Spider-Man VS Batman Beyond: The Debate Continues [Archive]

James Harvey

10-01-2001, 04:07 PM

Well, I think we're ready to give this debate another go. It's the age old question!

If Spider-Man (Peter Parker) had to fight Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis), who would be the champion?

If anyone thinks this topic sounds familair, it's becuase we've sorta done this before. It started out as a good conversation, but ended up as a debacle due to the poster JustWhelmed who had more than one personality, and had a major dislike for me. I dunno why - but from day one she/he/it/Satan/Kathie Lee tried to discredit me. That person has since been banned. Here's the original thread for interests sake:

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2425

Now, the question again:

If Spider-Man (Peter Parker) had to fight Batman Beyond (Terry McGinnis), who would be the champion?

Kitty Pryde

10-01-2001, 04:11 PM

I go with my buddy spidey i mean geez it would be a good fight
Terry has a lot of tricks up his sleeve that spidey villians wouldnt even try but at the end of it spiderman has fought harder charaters so i go with good old pete

LazyReaper

10-01-2001, 04:22 PM

Spidey definetely, no contest.

Spider-sense, agility, strength, web, and a whole lot more experience than Terry, not to mention that he's also a scientist, and will use his brains alot more than Terry ever will in a fight.

Spidey will definitely win, no question...

On the other hand if it were Bruce in his prime... the match could come down real close to either one of them...

Firefly

10-01-2001, 04:54 PM

I would love to say Terry But Spider-man just has too many things that would just beat the tar out of bats

Calhoun07

10-01-2001, 05:04 PM

I am siding with Spider Man on this one, too. For all of Terry's gadetry, Spider man's toys are just better, and on top of the spider sense and agility mentioned already, Spider Man has far more training and experience under his belt. And Spider Man has also taken down villians that were more powerful than Terry's Batman.

DarkAngel

10-01-2001, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Aximlli

On the other hand if it were Bruce in his prime... the match could come down real close to either one of them...

Now that's not fair. Just because Bruce was the original Bat doesn't mean he's invincible. He'd last shorter than Terry against Spidey, because Bruce has normal, human strength. Spidey would break his neck with one punch.

Terry's suit allows him to take a lot of punishment and gives him a lot of power. Plus, he can make himself invisible, has a open commlink to Wayne, can stick to walls, can fly, has youth, batarangs, and the batmobile at his call. And, as mentioned when this was debated before, Terry's got fighting skills.

It's hardly the lopsided affair you're all making it out to be given everything Terry's got at his disposable. The suit's power allows him to stay in the match, and his superior fighting skills gives him a great edge.

Kitty Pryde

10-01-2001, 06:26 PM

Your joking right terry beating spidey hehehe no chance

Bird Boy

10-01-2001, 06:26 PM

Terry defeated the joker..so it's really no contest...He'd win..not Mr. Parker...

Mainly because. Batman has all of those gadgets on his suit and he could whoop anyone's butt if he really set his mind to it. Sure, Spider-Man is acrobatic and shoots silly-string out of his hands, but, Terry's suit and/or bat-a-rangs could cut him down to size..

-BB

Trent Lane

10-01-2001, 08:36 PM

I'll agree with BB, Terry's got a good chamce at taking down Peter. But looking at a good number of the other posts, you guys seem to be handing Terry yet another loss (see Bruce v. Terry thread) I tell you, Terry gets no respect, no respect at all :p

Joe Tully

10-01-2001, 09:18 PM

Spidey would win. Terry has all kinds of gizmos, but I think that between Spidey's spider-sense and agility, it's pretty much impossible to hit him. Plus, I think that the biggest difference would be experience. Spidey has probably as much experience as the original Batman. He knows how to take people down, he's been had years avoiding getting hit by junk like batarangs for years, he's fought Venom who could turn invisible like Terry (or at least camouflage very very well, to the point of being virtually invisible) and many other villains, while Terry hasn't had as much practice. Spidey also has some pretty incredible strength, I think probably more than Terry.

Now that's not fair. Just because Bruce was the original Bat doesn't mean he's invincible. He'd last shorter than Terry against Spidey, because Bruce has normal, human strength. Spidey would break his neck with one punch.

Yeah, Bruce isn't invincible, but he has a lot more experience than Terry, has more fighting skills, and is just plain smarter. Besides, there is a difference between strength (being able to dish punishment out) and durability (being able to take it). So unless the suit protects Terry too (I dunno if it does) a punch would hurt him just as much as it would hurt Bruce. Bruce has just so much more experience, he knows how to think on his feet and roll with the punches, but Spidey/Bruce is for a different thread.

Terry defeated the joker..so it's really no contest

Yeah, Terry did, but I think that's irrelevant. Spidey's beaten people just as dangerous as Joker, including Joker himself in the Spider-Man/Batman crossover.

DarkAngel

10-01-2001, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Joe Tully
Yeah, Bruce isn't invincible, but he has a lot more experience than Terry, has more fighting skills, and is just plain smarter. Besides, there is a difference between strength (being able to dish punishment out) and durability (being able to take it). So unless the suit protects Terry too (I dunno if it does) a punch would hurt him just as much as it would hurt Bruce.

Terry's been through so many walls that there's absolutely no doubt that the suit does protect. Terry won't be hurting from Spidey's punches (at least not right away). Also, Spidey's got super-strength, so Bruce, despite all the experience he has, will not be able to hurt him in a fight.

All of you are right about Terry's lack of experience. But the Terry we see by the end of BB's run is a different Terry from the one that we saw in "Rebirth." He's been through a hell of a lot, including the events seen in ROTJ. What we're talking about here is a fight. Terry's got enough experience to handle himself. And as I said before, Terry's got a commlink to Wayne. So, in that sense, he most definitely has experience at his disposal.

Terry/Batman with Wayne's experience versus Spidey? No question, Terry wins.

batboy2001

10-01-2001, 10:15 PM

See DG I have even more spidey fans now, j/k. Anyway I said it a hundred times spidey would win. BB couldn't beat Curiare by himself, Spidey could have.

LazyReaper

10-01-2001, 10:20 PM

A commlink can only do so much. In a fast paced battle of punches and kicks, Bruce won't be able to talk to Terry without having him lose complete concentration of the battle. IMO the commlink in a fast paced battle would be a down side for Terry.

Terry can climb walls and turn invisible but Spidey's sense will detect every hit and batarang Terry throws a mile away. Terry can fly, but that doesn't mean Spidey can't still defeat him. Spidey's defeated numerous flying enemies, ex: Green Goblin.

Terry's got good agility but Spidey's is much better. Terry's amplified strength 10 to 1 is no match for Spidey 10 ton strength power. Even with Terry's suit durability, Spidey could still knock the wind out of him and leave him gasping for air.

With his face being the weakest part of the suit, Spidey with a couple of mere punches could knock him unconcious or just plain bleed him to death. If that doesn't work, all Spidey has to do is shred or wear out the suit, and then Terry is definitely done for. Terry is durable, but only because of the suit. And once the suit is gone, Terry's done for. It doesn't matter what he's been through; Spidey could beat Bruce in his prime. Terry would be no different.

Joe Tully

10-01-2001, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by DarkAngel

All of you are right about Terry's lack of experience. But the Terry we see by the end of BB's run is a different Terry from the one that we saw in "Rebirth." He's been through a hell of a lot, including the events seen in ROTJ. What we're talking about here is a fight. Terry's got enough experience to handle himself. And as I said before, Terry's got a commlink to Wayne. So, in that sense, he most definitely has experience at his disposal.

Terry/Batman with Wayne's experience versus Spidey? No question, Terry wins.

Even if Terry is more experienced by ROTJ, he is still not as experienced as Spidey. Remember, Spidey has been around since IIRC 1963, so that's 38 years of comic books appearances, in his own various books (he's had 4 comic books for quite some time now, I think at least 15 years, and had 2 or 3 for a while before that) plus guest appearances in other books. That is a lot of fights. Terry's had a little over 50 adventures, unless you want to count the comic appearances, but even including those his experience absolutely pales in comparison to Spidey's. He has taken on practically everyone in the Marvel Universe over the course of his life. Plus, you guys are really underestimating the Spider-sense. Anything that Terry throws at Spidey will be detected way in advance, and the Spidey-sense combined with his agility makes him practically untouchable.

There is nothing Terry can present that Spidey hasn't seen before. Invisibility? He's fought the Invisible Woman and Venom. Electricity? Fought Electro. Super strength and flight? Probably too many too mention.

Wayne can help Terry during a fight, but that doesn't mean that Terry gains all of Wayne's experience. A lot of experience is instinctual. Plus, Terry can't call time-out to ask for help in-between punches. Wayne will help a little, sure, but it's not like Terry's suddenly got all of the knowledge of Bruce, or that Bruce can hold his hand the whole way through the fight.

frame runner

10-02-2001, 01:23 AM

With action figures, my friend and I actually enacted the fight that served as the inspiration for this thread. And I am proud to announce that Batman Beyond was the victor. Everytime spidey would try any of that web slinging stuff, batman would slice it up mid air with his spinning saw. Sure, Spidey got in more than a few good punches and body slams, but overall, the suits strenth and the protection it provided allowed Terry to privail. Due to his "tingling spider senses," sneaking up on spidey is nearly impossible. Batman's invisible mode wasn't really used. Although, the spider senses really only tell spidey that an enemy is in the area, not his exact location. I don't really recall the speciffics of the fight, but I remember Terry hitting that electricity button on his belt alot. Like when Spiderman would grab him. Batman shot one of Spidey's web launchers with a batarang, breaking it. I tried to say that the batarang took off Spiderman's arm, but my friend refused to except that. Anyway, after McGinnis kicked Parkers spider sandwich, he contacted Bruce on his com and stupidly used Bruces name. Spidey was down, but not out, and after evesdropping on the convo, ran home to publish the true identity of Batman in his college newspaper. Luckily, Terry had planted a bat tracer on Spidey while he was unconscious. He tailed spidey all the way back to Aunt May's, and threatened to kill her and Mary Jane should Parker decide to tell the secret.

LazyReaper

10-02-2001, 06:45 AM

That doesn't prove anything. If you have both Spidey and BB action figures and you side with BB more, of course he'll win! Anyone can play out a fight with action figures, making either Spidey or BB win, depending on who they like best; Doesn't mean that's right. And that end story you came up with is irrelevent of what we're really talking about.

The only way to know for sure is with a actual comic or an episode; But I doubt that would ever happen. Marvel and DC wouldn't risk having one of their best superheroes go against each other; It would result in a bad profit for either of them.

frame runner

10-02-2001, 11:07 AM

actually, my friend was in control of spiderman, and I was in control of Batman Beyond.

DarkAngel

10-02-2001, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Joe Tully

Wayne can help Terry during a fight, but that doesn't mean that Terry gains all of Wayne's experience. A lot of experience is instinctual. Plus, Terry can't call time-out to ask for help in-between punches. Wayne will help a little, sure, but it's not like Terry's suddenly got all of the knowledge of Bruce, or that Bruce can hold his hand the whole way through the fight.

Very true. I didn't mean that Bruce's experience transferred to Terry. Just that he's there to offer insight/comments. And that *is* meaningful given that this is Bruce we're talking about.

As far as considering everything Spidey's faced: Yeah, that's no doubt impressive. But looking at it like that almost makes him appear invincible, and that's just not the case. I've read Spiderman comics and seen him take hits. Very often, they're hits from an opponent that isn't all that fast. Spidey's human, not a god. Terry can hit him. And if Terry can hit him, Terry can win. And obviously the reverse is true as well. Spidey can hit Terry, which means he can win. You're all making this out to be a situation in which Terry's Batman can't do a single thing. In reality, it would never be like that. The two would trade blows, and that means either could win.

Kitty Pryde

10-02-2001, 11:16 AM

thinking about it yet again it kills me to say this but
If bruce was giving terry advice I think terry could stand a slim chance of beating him

James Harvey

10-02-2001, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by frame runner
actually, my friend was in control of spiderman, and I was in control of Batman Beyond.

That still doesn't prove anything. The only way this could be "proven" is if the DC and Marvel editor office agreed on the outcome - something that will neevr happen.

It's hard to say. I would like to saw it'd end in a draw and both of them would stop fighting for some reason, but I just have this feeling that Spider-Man would win. I know in the previous version of this thread I said Terry would win hand down, but I'm not so sure. Peter has more experience on his side, and is older. He's been Spidey for about ten years and has learned tricks of the trade. He's taken pointers from Captain America and has even fought side-by-side with Bruce in the Batman/Spider-Man one shot.But then again, that team up was in comic continuity and this fight obviously wouldn't be in that comic continuity.

I'd have to say Spider-Man would win. Spider-Man has shown he can go fist to fist for a long stretch and can do alot of trickery with his webbing. Then again the same could be said about Terry. He's gone up against hordes of Jokers and has a few tricks up his sleeves.

Damn - they're too evenly matched! Terry could kick Spider-Girl's butt, but I'm not so sure about Terry...

Also, does anyone think I should starty a Bruce Wayne VS Peter Parker thread on the JL Board?

Trent Lane

10-02-2001, 12:58 PM

I think Bruce v. Spiderman and Terry v. Spidergirl are better fights. Go for it, DG...

Phishman

10-02-2001, 01:18 PM

James Harvey

10-02-2001, 01:21 PM

I'll whip up those threads now. And I'll try and search down that art that was in Wizard that depicted Batman Beyond VS. Spider-Girl!

Trent Lane

10-02-2001, 04:23 PM

I think I've got that issue, DG. I'll take a look for it...

Joe Tully

10-02-2001, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by DarkAngel

Very true. I didn't mean that Bruce's experience transferred to Terry. Just that he's there to offer insight/comments. And that *is* meaningful given that this is Bruce we're talking about.

As far as considering everything Spidey's faced: Yeah, that's no doubt impressive. But looking at it like that almost makes him appear invincible, and that's just not the case. I've read Spiderman comics and seen him take hits. Very often, they're hits from an opponent that isn't all that fast. Spidey's human, not a god. Terry can hit him. And if Terry can hit him, Terry can win. And obviously the reverse is true as well. Spidey can hit Terry, which means he can win. You're all making this out to be a situation in which Terry's Batman can't do a single thing. In reality, it would never be like that. The two would trade blows, and that means either could win.

Oh, I think that Terry would hurt Spidey, I agree with you. I was just pointing out that I think that it would be difficult for him. But Terry would definitely get in some hits.

Like any fight, there is no definite "this person would win," it is all a matter of probability. Heck, there's even a probability I could beat Spidey in a fight (very very very very small)

Joe and Spidey meet on top of a skyscraper.
Joe: "Hey Spidey, let's fight!"
Spidey: "Okay!
Spidey leaps towards Joe but lands on banana peel, slips off of skyscraper.

*SPLAT!*

Joe:Woohoo!

Kind of like The Man Who Killed Batman. :D

Calhoun07

10-03-2001, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by frame runner
With action figures, my friend and I actually enacted the fight that served as the inspiration for this thread.

But DG started this thread, and before that JustWhelmed. You didn't start either of these threads...that is...unless...

Frame Runner isn't claming to inspire this thread. They are saying they reinacted the fight that inspired this thread with action figures. I suppose that's like re-creating the famous battles of the Civil War with toy soldiers.

My question is which fight did Frame Runner re-enact?? Batman Beyond and Spider Man never fought in comics or on TV. And how did it influence DG to create the thread?

Frozen

10-03-2001, 03:27 AM

I wrote this in the original Spidey vs Terry thread, and I'll write it again. Everybody knows that when two heroes meet for the first time, they misunderstnad each other, and start fighting. Then they realsie they're actually onthe same side, and then go off and beat up some villains.

So the way I see the fight going is they meet, they fight, nobody 'wins' as they kiss and make up, and then they take doen the new Sinister Six (Doc Ock, Inque, Hobgoblin, Blight, Electro, and Shriek)!!! Now I'd pay good money to read that!!!

James Harvey

10-03-2001, 02:22 PM

You know, the Spider-Man/BATMAN and BATMAN/Spider-Man crossovers were pretty good. The art, done by mark Bagley ad Graham Nolan, was very, very nice looking. But I'm getting off-topic here...

Periphery

10-07-2001, 04:54 PM

One of the major arguments here is that Peter has more experience than Terry. That is cool and all so how about Ultimate Spidey Vs. Terry?

Though I think in that, Terry will have more experience. . .

Hm

Bliss.

Calhoun07

10-08-2001, 12:03 AM

What about Peter Porker, Spider Ham vs Batman Beyond? THAT Would be a fight I'd pay good money to see!

Joe Tully

10-08-2001, 02:30 AM

Better still would be Spider-Ham versus Bat-Bat (from the New Mighty Mouse)

The 2 cartoon-animal equivalents fight! That would be funny. :p

Calhoun07

10-08-2001, 02:52 AM

I am getting an inspiration for a new series of avatars....

James Harvey

10-08-2001, 11:50 AM

Ultimate Spider-Man versus Terry would be a great idea, and a fight easily won by Terry. The Ultimate Spider-Man has just got his powers and is a novice as just about everything. Terry's had at least a year under his belt. I think Terry could pull it off.

Failure

10-08-2001, 02:38 PM

Man, a lot of people got banned from that original post.

As for the battle between Terry and Petey, I think Terry would win. It's hard to say though, it could go either way. Spiderman's super quick and with his spider-sense I'm not sure that batarangs or Terry's invisibility will help him much. And Spiderman's also got the many, many years of experience behind him. But I'm not so sure Spidey could do enough damage to Terry. Terry can take a whooping, if it came to a slugfest, I dont think Spidey could last out. If electricity does indeed dissolve Spidey's webbing, then Spidey doesnt have much of an advantage over Terry except for his reflexes and jumping skills. Of course Terry can fly. Man, it is pretty tough. I'm going with Terry, because I think it would be a drag-down kind of fight, and I think Terry's more suited to come out kicking then Spidey would be.

Maxie Zeus

10-08-2001, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Failure
Man, a lot of people got banned from that original post.

Nah, it was all the same person!

James

10-08-2001, 05:11 PM

Hmm, been a while... anyway, back on topic

I think such a fight is difficult to resolve for many of the reasons stated - in particular experience, technique and to a lesser extent, motivation (reasons for conflict can to a degree affect the outcome no matter whom is the more superior/experienced).

My gut goes with Spidey, but that, like most people, maybe through so exposure. After witnessing so many Spidey victories in so many formats one eventually gets it drilled in the head that Spidey would have to be superior. Let's face it, Terry has had many of his comparitively few episodes being bashed in the face by big monsters/small time crooks....

However, I think if we pitch them at the same level of experience, Terry would eventually win. Both characters learn from past faliures, however if we take on board motivation, Terry has the edge. While Peter will learn and take on board past mistakes his failing comes in motivation. I think Peter needs stronger motivation than just the need to defeat the opponent. Perhaps because he is so ethically motivated. Terry, will learn (the obvious tatic of committing to long range attacks against spidey) and will not require as much ethical motivation as Peter. I think Terry, a little like his mentor, would have the drive to beat Spidey for the challenge of beating him. I don't think Peter is that superficial and would require more of a reason to get so involved in such a battle... and that extra motivation on Terry's behalf would possibly be whats needed to just give him that edge...

I may be wrong, but it gives this thread another nibblet to play with.... ;)

Failure

10-08-2001, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus

Nah, it was all the same person!

Oh really? LoL. It makes more sense now. I was wondering about DG's "more than one personality" comment.

James Harvey

10-09-2001, 03:44 PM

Peter and Terry almost have the same drive behind them, if you think about it. Terry lost his dad because of his selfishness, and Peter lost his uncle becuase of his selfishness. Granted the situtations area bit different, but they are both generally the same horrifiying experience. I'm not sur eif this has anything to do with the fight, but with the same ambition driving themselves, it can prove to be quite a fight.

Calhoun07

10-09-2001, 05:08 PM

That's a good point! And I think that with Terry having a little extra help from Bruce, beating the ultimate Spider Man wouldn't be that hard for him!

James

10-09-2001, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
Peter and Terry almost have the same drive behind them, if you think about it. Terry lost his dad because of his selfishness, and Peter lost his uncle becuase of his selfishness. Granted the situtations area bit different, but they are both generally the same horrifiying experience. I'm not sur eif this has anything to do with the fight, but with the same ambition driving themselves, it can prove to be quite a fight.

Do they? Agreed, they both have similar history, and both do indeed look for some form of redemption, but I find there is a different style to their motivation. Peter's in singular and individual. The infamous power to responsibilty ratio is a personal motivation, a wish to put his gift to ethical benefits instead of personal gain. I find Terry's far colder. His is less to do with the death of his father and more to do with returning something back to society from which he feels he once robbed. Terry's is less a personal. Like his mentor, the value of Batman is to the city. The city is almost a living breathing entity for which Batman is an antibody - a crusader...

Terry (from personal impression and what I gleened from the episodes) is there to be a cure to society rather than a burden. Peter is far more involved in personal involvelment. There is no crusade like with the Batmen, just a wish to get through day to day living to the best of his ability as a person.

I think Terry's more personal crusade would give him the edge of Spider's more flipant motivation. IMO of course! :D

DarkAngel

10-09-2001, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by SJJ

Terry (from personal impression and what I gleened from the episodes) is there to be a cure to society rather than a burden. Peter is far more involved in personal involvelment. There is no crusade like with the Batmen, just a wish to get through day to day living to the best of his ability as a person.

But when you word it like that, it would seem that Peter's is colder due to the fact that it's personal for him. I would think that personal involvement would always make one a little colder, a little more driven.

I agree that Terry's drive would be greater, but I think it stems from the role that he's stepped into (Batman) and world he's grown up in (one that involves Batman). Or maybe it would be simpler to say that it's the personality of these two individuals that matters. Terry's reaction to seeing his father dead was a desire for payback. He wanted to put away the man responsible. When facing Blight in "Ascension," we definitely saw a cold efficiency reminiscent of Bruce's Batman.

Peter is also burdened by a family death, but he's approached it differently. He feels its his duty to protect the city and make up for the wrong he allowed, but he hasn't let that darken his spirit or weigh him down.

In actuality, Terry's not unlike Peter as a person, but Gotham is a much darker city, and Batman a much darker role. By residing in the city and accepting the mantle, Terry's also allowed that darkness to rub off on him. It couldn't be any other way. And that's what gives him more of a "drive" when compared to Parker.

James

10-10-2001, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by DarkAngel

But when you word it like that, it would seem that Peter's is colder due to the fact that it's personal for him. I would think that personal involvement would always make one a little colder, a little more driven.

I agree, however in both cases, I think one can argue that both have gained a more positive attitude from a negative event. I'd say that Terry's father's death has made him a colder individual. He is now able to vent the anger he was carried and control it. Batman gave him a direction. I think Terry from being emotional and irresponsible has become detatched and calculating. A little more like his mentor.

Peter's epiphany, through his uncles death brought him a clearer picture of his life and how he should lead it. While Ben's death affected him, I think it brung forth a more positive - responsible - Peter who now was able to use his great power with responsibilty. His quest, IMO, is a personal one. How he uses his gift is what's important and not the quest of crime fighting, which I think is Terry's motivation.

IMO, of course! :)

DarkAngel

10-10-2001, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by SJJ

His quest, IMO, is a personal one. How he uses his gift is what's important and not the quest of crime fighting, which I think is Terry's motivation.

Ok, I think I see the distinction.

James

10-11-2001, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by DarkAngel

Ok, I think I see the distinction.

If there is a distinction - it's only my humble opinion and I seem to have scared everyone off - again! :D

James Harvey

10-13-2001, 03:48 PM

Well, how about Spider-Man versus some of Terry's villians and vice versa? We can still keep the discussion in this thread if ya like.

batboy2001

10-13-2001, 04:22 PM

I really think spidey's villians would beat BB's. Shocker, Hob goblin, Rhino and company would win.

James

10-13-2001, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by batboy2001
I really think spidey's villians would beat BB's. Shocker, Hob goblin, Rhino and company would win.

Actually, the villians in BB and Spidey are very similar, relying very much on brawn over a brain - a trait that seems quite popular in 'Marvel' these days....

I could see Mad Stan and Spidey sluggin it out... Mad Stan and Hob Goblin would be interesting too...!

Shocker Vs Shriek... :D ... Money on Shriek I think...