Who would win?

[Kitty Pryde]

Ok im doing some fan fics just about a charater vs. another charater.
If you could vote for me who the winners would be and then i can write them in also if you want to leave any comments about the fights that would be cool.

Ok obviously it has to be done
who would win out of Batman (TNA OR TAS) Vs. Terry (Batman Beyond)?

More matchs to come

[James Harvey]

Simple. Bruce Wayne would. He almost whupped Terry in BATMAN BEYOND #1, so I see no reason why Bruce in his prime can't show Terry a thing or two now.

[Trent Lane]

No contest, it's Bruce all the way. Like DG said, see BB#1 because it's the best example there is. And this is when Bruce is old, just imagine how bad Bruce would beat Terry if he were in his prime...

[James Harvey]

A big reason why Bruce will win is becuase he already has twenty ways to defeat someone before he even throws a punch. This guys plans it ALL out. While Terry is still a good character, he still can't hold a candle to Bruce in anyway.

[Kitty Pryde]

I think the question every one should ask your self is what makes batman.
is it the suit or the person driving it?

[James Harvey]

That's a pretty easy answer. The person. And in this case - Bruce would still be better than Terry. Bruce molded himself into this. Terry just fell into it.

[Salvor]

Originally posted by Kitty Pryde
I think the question every one should ask your self is what makes batman.
is it the suit or the person driving it?
'Lost Soul' has already sorted this out, I guess.

[James Harvey]

Great point, Salvor. I'm not saying Terry is a crappy Batman. Bruce is just better.

[Kitty Pryde]

its not really a thing you can sort out in my opinion

[JLU Dude]

I gonna argee with everyone. Bruce (both in BB and TAS/TNBA) would kick Terry's butt.

[James Harvey]

I think it's something that's easy to sort out. While Terry may eventually grow into a GREAT Batman, he's only a good one right now. Bruce is THE Batman, and no other incarnation could beat him. Bruce has spent his whole life studying and training. Terry hasn't? Bruce is prepared for everything. Terry isn't. Bruce uses mind over brawn. Terry doesn't the vast majority of the time. I think it's pretty one sided.

[Trent Lane]

I'm in no way doubting Terry's abilities, he just couldn't beat Bruce, costume or not. Look at all Bruce has gone up against. He's physically and mentally more sharp than Terry...

[Kitty Pryde]

Ok i think it is clear that Bruce would win

so what should the next match be

Im thinking Nightwing Vs. Stalker?

[Trent Lane]

Maybe Big Time Vs. Killer Croc? Spellbinder Vs. The Riddler? Joker Vs. Blight? Batgirl Vs. Max:D

[Kitty Pryde]

Spellbinder vs. scarecrow would be cool
I think Max vs batgirl would be good
I have never seen big time so some one else would need to write that

Ten vs catwomen? sherik vs mr.freeze?

[optimal321]

Originally posted by Kitty Pryde
Ok i think it is clear that Bruce would win

so what should the next match be

Im thinking Nightwing Vs. Stalker?

Wait for me to vote!!!:D

Okay. I think Bruce would win. Heck, even in BB time he could still beat Terry up. And that's nothing against Terry. He is an awesome Batman. He's his own Batman. And Bruce is his own Batman. And leaving character strengths aside (Bruce still comes out on top though!) Bruce has better fighting skills and more experience than Terry.

But i still love you Terry!;)

[Firefly]

Bruce all the way

[DR. BELCH]

--wanted to see Ra's Al-Ghul vs. Jason Blood...the world's two oldest men duke it out. The prize is the demon Etrigan, whom Ghul knows is the only true ticket to immortality, and considers Blood a weakling because he's never exploited his two millenina of life.

[Failure]

Ack I'm late. Bruce would win. I think you could give Terry the BB suit and Bruce a rubber ball, and Bruce would still win pretty handily. No offense to Terry, he's good, but Bruce is essentially the pinnacle of human condition.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by Failure
Ack I'm late. Bruce would win. I think you could give Terry the BB suit and Bruce a rubber ball, and Bruce would still win pretty handily. No offense to Terry, he's good, but Bruce is essentially the pinnacle of human condition.

Ok, but consider this. Terry's Batman has always had the commlink to Wayne. And the Wayne of the BB time period has been through everything his past self has gone through, plus more. Terry/Batman with the Wayne on the commlink would beat Wayne's Batman. We're talking about Bruce Wayne's experience and the batsuit in Terry's hands.

[superfreak]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
Simple. Bruce Wayne would. He almost whupped Terry in BATMAN BEYOND #1, so I see no reason why Bruce in his prime can't show Terry a thing or two now.

In BB#1 Mr. Wayne almost beat terry because Terry lets him. Terry did it in order to draw Mr. Wayne closer so he can use the flashing light to get Bruce out of the trance that he is in. Also Terry seems very reluctant to fight Mr. Wayne. If the two went at it I know Bruce can beat Terry, but it'll be a very hard fight for Bruce Wayne.

[DerekPowers]

thats a great point dark angel. hmmmm, i'd still put my money on bruce, i mean come on, he is practically invincible, but terry/bruce on comlink would make things more difficult for bruce in his prime. But comlink or not, it doesnt matter, terry could never beat bruce's batman, theres no way. Bruce has it all, he prepared for it all, he can pretty much handle anything and anyone. but here's what i was thinking....

what if it was bruce in his prime (around, what, age 38, right?) and terry at age 38 (or however old bruce is officially in tas/tnba). Bruce trained extensively in every kind of combat realted situation, fought endless battles w/ the crime lords and freaks of gotham, been through alot personally, and this is all before HIS PRIME. That definately comes with time. If terry was to spend another 21 years training, fighting supervillians like inque and shriek, and just growing wiser as a person, then who knows? lets face it, terry in bb definately isnt in his prime (no offense to terry, but he makes alot of rookie mistakes because he is a rookie.) So could bruce in his prime beat terry in his? now thats a tough call for me, but if you twisted my arm i'd still say bruce, but its only by a hair. what do you all think? peace.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by DerekPowers
lets face it, terry in bb definately isnt in his prime (no offense to terry, but he makes alot of rookie mistakes because he is a rookie.)

You're right, of course. Terry is a few years from his prime physically, and perhaps mentally as well. That's one of the reasons I find it difficult to debate a battle between these two. It's not quite fair in that one's a youth, while the other's experienced and near his prime. Same thing applies to the debate between Spiderman and Terry's Batman.

[Kitty Pryde]

To be honest i find that it would be a hard fight for bruce if he was in his prime but THE REAL BATMAN always finds a way to beat his foes

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by Kitty Pryde
To be honest i find that it would be a hard fight for bruce if he was in his prime but THE REAL BATMAN always finds a way to beat his foes

Terry isn't better, but is just as much the real Batman as Bruce Wayne.

[Kitty Pryde]

And do we all count ms.Kelly or azeral as the real robin or batman?

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by Kitty Pryde
And do we all count ms.Kelly or azeral as the real robin or batman?

I don't understand the reference to ms. Kelly, so I won't comment on that. But Paul Valley...it's tough to say. The obvious conclusion is that he just wasn't ready to handle the role with the System being so new to him. He was far to brutal for the role, which is why seemingly everyone hated him during Knightquest. However, it was clear on so many occassions that Paul was giving his all to fight the System. I think Paul the man was capable of being a true Batman, but the System overpowered him, turning Batman into Azrael.

I haven't read much following Knightquest, so I don't know how far Paul come in dealing with the System. I've caught up on the No Man's Land stuff recently, which featured him, but not enough for me to guage his character.

But Terry has been perfect in that he understands the responsibility, has handled himself well against villains time after time, has respect for the mantle, and has not crossed the line when it comes to brutality. Terry, by is actions, is definitely a real Batman. Paul, given time, could have been the same. Unfortunately, his role as Batman was clearly only setup for Bruce's return. It would have been nice to see Paul given a true chance (by the writers) instead of being used as a tool for Bruce's magnificent return.

[James]

Originally posted by DarkAngel


You're right, of course. Terry is a few years from his prime physically, and perhaps mentally as well. That's one of the reasons I find it difficult to debate a battle between these two. It's not quite fair in that one's a youth, while the other's experienced and near his prime. Same thing applies to the debate between Spiderman and Terry's Batman.

This is SOOO true. I was about to add this until I catched DA's post!

Actually I'll put my money on Terry if it came to a fight between him and Bruce of a similar age - as Bruce wouldn't have even taken on the mantle so he would be easy to give a good slappin'!

Ah, I hear you cry, but the question refers to BTAS not young Bruce! Well, I still say Terry as he has the earpiece to the older Bruce who will not only know all young Bruce's moves he would remember the outcome of the fight!

Ah, the beauty of a paradox!!

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by SJJ


Ah, I hear you cry, but the question refers to BTAS not young Bruce! Well, I still say Terry as he has the earpiece to the older Bruce who will not only know all young Bruce's moves he would remember the outcome of the fight!

Ah, the beauty of a paradox!!

And the commlink to Bruce applies not only to a fight against the original Batman, but also to Spiderman. It's a huge advantage.
And the paradox. Wow. I never thought that far. Hey, it's true. That might be the perfect reason for Terry beating Bruce. I don't see any way around it.

[doctorcrime]

ms. kelly is a reference to carrie kelly, the girl robin in frank miller's the dark knight returns. okay. last man standing. little kid dick grayson robin in a cage match with carrie kelly robin, tim drake and jason todd. who comes out the winner?

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by DarkAngel


Terry isn't better, but is just as much the real Batman as Bruce Wayne.

Bruce is the real Batman. Terry's just the successor. While Terry may be a good character and all, he's nothing compared to Bruce.

[James]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson


Bruce is the real Batman. Terry's just the successor. While Terry may be a good character and all, he's nothing compared to Bruce.

I'd say give the guy a chance. We have seen Terry at the very beginning of his career while Bruce is a long established mature character.

Teenager characters are never as interesting as more mature ones (IMO!). I'd like to see how Terry turns out when he hits late 20s/early 30s.... but I guess we'll never know....

Sob!

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
Bruce is the real Batman. Terry's just the successor. While Terry may be a good character and all, he's nothing compared to Bruce.

And what is Terry succeeding Bruce as? Batman. It doesn't matter that Terry is nothing compared to Bruce. It's not a competition. It's not a popularity contest. Bruce is the Batman of his time, Terry is the Batman of his. They're both as real as the other.

[Joe Tully]

Originally posted by DarkAngel


And what is Terry succeeding Bruce as? Batman. It doesn't matter that Terry is nothing compared to Bruce. It's not a competition. It's not a popularity contest. Bruce is the Batman of his time, Terry is the Batman of his. They're both as real as the other.

Yes, but Bruce was the original and went through extensive training, and not some kid who had very little training beforehand and was just thrown into a super-suit. Yes, they are both called "Batman" but there is a big difference between who I think deserves the title and who just was chosen by the original as an unskilled Bat-substitute.

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by Joe Tully

Yes, they are both called "Batman" but there is a big difference between who I think deserves the title and who just was chosen by the original as an unskilled Bat-substitute.

I think you nailed it nicely, Tully. Then again everyone has their own different opinions. I don't consider Terry Batman, just a substititue, and that's my opinion. I don't expect to sway the judgement of another just on my opinion.

Now, is it me, or is this conversation getting wayyy to seriously. This thread is one step away from becoming a flame thread (I can tell these things).

[James]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson


I think you nailed it nicely, Tully. Then again everyone has their own different opinions. I don't consider Terry Batman, just a substititue, and that's my opinion. I don't expect to sway the judgement of another just on my opinion.

Now, is it me, or is this conversation getting wayyy to seriously. This thread is one step away from becoming a flame thread (I can tell these things).

I certainly hope this isn't going the way of the flame although it is beginning to come to that immutable question of whom, or what is Batman?

Personally, while I agree that Bruce is the first and by that the definitive article, we are looking at a very young successor which needs time before being judged as good or bad (and there is nothing to say he won't mess up like all the others who have taken the role!).

Perhaps I feel sorry for the boy. He has had a lot of stick from the studio execs and fans alike. I wish we were able to see were the character could of gone.

Perhaps, in some way (and I don't mean to get people heated), Terry could become a BETTER Batman. He is, after all, being trained by the definitive article (a luxury that Bruce didn't have), and his psychological baggage seems a lot less than Bruces' (again, a point that we would yet to see pan out as Terry gets older). Could he have made Batman more of a job rather than an unbalanced crusade. Terry's reasons of redemption are not as emotionally charged as Bruces'. Is this not a good thing?

Surely there is reason here to assume that Terry could be taught to avoid the mistakes that Bruce made by Bruce himself?

What do you think?

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by SJJ
Perhaps, in some way (and I don't mean to get people heated), Terry could become a BETTER Batman.

Yeah, I agree with that. Terry is not in his prime and will be a better Batman in the years ahead.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
Now, is it me, or is this conversation getting wayyy to seriously. This thread is one step away from becoming a flame thread (I can tell these things).

I don't see that. I mean, I'm allowed to disagree, right? You felt a flame thread starting in the BB continuity discussion as well. I've never felt like I was slighting anyone or being disrespectful in either case, but if I'm coming on too strong, I'll back off.

As far as the current discussion, I'll never question Bruce's superiority over Terry. But Terry has handled himself very well, shown respect for Bruce and the mantle, and shown himself to have a meaningful reason for being Batman. Given that and Bruce's trust in him, I see him as Batman. He's not a better Batman and will never have the aspects to his character that made Bruce great. But he's as good as anyone that's not Wayne can be.

[optimal321]

Here's my input, short and sweet. Bruce is Batman. Terry is also Batman. They both have many similarities and many differences. Among other things, one similarity is that they are both Batman. And what's the difference? That Beyond stuck at the end of Terry's title. Just think about that as a metaphor...