the E/I rule, worst thing to happen to domestic animation? [Archive]

RZetlin

07-27-2003, 04:22 PM

I can't believe I haven't heard of this, but whats the E/I rule? :o I can more or less guess what it is, but an official summary would be helpful.

Maybe this article (http://www.civilrightsforum.org/073099-03.html) will provide more insight.

Edit:

Here's more (http://www.cme.org/children/kids_tv/newrules.html) and more (http://www.fox23.com/copyright/coppa.aspx).

Programming considered Educational must meet the following criteria:

-have a "significant purpose" of educating children 16 and under;
-have a clearly stated, written educational objective;
-have a target age group as the intended audience;
-be at least 30 minutes in length;
-be regularly scheduled; and
-be broadcast between the hours of 7:00 AM and 10:00 PM.

Anthonynotes

07-27-2003, 05:38 PM

Well, the "E/I" rule basically states that broadcast TV stations must air 3 hours a week of "Educational and/or Informative" programming. The rule was instituted in the late 90's.

For me, I don't believe the E/I rule is the worst thing to happen to American TV animation; I figure the rise of shows that're essentially ads for some pre-existing toy is a far worse influence on kids. In the old days, the merchandising would (usually) *follow* a TV show coming along; nowadays, it seems to be the other way around.

Yes, I know that we (well, *some* here) have nostalgic memories of "He-Man"/"Gi Joe"/"My LIttle Pony"/the Smurfs/Pokemon/etc. etc., but no matter how well made they are (or *aren't* well made, depending on the show), doesn't change the fact that they're still basically conceived as half-hour ads for a bunch of toys...and I figure kids are already barraged enough by being asked to buy worthless junk as it is.

Granted, I have the same sentiments for shows aimed at adults (creeping commercialism), but infomericals are at least up-front about being 30-minute ads for something... there doesn't seem to be an exact adult equivalent to "Pokemon" or "He-Man"----the exact equivalent, I guess, would be some show that features the characters obsessed over their Ford-produced SUVs and centering entire plots around specific Ford SUV-brands...and then running during the commercial breaks ads *for* Ford-produced SUV's.

I'll also throw in "poorly-made TV shows overall", but that's a problem for both adults and kids. :-)

-B.

StrangerAtaru

07-27-2003, 06:34 PM

I think that one of the biggest problems is probably with the E/I rule in effect, a lot of studios don't know how to make a show that is fun as well as educational. I notice that a lot of the better "ad" shows such as what Brainatra was just mentioning are able to work their way around the fact that they are commercials and use what they have to create an entertaining, and sometimes captivating, show. But while there are some exceptions, a lot of the E/I shows don't really have the talent to move beyond the "educational" aspect and create a fun show that actually teaches something in the end.

RZetlin

07-27-2003, 07:46 PM

The problem with the E/I rating is the requirements are so vague and board.

-have a "significant purpose" of educating children 16 and under;
-have a clearly stated, written educational objective;
-have a target age group as the intended audience;

These guidelines above have no quantitative value.

How does one measure a show that has significant purpose of educating children?

How does one know if the show is educational or not?

How does know if the material being presented is for that target age group?

A Foxbox show like Stargate Infinity got a E/I rating yet it's quite violent with all the shooting of blasters.

I could argue that Yu-gi-oh should get an E/I rating because it deals with the theme friendship.

The E/I rules were created to please parent groups, but offer no positive values for children.

I.R Joey

07-27-2003, 08:15 PM

It's horrible I think, yet some shows can do it quite well and still be very entertaining. For example how many of us can now name many state capitols because of Wakko?

NovaSaber

07-27-2003, 08:25 PM

A Foxbox show like Stargate Infinity got a E/I rating yet it's quite violent with all the shooting of blasters.
The E/I thing has nothing to do with non-violence. Stargate Infinity is no less educational than the "kids with problems" crap that gets E/I because it "teaches about peer pressure". And no more educational than Digimon or Pokemon, which don't have the E/I label.

The only Saturday morning cartoon, currently on the air as part of a network line-up, that is actually educational, is Back to the Future.

zimbach

07-27-2003, 11:44 PM

Granted, I have the same sentiments for shows aimed at adults (creeping commercialism), but infomericals are at least up-front about being 30-minute ads for something... there doesn't seem to be an exact adult equivalent to "Pokemon" or "He-Man"----the exact equivalent, I guess, would be some show that features the characters obsessed over their Ford-produced SUVs and centering entire plots around specific Ford SUV-brands...and then running during the commercial breaks ads *for* Ford-produced SUV's.

What? Did you miss Team Knight Rider? That's almost an exact description of that show. It was a very weak attempt at reviving the Knight Rider franchise with a bunch of talking Fords. Fortunately it only lasted one season, IIRC.

JDNobodi

07-28-2003, 02:56 AM

What? Did you miss Team Knight Rider? That's almost an exact description of that show. It was a very weak attempt at reviving the Knight Rider franchise with a bunch of talking Fords. Fortunately it only lasted one season, IIRC.
This does not make sense to me. :confused: Kit was a Pontiac Trans-am Firebird. Ford is a different company. Are you sure all the cars are Fords?

Kirby

07-28-2003, 10:52 AM

This is the Sum-up of what John K. calls the "Dark Ages". By the 1970's, PC censorship idiots had sucked all the life of of the Vintage cartoons, so The Parent Action groups were able to shove Davey and Goliath, Speed Racer and all that Filmation trash down our throaths. In that time, there were only a few genuinly educational shows (Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, Electric Company) and not enough Watered down Disney and Warner Bros. fare to go around, so the Parent Action Groups commisioned the creation of more shows (This highlight of the 70's would be Fat Albert, a joint effort between Bill Cosby and Filmation). Unfourtionatly, back in the sixties, Magilla Gorilla sparked a trend of TV shows and merchandise cross-selling themselves and that only got worse the 1980's. Those Characters from Cleveland (subsidiary of American Greetings) dished out Strawberry Shortcake and Care Bears Early in the decade to start of. More kiddie fads followed My Little Pony, Smurfs, Rainbow Brite and the slightly more robust He-man and Voltron. These were all 30-minute commercials used to sell sugar and plastic, but the PAGs also forced them to preach morals. 1989 saw the launch of the most hated children's program of all, Barney. The Great Purple Satan greatly helped influence to garbage that rots most preschoolers minds, like Teletubbies. These shows were even more commercially-driven than their forebears. The Worst children's Dumbed-down show Would be Elmo Street. trying to recover from, PC-ness of Sesame Street in the 80's (to say nothing of the deaths of Mr. Hooper, Jim Henson and Joe Raposo) SS was too weak to resist a takeover of Elmo, the most annoying post Henson-muppet in existence. And who could forget the hypocritical Captain planet. For me, The WORST kid's show was Pokemon, and i'm definitly not alone with the choice.An anime which encourages childen to attack wild animals, catch them in plastic containers and use them in fights for personal glory is sad. On top of all that, Pokemon encourages kids to buy cards, cheap slices of cardboard priced at as much as $200.

Kirby

07-28-2003, 11:04 AM

Oops, I forgot AG's other two shows Popples and the Get Along Gang. I hate it when poeple think than Captain Planet is educational becuase it paints a complex situation into black and white. the Parent Action groups thought that children couldn't understand complex issues, completely ignoring Dr. Seuss' The Lorax, which unlike Captain Planet, got the job done in educating kids about Pollution.

Wanted

07-28-2003, 11:28 AM

It's horrible I think, yet some shows can do it quite well and still be very entertaining. For example how many of us can now name many state capitols because of Wakko?I learned my capitols with a book. And that cartoon short never would have helped young children understand the capitols and cram them in their heads in time for the final.

No offence, I used to watch the Animaniacs. Now back to E/I:

Why don't channels just go through this road block like this: "Hey, kids, due to the E/I rule, we will devote three hours on Sunday (the slowest day on earth) to the following cartoons." That simple.

And why doesn't E/I apply to live-action? (or does it?)

Cyporiean

07-28-2003, 11:54 AM

And why doesn't E/I apply to live-action? (or does it?)

Animation is for CHildren, Live Action is for adults

:p

SNS

07-28-2003, 12:42 PM

Speed Racer

Speed Racer is a classic & shouldn't be grouped with those other shows.

An anime which encourages childen to attack wild animals, catch them in plastic containers and use them in fights for personal glory is sad.

The Pokemon aren't being forced to fight, they want to fight. As for Pokeballs, most Pokemon don't mind them & if they do, then they are simply kept outside.

pabcool

07-28-2003, 12:55 PM

The E/I rule WAS pretty durn bad, but not the worst thing ever. After all, Histeria! did come out of the deal...

Anthonynotes

07-28-2003, 01:48 PM

I learned my capitols with a book. And that cartoon short never would have helped young children understand the capitols and cram them in their heads in time for the final.

No offence, I used to watch the Animaniacs. Now back to E/I:

Why don't channels just go through this road block like this: "Hey, kids, due to the E/I rule, we will devote three hours on Sunday (the slowest day on earth) to the following cartoons." That simple.

And why doesn't E/I apply to live-action? (or does it?)

I liked "Wakko's America" (maybe partially from having formerly lived in a capital mentioned in the first line of the song: "Indianapolis, Indiana...").

As for E/I on Sundays: decades ago, they would use to program kids' shows on Sundays (usually local stations airing syndicated stuff), but nowadays, infomercials, Sunday morning political discussion shows, and pre-empting it all for sports coverage seem to take precedence...

As for not applying to live action, while broadcasters are (supposedly) obligated to "provide a public service" with what they air, there's no obligation...but the news/newsmagazines would fall under this, and happen to be highly lucrative ratings-grabbers for them as well (see: "Futurama" vs. "60 Minutes"). And nobody certainly advocates yanking "60 Minutes" because it's (technically) "E/I" to make room for, say, more "Survivor" episodes/infomercials...

-B.

zimbach

07-28-2003, 05:38 PM

This does not make sense to me. :confused: Kit was a Pontiac Trans-am Firebird. Ford is a different company. Are you sure all the cars are Fords?
Yes, the original KITT was a Pontiac. The vehicles in Team Knight Rider (the late '90s revival attempt), however, were Fords (except for this weird custom thing that looked like a van but would pass behind a large object and become two motorcycles). Simple (but obvious) product placement to offset production costs. And yes, I do recall many Ford ads running during the commercial breaks, but I could be wrong.

Sorry for veering off topic. Trying to squeese it back on, yes, many live-action shows are made to the E/I standard and exist for no other reason than filling the quota for such programs on the channels that show them. Remember, one of the criteria for E/I is that the program has to be targeted at children. They'll often get placed right before and after the usual Saturday kids block on network affiliates. Critter Gitters comes to mind.

Wanted

07-28-2003, 06:26 PM

I liked "Wakko's America" (maybe partially from having formerly lived in a capital mentioned in the first line of the song: "Indianapolis, Indiana...").

As for E/I on Sundays: decades ago, they would use to program kids' shows on Sundays (usually local stations airing syndicated stuff), but nowadays, infomercials, Sunday morning political discussion shows, and pre-empting it all for sports coverage seem to take precedence...

-B.I was talking about on CABLE. CN, Nick, and any other channel ON CABLE.

Anthonynotes

07-28-2003, 06:58 PM

I was talking about on CABLE. CN, Nick, and any other channel ON CABLE.

The E/I requirement is a *broadcast* TV-only requirement; cable networks can air whatever they want. Hence my remark about the way TV was decades ago and such...

-B.

Tommy Lawson

07-28-2003, 11:29 PM

In addition to the E/I requirements, here's another very large part of the reason why Saturday morning isn't what it used to be. This one is brand new info regarding ABC, its affiliates, and Good Morning America:

http://www.tvweek.com/topstorys/072803gma.html

Apparently, the networks are obsessed with news, news, and more news on Saturday mornings. I don't want to watch news on Saturday mornings. I'd like a temporary escape from reality at that point, but apparently, the network and affiliates disagree. They even want ABC stations to air local news then, which irritates me immensely. My NBC affiliate is the only one who airs local news then, and they don't have much to report that isn't aired on Friday night anyhow. Just another sign of broadcast TV erosion.

zimfan3000

07-29-2003, 12:13 AM

Exactly WHY is the E/I rule restricted to the networks? If the parent activist groups wanted more "educational" cartoons, then why don't they attack the cable channels, too? If you're not gonna do it to the cable networks, you may as well not do it at all.

I'm not supporting these activists. I just wanna know why they attack only the networks.

raykremer

07-29-2003, 12:50 AM

Stargate Infinity actually amazed me at how well they got the "moral of the day" into the story without taking away from the sci-fi-ness of the story. The morals they did in SG:I were slightly less subtle than the way they work moral problems into real sci-fi shows, but it evoked the same feeling rather than completely beating you over the head with the "teach the kids watching to be nice" lesson.

The short lived CBS "Weird Al Show" was also an E/I show, though you wouldn't have known by watching it. They did pretty much whatever they wanted and it was great.

From a broader Saturday morning standpoint, it is amazing how much has changed. Twenty or so years ago it was CBS, ABC, and NBC. Now it's Kids WB, FOX, ABC, and several cable channels. And none of ABC's stuff interests me. Seriously, does anybody watch network news on a Saturday morning?

TnAdct1

07-29-2003, 01:05 AM

Apparently, the networks are obsessed with news, news, and more news on Saturday mornings. I don't want to watch news on Saturday mornings. I'd like a temporary escape from reality at that point, but apparently, the network and affiliates disagree. They even want ABC stations to air local news then, which irritates me immensely. My NBC affiliate is the only one who airs local news then, and they don't have much to report that isn't aired on Friday night anyhow. Just another sign of broadcast TV erosion.

Definitely agree that Saturday news shows is a bad thing to happen to domestic animation. In fact, the death of Saturday morning cartoons didn't begin with the E/I rule, but rather NBC's decision in 1992 to stop airing cartoons and have Saturdays start with Today, followed by live-action programs geared towards older kids.

Joe Klemm

Kirby

07-29-2003, 01:04 PM

See, This is what happens when Meddling Politicians stick their abused authority into the Media and **** up everything. First it was the Parent Action Groups, Then it was the Christian Groups (Moral Majority, anyone?), now it's the Government. At this rate, It wont be long before they attack Videogames and Music (if they haven't already done so). I smell another Dark Age. Wholesome Family Entertainment doesn't sell anymore, at least not in the general mainstream.

Anthonynotes

07-29-2003, 01:44 PM

Re: news: in the past two decades, local TV stations (and networks) have discovered that news is the most profitable thing they can run: it's cheap to make (just stick ananchor in front of a camera/teleprompter reading regurgitated news stories), it's an attention-grabber ("if it bleeds it leads" sensationalism being prominent), and it works..and is a lot more profitable than running cartoons (adults have a lot more disposeable income than kids do). Hence, the huge # of newsmagazines/news shows at all hours of the day (including Saturday mornings).

Re: broadcast networks only: since broadcast networks are considered a "public resource" (i.e. supposed to serve *everyone* since it's free air space and everyone can get it for free, unlike privately-held, privately-run cable networks), they're technically not considered as "free speech" as, say, the cable networks would be----they're subject to FCC rules regarding broadcast frequencies, spectrum regulations, limits on the amount of ad time, and (to a smaller degree) certain content issues such as obscenities, nudity, etc. Hence, one's limited to some extent on what the *public* airwaves are for---while one's free to run,since it's a "private enterprise", the "All-Crappy-30-minute-Commercials-Posing-As-TV-Shows" Channel if one wished...

-B.

Yal

07-29-2003, 06:42 PM

At this rate, It wont be long before they attack Videogames and Music (if they haven't already done so). I smell another Dark Age
Video games got worked over in the mid 90s after the release of Mortal Kombat, but the industry quickly banded together and self-regulated, putting ratings and content descriptors on every box and avoiding government involvement. The music industry is too fractured to work together and create anything similar, which is why you can walk into any Wal*Mart in America and find copies of Pulp Fiction and Grand Theft Auto, but no Eminem.

BrendaBat

07-30-2003, 10:03 AM

I think that the E/I rules are that a show cannot be called "educational" if its funny, amusing, or edgy in any way :rolleyes:
For example, Histeria was funny, creative, and I learned a lot from it. But it was taken off the air because it occasionally used curse words and mentioned God (thats what I heard anyway)
*sigh* I miss Histeria :(
I loved the censor lady and the perverted nun

I learned my capitols with a book. And that cartoon short never would have helped young children understand the capitols and cram them in their heads in time for the final.
Speak for yourself!! In seventh grade, I passed a test on South American geography because I knew "Lake Titicaca" and "Panama Canal" (both Animaniacs songs) by heart! :p

NEVER underestimate the educational power of a catchy song!
:yakko: :wakko: :dot:

Conan-san

07-30-2003, 11:41 AM

Anthonynotes

07-30-2003, 01:30 PM

I think that the E/I rules are that a show cannot be called "educational" if its funny, amusing, or edgy in any way :rolleyes:
For example, Histeria was funny, creative, and I learned a lot from it. But it was taken off the air because it occasionally used curse words and mentioned God (thats what I heard anyway)
*sigh* I miss Histeria :(
I loved the censor lady and the perverted nun

Speak for yourself!! In seventh grade, I passed a test on South American geography because I knew "Lake Titicaca" and "Panama Canal" (both Animaniacs songs) by heart! :p

NEVER underestimate the educational power of a catchy song!
:yakko: :wakko: :dot:

The "perverted nun" was a take-off on (real-life) Sister Wendy, a nun who appears on some PBS stations in various art-appreciation specials as was made fun of on that H! episode...

-B.

Juu-kuchi

07-30-2003, 08:34 PM

The "perverted nun" was a take-off on (real-life) Sister Wendy, a nun who appears on some PBS stations in various art-appreciation specials as was made fun of on that H! episode...

-B.

Sister Mary Windbag...

That was an amusing little skit, even moreso after I found out she existed. Histeria was nice, it just had some characters that it didn't need.

Anybody remember Channel Umptee-3. I didn't really like that show.

Morals are good and all, but it's choking our cartoons (especially in Saturday morning to death)

Captain Planet was amusing, but who'd want to help pick up trash and everything when you can have your own ring of any natural element of Earth instead?

You want us to like... get down and dirty while you're allowed to lay back and NOT get dirty while some shiny blue guy does the work?

RKillian

07-30-2003, 10:39 PM

Yep, I agree on the current "news barrage" we're suffering through. Whose idea was it to devote entire networks on top of entire days to repeating a dozen events? TV's really getting to the point that I can't be bothered to watch any of it at all anymore. There's just nothing at all I want to watch, and I'm in the wonderful 15-45 demographic everyone says they're trying to please.

If studios would get their acts together and start using DVD to it's potential, cable and broadcast would shrivel up and die like they deserve to.

TruthSayer

08-01-2003, 09:14 PM

A Foxbox show like Stargate Infinity got a E/I rating yet it's quite violent with all the shooting of blasters.

Hey, I learned a lot from that show. Like, if you are in a dessert in a canyon and you see storm clouds off in the distance even if it isn't raining where you are at you need to get to higher ground because of a danger of flash floods.

The E/I requirement was invented by delinquent Parents who have no clue how to raise children and instead let their TV do it. I feel sorry for those poor maladjusted children.