% accurate??? Noooooo... (Of course there's the lists I assembled long, long ago and maybe someday you'll see them...someday ;) ). But it's complicated by the fact that some people came and went before they had been able to attain screen credit, and others MAY have done brief duty as animator when a unit was swamped with work. Bob Clampett looks to have repeatedly borrowed Art Davis and I. Ellis from Frank Tashlin and also borrowed Shamus Culhane. And you're right borrowing or switching with Jones or Freleng was VERY unlikely and unusual, taking the approval of directors and the affected animator(s) (it looks like Clampett swapped Virgil Ross for Gil Turner, who then quit...)

The "45-47 period" shifting of animators really represents the turmoil caused by WWII and then its winding down... Some guys were actually drafted in 1945, at the very end of the war. The animators union was very vocal about wanting the various animators to be able to return to their original studio positions... Something that Warners was surprisingly good at accomodating, considering that they had had to replace those folks who had enlisted or been drafted. Thus people like Dave Monahan, Charles McKimson, John Carey were able to come back and pick up where they left off (Carey back in his old unit, and Monahan back working with his also, though now run by Art Davis in place of the long departed Tex Avery). Several people abrubtly quit (Cal Dalton, Dick Bickenbach, Manny Gould) likely causing some of the temporary shifting. Then there was the one really big exception to the return to the pre-draft jobs... director Norm McCabe (poor Norm).

Lastly, since you mentioned Basil Davidovitch... We should probably point out that he is first credited as working for Bob Clampett and then switched to Chuck. [But HEY!!! what about that published rumor that Jones refused to EVER work with anybody who had been with Bob?!?!? ;) ;) :bosko:]

[The Spectre]

"We"? Who's we? Is Sogturtle really more than one person? (one named Tim, and one whose name begins w/ a C? ;))

re: Norm McCabe- Of course he returned as an animator for the Freleng unit in the 1960s, and either he or someone with his name went on to be a director on Tiny Toons... is this similar to Shamus Culhane's problem with having to be apprenticed and work as an inbetweener several times, despite his experience with animation? (I think it was Culhane)

Did the animators' union have anything to do with the change to more detailed and accurate information in the credits of cartoons from 1945 onward? Speaking of which, do the credits of pre-1945 cartoons tell us anything besides who was working at WB stuidos, or were they completely arbitrary? And what's up with Tom Turk And Daffy being written by "The Staff"?

[Sogturtle]

"We"? Who's we? Is Sogturtle really more than one person? (one named Tim, and one whose name begins w/ a C? ;))

re: Norm McCabe- Of course he returned as an animator for the Freleng unit in the 1960s, and either he or someone with his name went on to be a director on Tiny Toons... is this similar to Shamus Culhane's problem with having to be apprenticed and work as an inbetweener several times, despite his experience with animation? (I think it was Culhane)

Did the animators' union have anything to do with the change to more detailed and accurate information in the credits of cartoons from 1945 onward? Speaking of which, do the credits of pre-1945 cartoons tell us anything besides who was working at WB stuidos, or were they completely arbitrary? And what's up with Tom Turk And Daffy being written by "The Staff"?


Awwww c'mon Spectre don't I get to use a good "royal plural" every now and again??? (Tis intoxicating to the ego :p :) ).

On Mr. McCabe... After the War, Norm reportedly worked all over Hollywood, at one place he was hired as animator and within a couple of months was made the director. And yep he was hired by Friz in the Sixties as an animator for the DF Warner cartoons (Friz didn't really want non-Warner personnel working on them, the exception being Laverne Harding) and of course then on a ton of DF toons. Freleng even let Norm direct (briefly) on some TV work... And yes indeed the Tiny Toon's McCabe was one and the same with the Warners one, he was their living connection to the great historic past.

All the animators were in favor of full listing of credits, but whether the union pushed that as a major point with Warners I haven't found out specifically. However the switch to full credits DOES coincide with the buyout of the Schlesinger studio. The animation credits prior to mid-1936 mean almost nothing (except for the Avery unit), the studio employed the "pool" animation system, so whoever was available and up to the requirements of a scene was utilized (thank the Lord above that Clampett did keep a list of which toons he animated on! Though Bob's list of alleged story credits is baseless and worthless). The unit ANIMATION credits from 1936 onwards are essentially correct as they rotate from animator to animator... Except where someone didn't stay long enough to receive his initial credit (people like Jim Davis, Lou Zukor). By the 1941-43 era there was a major influx of new people (some ex-Disney, some from elsewhere), these guys were EVIDENTLY given much, much longer before being allowed screen (or Copyright Catalog) credit. (Art Davis appears to be the exception to this rule, likely denoting Schlesinger's being keenly aware of his status as a director of dozens of cartoons and that one of those was an Oscar nominee). Thus by 1943 you'll find Clampett's unit only showing TWO regular animators (Bob McKimson and Rod Scribner, Phil Monroe floated in on one). While in reality he had the standard complement of animators plus whoever he felt compelled to borrow (plus Lou Lilly and Cornett Wood and Frank Powers could all have helped IF necessary). On storymen, prior to 1945, the credits were SPECIFIC to the story-unit being used, but rotated between the members of that unit e.g. "A Wild Hare" shows only Rich Hogan, while it was really written by Tex Avery, Bob Givens, Rich Hogan, and Dave Monahan, hmmmm and maybe someone else... ;) Annnnnnd on "Tom Turk And Daffy" with its "The Staff" story credit... That either denotes a storyman who had just quit the studio or someone who was not a regular storyman (I have my strong suspicions). "Tom Turk..." has LONG been fingered (by others) as a cartoon with a very strong probability of being partly directed by Arthur Davis as whatever kind of favor to Chuck Jones (who was having to direct the bulk of the Snafus plus his theatricals). As I've prattled on about before, Chuck's allowing Davis to utilize the "Tom Turk" character and Pepe a couple years later in cartoons LOOKS like his paying Art back for a major favor.

[Nick]

Lastly, since you mentioned Basil Davidovitch... We should probably point out that he is first credited as working for Bob Clampett and then switched to Chuck. [But HEY!!! what about that published rumor that Jones refused to EVER work with anybody who had been with Bob?!?!? ;) ;) :bosko:]


http://lantz.toonzone.net/smilies/mouthdrop.gif
Is there a rumour about that! :eek: http://lantz.toonzone.net/smilies/itchy.gif
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**** (http://www.****tube.com/)

[Pietro]

Lastly, since you mentioned Basil Davidovitch... We should probably point out that he is first credited as working for Bob Clampett and then switched to Chuck. [But HEY!!! what about that published rumor that Jones refused to EVER work with anybody who had been with Bob?!?!? ;) ;) :bosko:]

I'm guessing that Bob and Chuck both co-directed the Ub toons and Clampett's first three Porkys. Once they split, Jones probably took Davidovitch with him...although the facts don't seem to fit right.

-Pietro:daffy:

[Sogturtle]

http://lantz.toonzone.net/smilies/mouthdrop.gif
Is there a rumour about that! :eek: http://lantz.toonzone.net/smilies/itchy.gif



Nick~

Cool jaw-drop! And yes, there was indeed such a rumor. Buuuuut Chuck worked with these ex-Clampettites... Basil Davidovitch (1945), Don Towsley (1964-), and Carl Bell (1967). Furthermore Chuck did describe Rod Scribner in a complimentary manner (and since Scribner is almost wholly defined as a Clampett person...)

[Nick]

Nick~

Cool jaw-drop! And yes, there was indeed such a rumor. Buuuuut Chuck worked with these ex-Clampettites... Basil Davidovitch (1945), Don Towsley (1964-), and Carl Bell (1967). Furthermore Chuck did describe Rod Scribner in a complimentary manner (and since Scribner is almost wholly defined as a Clampett person...)


After he animated Bye Bye Bluebeard, didn't Basil Davidoch then work for Disney? He must of stayed for pretty long since I've seen his name in Robin Hood (1973) credits as a layout artist. :confused:
________
Ford Xb Falcon Specifications (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_XB_Falcon)

[Sogturtle]

After he animated Bye Bye Bluebeard, didn't Basil Davidoch then work for Disney? He must of stayed for pretty long since I've seen his name in Robin Hood (1973) credits as a layout artist. :confused:


Nick~

Right... Basil joined (actually rejoined) Disney in the Fifites (I have to do a little more research in a few days) and stayed till up in the Seventies as a layout artist. Prior to Warners he had worked as an animator at Columbia, and before that at...Disney, as an animator.

[The Spectre]

But didn't Chuck Jones used to be an animator working for Bob Clampett? He also in an interview seemed to say he was in Tex Avery's unit when they did "A Wild Hare", which is strange, because he *directed* "Elmers Candid Camera" and "Elmer's Pet Rabbit", two cartoons on either side of "A Wild Hare" which have a different version of Bugs with a different voice (and possibly a different voice artist).

[Sogturtle]

But didn't Chuck Jones used to be an animator working for Bob Clampett? He also in an interview seemed to say he was in Tex Avery's unit when they did "A Wild Hare", which is strange, because he *directed* "Elmers Candid Camera" and "Elmer's Pet Rabbit", two cartoons on either side of "A Wild Hare" which have a different version of Bugs with a different voice (and possibly a different voice artist).


Spectre~

Quick early-Chuck history... At Schlesinger's he was first an inbetweener for Paul Fennell then for Rollin "Ham" Hamilton. Was rapidly promoted to animator during the "pool" animation years. He and Bob Clampett became best friends and promptly distinguished themselves from the other animators by asking to be put off in their own separate animation room (creating resentment). When Tex came in 1935, Chuck, Bob (and assistant Bob Cannon) were sent with him off to the bungalow thence named "Termite Terrace" where they were joined by Avery's animators from Lantz, namely Virgil Ross, Sid Sutherland and Cecil Surry.

When Ub Iwerks was given a sub-contract Clampett and Jones (who'd been after Leon to let them co-direct) were marched off to Ub's studio to help animate. For whatever his reasons Iwerks walked out after two cartoons and Jones and Clampett found themselves in charge. The first five cartoons bear only the names of Clampett (Supervision) and Jones (animation) extremely strange since ALL Schlesinger cartoons till that point always showed TWO animators names (besides that of the director). These five toons were almost certainly co-directed by Bob Clampett and Chuck Jones. Suddenly Chuck found himself demoted to animator under his old friend, and for the next few months drew Bob's animation-layouts and animated (these cartoons suddenly bear the names of two animators... with Chuck always listed in first position. These Clampett toons are markedly different from first five which had credited only Bob and Chuck. Then in Jones' words he was "rescued" out and given the former "Tashlin" unit (originally the Freleng unit).

And yes, he was long a full director when Tex made "A Wild Hare" (though he openly remained a tremendous admirer of Tex Avery for his whole life). Chuck of course disparaged his early rabbit endeavors (though I'm fond of "Elmer's Pet Rabbit" aside from the awful voice and those darned yellow gloves).

[J Lee]

But didn't Chuck Jones used to be an animator working for Bob Clampett? He also in an interview seemed to say he was in Tex Avery's unit when they did "A Wild Hare", which is strange, because he *directed* "Elmers Candid Camera" and "Elmer's Pet Rabbit", two cartoons on either side of "A Wild Hare" which have a different version of Bugs with a different voice (and possibly a different voice artist).

The simple answer first: Mel Blanc did all incarnations of Bugs' voice during the 1938-40 period. Jones used the one he created for Ben Hadaway in "Elmer's Candid Camera," then went for a more refined, less goofy (pun intended) voice for "Elmer Pet Rabbit." Given the production time and release dates for that cartoon and "A Wild Hare," the voice tracks for Jones' short were laid down before word got back to the studio about how successful Tex's rabbit picture was in theaters, but in time to alter the animation design to Robert Givins' layouts. So you end up with a Bugs who occassionally acts like the real rabbit (the "Dick Twacy"/radio dancing scene and the "Turn out that light!" gag), but also is a less-in-control gripey complainer, which is due in part to Chuck's inability to handle a really strong character confidently in 1941.

As for Chuck working on "A Wild Hare," the only real sense of that would possibly be in the similar end plots to both cartoons, where Bugs fakes his death to fool Elmer. Jones and Avery may have talked over a using the same gag to create a stronger ending for "A Wild Hare" -- Bugs doing a death scene under a butterfly net in "Elmer's Candid Camera" was obviously fake from moment one and portrayed Fudd as an even bigger idiot (if that's possible) than in Avery's cartoon, where Elmer's bullet was a real threat (OK, more to the birds than to Bugs, but it did at least raise the possibility of the rabbit dying, and since Bugs was not a continuing character at the time, the audience didn't have a "Bugs can't die" mindset when they saw the cartoon that today's viewers carry with them).

Chuck's real main contribution to "A Wild Hare" was giving Robert McKimson to Tex's unit just before the animation work began. Bob apparently was traded straight-up for Robert Cannon, who Tex had just recently acquired from the Bob Clampett unit (Given Cannon's later UPA career and desire for "quiet, cute characters" he and Jones were far more in tune in 1940 then he would have been by then with Clampett or Avery, though even Chuck apprently was too wild for Bobo by 1944 -- but that's a discussion for another thread).

Depending on who you believe, Clampett was either the sole director, or he and Jones were the co-directors of the two Ub Iwerks Porky Pig cartoons, and the first handful of cartoons bearing Clampett's name to come out of the Ray Katz Loony Tunes subcontracting factory. Clampett's late 1937-to-late 1938 cartoons are certainly more elegantly designed than what came out of his unit for most of 1939-40, so Jones' handiwork is in evidence there (it also helped that Cannon also moved to the new Iwerks unit from Avery's group, which gave them two strong animators at the time).

However, as Mike Barrier points out in his book, while the early cartoons have a semblence of linear story construction, by the time Chuck went over to helm Frank Tashlin's unit, the plots in Bob's LTs were getting far wilder, and certainly nothing like a cartoon Jones would want to direct if he had co-control over the unit ("Porky In Wackyland" is one of the first cartoons Bob did after Chuck left, and the telltale art deco-like stylines of Clampett's earlier cartoons are less in evidence there, but turn up immediately in Jones' first handful of Merrie Melodies shorts).

Jones' desire for pure character-driven stories, as seen in in earliest MM efforts may have held Clampett back from the really wild stuff he did in 1939-40, but even throughout 1938 you can see the cartoons moving in the direction Bob wanted to go. To see a Looney Tune with Chuck Jones' sensablities, you'd have to wait until "Joe Glow the Firefly" arrived in 1941.

[The Spectre]

Until I can find the video in which Chuck says "I animated on A Wild Hare" I'll keep this thread alive by pointing out another curious Jones and Clampett based fact - Bob Clampett made "Horton Hatches the Egg" and Chuck Jones made "Horton Hears A Who". While Jones worked fairly closely with Dr Suess, what's the story behind Bob's work?

[The Spectre]

OK, it's a whole month later... not sure if that's too late to post on a thread...

I found the quote from Chuck Jones, and, yes, he never says he was an animator on 'A Wild Hare.' He says he was an animator working for Tex Avery in 1937, and simply gives 'A Wild Hare' as an example of Tex Avery's work. He just goes from saying "Avery made 'A Wild Hare'" to "I worked for Tex Avery" in a slightly confusing manner.