Song Of The South [Archive]

Kirby

08-11-2003, 09:13 PM

Sadly, No Nelson. To give n00bs to Song of the South a rundown, It's Because of the African American stereotypes in the "uncle Remus" character and Walt's first sugarcoating of a violent, serious issue. Although Walt Disney only used innocent Stereotypes in Song of the South, A big contrast to what was in most of Warner's fare (like Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs), The Politically Correct Occult
thinks ALL stereotypes are bad and that's why This great film is rotting in Disney's vaults. Some people think SotS has to be as graphic as Schindler's List to accuratly depict slavery , There are pieces of Media far more demeaning to African Americans (such as the Gangsta rap Music Videos which used to be staples on staples on BET and Snoop Dogg's apperances on Girls Gone Wild) and Uncle Remus is no Bosko (sorry Bosko fans :bosko: ), but Disney still doesn't want to show it. I hope for it to turn up on a disney Treasure someday

Nelson

08-11-2003, 09:26 PM

that's why This great film is rotting in Disney's vaults.
By no means SOTS is rotting away in the Disney vaults, as Disney has gone to great lengths to fully restore this classic animated/live action feature.Disney has done the best job possible in restoring their entire cartoon library as other censored Disney cartoons have been fully preserved.Just becuase a cartoon may be offensive to some people, that certainly doesn't mean that the studio(Disney)is letting those certain films rot away, by any strength of the imagination.

rabidrednek

08-11-2003, 10:43 PM

Man I can remember my mom taking me and my sisters to see that movie in the theater when it cam out all those centuries ago. I didn't care about the live action stuff, I remember wanting to see it just for the Brer Rabbit stuff. We had an Uncle Remus storybook that had all the stories SotS took it's inspiration from. It'd probably be worth a fortune now, if it hadn't vanished into the abyss :(

keds1017

08-12-2003, 04:37 AM

rodney

08-12-2003, 09:12 AM

I don't see how you could make the comparsion between adult rap and sex videos to a out date racist children's movie.. Imho i hope they never release this boring piece of garbage :p

Personally, I find Snoop Dogg's so-called "comedy" show on MTV to be demeaning toward white people, but I'm not out rallying for it to be cancelled, because I realize that people should be able to watch what they want to.

If you can come up with clear, concise, good reasons about why this is an "out date (sic) racist children's movie" then I'd love to hear it. In short....put your money where your mouth is. Personally, I feel that it's part of our entertainment heritage and deserves to be seen by a discerning audience.

Kirby

08-12-2003, 09:13 AM

{Posted by Kirby - 08-12-2003 at 01:13 AM "There are pieces of Media far more demeaning to African Americans such as the Gangsta rap Music Videos which are staples on BET and Snoop Dogg's apperances on Girls Gone Wild}"

First of all "gangsta" rap have been dead for at least a decade those video on BET are anything but gangsta...and secondly how in the heck is snoop dogg's appearing in a few girls gone wild video is demeaning to blacks he is the only black guy i've seen in the videos...News flash!! black people like to have sex too!! geez, i don't see how you could make the comparsion between adult rap and sex videos to a out date racist children's movie.. Imho i hope they never release this boring piece of garbage :p

So you dont think that Snoop Dogg's sexist and womanizing behavior is demeaning to the African American culture? If Seeing an established African American celebrity appear in a movie series where Women are treated like little more than Sexual Playthings isn't demeaning, then i don't know what is. Sure, Song of the South has a few Stereotypes, But At least SotS doesn't glorify Gangs and Depraved Violence (i.e Crips). It doesn't endorse a pornographic video franchise and Uncle Remus certainly doesn't make his living by Peddling Marijuana, Cocaine and Pills in the movie. I'm glad this movie is dated for the above reasons. Now that Violence, Sex and Illict Drug use is run-of-the-mill in piees of Media containing African Americans, which makes SotS look so out of that particular Mainstream, which is splendid.

Kirby

08-12-2003, 09:25 AM

By no means SOTS is rotting away in the Disney vaults, as Disney has gone to great lengths to fully restore this classic animated/live action feature.Disney has done the best job possible in restoring their entire cartoon library as other censored Disney cartoons have been fully preserved.Just becuase a cartoon may be offensive to some people, that certainly doesn't mean that the studio(Disney)is letting those certain films rot away, by any strength of the imagination.

I hope so, Nelson. Society is getting to the point where if a classic Movie might be politically correct to some, The movie is done for, and i don't want that to happen to Song of the South

rodney

08-12-2003, 10:15 AM

I too have heard that it's been restored (by order of Roy Disney, the only person with any sense of history and heritage at the Disney studio) but the powers that be are unsure of a release.

I remember seeing this in the theater in 1986, and I don't recall any backlash from any minority groups with that re-release.

Senbei Norimaki

08-12-2003, 03:15 PM

First of all "gangsta" rap have been dead for at least a decade those video on BET are anything but gangsta...and secondly how in the heck is snoop dogg's appearing in a few girls gone wild video is demeaning to blacks he is the only black guy i've seen in the videos...News flash!! black people like to have sex too!! geez, i don't see how you could make the comparsion between adult rap and sex videos to a out date racist children's movie.. Imho i hope they never release this boring piece of garbage :p

He is right todays black stereotype is worst than anything I've seen in a classic film. The rap videos teach black kids to do drugs, disrespect woman, dress only in expensive brand name clothing and act like a thug. I consider rap videos to be the modern minstrel show. I find it funny kids can watch rap videos but can't watch Song of the South. I really think BET should hire Leonald Maltin to warn parents about the offensive rap videos & put them in there proper historical perpective.

I hope Disney realeases the movie in Japan so I can just import it.

keds1017

08-12-2003, 03:18 PM

ok now haven't seen this film in decades but i do remember a certain happy do da slave dancing around like he doesn't have care in the world.. everything is all fine and dandy in south..like he's happy being a slave or love helping his little masters be better adult masters...please i find this whole film{the parts that i could remembers} downright disturbing and racist to it core..

{Posted by Kirby - 08-12-2003 at 01:13 PM
Quote:
"So you dont think that Snoop Dogg's sexist and womanizing behavior is demeaning to the African American culture? If Seeing an established African American celebrity appear in a movie series where Women are treated like little more than Sexual Playthings isn't demeaning, then i don't know what is."}

Nope, not to me i don't broad brush one race or thinks it hurtful just because a one person from that race indulge themselves in deviant behavior.. I sorry but snoop dogg behavior doesn't take away or hurt anything from the "black culture" as you put it. Also hollywood{which is mostly white} been using woman as sex playthings for a long time now.. but my problem is that your comparing movies and media that are meant for adults to Sots which is a children's movie.. to me that's silly!! btw this idea that rap or "gansta rap" :rolleyes: are the reason or cause of the problems in black america or white america has to stop!! Rap is no more different from the Hollywood movies,videogame, or any other form entertainment medium. so please stop *****ing about it!!

Kirby

08-12-2003, 03:32 PM

He is right todays black stereotype is worst than anything I've seen in a classic film. The rap videos teach black kids to do drugs, disrespect woman, dress only in expensive brand name clothing and act like a thug. I consider rap videos to be the modern minstrel show. I find it funny kids can watch rap videos but can't watch Song of the South. I really think BET should hire Leonald Maltin to warn parents about the offensive rap videos & put them in there proper historical perpective.

I hope Disney realeases the movie in Japan so I can just import it.

Are you talking about Me or Keds? you weren't elaborate enough

Senbei Norimaki

08-12-2003, 03:43 PM

Are you talking about Me or Keds? you weren't elaborate enough

You are right Kirby.

rodney

08-12-2003, 04:16 PM

Senbei Norimaki

08-12-2003, 04:32 PM

From what I read about Slavery the slaves were treated worst the farther south they were. Maybe Song of the South takes place in Kentucky. I know for a fact no slave wanted to be sold down river.

White kids in the south actually spent more time with the slaves in the south than with there own parents. So Song of the South is accurate in that regard.

keds1017

08-12-2003, 05:52 PM

{Posted by rodney - 08-12-2003 at 08:16 PMInstead of belittling your history, try learning about it. No, the slaves were not all happy go lucky, but they did sing, and I'm sure they tried to find happiness where they could find it. I'd also wage a week's pay that some slaves could see that every white child wasn't a potential slave owner....}

What the heck are you talking about!! That's the reason i don't like the movie they're dipict of slavery and no one is belittling "America's history". Please i never said that every white kid was a potential slave owner!! But you know that those kids we're going to be future slave masters c'mon admit it..yeah your right they sung in the field as way motivate or past the time. but let no get it twisted those forktales and songs were to lift up the spirits of the slaves not to make a these white kids feel good about there life on the plantation{ I talking about movie here}. Dude you have no clue!! there is no reason to get all crazy talking about book burnings or comparing my opinion to nazism your way out line!!!

08-12-2003, 06:52 PM

The world is a different place from when this was first released. Can you imagine the politically correct banter Disney would hear from civil rights groups around the country. To some, a re-release would be deemed as an insult. On the other hand, I think this film can still be viewed in a historical context and for the pleasure of the fiction. Its a little trite to say that the only reason Disney hasn't released it was because of stereotypes. A better answer would be money.

When they release a film on DVD, they often project the possible profit earns. While this video would be a decent sell, it would be a public relations nightmare for the company. As cartoon fans we all have our own agenda, to see animation...original animation. But consider some of the right-wing nut jobs, of all races, with their own agenda. Native Americans complained about Pocahontas. Its a double edged sword to make any historical-based programming, because the only thing historians agree on are vague details in general. Vagueness can't pull off a film.

With "Song of the South", Disney is in a weird position to bare their iconic treasures from the Vault, but have a hard time accepting that our country's past has not always been filled with the happiness the company strives so hard to maintain. I'm up for the movie's re-release, and anyone that would challenge it, I suggest they take it into historical context. Yes, it presents a glossed over version of slavery, but I think a lot of movies gloss over big things. How many films set in the Depression era or the 1960's have just crept around the war? How many films set in the 1950's just mention the moon landing on TV, but don't make that the whole story? Many.

Slavery wasn't jolly, but I don't think that was the intention of the film. Slavery was a backstory, not THE story to "Song of the South". If I recall, its a movie of folk-tales. The first step to dealing with what has happened is being able to look at the past and learn from it, not hide it.

STASHONE

08-12-2003, 08:27 PM

So you dont think that Snoop Dogg's sexist and womanizing behavior is demeaning to the African American culture? If Seeing an established African American celebrity appear in a movie series where Women are treated like little more than Sexual Playthings isn't demeaning, then i don't know what is. Sure, Song of the South has a few Stereotypes, But At least SotS doesn't glorify Gangs and Depraved Violence (i.e Crips). It doesn't endorse a pornographic video franchise and Uncle Remus certainly doesn't make his living by Peddling Marijuana, Cocaine and Pills in the movie. I'm glad this movie is dated for the above reasons. Now that Violence, Sex and Illict Drug use is run-of-the-mill in piees of Media containing African Americans, which makes SotS look so out of that particular Mainstream, which is splendid.

Sorry, but this is the dumbest argument I've read on these forums, possibly more ignorant and prejudice than your mention of any cliche "rap song"....

Though I agree, SOTS should be released and I see nothing wrong with it's content. I'm confident that we will see it on DVD in the next year or so. I'm staying out of topic now, its played out & boring...

PS - The reason Disney is so PC now is because of stupid arguments like this that ensue over such frivolous things...

RockItShipper

08-13-2003, 02:33 AM

My problem with SOTS is something I still see being churned out by Hollywood. "Let's make a statement about race relations by having Bagger Vance use his powers to get some white guy laid. Let's bridge the gap by having 5 gay guys give a straight guy a makeover to impress his girlfriend." The supposedly post-Civil War setting shows all the AA employees primarily focused with the well-being of the white family they work for, at the expense of their own.

That said, I did get the sense Uncle Remus might actually be part of the family and sought them out... but never acknowledged as such, on account of being the son of the master and a slave woman. Eh. Made it more watchable. I doubt anything'll disgust me more than "Birth of a Nation".

pel

08-13-2003, 02:46 AM

Would make a nice Disney Treasure

rodney

08-13-2003, 08:56 AM

{What the heck are you talking about!! That's the reason i don't like the movie they're dipict of slavery and no one is belittling "America's history". Please i never said that every white kid was a potential slave owner!! But you know that those kids we're going to be future slave owners.

Considering that the movie takes place *after* the civil war, I can assure you that those kids were not going to grow up to be slave owners.

Instead of wanting this movie to never be seen again, why not watch it and learn from it? Honestly, aside from the fact that you don't like it, what harm can a rerelease do? Will generations be scarred because of seeing Uncle Remus sing songs and tell stories? Oh, the horrors.

Glenn

08-13-2003, 01:40 PM

Considering that the movie takes place *after* the civil war, I can assure you that those kids were not going to grow up to be slave owners.

Instead of wanting this movie to never be seen again, why not watch it and learn from it? Honestly, aside from the fact that you don't like it, what harm can a rerelease do? Will generations be scarred because of seeing Uncle Remus sing songs and tell stories? Oh, the horrors.

How about, "If you don't like the movie, DON'T WATCH IT". Let others have an opinion before you start ramming your values down people's throat.

This is not directed at your post Rodney

RKillian

08-13-2003, 02:15 PM

Heaven forbid we be allowed to make choices on our own without some left-wing lunatic burning books they don't approve of right and left. It's especially sad when they fight so hard against one thing while turning a blind eye to another equally or more reprehensible act (porn, crime, drugs, rap, etc) isn't it?

Chris Wood

08-13-2003, 02:32 PM

The Song of the South video often turns up on EBay. You may need a PAL compatible VCR since most of the sellers seem to be British, but it looks like you can generally buy the tape for under $50.

rodney

08-13-2003, 03:21 PM

I've got the Japanese laserdisc (transfered to VHS) if anybody wants a copy.

Daniel P

08-13-2003, 08:59 PM

I never understand people who criticize something like, "it's boring garbage, it's racist, it should be banned." Heaven forbid that Disney actually lets people choose what they want to watch. In fact, if I were black, I would take offense to the banning of Song of the South. It is obvious that they don't think you are mature enough to watch something that is considered racist by today's standards. Things change. Just imagine if in the 1940's people saw a movie from 2000. All of that profanity and violence would be considered wrong. Disney banning something because of its outdated references is a slap in the face to blacks. They aren't protecting the blacks, they are protecting themselves from the blacks who don't like it. Think about it, you will see that is what they are doing.

pel

08-13-2003, 09:50 PM

Senbei Norimaki

08-14-2003, 01:10 AM

In fact, if I were black, I would take offense to the banning of Song of the South. It is obvious that they don't think you are mature enough to watch something that is considered racist by today's standards.

I do take offence to the fact that Disney thinks I'm not mature enough to see Song of the South. Isn't it funny that they don't mind resurecting the oldest Black Stereotype in there new Mary Poppins remake. Eisner is a big hyporcrite!!! In 50 years all the Rap videos of today will be considered racist. :shrug:

Has anybody seen the Playstation2 video game Def Jam Vendetta? There are loads of Black stereotypes in that game. :shrug:

keds1017

08-14-2003, 01:23 AM

"Posted by dacp3 I never understand people who criticize something like, "it's boring garbage, it's racist, it should be banned." Heaven forbid that Disney actually lets people choose what they want to watch. In fact, if I were black, I would take offense to the banning of Song of the South. It is obvious that they don't think you are mature enough to watch something that is considered racist by today's standards. Things change. Just imagine if in the 1940's people saw a movie from 2000. All of that profanity and violence would be considered wrong. Disney banning something because of its outdated references is a slap in the face to blacks. They aren't protecting the blacks, they are protecting themselves from the blacks who don't like it. Think about it, you will see that is what they are doing."

Oh man, what's the problem just because I don't like this outdated boring racist picture suddenly i'm infringing on people rights to see this horrible movie.. please man I don't care if they release this damn movie. i was just simply stating my opinion why i don't like the movie . I take more offense to people on this board telling me{being black}when i should be offended.. how do you know what's offensive to me you don't so keep this attitude of "if i was black..." to your damn self!!! :mad:

Senbei Norimaki post:"in 50 years all rap videos of today will be considered racist."

Ok now i know I'm walking right into it but your going have to explain this one to me :confused: . isn't rappers the ones who are make these videos?

"Has anybody seen the playstation 2 video game Def jam Vendetta?"

yeah, one of the best wrestling game i play in a long time beside wwf no mercy :)

Senbei Norimaki

08-14-2003, 04:46 AM

The Black actors who worked on these films 50 years ago didn't consider them racist. The banned cartoon Coal Black de Sebbun dwarfs is a perfect example of this. The popular Black actors of the time actually did the voices of the characters. Mammy on Tom & Jerry was voiced by a real black actress. Today some black people judge these cartoons to be racist and think they should be banned. I wonder how the next generation will judge gangstaa rap videos. That is what I was trying to say.

I know the way Disney can release Song of the South. Have Glen Leedy the actor who played Toby introduce the film and talk about James Baskett the man who played Uncle Remus & Brer Fox. James Baskett was such a talented actor that he even voiced Brer Rabbit in the Laughing Place Sequence. James Baskett was the first live actor hired by Walt Disney for a full length live action film.

Nick

08-14-2003, 05:32 AM

I agree with Rodney, Dapc3 and Kirby that this film is faaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrr from racist. No offence keds1017, but you drove me mad reading your posts :rolleyes: . I have seen Song Of The South quite recently on the BBC and I can't why any fuss should be made, end of story. :rolleyes:
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Daniel P

08-14-2003, 06:48 AM

Keds, you are putting words in my mouth. I said, "If I were black..." Disney says, "No one can see this no matter what." I am stating an opinion, Disney is not letting either me or you have an opinion by banning it.

Being offended is an easy thing to do, but if you're going to ban it that is rediculous. Why isn't Elmer Fudd banned? He's an offensive Caucasian American (trying to use the most PC term possible ;):rolleyes: ) stereotype. Ah, what about Red Hot Riding Hood? Offensive female stereotype. What about Yosemite Sam? Etc., etc., etc.

You see, anyone can be offended by anything, and if we banned everything that is found offensive, we wouldn't have anything.

keds1017

08-14-2003, 01:57 PM

"Posted by dacp3 Keds, you are putting words in my mouth. I said, "If I were black..." Disney says, "No one can see this no matter what." I am stating an opinion, Disney is not letting either me or you have an opinion by banning it.

Being offended is an easy thing to do, but if you're going to ban it that is rediculous. Why isn't Elmer Fudd banned? He's an offensive Caucasian American (trying to use the most PC term possible ) stereotype. Ah, what about Red Hot Riding Hood? Offensive female stereotype. What about Yosemite Sam? Etc., etc., etc."

First of all i said i was glad that the film is not release.. i don't have the power to banned anything. dacpo3 how about respecting other people's opinion that different are from yours which clearly you don't. now, if you truly believe that nothing offensive about this film that's ok it your opinion. clearly where from two different worlds what's offends me might not offend you that how just it is. So let just leave it like that.

"Posted by Nick I agree with Rodney, Dapc3 and Kirby that this film is faaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrr from racist. No offence keds1017, but you drove me mad reading your posts . I have seen Song Of The South quite recently on the BBC and I can't why any fuss should be made, end of story."

Happy to do you a service friend :p Ha! Ha! drove you mad huh!! yes!!!

Posted by Senbei Norimaki - 08-14-2003 at 08:46 AM
The Black actors who worked on these films 50 years ago didn't consider them racist.

Black actors and actress have been complaining about their roles in Hollywood for over 50 years.. remember racism was a stable in america culture back then.

Jack

08-14-2003, 02:14 PM

Posted by Senbei Norimaki - 08-14-2003 at 08:46 AM
The Black actors who worked on these films 50 years ago didn't consider them racist.

Black actors and actress have been complaining about their roles in Hollywood for over 50 years.. remember racism was a stable in america culture back then.
While some black actors felt that thier roles were racist, not all of them did. There are always exceptions.

I've seen black people on TV speak out against rap videos, black slang, etc, as being racist...one person went so far as to call them "modern minstrel shows." So, I think it is perfectly reasonable to think these videos may be considered offensive in 50 years even if it wasn't the intent of the musicians.

rodney

08-14-2003, 02:16 PM

Black actors and actress have been complaining about their roles in Hollywood for over 50 years.. remember racism was a stable in america culture back then.

I recently read an article in Old-Time Radio Digest about Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, who played the butler on The Jack Benny Program. Seems he was paid $7000 per air-time minute, owned two homes and a nightclub, and had 3 servants of his own, and this was in 1947. I can fully understand why he would complain. :rolleyes:

Chris Wood

08-14-2003, 02:47 PM

I'll say this for Keds. Unless you have had the same experience growing up as a minority that he has, there is no way you are in any position to judge what might or might not offend him. The majority is often so used to seeing stereotypes that they don't even really recognize them anymore.

Is Song of the South racist? I've only seen it as a kid, so naturally I didn't pick up on anything like that at the time. I would have to watch it again now to pass judgement.

keds1017

08-14-2003, 03:34 PM

"Posted by rodney - 08-14-2003 at 06:16 PMI recently read an article in Old-Time Radio Digest about Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, who played the butler on The Jack Benny Program. Seems he was paid $7000 per air-time minute, owned two homes and a nightclub, and had 3 servants of his own, and this was in 1947. I can fully understand why he would complain."

yeah that all well and dandy but with all that money he still would've been treat like a second class citizen in some parts of america. and that's more then a reason to complain.

supermonkey

08-14-2003, 06:50 PM

I hated that movie Song of the South

Lucky Bob

08-15-2003, 01:28 AM

First off, I would like to say that it's Disney's movie, and they have a right to show it or not. Censorship is not to be blamed, here. It's not censorship if it's done by a private company.

That said, the reasons why Disney is neglecting this film are absurd. Everyone's already made the correct points about that, so it would be redundant to list them all. But, touching quickly on the stereotype issue, I would like to say that, as an owner of this film on video, (I'm in Europe ;)) there are no offensive stereotypes in this film. Uncle Remus is a wise old man that everyone looks up to. Aunt Tempy IS fat, but hey, that's how the lady WAS in real life! Is it a crime to be overweight? And Toby is Johnny's best friend. A white kid making friends with a black kid? The horror! How offensive! :rolleyes:

As for the accent and speech "stereotypes", that's just bogus. I still find it hard to swallow that the sort of speech performed in this film is considered "offensive", while ebonics isn't. If the speech in this movie is considered "racist", and "trying to keep blacks on the plantation", how long will it be before people say that modern ebonics tried to keep blacks in the ghetto? It's already called "ghetto slang" by some.

And I'm surprised that someone hasn't pointed out the Favers family. If we're going by stereotypes, one could argue that they were unfairly portrayed as "poor white trash". Where are the lobbyists?

So, yeah, the stereotype argument is...weak, at best. Especially if one hasn't seen the film. I recommend that everyone do so before passing judgement on it. It really is a good movie with good morals. And if certain political pressure groups weren't so blinded by race, we'd have it to treasure today.

RockItShipper

08-16-2003, 03:27 AM

And I'm surprised that someone hasn't pointed out the Favers family. If we're going by stereotypes, one could argue that they were unfairly portrayed as "poor white trash". Where are the lobbyists?

Because as much as the Favers were "poor white trash"... the little Favers girl was at Johnny's b-day party while Toby wasn't.

Lucky Bob

08-16-2003, 03:22 PM

Because as much as the Favers were "poor white trash"... the little Favers girl was at Johnny's b-day party while Toby wasn't.

Ah, but if you'll remember, Johnny's mom wasn't too thrilled about the idea when he brought it up! Had it not been for the intervention of his grandmother, she would have never been invited.

Plus, she never made it to the party, anyway.

RockItShipper

08-16-2003, 05:13 PM

Ah, but if you'll remember, Johnny's mom wasn't too thrilled about the idea when he brought it up! Had it not been for the intervention of his grandmother, she would have never been invited.

Still, an exception gets made for a white child. Doesn't matter that she didn't show (geez, you've seen this more than once, haven't you?)... the fact is that she's higher up the social order than Toby... Oh, Toby's ok as a playmate but not as part of the b-day party scene... Yes, we're talking about social realities of the time.... but the Reconstruction period (after the Civil War and before J*m Crow) was a period of growth for African Americans, not an extension of the plantation system.

Cartman

08-16-2003, 09:41 PM

Many blacks stayed on the plantations after the Civil War working as paid farm workers primarily because that was the only home they knew. Just because those blacks were still on the plantation doesn't mean that all blacks were still living in plantations. Many moved to the cities looking for jobs. Even though slaves were free, people still did not think of them as having the same rights as others.