What People have to say about Mickey Mouse [Archive]

Kirby

05-31-2003, 01:09 PM

On the Internet, i found a bunch of quotes i have to share with you guys. I also found a fan battle betwween Mickey and Bugs Bunny. Note: These are NOT my quotes. I just collected them for this thread.

A Lttle known fact about Ren and Stimpy Creator, John K.

"When I was a kid, I loved Disney cartoons, but I wasn't looking at the content," he says. "I just liked the pure and inherent form of the cartoon." His love for Mickey and his friends didn't last, however. "As I got older, I rebelled against Disney. I started realizing how insipid they were." John K. instead found himself drawn to the mean and witty ministrations of Bugs Bunny. "I liked Warner Bros. cartoons because they were rude and nasty, like REAL people!" he says.

What a Toon editorialist says about Mickey

I happen to be a big fan of animation. And I know that Mickey Mouse is the very symbol of animation. But does anybody really like Mickey Mouse? He is virtually personality-free, a goody-goody, a wimp.

What http://www.electricferret.com/fights/toons.htm have to say about Mickey Mouse vs. Bugs Bunny.

You're kiddin me right? Bugs vs. that wannabe rat pansy? Mickey got lucky vs. the giant in that one cartoon, and couldn't even handle animated broomsticks. Now, put him against someone who handles hunters with speech impediments, antisocial midget cowboys, and genius coyotes on a regular basis... the outcome is never in question: it's gonna be ugly. Would Mickey ever use explosives when he could just convince the other guy its better to be nice? Bugs would, then he'll feed the charred rodent fragments to Sylvester who's tired of chasing Tweety and deserves an easy meal.

You have got to be kidding me. Bugs is more skilled in beating people senseless, while Mickey is a wuss plain and simple. Results: Bugs bashes Mickey into a bloody pulp with a combination of mallets, anvils, and a lot of other heavy stuff. Time: 5 minutes

Bugs Bunny outwits hunters with guns, Martians with ray guns, and guys in big hats who want him to do the high-diving act. Mickey laughs at the silly mistakes of Donald and Goofy. Bugs to have Mickey sent halfway to Albuquerque quicker than you can say 'What's up Doc?'

Look, let's be realistic here. This one is a no-brainer. Mickey is going to try and pull some cute and loveable stuff on Bugs, and the rabbit just won't have it. Bugs will even have time to toy with the mouse. I figure he'll offer him a nice herbal tea and then offer Mickey the sugar bowl. "One lump or two, Mickey?" Oh, better give me a whole lotta lumps, I'm so sweet you know." It's just about then when Bugs pulls that giant mallet out from behind his back and lets Mickey have about 15-20 good whacks. Lights out, rodent.

This one has gotta go to the Loony Tunes. Look at the level of violence in any given Bugs Bunny cartoon and compare it to the nastiest Disney bit. No doubt you'll see the logic in my words. Even in the stuff Disney calls movies, you'll never see a comparable level of gore as is seen in any Road Runner short. Besides, how could the looneys lose? Between an "Untouchable" Road Runner and Marvin the Martian's "Instant Aliens" (just add water) they've got the fight sewn up with their sheer capacity and propensity for violence and laughs.

Bugsy wins this one, tails down... Bugsy spends most of his time evading hunters and red haired cow folk.. While Mick spends most of his time trying to woo his girlfriend.. When was the last time Mick was ever in a fight and one.. Oh there was the "Seven in One Blow" .. But that was rigged.. The Giant was paid to go down. Bugsy is the hero.. He saved the earth from Martian invasions numerous times, .. And lets not forget Space Jam... My money is on the rabbit...

If you ever really watch the old cartoons, it's fairly obvious who would win. All the disney cartoons consist of is the main character trying to perform some basic everyday activity (I.E. skiing, fishing, having a picnic, use a fair ride, lounge in the backyard, play baseball, or Whatever) and totally fouling it up. The warner brother cartoons have the character in some life threatening situation (I.E. being held a gunpoint, being tied to train tracks, etc) And using wit, intelligence, and a seemingly limitless supply of dynamite to escape. Given that fact, bugs and the gang will wipe out mickey and friends before the disney bunch untangles themselves from the bungled mess they fell into after tripping over the doorstop into the arena.

The mouse and his little crew of cartoon comrades don't stand a chance! Disney cartoons are too lame and "pc" to use any type of violence. Bugs and Daffy are always mercilessly attacking each other or some third party with anvils and hammers and explosives and, in the case of Yosemite Sam and Elmer Fudd, guns. Besides, the Warner Brothers toons are indestructible. This one won't last very long...

Has Mickey ever gotten violent in one of those amby pamby disney movies? Besides chop up an inanimate object in Fantasia of course. Bugs on the other hand, has expressed superior intellect and a funny-yet sadistic nature in at one time or another inflicted a severe beating on a Warners Brother character. Bugs all the way!

I think that if a real war broke out between Disney and The Looney Tunes there would be no doubt that the Looney Tunes would win. Bugs could hit Mickey with a mallet, run over him in a steamroller, drop 400 mouse traps on him, give him a big kiss then stick an exploding cigar in his mouth and watch Mickey explode. That little do-gooder mouse is dead meat

There's plenty More where that came from, but i shortened them down to save post space

Bakasama

05-31-2003, 06:04 PM

In the earliest Mickey Mouse shorts, he was very different than the Mickey Mouse we get today. He was meaner, more mischevious, and more interesting. He was more like Bart Simpson. What changed him was his success. Mickey Mouse became a company symbol. All the "bad" parts to him slowly got removed in the shorts that came afterward.

JusticeLeagueLegion

05-31-2003, 06:37 PM

I used to like Mickey Mouse, but now, I look at him and think...man he really sucks...he isn't that interesting of a character...now I do like Bugs Bunny...he's awesome. But as for Mickey Mouse and pretty much all things Disney these days are really getting to be pathetic. Sequals? Oh c'mon! Mountains of sequals!! We've got The Jungle Book 2, Pocahontus 2, Atlantis 2, Cinderella 2, etc. etc. etc...it's as if they can't think of something new and original anymore...and when they do, it turns out to be something crappy like Treasure Planet...which is a rip-off of Treasure Island and Star Wars...they even used the same names from Treasure Island...not as original as I'd have liked...I watched it thinking it might be good...but there was atmosphere in space!! How stupid is that?! I know it's for kids but c'mon, that's just dumb...there are several other Disney movies that I haven't even seen yet and don't know if I should because I think I might puke..."The Emperor's New Groove" is one of them...was that worth seeing? Anyway, back on topic, yeah, there's no real depth to Mickey Mouse...and he's not that funny to me either...he's boring. Donald Duck is better...but they always make Mickey get the best of him. Those Disney weirdos! Warner Bros. and Disney should team up to make a "Mickey Mouse Meets Bugs Bunny" movie and have Bugs kick his tail! Don't get me wrong, I have no hatred toward Mickey, but he just isn't worthy of being Disney's biggest "Icon," even though he was the first character Disney made...Porky Pig came before Bugs Bunny...imagine if Porky was Looney Tunes "icon" character...that would suck...and that's how it is with Mickey...they should've made Donald or Goofy be the icon character...but NOOO!

David Gerstein

05-31-2003, 07:33 PM

Guys, how about putting things into perspective with a look at the real Mickey Mouse. The example is from the early 1930s, but an only slightly modified version is still the Mickey people know as a comics character around Europe and the world today.
It is only in America and Great Britain that Mickey Mouse has been dumbed down and sissified. We find tourists coming to our shores and flocking to Disneyland, anxious to see Mickey... and we wonder why.
Here's why...

http://stp.ling.uu.se/~starback/dcml/creators/fg1932a.gif

Kirby

05-31-2003, 08:00 PM

Alos, No one in My post mentions Pegleg Pete, and How many times Mickey Has been put up against him. I have quotes from a Donald vs. Daffy match, but i need to censor those.

Howard

05-31-2003, 08:26 PM

I don't think that just showing a fight scene shows the real Mickey Mouse. He is also good natured, smart and helpful. He won't back down from a fight, but usually he won't go looking for one. In the comics at least, Mickey also played an amateur detective very often, as it seemed to suit his personality. (But of course I don't have to tell David Gerstein that! He knows more about Mickey than I ever will!) Mickey is a product of another era, one that was looking for good natured hero-types. By the 1940's anti-heroes such as Donald Duck (in the cartoons, not the more complex personality Carl Barks would give him in the comic books), Daffy Duck, Woody Woodpecker and Bugs Bunny became more popular. Mickey Mouse was trying to help and protect Minnie Mouse and his friends, while Daffy and the others mainly looked out for only themselves.

SNS

05-31-2003, 09:15 PM

Oh c'mon! Mountains of sequals!! We've got The Jungle Book 2, Pocahontus 2, Atlantis 2, Cinderella 2, etc. etc. etc...it's as if they can't think of something new and original anymore...

I never understand why people say they are making sequels because they can't think of something new and original, it's like people are ignoring the fact that Disney still makes their main movies every year (you know, the ones that count on the list).

and when they do, it turns out to be something crappy like Treasure Planet...which is a rip-off of Treasure Island and Star Wars...

It's not a rip-off of Treasure Island, it's intentionally a space version of Treasure Island. And I have no idea how you considered it a Star Wars rip-off.

they even used the same names from Treasure Island...not as original as I'd have liked...

Well duh, it's a space version of Treasure Island.

I watched it thinking it might be good...but there was atmosphere in space!! How stupid is that?! I know it's for kids but c'mon, that's just dumb...

Actually, it's based on a theory people had before space travel was possible.

there are several other Disney movies that I haven't even seen yet and don't know if I should because I think I might puke..."The Emperor's New Groove" is one of them...was that worth seeing?

Yeah, it was worth seeing.

even though he was the first character Disney made...

Actually he wasn't the first character Disney made, he was the first character Disney made that was truly succesful. Before that there was the Oswald shorts, before that there was the Alice shorts, & before that there was Laugh-O-Grams (the first being Little Red Riding Hood).

Kirby

05-31-2003, 11:29 PM

Here are some quotes from Donald vs. Daffy, http://www.grudge-match.com/History/daf_don.shtml.
Most of them had to be toned down be me to respect TOS.

Daffy, being a Warner Brothers cartoon, is use to working with guns, dynamite, Acme brand anvils (tm), and other instruments of destruction. He knows how and even enjoys working with these items and won't hesitate to employ them on his hapless opponent. Donald on the other hand is strictly Disney, which is going to severely tie his hands. Disney is far too sanitized now to let one of their most noted characters break out the heavy hardware, adverse affect on impressionable children and all that. Thus even before the fight begins, Daffy already has a huge advantage. Now lets look at past experience. True, Daffy doesn't exactly come into this matchup with an exemplary record, but look who he is usually fighting, Bugs Bunny. Just as there is no shame in Lex Luthor losing to Superman, there is no disgrace in Daffy being defeated by the almighty uberbunny. Especially when compared to Donald's record of repeated humiliations coming from an overgrown mouse, his own nephews, and a pair of chipmunks.

At first, the match looks totally unbalanced in favor of Daffy. He has Bugs Bunny on his side, master of sarcasm and quick wit. He has the Roadrunner and Speedy Gonzales, who can outrun anyone. He has Yosemite Sam, known for settling any argument with his two pistolas. Daffy has the Warner Brothers (and the Warner Sister, Dot) who can usually manage to reduce a trained psychiatrist into a gibbering moron in the space of one three-minute episode. He has Slappy the Squirrel, a bit old in the tooth but still handy with a bomb, as well as the GoodFeathers, who don't take **** from anyone (but leave a lot of it on statues). He even has the Kangaroo, better known as the Big Giant Mouse, who has never lost a fight. Plus Michael Jordan, who owes them all one, big time. Together they managed to vanquish a gang of ruthless space aliens. What has Donald Duck got? Mickey Mouse? Wimp. Goofy? Stupid. Pluto? A big, dumb dog who can't even talk. Uncle Scrooge? Some possibilities there: cantankerousness plus the ability to swim through a bin of gold coins as if it's water plus he's a world traveler. . . . But it's not enough against the Warner juggernaut. Looks like a virtual gotterdammerung for Disney, until . . . who can this be, driving up to Donald's house in a stretch limo? It's that irritating but utterly ruthless corporate weasel Michael Eisner, with all of his lawyers!!! The Warner characters are dead meat before they can pull off a single gag. . . .
(Chosen for Trolling, Edited Expletive)

When Donald survives a Duck Amuck-esque ordeal at the hands of Bugs Bunny, I might consider voting for him. Until then, this is no contest, because Donald won't have the pain threshold to compete with Daffy. Let's face it, the only Disney 'toon to suffer anything approaching a Warner Brothers-level of pain is Goofy, and even then, it was all self-inflicted. Bottom line: Disney 'toons can't fight. And as for the point made about WB rifles being able to be tied in knots, and the like: It's a well-established law of the Tooniverse that only the Smart-Assed-Good-Guy-Toons(tm) such as Bugs, Road Runner, Tweety, or that boxing kangaroo, can do that sort of thing. Donald clearly does not fall into that category. No, Donald, like Daffy, falls into the Let's-Mutilate-The-Annoying-And-Short-Tempered- Toon-For-Comic-Effect(tm). Disney is too damned cutesy to even understand the concept of smart-assedness. Once again, no contest.

This battle can only be judged by the standards that Daffy and Donald have faced in their own universes. Both Daffy and Donald have played second fiddle to a more popular icon. For Daffy, it's Bugs. For Donald, it's Mickey. Mickey talks like a eunuch and is completely p***y-whipped by his wimpy girlfriend Minnie. Bugs is a bachelor, and like most rabbits a stud. Mickey loves family values and wears red shorts. Bugs wears no clothes, except when he's cross-dressing (Silence of the Lambs, anyone?). Mickey gives Minnie flowers as she giggles. Bugs lustily kisses Elmer Fudd despite his protests. Clearly, Mickey is suburban white-bread and Bugs is a dangerously violent h***********l with nothing to lose. By using Bugs and Mickey as the respective benchmarks of toughness in the Warner and Disney empires, it's easy to see where their runner-ups fall: the irascible Daffy must be much tougher than the perturbable Donald to have survived this long against Bugs. Victory goes to Daffy.
(Expletives Deleted)

Kirby

05-31-2003, 11:34 PM

I am not against anyone. I am aware this is a family board.I just want to know if anyone likes the Disney Characters enough to stick up for them

SNS

05-31-2003, 11:42 PM

Can you rewrite those so that it doesn't stretch the screen so much? It's kind of annoying.

Scythemantis

06-01-2003, 12:50 AM

Ok, as said above, Treasure Planet is SUPPOSED TO BE Treasure Island. Calling it a ripoff of it is positively idiotic.

It was also a good movie.

And the way this thread is stretched is extremely obnoxious.

TimTwoFace

06-01-2003, 01:20 AM

Can you rewrite those so that it doesn't stretch the screen so much? It's kind of annoying.

Yeah, tell me about it. It took me five minutes just to find the dang "reply" button on the right hand side. :p

Interesting comic, though. Mickey does have quite the mean streak when you stroke him the wrong way, doesn't he?

-Tim

DarthNuriko

06-01-2003, 08:22 AM

Yeah, how come the quotes didn't just wrap? '__'

JusticeLeagueLegion

06-02-2003, 01:43 PM

I never understand why people say they are making sequels because they can't think of something new and original, it's like people are ignoring the fact that Disney still makes their main movies every year (you know, the ones that count on the list).

It's not a rip-off of Treasure Island, it's intentionally a space version of Treasure Island. And I have no idea how you considered it a Star Wars rip-off.

Well duh, it's a space version of Treasure Island.

Actually, it's based on a theory people had before space travel was possible.

Yeah, it was worth seeing.

Actually he wasn't the first character Disney made, he was the first character Disney made that was truly succesful. Before that there was the Oswald shorts, before that there was the Alice shorts, & before that there was Laugh-O-Grams (the first being Little Red Riding Hood).

What I'm saying is: Instead of wasting all this money on sequals that aren't that good anyway, they could be making something new and original. And weather Treasure Planet's atmosphere in space was based on the theory that humans had back then isn't the point, it's still stupid...I did find it exciting, but I thought that was rediculous. As for the Star Wars thing...it just reminds me of Star Wars...battles in space...the aliens look a lot more like aliens on Star Wars than any other sci-fi thingy. Oh, and I understand that it is a sci-fi version of Treasure Island (and you said that twice) but did they really have to use the same names? By the way...you're right, I forgot about the Oswald rabbit or whatever his name was.

Leaping Larry Jojo

06-03-2003, 12:40 AM

Why do I have to scroll horizontally to read this thread?

Anyway, for some examples of old-time Mickey, all one has to do is buy the Mickey Mouse Black and White classics DVD.

JusticeLeagueLegion

06-03-2003, 05:31 PM

Why do I have to scroll horizontally to read this thread?
That's what I'd like to know.

SNS

06-03-2003, 06:02 PM

I think it's the comic, that makes the text like this. It should be edited so it's a link instead of a picture, then maybe the text will be back to normal.

Zechs

06-04-2003, 01:24 PM

Mickey is suposed to be a kids toon where as from what I've heard bugs and his gang are suppposed to be for an older set. My point is that mickey can't be nasty and rude if the dosen't want to piss of the parents of the kiddies he's trying to amuse. Bugs and his gang on the other hand can afford to be rude and nasty because they are geared at an older set.

Nin-Nin69

06-04-2003, 03:39 PM

Um......can an admin please fix this so we don't have to scroll all the way down the forum. Its very annoying.

Anywho Mickey is more of a peaceful nature cartoon character, but in order for him to be the hero and save the day, he would have to get his hands a little dirty every now and then.

Nightflower

06-04-2003, 04:25 PM

Not a WBC mod, but done out of sheer irritation of scrolling to read. You can thank me later ;)

Polychrome

07-07-2003, 05:50 PM

Boy Wonder

07-08-2003, 11:56 AM

I hate how Micky is supposed to the best character in the world, but Bugs eclipsed him in WWII.

JusticeLeagueLegion

07-08-2003, 11:58 AM

Bugs Bunny did a whole lot worse than that! For years Bugs Bunny has always been dominant over Mickey, he's cooler...way cooler...I guess you can say he's...well...better!

Inkan1969

07-08-2003, 03:39 PM

Kirby, those grudge match websites have been around for years, and websites like those are built to attract flamers. What's the point of posting those website comments, other than as flamebait?

Looneytunes

07-08-2003, 05:27 PM

Wow, this is just like comparing the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. You would usually get evil outdoing good in duels such as this. I have a lot of things to say:

1. John K. Who here likes Ren and Stimpy? I don't! It is gross, violent, bad to the bone, etc. Yes, it is not cowardly, but it can be nicer. It won't hurt.

2. I disregard what people say on the "Mickey vs. Bugs" and "Donald vs. Daffy" duels. They don't know Mickey and Donald that well enough to even have an opinion, and/or even Bugs and Daffy to have their said views on them.

Mickey: So, is he is goody-goody, virtually personality-free, and maybe he's more wimpy. But, at least he is courageous, intelligent, and helpful. Why not like him? He has never started a fight, not at least provoked one. He is more helpful than Goofy and Donald, probably the most helpful cartoon character among the major Disney stars. He doesn't like to kill.

Donald: Meaner than Mickey, not as violent as Daffy. But, if anyone sees his later works and Daffy's. Who can't conflict?

Bugs: Okay, he's more firm, not as wimpy, but he's much more dodgy, cynical and sarcastic, violent, and wisecracking. He's witty. Ok. But, so is Mickey. Bugs is more likely to start a fight, than rather be in it. He's vain, cocky, boastful, (starting to sound like Donald, doesn't it?), a heckler, --- irreverent. But, could he be more successful with Lola, then how Mickey could be with Minnie? I don't think so. Mickey is much more romantic and more considerate to his needs.

Daffy: Meaner than Bugs, worse than Donald. He's crazy, he's psychotic. He can't even stand a chance with having Melissa! (cf. Donald and Daisy) Ok, he's also been in a boxing fight, like Bugs, and he's also a heckler, cynical and sarcastic, violent, wisecracking, etc. But, he's very mean.

But, didn't Bugs like Mickey in WFRR and Donald and Daffy "actually" get along (despite their joking epic?)? Would Bugs and Daffy have even be created if it was not for Mickey and Donald?

Don't get me wrong, I like all of them. But, I find Bugs and Daffy to not exactly have a "Heaven" side and have more of a "Hell" side.

From the people I ask, say they like Bugs more than Mickey and Donald more than Daffy. I can't understand why if Daffy is meaner.

But, this is what I think. I may be leaving lot of things out. But, what the hey. I can also add new messages.

Looneytunes

Inkan1969

07-08-2003, 05:45 PM

These garbage comments that Kirby put up read like they were written by loser kids who pick Warner kids just because they think they'll be cooler with that choice. They're like the "with it" kids in High School that we all hated enough to want to kill. The posts read like bady written crossover fanfics. I really hope that Kirby doesn't think these websites are cool.

Kirby

07-08-2003, 08:50 PM

Looneytunes

07-08-2003, 08:58 PM

[QUOTE]These garbage comments that Kirby put up read like they were written by loser kids who pick Warner kids just because they think they'll be cooler with that choice. They're like the "with it" kids in High School that we all hated enough to want to kill. The posts read like bady written crossover fanfics. I really hope that Kirby doesn't think these websites are cool.

I Don't. I (stupidly) thought that Mickey and Friends were too sugar-coated and Barney-ish to attract truly loyal fans in the case of such an acromony. About 75% percent of the toon fans i associate with Hold Bugs and Daffy at an infinitly higher esteem than Mickey and Donald.
If you thought the Mickey vs. Bugs deathmatch was bad, you should've seen the Peanuts vs. South Park. Charlie Brown, Snoopy and their friends give a whole new meaning to the term sugar-coated. Peanuts had actually less followers than Mickey. Anyway, I think both of those fights would be more straightfoward than a Mario vs. Sonic deathmatch, where the two characters have more or less the same capabilities. In the former case, Mickey and Peanuts lose. Bugs and Daffy were obviously bribed to do the Roger Rabbit scenes, (the whole WB characters in a Disney movie idea seems fishy ). Anyway, I underestimated how many Mickey Fans there are

Kirby, you're the man.

Come on, everybody, let's just stay that ALL: Mickey, Donald, Bugs, and Daffy are all cool. Not in any particular order. Mickey is the coolest nice character, Daffy is the coolest mean character, and Bugs and Donald are the coolest that of being in the between of being an equal nice and mean persona. Bugs may be meaner than Daffy, I don't know, but I think Daffy is much more meaner. I mean, Bugs has more friends than Daffy, around the same amount of rivals, but I digress. All in all, they're ALL cool. They all have advantages, and they all have disadvantages. But, no one is perfect. Not any one of this world anyway.

Kirby

07-08-2003, 08:59 PM

[QUOTE] But, didn't Bugs like Mickey in WFRR and Donald and Daffy "actually" get along (despite their joking epic?)? Would Bugs and Daffy have even be created if it was not for Mickey and Donald?

Yes. Tex Avery, Chuck Jones, Friz Freling and Bob Clampett would have still existed. Bugs is 100% original and so is Daffy,. Mel Blanc's Brooklynite accent is so superior to Walt Disney's helium squeak, and he ain't bad as the daffy one, either. I'm surprised that International and antique Mickey cartoons portray him as a boyish adventurer instead of Felix the Cat with Round ears and a glazed over smile

Wanted

07-08-2003, 10:23 PM

Face it, Mick's a softy. Bugs is a meanie. Bugs is better than that squeaky-voiced mouse, even though the mouse did start a revolution in animation. I hear from someone that anime is based upon Walt's creations. The big eyes, Mickey. The ..............., Mickey. The ........., Mickey.

Just a little-known fact.

Looneytunes

07-09-2003, 01:55 AM

JusticeLeagueLegion

07-09-2003, 10:53 AM

So, Mickey's soft. Big deal. And Bugs is mean. Is being mean that great? Not to LOTS of people, at least not to TRUE people. If someone's mean, then they will probably get what's coming to them. Walt Disney can't help his voice, and if Mickey, Donald, and the gang talk that way, they talk that way. I have no problem with it.

So, Bugs and Daffy don't talk like Mickey and Donald, and talk better. Ok? Who cares?!? The way people talk are NOT IMPORTANT. But, Mickey and Donald are a heck more funnier than Bugs and Daffy will ever be, plus they have less rivals and lots more friends. That's a bonus. Plus, Mickey and Donald have girlfriends. Ok. Bugs and Daffy have Lola and Melissa. With sarcasm: whoopee! They should have had Lola and Melissa from the beginning! Plus, as we seen in the MM & LT shorts Bugs and Daffy can't get anything from girls, and they can't even fit in with the guys, except that all of them are basically a bunch of homicial, sarcastic cynic, violent jerks. Except, Porky. You see. Porky's cool. Porky knows how to deal with things, and not KILL people. Except, he's a hunter, but that's different. I hate killing as much as the next guy, but I also don't like very mean people

I think you have to keep straight with your just little known facts.

Oh, well. Just a thought.

Looneytunes (Disneytoons)

P.S. "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" was no coincidence. Many people who really like the film will automatically disagree with you.

Anyway, rip Walt Disney and Mel Blanc. We all miss you guys.

In my opinion, Donald Duck is waaaaaay cooler than Mickey Mouse is!...and how can you possibly think that Mickey Mouse is funnier than Bugs Bunny?! And what are you talking about...KILLING PEOPLE!? They don't kill people...and Porky Pig...yeah...he's all right...not as cool as Bugs Bunny but way cooler than Mickey Mouse. Oh, and as for Disney's voice...DO YOU THINK HE REALLY SOUNDS LIKE THAT?! Pal, he makes it sound like that...the annoying laugh and everything else...but actually, back when Disney used to talk for him he was more of an interesting character...now, on those newer Disney cartoons, especially "House Of Mouse" and shows like that, he's pathetic. And another thing, how could you think that Mickey Mouse is so much more funny than the Looney Tunes...I just don't get that...I see Mickey Mouse as a bland character with no personality, and Bugs Bunny...well...he's cool, hip, funny, he's a billy bad you know what at times. With Daffy he's about the same, except he's more mean.

Daniel P

07-09-2003, 11:16 AM

This one has gotta go to the Loony Tunes. Look at the level of violence in any given Bugs Bunny cartoon and compare it to the nastiest Disney bit."How To Be A Detective" (Disney, 1952) is more violent than any Warner Brothers cartoon I have seen. So it's not Mickey, it's Goofy. But still, this is a DISNEY cartoon. The opening scene starts with a man jumping off a bridge and dying. Awesome, violent stuff.

The mouse and his little crew of cartoon comrades don't stand a chance! Disney cartoons are too lame and "pc" to use any type of violence. Maybe modern Disney cartoons, but I dare you to watch a regular Donald or Goofy classic toon and tell me that there is absolutely no violence in it. How about "Teachers Are People" (Disney, 1952) where this kid tries to bomb a school where Goofy is teaching?

Nightflower

07-09-2003, 12:15 PM

Kirby, those grudge match websites have been around for years, and websites like those are built to attract flamers. What's the point of posting those website comments, other than as flamebait?
Well, considering he says stuff like "I just want to know if anyone likes the Disney Characters enough to stick up for them", I guess he is an admitted troll.

"Bugs and Daffy were obviously bribed to do the Roger Rabbit scenes".....Hmmm....okay....*takes a deep breath* You do realize they are cartoons, eh? There's nothing wrong with liking the WB characters over the Disney ones, but try not to let your hatred make you sound stupid! It doesn't help anyone!

I don't really see the point of this topic except to bash Disney. Bugs Bunny beat Mickey Mouse in a fight. There we go, moving on. It doesn't mean that he still doesn't have merits, or that people don't like him.

Kirby

07-09-2003, 05:12 PM

"How To Be A Detective" (Disney, 1952) is more violent than any Warner Brothers cartoon I have seen. So it's not Mickey, it's Goofy. But still, this is a DISNEY cartoon. The opening scene starts with a man jumping off a bridge and dying. Awesome, violent stuff.

Maybe modern Disney cartoons, but I dare you to watch a regular Donald or Goofy classic toon and tell me that there is absolutely no violence in it. How about "Teachers Are People" (Disney, 1952) where this kid tries to bomb a school where Goofy is teaching?

A couples of gems in a bag of sugar.

Looneytunes

07-09-2003, 07:02 PM

In my opinion, Donald Duck is waaaaaay cooler than Mickey Mouse is!...and how can you possibly think that Mickey Mouse is funnier than Bugs Bunny?! And what are you talking about...KILLING PEOPLE!? They don't kill people...and Porky Pig...yeah...he's all right...not as cool as Bugs Bunny but way cooler than Mickey Mouse. Oh, and as for Disney's voice...DO YOU THINK HE REALLY SOUNDS LIKE THAT?! Pal, he makes it sound like that...the annoying laugh and everything else...but actually, back when Disney used to talk for him he was more of an interesting character...now, on those newer Disney cartoons, especially "House Of Mouse" and shows like that, he's pathetic. And another thing, how could you think that Mickey Mouse is so much more funny than the Looney Tunes...I just don't get that...I see Mickey Mouse as a bland character with no personality, and Bugs Bunny...well...he's cool, hip, funny, he's a billy bad you know what at times. With Daffy he's about the same, except he's more mean.

What so all Donald, Bugs, and Daffy surpass Mickey? I don't get that. Donald is NOT as cool as Mickey. More people like Mickey more than him. He can't even do anything right. Plus, he has all of those tantrums and is so hyperactive. Plus, he can't get anything from Daisy. But, Mickey can ge t a lot from Minnie. Mickey is not as jerky. Ok, so he's very nice. But, that's a strong advantage. Not being wimpy and not as firm, but he's still very nice. Bugs is not very nice. Bugs does not have that much luck with girls. Bugs like to hurt people. He's not helpful. He only wants to be alone, and he's only sarcastially funny.

Being mean IS NOT cool! Ok. So, it gets more peoples' attentions. But, for only the wrong reasons. It gets no one with true friendships and increases much more rivalry with other people.

Mickey is funnier than Bugs. Donald is funnier than Daffy. What makes YOU think Bugs and Daffy are funnier than Mickey and Donald? I want to know.

Maybe I see Mickey, Donald, Bugs, and Daffy in a different way than the rest of you. Still, I think Mickey's a very cool dude. I actually feel sorry for those who rarely like him. He has many cool aspects.

Looneytunes (from now I want to be called Disneytoons)

P.S. Maybe if someone is so much like a cartoon character, then they will get easily offended. That's all I'm saying.

Kirby

07-09-2003, 07:42 PM

What so all Donald, Bugs, and Daffy surpass Mickey? I don't get that. Donald is NOT as cool as Mickey. More people like Mickey more than him. He can't even do anything right. Plus, he has all of those tantrums and is so hyperactive. Plus, he can't get anything from Daisy. But, Mickey can ge t a lot from Minnie. Mickey is not as jerky. Ok, so he's very nice. But, that's a strong advantage. Not being wimpy and not as firm, but he's still very nice. Bugs is not very nice. Bugs does not have that much luck with girls. Bugs like to hurt people. He's not helpful. He only wants to be alone, and he's only sarcastially funny.

Being mean IS NOT cool! Ok. So, it gets more peoples' attentions. But, for only the wrong reasons. It gets no one with true friendships and increases much more rivalry with other people.

Mickey is funnier than Bugs. Donald is funnier than Daffy. What makes YOU think Bugs and Daffy are funnier than Mickey and Donald? I want to know.

classic Maybe I see Mickey, Donald, Bugs, and Daffy in a different way than the rest of you. Still, I think Mickey's a very cool dude. I actually feel sorry for those who rarely like him. He has many cool aspects.

Looneytunes (from now I want to be called Disneytoons)

P.S. Maybe if someone is so much like a cartoon character, then they will get easily offended. That's all I'm saying.

Um, Disneytoons, Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck have to have more experience and seniority in a battle than Mickey and Donald. Sure, classic Mickey is pretty spry, But classic Bugs (Spefically Tex Avery's version of Him) could easily step all over him. As i learned from "A Wild Hare" and "All this and Rabbit Stew" Bugs doesn't need to do much to get the upper hand.

Looneytunes

07-09-2003, 07:57 PM

Um, Disneytoons, Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck have to have more experience and seniority in a battle than Mickey and Donald. Sure, classic Mickey is pretty spry, But classic Bugs (Spefically Tex Avery's version of Him) could easily step all over him. As i learned from "A Wild Hare" and "All this and Rabbit Stew" Bugs doesn't need to do much to get the upper hand.

I still think Mickey's a great character and deserves his role. So, are Bugs, Donald, and Daffy. But, Mickey is still a good character. It's weird to me that you like Bugs, Daffy, and Donald. But, you don't like Mickey. Is Mickey the only character among the Disney and WB fans that is not given too much attention as he should? If so, then you guys have a lot to learn.

Jack

07-09-2003, 09:32 PM

A couples of gems in a bag of sugar.
I'd say the whole Goofy series is pretty violent, save for maybe the first two or three. Goofy crashed thought walls, battered other Goofy's with sticks, etc, on a regular basis. The Donald series was also rather violent (and Donald was rather sadistic, moreso than Daffy since Daffy doesn't know what he's doing half the time anyway). I don't think Disney's cartoons are as goody-goody as most people think. I think this misconception comes from people not being exposed to them in the same way they are exposed to WB cartoons.

Also, contrary to what Disneytoons said, Bugs is helpful. In Super Rabbit, he uses his powers to save the persecuted rabbits in Texas, in Easter Yeggs he helps the Easter Bunny, and in 8 Ball Bunny and Frigid Hare he helps Playboy Penguin, just to name a few examples.

Anyway, I like Disney's cartoons, even Mickey. So what if he was nice? The Brave Tailor, The Band Concert, Clock Cleaners, Through the Mirror, and Steamboat Willie are all really good cartoons.

Jack :bosko:

Looneytunes

07-10-2003, 01:39 PM

I'd say the whole Goofy series is pretty violent, save for maybe the first two or three. Goofy crashed thought walls, battered other Goofy's with sticks, etc, on a regular basis. The Donald series was also rather violent (and Donald was rather sadistic, moreso than Daffy since Daffy doesn't know what he's doing half the time anyway). I don't think Disney's cartoons are as goody-goody as most people think. I think this misconception comes from people not being exposed to them in the same way they are exposed to WB cartoons.

Also, contrary to what Disneytoons said, Bugs is helpful. In Super Rabbit, he uses his powers to save the persecuted rabbits in Texas, in Easter Yeggs he helps the Easter Bunny, and in 8 Ball Bunny and Frigid Hare he helps Playboy Penguin, just to name a few examples.

Anyway, I like Disney's cartoons, even Mickey. So what if he was nice? The Brave Tailor, The Band Concert, Clock Cleaners, Through the Mirror, and Steamboat Willie are all really good cartoons.

Jack :bosko:

I don't think people don't like Mickey, because he's nice. Even though, they say that. They don't like Mickey (if they say they don't), however, because he's not as firm as his fellow stars, and is more wimpy.

People probably like Donald more, because he has more of a positive attidude about himself and he is more changeable.

People probably like Bugs, because he's really firm and not wimpy.

People probably like Daffy due to being more firm than Donald and not as wimpy (I could be wrong about the latter, but I don't think so). Probably the reason why Daffy is probably liked might be the same reason why Donald is also probably liked.

So, I don't think it is the "mean" personalities that entertain people: the cynicism and sarcasm, the violence, the jerkiness, and maybe even being sarcastically funny. I think it refers to not being wimpy, being more firm, and just not being a dull character.

Looneytunes Disneytoons

P.S. Donald and Daffy and Mickey and Bugs had no problem being together in WFRR. I don't think of it as a bribe, but more of something that just had to happen. It was going to happen sooner or later.

Daniel P

07-10-2003, 03:51 PM

A couples of gems in a bag of sugar.Not really, most of the Goofy and Donald cartoons are pretty violent. Especially the 1950's ones. I don't know why people always think Disney means nice, and no comedy or violence or slapstick. And besides, what's wrong with nice cartoons anyway? The Mickey cartoons are fun to watch anyway, they are enjoyable cartoons.

Tom Reed

07-11-2003, 12:08 PM

I'll grant that the animated Mickey looks wimpy compared to the animated Bugs. HOWEVER....

...how many of you people ever read the characters in comic books?

Mickey's stories often had very complex and interesting plots. He had a long-running villain named the Phantom Blot. He even occasionally had a good working relationship with Donald Duck. (It shocked me as a kid to hear Mickey say to the duck "You know, Don...") He had to play detective and do some actual thinking. (Admittedly, much of this was stolen from Carl Barks's great duck stories, but Mickey also pulled this off well.)

On the other hand, Bugs Bunny's comics were lame, gag-oriented stories. Bugs never went on any great adventures. He inhabited the same kind of toon suburb that Mickey and Donald inhabited in their newspaper strips. The great "moral anarchist" of the cartoon screen, a rabbit who would create havoc for a good cause, was resigned to gags about mowing lawns and running barbecues. It was as tragic as watching Groucho Marx reduced to tired jokes for Midwestern bumpkins on his "You Bet Your Life" quiz show.

Bottom line: Mickey should be more like his comics in his film work, and Bugs should be more like his cartoons in his print appearances. (Although he did comport himself fairly well when Mark Evanier wrote a mini-series where the Looney Tunes met the Justice League.)

Kirby

07-11-2003, 10:31 PM

To 75% of the internet, Disney is nothing but a sugar-coated, Barney-ish bullseye for Special Interest groups, too wussy and politically correct to make a single violent or funny cartoon or Movie. And that's what people think of it. Disney's work is so bad and confined to children,
Adults can't even watch Disney films. They even banned Song of the South. On the Other Hand, Several of Warner's luminaries have been challenged by Sigs to no avail. Warner's Fans and follwers laughed at, disparaged and insulted many of the Sig's attempts to PC and family friendly-ize Bosko's references to 1920's minstrels, Porky Pig's stuttering, Daffy Duck's lisp, Bugs Bunny's racism and, of course, the more recent Oblongs "unflattering portrayal of disabled people". Consequently, while i haven't heard a single insult directed towards Chuck Jones, Tex Avery, Friz Freleng, or Bob Clampett (Everyone had nice things to say about them), Walt Disney's been called "anti-semite", "facsist", "homophobe","union-buster" and everything in between (I'm not making this up). While Mickey is not used much,
just enough to keep him from ending up like the Terrytoons, Gerald McBoing-Boing, and Mr. Magoo, Bugs gets plenty of exposure and new material. :sweat:

Daniel P

07-11-2003, 10:36 PM

Kirby

07-11-2003, 10:42 PM

I just think that this general feel of disrespect against Disney is totally uncalled for. Is there anything wrong with "nice" cartoons?

Walt Disney had a great thing going, some of the funniest cartoons ever made. It's not HIS fault that his company today is horrible.

I know. L LOVE Disney, but too many other poeple dont.

BTW, Dacp3, are you the dacp3 from Muppet Central. i USED to be a member there, but i quit because it didn't tie in well with here and Gamefaqs. I do plan on rebecoming one, though.

Nightflower

07-12-2003, 09:25 AM

I know. L LOVE Disney, but too many other poeple dont.

Um...are you sure? :rolleyes:

Daniel P

07-12-2003, 12:03 PM

BTW, Dacp3, are you the dacp3 from Muppet Central.Wow, I'm surprised anyone recognized me. I had about 15 posts there. I don't go there anymore, ToonZone consumes most of my Internet time. :D

rodney

07-12-2003, 02:03 PM

I agree with Tom Reed. I'm not a huge fan of the Mickey shorts (a bit too slow for me) but the Mickey in the comics is a fantastic character. Gottfredson took a two dimensional character, and gave him a *real* personality.

Prism

07-12-2003, 04:10 PM

Comparing Disney and Warner is like comparing apples and oranges. Both different but equally good. A lot of the anti-Disney sentiment is because of their domination of the 90's animated movies or so it seems to me.

Drachentöter

07-12-2003, 05:21 PM

Yeah, I don't think using Mickey in an "ass-whooping" contest is fair at all. Mickey doesn't kick ass, it's out of character. He's still a great character, and making him more violent would not make him "cooler."

I think the Disney shorts are great gateway toons for children. Parents don't have to worry about the supposed bad influence of cartoon violence and they still supply interesting plots and good-looking animation. Mickey = security, which we all need at one point. It also makes for a more magical environment.

After all, where would you rather go. Disneyland or Six Flags? :rolleyes:

Inkan1969

07-12-2003, 07:47 PM

To 75% of the internet, Disney is nothing but a sugar-coated, Barney-ish bullseye for Special Interest groups, too wussy and politically correct to make a single violent or funny cartoon or Movie.

That % is ridiculous. It's stupid to believe that. All that you've proven is that you're nothing but a big jerk. You don't give a darn about what other people think. In this idiotic posting you wrote you just through a bunch of half-truths together. You seem to be completely ignorant about the fact that Disney fans have often complained to the company of any PC change it makes, that AOL-Time-Warner has also gone and head and made all those PC changes regardless of what the fans have said, that some people slam Chuck Jones all the time, and that a noticible number of people on the net thinks that the most recent work of Bugs ( "Space Jam", cameos on "Tiny Toons" ) has been crap. All you've done is act like an ---hole. I think the moderator might want to consider banning you from the board.

Kirby

07-12-2003, 07:58 PM

That % is ridiculous. It's stupid to believe that. All that you've proven is that you're nothing but a big jerk. You don't give a darn about what other people think. In this idiotic posting you wrote you just through a bunch of half-truths together. You seem to be completely ignorant about the fact that Disney fans have often complained to the company of any PC change it makes, that AOL-Time-Warner has also gone and head and made all those PC changes regardless of what the fans have said, that some people slam Chuck Jones all the time, and that a noticible number of people on the net thinks that the most recent work of Bugs ( "Space Jam", cameos on "Tiny Toons" ) has been crap. All you've done is act like an ---hole. I think the moderator might want to consider banning you from the board.

I haven't been completly ignorant of that. You took this board way too personally. I'm not a big jerk. I'm trying to tell the truth. In fact, I killed off this thread a while ago, and i've completly ignored it until it reappeared the other day. I wish a moderator would lock this topic because it's gotten too out of control and i wasn't openly proud of it to begin with. :elle:. I guess i should've posted this at Termite Terrace. :confused: Anyway, This is the last you'll hear of Me on this Topic.

Inkan1969

07-12-2003, 08:17 PM

I haven't been completly ignorant of that. You took this board way too personally. I'm not a big jerk. I'm trying to tell the truth. In fact, I killed off this thread a while ago, and i've completly ignored it until it reappeared the other day. I wish a moderator would lock this topic because it's gotten too out of control and i wasn't openly proud of it to begin with. :elle:. I guess i should've posted this at Termite Terrace. :confused: Anyway, This is the last you'll hear of Me on this Topic.

You're the guy who went on about how fun being a jackass it. Yes, you were a big jerk. And all this "truth" you're trying to tell is as true as "The world is flat". There's plenty of fan interest in Disney in other parts of the internet. But this board started out as an "Animaniacs" fan board and so very little of the Disney fandom would come here, and the subject was off-topic. And you were completely wrong about AOL-Time-Warner's reaction to PC groups. They HAVE banned Speedy Gonzalez, the "Censored 11" old cartoons, wartime toons, and whatnot. Bugs is still not PC? Go watch "Baby Looney Tunes". As for Termite Terrace, I have to say that I greatly admire the people who post there. Some of the most thoughtful people on the net. Many there have a very positive impressive of the old Disney shorts; there were threads about "The Ink and Paint Club" when that show was on the air. And some people there hate most modern WB cartoons; I know one guy who insists that Bugs Bunny died in the 1960's and the Bugs we see in current stuff is a bastardized clone ( His opinion, which we don't have to agree with. )

But, if the moderator wants to lock the topic, yes I'll agree to that. Kirby, at the least I promise to stop posting in this topic if you promise to stop posting in it as well.

Jack

07-12-2003, 11:31 PM

On the other hand, Bugs Bunny's comics were lame, gag-oriented stories. Bugs never went on any great adventures. He inhabited the same kind of toon suburb that Mickey and Donald inhabited in their newspaper strips. The great "moral anarchist" of the cartoon screen, a rabbit who would create havoc for a good cause, was resigned to gags about mowing lawns and running barbecues. It was as tragic as watching Groucho Marx reduced to tired jokes for Midwestern bumpkins on his "You Bet Your Life" quiz show.
Some of the special four-color Bugs Bunny comics from the 40's sort of imply that they feature grand adventure stories, but I haven't been able to find any of them save for one (Bugs Bunny and the Great Circus Mystery). While some of the Bugs stories were common, I've also seen a lot of good stories where Bugs goes up againt evil genies, mechanical men, bank robbers, pirates, and other things, so I wouldn't say they were all bad. The Daffy Duck stories from 1952-1956 are still my favorite LT comics, and the Mary Jane and Sniffles stories were much more adventurous I suppose.

Mickey's comics sound like they're really something. I might look into them now.

Jack :bosko:

Dee

07-12-2003, 11:38 PM

Okay, guys.... Please keep this on topic.

Do NOT flamebait, insult anyone's choice of what they like or dislike, and do not take it too far off topic. This isnt a "lets bash stuff" thread. We're getting some interesting points being made about shorts and comics and a comparison going on and I'd like to see it continue.

But... if it continues to spiral downhill, I will close it and issue warnings as needed.

This is a place to have fun, not drive each other nuts.

Thanks
-Delia97

Looneytunes

07-13-2003, 03:48 AM

Come on, people. Delia97 is right about this. Let's not insult each other, let's just keep on the topic without putting each other down. There are lots of interesting stuff here. There's no need for this.

As much as I know. Mickey, Donald, Bugs, and Daffy all have their advantages and disadvantages. They're completey different, but they are all equally as good (inventive).

1. Mickey is a very nice character, but he's not too strong. Still, he know what he's doing and he's really helpful. He's not violent, and doesn't like to start a fight, but at the same time he doesn't backdown from one either.

2. Donald is not as nice as Mickey, but more firm. I won't say he knows what he's doing, but he's also helpful. Still, he has a realistic personality. Donald is not that violent, but he sometimes like to create havoc for others, he may or may not backdown from a fight, but he may or may not learn something from it either.

3. This is where it get interesting ... Bugs. Bugs is a nice/mean character like Donald. He's not as nice as Mickey and not as mean as Daffy, but he's pretty streetwise and really firm. Bugs likes to fight and is violent, but doesn't backdown from a fight, yet he learns nothing from it.

4. Daffy: very mean. More firm than Donald (firm = cf. wimpy). But, like Donald, he has his unlucky incidents. But, he does not have a realistic personality. He's not as helpful as Donald, though. Daffy is violent and likes to fight, doesn't learn how to deal with fights, but doesn't backdown from one.

But, all in all: all of the characters are of equal value. And, I like all of them. There's one group of people who like Bugs and Donald better, and another who like Mickey and Daffy better, or possibly an amount who like Bugs and Daffy more than Mickey and Donald or vice versa. But, I like all of them, and I think all of them are important.

Looneytunes / Disneytoons

P.S. There is actually a more oriented place that is of the Warner Brothers company, ala the Disney theme parks: WB Movie World. But, Six Flags will also fit in good.

JohnDMoore

07-13-2003, 05:15 AM

I think one of the key things with Disney is that it's domestic. Whereas Warner's toons take the most extreme characteristics of human behaviour to an unbelievable extent, Disney's characters are a lot more relatable. Which is why Donald ends up being just another soldier. Goofy becomes a suburban father in the '50s.
Also, Mickey isn't the strongest character. He's great alright, but he needs a stronger supporting cast. Which is why, shortly after color was introduced, the majority of the Mickey shorts teamed him up with Donald and Goofy.

CourageEditor

07-13-2003, 11:09 PM

Mickey mouse is alright, but he lacks being real. He is so unbearably polite and perky that its hard to swallow. Its sort of like eating to many sweet candies and geting an upset stomach. Bosko :bosko: is my old-time favorite cartoon. Sure he can be cute at times but he doesn't make a day job out of it, at least he got mad a couple of times. Maybe its because Mickey was geared mostly toward children, but on a second thought I don't know if thats entirely true either. Winnie the pooh is geared towards adults of the cult classic almost just as much or more than children. Thats Disney's way of being such of a pioneer and being able to hold on for so long. I think if the theme parks were never built, Mickey wouldn't of existed today. He still appears in the House of Mouse and other direct to video productions, but a problem might lerk around the corner for Mickey Mouse (or at least I think). How much longer can a direct-to-video and park mascot pioneer live under warner brothers and other computer animated films. Looney Tunes are almost as old but are more distributed and are mostly picked over Mickey Mouse. Most six to ten years old probably consider him a bore because he doesn't contain today's elements of a kid's favorite cartoon: action,stupidness,more believable villians/situations and numerous other things.Disney is also playing there part in the decreasing appearances of Mickey Mouse and friends. I'm not against him I just think he'll need a transformation to remain in the public eye and be liked by new and upcoming gennerations. He's been changed numerous times, but you'll never be able to make Mickey Mouse with qualities of a Spongebob Squarepants. :(

shadejford

07-25-2003, 01:05 AM

This thread inspired me to start a new thread called "The Power and Pain of the Mouse." I recommend this thread to all of you for I think you'll find my comments interesting. // Mickey's best films were made from l928 to l937. I've always liked the Mickey from this period for I see this Mickey as a direct precursor to Bugs Bunny. After 1937. Mickey became increasingly bland. But around l940, he had a brief revival--he appeared in Disney's most imaginative and creative feature--FANTASIA. Also, he acquired a good director for his shorts at that time--Riley Thompson. Check out Riley's THE LITTLE WHIRLWIND. In this film, Mickey is snappy, brash and adventurous and Minnie is feisty and no-nonsense. Unfortunately, Riley's Mickey was not part of the studio's long-range plans. So, the Mickey shorts were discontinued during World War II and when they were continued after l946, Mickey was throughly domesticated. Indeed, in some shorts he became a victim. Check out MICKEY & THE SEAL.He's outsmarted by a seal! And I remember another postwar cartoon in which a mere gopher messes up his golf game! Ever notice how even our most resourceful cartoon icons--Popeye, Woody Woodpecker and even Bugs Bunny-- have trouble with small rodents? Maybe that gopher was the" black sheep" in Mickey's family. Maybehe was jealous of Mickey's success(smile).