B:TAS "Mudslide" Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

In an effort to get talkbacks for every Batman: The Animated Series episode, The Penguin and I will be putting up B:TAS talkbacks throughout the summer. This will help fill the gaps and present a complete collection and archive of all animated Batman episode discussions. Talkbacks for scheduled episodes will stay remain intact. Now, can Clayface pull himself together in "Mudslide?"


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/mudslide/00r.jpg
Episode #052 - Mudslide
Original Airdate - September 15th, 1993.

Clayface is falling apart - literally. His clay like body is virtually disintegrating. Fortunately, a woman scientist he knew from his movie star days is working on a remedy. However, Hagen is forced to steal money to pay for the expensive components of the remedy.

Comments?

[Stu]

I thought this episode was OK overall. But as previously said in a few other threads there was little reason for Batman to pull the plug on Clayfaces operation. He offered to help him, and being that the isotope was from the Wayne Foundation so did it really matter that it was stolen? This really should have been the end of Clayface though.

[TimTwoFace]

I thought this episode was perfect - it started out gloomy, and as the episode kept advancing, the storyline was spiralling downward into a pit of despair and depression - and that's what I love about this episode.

Sure, there's the debate on Batman pulling the plug on Clayface's operation, but he had every right to do so; he would still live without it (until Batman or Bruce Wayne made it legal to do so) and Clayface was obviously breaking the law. It shows what extents Batman would go to in order to do what he feels is just. If you're commiting a crime, even if it IS a good reason, you will go down for it.

Besides, it's not like Batman is being ruthless here. Earlier on he was very compassionate in saying that he wished to help Clayface; he's done that with a lot of the villains he runs into, actually. He has a personal connection with each and every one.

-Tim

[Batman's Biggest Fan]

This episode was another example why Superman, Batman Beyond and Justice League while although being as good as they are, can never compare to Batman, every episode has at least some dramatic essence and this episode was another example.

[Mr. Freeze]

Wow, this thread is pretty dead. I hope this doesn't discourage Jim and Penguin from doing more talkback threads. I would love to see all the Batman episodes get caught up. I checked out the thread collection and there are so much missing!

I enjoyed this episode, even if Batman did seem a but cold hearted here. I wonder Batman couldn't just wait until the procedure was complete, and then apprehend him. Clayface was almost cured before Batman destroyed the equipment. I can understand him stopping it, though, since he's using stolen equipment and Batman offered to cure him. As much as I enjoyed this episode, I was always one the fence about it, becuase the tragic ending could've been avoided. Perhaps, that could've been the whole point, though.

[The Penguin]

Wow, this thread is pretty dead. I hope this doesn't discourage Jim and Penguin from doing more talkback threads. I would love to see all the Batman episodes get caught up. I checked out the thread collection and there are so much missing!Don't worry, we'll keep going. ;) I find myself at a loss in this thread because I haven't seen it for so long and I don't have this one on tape. :o

[Carrieattheprom]

DVD Reply!



Batman could have waited for Clayface to be cured before he arrested him. Wouldn't have taken THAT long. And besides, without his clay powers it would be a whole lot easier to kick Matt's butt without running the risk of killing him. Clayface should have stayed dead.

[Batman Fan]

I liked this episode a lot, a great sequel to Feat of Clay pt.2! I liked all the fight scenes, Batman's detective work, and the dramatic ending. Seriously though, if you're going to make a death scene that good, make it be the last time we see that character.

Clayface is a great villan and one of the more interesting ones, but wasn't in that many episodes. I think this should have been a TNBA episode so they could still have him on B:TAS and then use this episode as his dramatic end as well as the end of Batman animated.

Anyways, besides that, amazing episode, the animation was perfect and really depicted exactly how Clayface was falling apart, and the slime was hideous but worked well for his condition. Ron Perlman gives another stunning performance making Clayface a threatning, yet dramatic character. Let's just say, every character on Batman should've got some type of ending like this, a dramatic story that wraps up their character into a excellent 22 minutes.

*****

[TimTwoFace]

I liked this episode a lot, a great sequel to Feat of Clay pt.2 I liked all the fight scenes, Batman's detective work, and the dramatic ending. Seriously though, if you're going to make a death scene that good, make it be the last time we see that character.

Clayface is a great villan and one of the more interesting ones, but wasn't in that many episodes. I think this should have been a TNBA so they could still have him on B:TAS and then use this episode as his dramatic end as well as the end of Batman animated.
Initially, the writers meant for this to be Clayface's death - or waterloo, as it were. I remember reading that in that Cinemafantastique issue everyone is always referring to. This episode aired in 1993, and we didn't see a sign of Clayface at all until TNBA appeared with HOLIDAY KNIGHTS in 1997, and then GROWING PAINS in early 1998.

I agree, if that were Clayface's final episode, I'd be happy. That was a great downward spiral he was on, and I don't think anyone came out of watching that mess feeling happy.

Thankfully, his return episode, GROWING PAINS, was just as dark and dreary - more in Robin's case than Clayface's - but at least he wasn't totally cheapened like Mr. Freeze was in his return on TNBA.

-Tim

[Maxie Zeus]

Batman could have waited for Clayface to be cured before he arrested him. Wouldn't have taken THAT long. And besides, without his clay powers it would be a whole lot easier to kick Matt's butt without running the risk of killing him. Clayface should have stayed dead.

Interesting theory, but I don't think that's what was going on. I don't think the MD40 was going to turn Hagen human again--it was just going to repair the damage and then strengthen his powers so that he wouldn't have to exert himself so much in order to hold his human shape. (In "Feat of Clay" he said that holding a shape was like flexing a muscle.)

Early in the ep, for instance, Stella inserted a sliver of MD40 into a blob of his clay flesh. The blob did not turn into regular flesh--it just firmed up. My interpretation is that that is what would have happened to Hagen himself.

So, Batman wouldn't have had a mere human to fight--he would have been fighting an immensely strengthened Clayface.

[The Master Con]

DVD Reply!



Batman could have waited for Clayface to be cured before he arrested him. Wouldn't have taken THAT long. And besides, without his clay powers it would be a whole lot easier to kick Matt's butt without running the risk of killing him. Clayface should have stayed dead.
In Clayface Part 2 it was established that despite his power Clayface was incapable of holding a singular solid more than a few moments. The isotope would increase Clayface's power to such an extent that he could actually have to transform his body into any solid for as long as he desired. But with this ability it would also mean that his powers would be almost limitless. If Batman had let Hagan taken the isotope he would have never been able to defeat him, and as a result he would have doomed the world against an unstopable monster. Batman gave the offer of a cure, but it was clear that Matt did not truly want to be departed from his power.

[John Cage]

Hi there.

I haven't gotten to picking up the set yet, but I remember watching this when it first aired, during a week of new episodes (which helped off-set the fact another school year had started), and I was really cheesed off that Clayface died. It was really sad, and for a second it looked like his form had washed away and a body was under there at the end. Batman was really rough in this episode. Great music, though, especially at the end.

Have a good day then.
John Cage, the Mystery Man

[Harley_Quinn]

Very dramatic episode, I thought it was great and it reminds me why I loved the orginal series so much.

[The Penguin]

Tonight at 12 midnight ET, Boomerang airs the Batman: The Animated Series episode, Mudslide. If you do not have Boomerang, you are encouraged to follow along on disc 4 of your Batman: The Animated Series, Vol. 2 (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=132296) DVD set.


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/mudslide/00r.jpg
Episode #052 - Mudslide
Original Airdate - September 15th, 1993.

Clayface is falling apart - literally. His clay like body is virtually disintegrating. Fortunately, a woman scientist he knew from his movie star days is working on a remedy. However, Hagen is forced to steal money to pay for the expensive components of the remedy.

Comments?

[Paul_Cousins]

Good episode. Did anyone else catch the 'Psycho' movie references.

Batman, "...But she (Dr. Bates) use to own a hotel, but she sold it..."

[Death58]

I liked it. I thought that Clayface's so called 'death was handled nicely,and props to Ron Pearlman because his acting was top notch(as always). I guess there really isn't anything inherently wrong with the episode. I particularly liked the animation in this episode. Clayface always looked cool.:D

[JLfan4life]

A favorite sequence of mine is when Clayface is melting on the subway. A somewhat disgusting visual, but the little girl kinda cracks me up.i love that scene too!! I was cracking up at it last night. This was a good episode.

[Nygma]

I thought this episode was OK overall. But as previously said in a few other threads there was little reason for Batman to pull the plug on Clayfaces operation. He offered to help him, and being that the isotope was from the Wayne Foundation so did it really matter that it was stolen? This really should have been the end of Clayface though.

My sentiments exactly, though Growing Pains was a fantastic episode.

I never found Clayface to be as sympathetic as other villains like Freeze or Two-Face. But I did like Batmans attempts to reach out to help him find a cure. It adds a little more to Batman's character that he's not just a vigilante who's soul purpose is to put the fear of God into criminals, he actually does want to help some of Gotham's criminals reform. However...

the ending with him just shutting off the operation that was supposed to cure Clayface, is one gigantic plot hole that drags this episode down.


Interesting theory, but I don't think that's what was going on. I don't think the MD40 was going to turn Hagen human again--it was just going to repair the damage and then strengthen his powers so that he wouldn't have to exert himself so much in order to hold his human shape. (In "Feat of Clay" he said that holding a shape was like flexing a muscle.)

Early in the ep, for instance, Stella inserted a sliver of MD40 into a blob of his clay flesh. The blob did not turn into regular flesh--it just firmed up. My interpretation is that that is what would have happened to Hagen himself.

But there's no exposition given to us that Batman even knows this. Not that I remember anyways, it's been awhile since I watched this episode.


***1/2

[dark knight 90]

I personally loved this episode! - extremely dramatic and gripping.

As for the whole scenario of batman shutting of Hagen's cure towards the end... i wouldn't exactly call that a plothole...

The way i see it, in batman's mind, if Hagen wasn't going to accept medical treatment from him legally (he asked multiple times), then he wasn't allowed to get it any other way.


The only negative with this episode is that it loses its impact knowing that clayface does indeed return.

[ROBOTRON]

A classic, dramatic masterpiece. 5 - Stars.

Its rare when a toon can make me emo...and this episode of BTAS did it.

BRAVO.:D

[Maxie Zeus]

Interesting theory, but I don't think that's what was going on. I don't think the MD40 was going to turn Hagen human again--it was just going to repair the damage and then strengthen his powers so that he wouldn't have to exert himself so much in order to hold his human shape. (In "Feat of Clay" he said that holding a shape was like flexing a muscle.)


But there's no exposition given to us that Batman even knows this. Not that I remember anyways, it's been awhile since I watched this episode.

Actually, I was responding to carrieattheprom's remark that "without his clay powers it would be a whole lot easier to kick Matt's butt without running the risk of killing him." I agree that Batman couldn't have known what the MD40 was going to do to Clayface--whether it would strengthen his clay powers, turn back into a human, or cause him to sprout geraniums from his armpits. I'm also on record (http://anbat.toonzone.net/btas/mudslide.html) as thinking that Batman was a little out of line in shutting the treatment down so quickly.

[ShadowStar]

Maxie Zeus, I don't really know where else to put this, but I sent a PM to you about The Animated Batman awhile ago... Did you receive it? If so, will you please reply?

[Maxie Zeus]

Oh, gosh, I'm really sorry, man. :o

My only excuse is that I help run the news side, and I get tons of PMs, and the non-news ones sometimes get buried before I can get around to answering them. Right now, for instance, I've got 154 of them--and your PM is at the bottom of page 6.

I'll work on an answer for you right now!

[AlienX]

this episode felt like a horror movie it seems clayface life was gonna end like a movie pure irony for an actor