IGN Top 100 List; Wrong as Usual [Archive]

Killtacular

05-13-2003, 12:24 AM

According to IGN, these are the Top 100 Games of All Time.

100. Pitfall
99. Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
98. Master of Orion
97. Phantasy Star II
96. Golden Axe
95. Adventure
94. Wolfenstein 3-D
93. Simcity
92. Aces of the Pacific
91. F-Zero
90. Sonic the Hedgehog
89. Virtua Tennis
88. Warcraft II
87. Wing Commander II: Vengence of the Kilrathi
86. Tomb Raider
85. Final Fantasy X
84. Kid Icarus
83. Counter-Strike
82. Battlezone
81. Discs of Tron
80. Excitebike
79. Homeworld
78. Secret of Mana
77. Baseball Stars
76. Rayman 2: The Great Escape
75. Saturn Bomberman
74. Pilotwings
73. Galaga
72. Pokemon Red/Blue Versions
71. NCAA Football 2003
70. System Shock 2
69. Ghosts n Goblins
68. Virtua Fighter II
67. Sam and Max Hit the Road
66. Master of Magic
65. Crimson Skies
64. Shining Force II
63. Baldur's Gate
62. Herzog Zwei
61. Tobal 2
60. MechWarrior 2: 31st Century Combat
59. Advance Wars
58. Resident Evil 2
57. Star Fox
56. Return Fire
55. Bionic Commando
54. Gunstar Heroes
53. Star Control II
52. Ultima VII: The Black Gate
51. Contra
50. Archon
49. Track & Field
48. Command & Conquer: Red Alert
47. SimCity 2000
46. Conker's Bad Fur Day
45. Alone in the Dark
44. DOOM
43. Final Fantasy III
42. NBA Jam
41. Battlefield 1942
40. Deus Ex
39. Halo: Combat Evolved
38. Soul Calibur
37. Madden '96
36. Super Smash Bros. Melee
35. Thief II: The Metal Age
34. Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty
33. Wave Race 64
32. Half-Life
31. Gauntlet
30. Metal Gear Solid
29. Star Wars
28. Super Mario World
27. Pirates!
26. Tecmo Bowl
25. Prince of Persia
24. Yoshi's Island: Super Mario World 2
23. Metroid Prime
22. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
21. Gran Turismo 3: A-spec
20. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
19. GoldenEye 007
18. Grand Theft Auto III
17. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
16. NHL '94
15. Civilization 2
14. Super Mario Kart
13. Ms. Pac-Man
12. Chrono Trigger
11. Star Wars: TIE Fighter
10. Street Fighter II
9. Final Fantasy II
8. X-COM: UFO Defense
7. StarCraft
6. Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
5. Super Mario 64
4. Tetris
3. Super Metroid
2. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
1. Super Mario Bros.

RedBoot

05-13-2003, 12:44 AM

Top 100 Games List without a Bard's Tale, Lufia, or Wild Arms game != Top 100 Games List.

Would've been nice to see a Wizardry game on there too, primarily Wizardry 8, which is only the best PC RPG ever and stuff.

They get points for including Secret of Mana, Gunstar Heroes, Archon, Sam & Max, and Shining Force II, but all of those were placed way too low.

And Metroid Prime at 23...that's only about 78 places too high.

EDIT: And for those unfamiliar with the term: != means "Does not equal." People always ask about that, so I figured I'd answer if before it was asked.

blee337

05-13-2003, 07:07 AM

No list is perfect, but I do give IGN credit for recognizing a lot of classic games that most current lists tend to forget about.

SNS

05-13-2003, 07:14 AM

I don't see what's wrong with the list unless your one those people that think Final Fantasy X or Grand Theft Auto should get first place.

Bird Boy

05-13-2003, 07:57 AM

All these top 100 lists are all ones opinion. I could form my own top 100 list and people would look at me funny (why? cause I'd put some "mediocre" titles up there, even though I thoroughly enjoyed them). Everyone's opinion varies, that's just IGN's.

And I've long since stopped caring about IGN's opinion.

-BB

Andrew

05-13-2003, 08:33 AM

11. Star Wars: TIE Fighter
8. X-COM: UFO Defense
At least these are in the correct place for once.

System Shock 2, Ultima VII, Deus Ex, and Star Control II are too low for my tastes. All four should be higher on the list. Other than that, I see a lot of stuff in there that usually gets overlooked by these kinds of lists, which I'm glad for.

I mean, come on, they included Pirates!, for cryin' out loud! (Way too high, though.)

Teio

05-13-2003, 08:37 AM

The guys at IGN are around 28?What do you expect their taste in videogames to be?Though their list may not reflect teenagers but they sure do reflect most adults videogame players.

Nin-Nin69

05-13-2003, 08:48 AM

Super Mario Bros #1? Meh! :p

Super Mario Bros 3 #1. Much better. :D

Its about time they put Shining Force on, but its still not Part 3. :(

EinBebop

05-13-2003, 10:31 AM

At least *they* mentioned Super Mario Brothers!!

AlphaPrime

05-13-2003, 10:37 AM

EinBebop

05-13-2003, 10:45 AM

sheesh even i know 7's the best of the lot and i haven't even played 10 yet.I now know who *NOT* to look to when I want objectivity. :p

Weatherman

05-13-2003, 10:57 AM

Top 6 games from Nintendo (and yeah, I know Tetris is not a Nintendo product per say, but they did have the rights for awhile), w00t. :D heheh

Anyway, it is jus ttheir opinion, like any "top list". Take it for whatever you think it's worth.

Killtacular

05-13-2003, 12:01 PM

The problem with these lists is that they look more like 100 Most Important Games instead of 100 Best Games. They list games in the top 10 not because they're the greatest games currently out, but simply because they were innovative and groundbreaking.. AT THE TIME.

And any list that does that is wrong. I'm sorry, but they're wrong.

1. Super Mario Bros

Super Mario Bros is not the best game of all time. It's not even a GOOD game. Compare it against any modern-day platformer and I would rather play a modern-day platformer.

My choice as best platform game: Rayman 2. It would not get #1, but it
would kick Super Mario Bros' ass back to #79 or so.

2. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Um, hello, is anyone playing the game that I'M playing? Horrible framerate, terrible control problems, poor dungeon designs, bland music, cliche overdone story... this game does not deserve to be on any list. Place Link to the Past here and now we're getting somewhere.

3. Super Metroid

Correct.

4. Tetris

Highly overrated puzzle game that's dull compared to games like Bust-A-Move and Puyo Puyo.

5. Super Mario 64

See #1 for my opinion on this. Modern day platformers kick this games' ass. Super Mario 64 belongs on this list, but not so high. It WAS the best game.. AT ONE POINT IN TIME. Currently, it definitely isn't.

6. Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Should be #2. End of story.

7. Starcraft

Correct.

8. X-Com

Correct.

9. Final Fantasy IV

Final Fantasy IV should never be placed in front of Final Fantasy VI. That is the dumbest, most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Final Fantasy 6 makes Final Fantasy 4 fall on its knees and beg to be a part of the FF family.

10. Street Fighter II

Are you trying to suggest that games like Soul Calibur 2 and Capcom Vs. SNK 2 are not as good as a horrible fighting game from 1992 that encouraged repetitive button mashing? Can anyone say "Haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken hadukenhaduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken hadukenhaduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken"?

19. Goldeneye

Poor excuses for an FPS like this should not place on the list.

30. Metal Gear Solid

To suggest that a game like "Pirates!" or "Tecmo Bowl" is better than Metal Gear Solid is absurd. I don't think anyone here doubts that.

33. Wave Race 64

You're joking, right?

57. Star Fox

See #30.

67. Sam and Max Hit The Road

Deserves to be in the Top 10. It just does. Unlike these other games which will stop being entertaining in 10 years, Sam and Max is entertaining no matter when or where you play it. It's timeless.

76. Rayman 2

Deserves to be in the Top 10.

83. Counter-Strike

Excitebike is not better than Counter-Strike.

88. Warcraft II

Deserves to be up there with Starcraft.

90. Sonic the Hedgehog

Sonic the Hedgehog does not deserve a fate as bad as #90. It deserves to be in the top 30 games. Even today it is a blast to play (unlike Super Mario) because of the sheer speed factor that few platformers can match. It actually still brings something fresh to the table today, compared to other, sluggish platformers like Banjo Kazooie.

Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 should be on this list as well, as should Sonic Adventures 1 and 2. Sonic Adventures 1 and 2 would be at the back of the list, and Sonics 1-3 would be near the top.

czyznyck99

05-13-2003, 12:20 PM

My disdain for both of these mainly comes from their treatment of Sonic the Hedgehog. Weird. But the fact that anybody thinks they can put out a top 100 list has got to be nuts. There are way too many games out there to make any decent list without people complaining. There should be no ranking, period.

Later.

blee337

05-13-2003, 01:19 PM

Alrighty then.............

The problem with these lists is that they look more like 100 Most Important Games instead of 100 Best Games. They list games in the top 10 not because they're the greatest games currently out, but simply because they were innovative and groundbreaking.. AT THE TIME.

And any list that does that is wrong. I'm sorry, but they're wrong.

Its not a 100 greatest games CURRENTLY OUT. Its OF ALL TIME. I think that is the great thing about this list. As someone who grew up and played through these generations of games, I like how IGN recognized them. A great game is great because its fun to play, not because of its looks (which get outdated). Thats why a lot of people can have more fun playing a 2d GBA port than a new flashy 3d game. And whats wrong with recognizing games that were top tier in their generation?

2. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Um, hello, is anyone playing the game that I'M playing? Horrible framerate, terrible control problems, poor dungeon designs, bland music, cliche overdone story... this game does not deserve to be on any list. Place Link to the Past here and now we're getting somewhere.

??????????????????
I have no problem with your preference to Link to the Past....but come on. I don't like OoT as much as some people, but it is definetly one of the best games of all time. I guess I have been playing a different game.

4. Tetris

Highly overrated puzzle game that's dull compared to games like Bust-A-Move and Puyo Puyo.

Without Tetris, there are no Puyo Puyo or Bust a Move games.

9. Final Fantasy IV

Final Fantasy IV should never be placed in front of Final Fantasy VI. That is the dumbest, most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Final Fantasy 6 makes Final Fantasy 4 fall on its knees and beg to be a part of the FF family.

I don't think so. While FF6 has the edge in visuals and audio.....that doesn't make it a better game. Dark Knight Cecil's quest for redemption and the discovery of his lineage outdoes the War of the Magi. FF6 is awsome.........but not as awsome as FF4. AACHOOOOO!!!

10. Street Fighter II

Are you trying to suggest that games like Soul Calibur 2 and Capcom Vs. SNK 2 are not as good as a horrible fighting game from 1992 that encouraged repetitive button mashing? Can anyone say "Haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken hadukenhaduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken hadukenhaduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken"?

That horrible fighting game you speak of sent a surge through the Arcade Industry and inspired every other game developer to come up with "the next Street Fighter". Street Fighter is the farthest thing from a button masher........if you know how to play it. Tekken on the other hand.

You got to look at things in perspective. If all these games were released today........what would be received better? Pitfall or Halo??Duh.
You can't omit the classics because without the classics there would be no foundation for the games we love to play.

Killtacular

05-13-2003, 01:31 PM

But I do not love to play the classics. They were good for their time but they are not good anymore. Their time has past. Super Mario Bros is not the best game of all time, and it never will be.

Shawn Hopkins

05-13-2003, 01:52 PM

Neither Fallout game made this list. That's just inexcusable.

Some of the games that did make the list are suprising. How did Kid Icarus rate so high? Nostalgia?

I agree that if you think Street Fighter II is a button masher, you aren't playing it right.

These lists are very subjective. Games are always overlooked and no one will be able to agree on all the rankings.

Animation Otaku

05-13-2003, 02:00 PM

I agree with Matt on this one, it seems like they're listing games that were innovative, rather than good. Super Mario Bros., Tetris, and Street Fighter II were innovative, but they aren't among the best games. And Ocarina of Time was an embarassment to the Zelda Franchise. It's music was awful, the graphics didn't fit the game, the storyline was poorly thrown together, and the dungeons were just stupid.

blee337

05-13-2003, 02:10 PM

Rabbiterose

05-13-2003, 02:52 PM

WTF?? FF10 FF4 and FF6 made it but not FF7? sheesh even i know 7's the best of the lot and i haven't even played 10 yet. Losers. I'll give them credit for RE2 and Zelda" A Link to the Past and PS2 and SF2 though.

:moon:

Sorry, but I have to disagree on you with that. As I find FF7 to be the most overrated of the lot I've played (FF4-FF10) instead of the best. :p I prefer FFX to FF7 also.

And as much as a classic FFIV is and that it did make good use of the 'Pray' theme, I think it's a rated a bit too high. Also notice that they use FFII instead of FFIV meaning they think the crappily edited, easy type version of FFIV for the SNES we got at the states is superior to FFIII(FFVI with very minor edits). I DON'T THINK SO!

And SMB at no. 1? And no mention of SMB3?! No. Just no. Again, SMB maybe a classic and got many people into gaming but SMB3 and Super Mario 64 really took the franchise off and had much better gameplay, IMHO.

OoT is always overrated. Meh, I prefer Wind Waker to OoT probably because WW has a better camera than OoT that doesn't give me headaches. :p I agree with Matt, LttP should be ranked higher.

I have other complaints, about the list but I don't feel like discussing them.

RedBoot

05-13-2003, 03:16 PM

Neither Fallout game made this list. That's just inexcusable.

You know, I didn't notice that until you mentioned it. You're right, it is inexcusable. Wasteland, their spiritual prequel, was snubbed as well.

I do agree that, while SMB1 is a classic game and is definetly one of the most important games of all time, it's not the best of all time. I wouldn't mind seeing it in the 70s or so, as it is still a fun game, but I'd rather play Mario 64 or Mario Sunshine any day of the week.

However, some older games are still fun to play, even compared to today's games. As Matt said, Sam & Max is still a fun and unique experience today, and really has no equal amongst current games. There's no "upgraded version" (well, not yet) to play instead, a la SMB and Mario 64. There's a difference between classic games you still like because of nostalgia, and classic games you still like because they're still fun to play.

Nin-Nin69

05-13-2003, 04:02 PM

Hmmm..... *takes a closer look at the list.*

I could've swarn it was better than that. :(

Lets see

1. Super Mario Bros.

I would understand that it’s the most recognizable video game in the world, but it’s not the best. Especially if it is worth a dime a dozen at Funcoland or the Flea Market. SMB 3, SMW, SM64, and SM Sunshine beat this game easily.

2. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

LoZ, Link to the Past, and Wind Waker beat this one easily.

4. Tetris

Yes it influenced the puzzle games we know of today and I was a big fan of it, but Sakura Wars Columns, Dr. Mario64, Super Puzzle Fighter II, Saturn Bomberman, IQ, Pokemon Puzzle League, Dr. Robotnick's Mean Bean Machine, or even Bust-a-Move blow this classic and its remakes out of the water.

5. Super Mario 64

Should replace #1

6. Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Should replace #2

7. StarCraft

Warcraft I, II, and III ties with this game

9. Final Fantasy II

Replace with VI or IV. No not VII or X you silly fanboys.

10. Street Fighter II

Button Masher game? Buhahahahaha! More like a fireball trap/turtle game compared to fighters of today. SSFII is a better choice, but not as great as Fatal Fury Real Bout, Samurai Showdown, or Last Blade. And sadly most people use these same skills in future fighting games. I automaticly know when some guy playing Capcom vs SNK 2 picks Ryu, Ken, Akuma, or Blanka, Guile, Barlog that its going to be an easy win since I allready know their stragity. :p

15. Civilization 2

No no no. Bad dog. Back down the list you go.

17. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

Should be 5th or 6th w/ the past 3 GBA releases and Dracula X on SNES.

19. GoldenEye 007

Half-Life/CS should be here

22. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!

Put Super Punch Out up here too. Also people will think this is a personal opinion and I'm crazy, but Hajime no Ippo: Victorious Boxers is the only good boxing to go up against Punch Out even though it lacks the humor and style of the game, its still an unbelievable boxing game that gives each characters some wild moves and personalities unlike R2R, KK's, or B&B.

27. Pirates!

Hahahahahahahahaha! No really? Knock that back down around the 90's or even further down.

35. Thief II: The Metal Age

Hitman 2 could even tie with this.

30. Metal Gear Solid

Top 20's easily

32. Half-Life

Ranks up higher that this.

45. Alone in the Dark

I know this was the first horror survival game, but it never was that scary compared to RE, Clock Tower, Silent Hill, or Dino Crisis. It was just laughable because all the monsters and zombies looked like ugly blobs with weasel faces. It improved in 4th game and that should replace the 1st one.

47. SimCity 2000

The old switcharoo with Civilization 2.

51. Contra

In the 40's or even 30's.

64. Shining Force II

Should be III and even higher ranked.

68. Virtua Fighter II

Should be IV.

73. Galaga

People still swarm around this game in the arcades more than Ms. Pacman. So switch the two places, but make it from Ms. to just plain old Pacman and put it around the 40's-30's.

83. Counter-Strike

Higher Ranked.

86. Tomb Raider

Well it was good, but not great. The sequels and prequels just killed it as well as the PS2 version.

87. Wing Commander II: Vengence of the Kilrathi

No no no. GTFO that list. That was a horrible game and and even more horrible movie. Put Commander and Conquer there instead and rank it higher.

88. Warcraft II

Higher Ranked.

90. Sonic the Hedgehog

I would cry if I was a little blue hedgehog too. Up in the high 30's some where.

93. Simcity

No need for it, change it with Postal.

95. Adventure

OMG the 1st PC text game, Adventure, beats Pitfall and Streets of Rage (Not on the list) WTF?!? :eek:

John Miles

05-13-2003, 04:36 PM

Sketch

05-13-2003, 06:21 PM

Matt I hate to say this but you're full of crap!

Super Mario Bros. I will admit is not the "greatest" game of all time, but it is one of them. Anyone young and old can pick up SMB and play it and enjoy the experience. If the graphics hurt their eyes then they can play the Super Mario All-Stars version.

Legend of Zelda; Ocarina of Time does have crappy frame rate at times (not the GC version mind you), but it is the finest attempt at a 3D adventure game ever to be made. It's just hard enough to stay interesting, but pretty much anyone can beat it. OoT is one of the greatest games of all time.

Tetris is the greatest puzzle game ever. Nintendo has said it, EGM has said it, and now IGN has said it. The game is still fun even today. It's one of the only games "adults" like to play (that aren't violent) and kids can enjoy it too.

Super Mario 64 is a fantastic game. There has never been a 3D platformer quite as good. Rayman 2 doesn't even come close man. Sunshine wasn't as good, BK (though more creative) wasn't better, DK64 didn't even come close, Gex, Croc, Crash, Spyro... They all sucked in comparison. Miyamoto made a master piece ahead of it's time. You have to respect that.

I agree FF6 is much better than 4.

Street Fighter is the king of fighters (sorry about the pun). It revolutionized the industry and is still fun today. Soul Calibur is neck and neck with it in many aspects of greatness, but it is a truely fantastic game.

GOLDENEYE OWNZ YOU!!! The game will always remain the best console FPS. The frame rate aside it's innovative, got good level design, and 4 player matches are any bit as great as 16 player Halo or how many player Counter-Strike.

There should be more Sonic games on the list and they should be higher up, Link to the Past should be 4th at least, and Super Mario Bros. 3 should be in the top 10, and what are they thining with Wave Race? Oh and WHERE'S MY TMNT!

Too many people are blinded by what is fun now and what is cool now. Some of the oldies deserve their spots for the sheer fact of how long they were good. This is the "greatest 100 games of ALL time", which obviously means that the games reflected in it should mainly be older. Because many of the older games were better and still are. Fancy graphics, new innovations, online ability, large number of players for multiplayer, etc. don't make a game great. It's if it's fun or not. If you can play SMB, SM64, Goldeneye, Zelda:OoT, Tetris and Street Fighter II and not admit they are fun they I deam you crazy and you have my pitty. Some people don't like these games yes, but their impact and quality speak for themselves. Greatest means more than just best of yadda yadda. It means much much more.

Killtacular

05-13-2003, 06:35 PM

Super Mario Bros. I will admit is not the "greatest" game of all time, but it is one of them. Anyone young and old can pick up SMB and play it and enjoy the experience. If the graphics hurt their eyes then they can play the Super Mario All-Stars version.
It is a passably entertaining experience, but not one of the greatest. The later sequels are much better.

Legend of Zelda; Ocarina of Time does have crappy frame rate at times (not the GC version mind you)
The GC version has the exact same framerate.

but it is the finest attempt at a 3D adventure game ever to be made. It's just hard enough to stay interesting, but pretty much anyone can beat it. OoT is one of the greatest games of all time.
It's an attempt, sure, but not a success. When it comes to "3D adventures", I think Kingdom Hearts is a much better experience and all-around game.

Tetris is the greatest puzzle game ever. Nintendo has said it, EGM has said it, and now IGN has said it. The game is still fun even today. It's one of the only games "adults" like to play (that aren't violent) and kids can enjoy it too.
I don't care how many people say it's the greatest puzzle game ever. It's not.

Super Mario 64 is a fantastic game. There has never been a 3D platformer quite as good. Rayman 2 doesn't even come close man.
Rayman 2 spanks Super Mario 64 and sends it to bed early. It is the best platformer, bar none. Perhaps if you played it (the PC version, of course), you would know what I mean.

Sunshine wasn't as good, BK (though more creative) wasn't better,
Banjo Kazooie is the worst platformer, bar none.

DK64 didn't even come close,
Woops, forgot about that one.

Gex, Croc, Crash, Spyro... They all sucked in comparison. Miyamoto made a master piece ahead of it's time. You have to respect that.
I respect that Miyamoto made a game that was good.. in 1995. A game that was still good in 1997. A game that is not so good in 2003.

You conveniently excluded Jak and Daxter and Ratchet and Clank, two games that also kick Mario ass. And Sonic Adventure... enough said.

Street Fighter is the king of fighters (sorry about the pun). It revolutionized the industry and is still fun today. Soul Calibur is neck and neck with it in many aspects of greatness, but it is a truely fantastic game.
Please. Street Fighter is a terrible game. There is no strategy to the early incarnations. Horrible computer AI (although real life people would likely haduken just as much). Poor animation. Today's fighters are a giant leap above this game. A humongous leap.

GOLDENEYE OWNZ YOU!!! The game will always remain the best console FPS. The frame rate aside it's innovative, got good level design, and 4 player matches are any bit as great as 16 player Halo or how many player Counter-Strike.
Goldeneye owns fools. It is the most over-rated game of all time. As an experienced FPS player who played them all, from Kens Labyrinth to NOLF2, I can assure you that Goldeneye falls into the lower rung. Even when it was released, the other FPSes as the time (Quake 2) far outclassed it.

blee337

05-13-2003, 06:53 PM

Please. Street Fighter is a terrible game. There is no strategy to the early incarnations. Horrible computer AI (although real life people would likely haduken just as much). Poor animation. Today's fighters are a giant leap above this game. A humongous leap.

You can't judge technology at the time for a game's shortcomings (like you are with Zelda OoT). SF2's animation was not bad.....in 1992. And which game had better AI in 1992? And to say this game had no strategy tells me you don't have a lot of experience with this game.

Sketch

05-13-2003, 06:54 PM

You did not just call BK a terrible game did you? Oooooo now it's gonna get nasty!

Kingdom Hearts is a great game, but it doesn't come close to how great OoT is. I'm sorry Matt but you just aren't proving your point to me. I've played both and I have to say OoT is more enjoyable. KH is a brilliant game, but no OoT.

I can't believe that you don't think Tetris is the best. Bust-A-Move is a close second IMO and Tetris Attack it's heals. Tetris doesn't get old (then again most puzzle games don't, but there are exceptions). Tetris is the best. PERIOD.

You play platformers on PC's? Sheesh... Super Mario 64 is much much much better. The levels are creative, the fights with Bowser have never been better, and the collecting doesn't get as old as it does in most games. You don't get much better than that. Rayman 2 is a grand game, but SM64 blows it out of the water and always will. I think you just like Rayman, and if you are wondering if I "just like Mario" then you'd be wrong. I hate Mario really. It's all about Luigi (if you hadn't figured that out), but I'll swallow my pride and play Super Mario 64. It is plain out a fantastic game. SM64 didn't come out in 1995... N64 wasn't even around back then. 1995 was back when we still had Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (not Zeo or beyond). SM64 is still good today. I know several people that still enjoy it today.

If it owns fools then I guess you're a fool (okay that was a cheap pointless blow, but I'm tiffed now). Goldeneye is an excellent experience every time. Compared to many PC FPS it doesn't make the cut, but there has yet to have been a better console FPS. Doom and Wolfenstein 3D were great but Golden Eye perfected the engine in ways that none of it's predessors did. It was a console FPS that felt right. Many new FPS games still don't feel right to me. Golden Eye is a fantastic game. I'm sad you don't see that, but I can't prove it to you any more than that without playing it with you.

Once again I must say just because it's outdated Street Fighter II isn't as bad as you say it is. The graphics aren't much in comparrision but that shouldn't matter. The game will always be worth picking up. Button mashing can be lots of fun afterall. "New and improved" doesn't always mean best.

Are you saying games today are better than the likes of which that were in the old arcades, and on the NES and SNES? If so you are a fool. I can't really speak for PC games because I typically only play "You Don't Know Jack", but consoles will probably never get better than SNES and NES and arcades other than Soul Calibur (1 and 2) and the Marvel VS Capcom series have been pretty lame as of late. They just aren't getting better and that's why the arcade industry is failing right now. They aren't offering an experience worth going to an arcade for.

John Miles

05-13-2003, 06:59 PM

Banjo Kazooie is the worst platformer, bar none.

I honestly don't understand what's not to like about Banjo-Kazooie. It improved upon the Mario 64 formula in every way: better graphics, better music and sound, improved control, more variety in gameplay, a better sense of atmosphere, the list goes on.

Now, I would agree that Banjo-Tooie took the item collection stuff too far and wasn't as good of a game, but Banjo-Kazooie was platforming perfection.

Final C yourgod

05-13-2003, 07:26 PM

What are the people at IGN smoking?

ohmrbill

05-13-2003, 08:04 PM

No.

The term "100 Best Games" doesn't have to mean the most fun games by today's standards. "Best" is a term that is subject to opinion. Some people would include traits like nostalgia value and innovation in their opinion of what makes one of the "best" games, while you obviously would not.

IGN isn't wrong in calling these the best 100 games of all time, they're just using different standards than perhaps you would.

That's probably the most logical thing that's been said this entire thread.

I'll never understand how some people think they can argue personal taste.

randomguy

05-13-2003, 09:52 PM

Huh... well, not a terrible list, but some stuff just seems weird to me. Metroid Prime, for my money, is getting the shaft. And Ocarina is far too high. Don't get me wrong; I love it and it's a great game, but #2? That's waaaaaaaaaaaay too high. I'd put it at #10, tops.

As for the importance of a videogame's influence versus its quality, I'll quote EGM from their most recent top 100 list. I think this quote's applicable:

"Sorry, but this list ain't about the 100 most influential games of all time... You want nostalgia? Go play Pong. You want a kick-ass game? Go play Virtua Tennis."

Weatherman

05-13-2003, 10:26 PM

Matt, to be blunt, if ya don't like the list DON'T READ IT.

Go ahead and make your own list of what YOU consider to be the best 100 games of all time. This is their opinon. I don't see them making any claims elsewise. Disagreement is fine, welcome even, but you're just being an ass about it for no apparent reason.

SlyBoy

05-13-2003, 10:43 PM

Yeah Matt, don't be dissin' the classics, yo! :p Seriously, games like Street Fighter 2 and Tetris revolutionized their respective genres. So lay off the classics! :mad:

Nin-Nin69

05-13-2003, 10:48 PM

Its about time we see some bashing coments on Matt's thoughs on video games since is usually us two going at it. ;)

And you can't help the fact that SFII its outdated and old technology. Who cares? Its still fun. Heck all gamers/non gamers can relate to it. I'm not saying its the best, but it should've been ranked a little lower than other classic fighters. Either that or replace it with SSFII Turbo.

Vidfreak

05-14-2003, 12:00 AM

Dont mind Matt his first system was the PS1.

Sketch

05-14-2003, 12:21 AM

No wonder... mine was a SNES (I played NES though and I own one and 41 games for it now). Stick to the toons Matt because that's what you know best.

I'd actually like to see Matt's list of the "greatest games of all time" it wouldn't have to be 100, but maybe 50, 30, or less.

Jade_GL

05-14-2003, 01:00 AM

My first system was an Atari and a Commadore 64 (well, that's a computer, but you get my drift...) :)

Anyway, I think the list is ok. I might put other games on, or put things in different places, but I think it's pretty ok for a list. I mean, they can't include everything, nor can they get everything in just the right place. So I think it's pretty good in trying to cover the braod range of games and systems, what is good out of everything.

I'd just like to bring up something. The game that may have started survival horror was actually a game that never came to the US. It was a survival horror/rpg blend called Sweet Home and it never made it to the states. They were going to translate it, but the project was stopped, probably because of the story itself, and the blood, zombies, skeletons, evil dolls, etc. It was made by Capcom in 1989. It has a lot of the conventions seen in later survival horror games, such as the clip of the door opening that is in Resident Evil, and the fact that you fight zombies of course.... But it's also an rpg because it has leveling up and the fighting system is a turn based operation. Still, there is some debate with people who have actually had the chance to play. Just thought I'd bring that up. :)

Anyway, this game is scary as all heck. I mean, I played just some of it and I was tense. It's the only Nintendo game that's ever made that crawling in my stomach happen. Ugh. They sell it on ebay and someone has translated it, but I don't know where to DL it, so don't ask me.:D I'm not advocating it, just saying it's out there somewhere.

http://www.vgmuseum.com/pics/sweethome.html some screens from the beginning, no zombies in this, darn.

Lucky Bob

05-14-2003, 05:57 AM

The problem with these lists is that they look more like 100 Most Important Games instead of 100 Best Games. They list games in the top 10 not because they're the greatest games currently out, but simply because they were innovative and groundbreaking.. AT THE TIME.

And any list that does that is wrong. I'm sorry, but they're wrong.

Well, let's look at it logically, here. If these are the "best games of all time", then we'd have to account for each one, and what makes/made them great. If we only looked at current games, I don't think we could fill up all 100 slots.

1. Super Mario Bros

Super Mario Bros is not the best game of all time. It's not even a GOOD game. Compare it against any modern-day platformer and I would rather play a modern-day platformer.

My choice as best platform game: Rayman 2. It would not get #1, but it
would kick Super Mario Bros' ass back to #79 or so.

I agree, SMB should be at MOST #50. It was just a weak attempt on the part of IGN to say, "Hey, everybody loves that game! Let's go with it!"

But, unfortunately, I know nothing of this Rayman 2 thou speakest of. Give me Super Mario Bros. 3 any day. Not only was it the best-selling platformer of all time, it was also undisputedly the best Mario game. (Makes me wonder why it's not on the list.)

2. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Um, hello, is anyone playing the game that I'M playing? Horrible framerate, terrible control problems, poor dungeon designs, bland music, cliche overdone story... this game does not deserve to be on any list. Place Link to the Past here and now we're getting somewhere.

Right again. There are really quite a few other games that belong at #2. I'm not a Zelda fan, so I'm saying no to this choice.

4. Tetris

Highly overrated puzzle game that's dull compared to games like Bust-A-Move and Puyo Puyo.

Actually, I think it's just about right. I probably would have said #5, myself. Tetris really set a standard that many puzzle games still follow. It deserves to be here for the historical aspect, if nothing else.

5. Super Mario 64

See #1 for my opinion on this. Modern day platformers kick this games' ass. Super Mario 64 belongs on this list, but not so high. It WAS the best game.. AT ONE POINT IN TIME. Currently, it definitely isn't.

Great game, but it belongs just a little lower, IMHO. Somewhere in the early 10s.

9. Final Fantasy IV

Final Fantasy IV should never be placed in front of Final Fantasy VI. That is the dumbest, most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Final Fantasy 6 makes Final Fantasy 4 fall on its knees and beg to be a part of the FF family.

Not a fan of this series, either. But this critique reminded me of a joke by Dave Barry....

''Halloween 8 came out, I thought it was the best Halloween ever. It made Halloween 7 look like Halloween 5.''

10. Street Fighter II

Are you trying to suggest that games like Soul Calibur 2 and Capcom Vs. SNK 2 are not as good as a horrible fighting game from 1992 that encouraged repetitive button mashing? Can anyone say "Haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken hadukenhaduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken hadukenhaduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken haduken"?

LOL! I might put that in my sig.

Ryu and Ken irritated me to no end. I always found it IMPOSSIBLE to win against them. If it weren't for them, SF2 would be the best fighting game ever.

That said, I wasted more quarters on this game than anything else in '92, so, they weren't too far off. A little lower on this one.

19. Goldeneye

Poor excuses for an FPS like this should not place on the list.

Strongly disagree. It may not have been the most hardcore FPS in the world, but the entertainment value was gold. And I'd go so far as to say that it was the best Bond game ever. (An easy feat, but still...)

33. Wave Race 64

You're joking, right?

Ditto

57. Star Fox

See #30.

Eh, it was cool enough. Especially for the time. Polygons were (at that time) unheard of on the SNES. Starfox broke a lot of barriers.

90. Sonic the Hedgehog

Sonic the Hedgehog does not deserve a fate as bad as #90. It deserves to be in the top 30 games. Even today it is a blast to play (unlike Super Mario) because of the sheer speed factor that few platformers can match. It actually still brings something fresh to the table today, compared to other, sluggish platformers like Banjo Kazooie.

Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 should be on this list as well, as should Sonic Adventures 1 and 2. Sonic Adventures 1 and 2 would be at the back of the list, and Sonics 1-3 would be near the top.

Can't disagree there.

BTW, where's Ready 2 Rumble boxing? And Tekken 3?

Sketch

05-14-2003, 10:40 AM

Weatherman

05-14-2003, 11:21 AM

You're not even reading. MY opinion was the one that was ATTACKED. All I've been doing is defending myself. If you're saying that people should just lie down and let people walk all over them, and not stand up for themselves, there is no reason for this message board to exist. You don't have to like my attitude, I understand that. But you can't tell me I can't protect myself when people bite my arm off for prefering current games to vintage games.

And apparently you didn't listen to what I said. I said you are more then free to disagree with the list and nitpick it all you like, but you're doing it in such a way that you look like either a whinny fan boy or just someone doing it to be contrary.

As for oyu being "ATTACKED", you attacked IGN's opinion in the first place. "Wrong, as usual" betrayed you're intetions from the start.

Killtacular

05-14-2003, 12:36 PM

Kingdom Hearts is a fantastic game, but the Legend the Ocarina of Time is incredible. The story is cliched, but it's still one of the best stories in the Zelda series, it had a omonis feel to it... something the previous games never quite captured (LttP was real close though).
It may be the best Zelda story, and the best Zelda game, but it's not the best adventure game, believe me.

Furthermore the ending was pretty good where as KH's ending sucks unless you get the special movie at the end which isn't really an ending.
Gah? I heavily enjoyed Kingdom Hearts' ending. Zelda's ending was more sappy predictable crap. Square will always remain the better storyteller. That's the best I can say without going into spoilers.

Actually this quarrel is rather pointless because Zelda and KH aren't really similar games. Kingdom Hearts is an action based RPG and Zelda is an action based adventure game (I've never really considered it an RPG). If you want to compare KH to anything then Secret Mana is the game.
Kingdom Hearts is just as much an adventure game as Zelda. The play mechanics are too similar. The only real difference is that Kingdom Hearts has summons and items.

Timesplitters - no it was all multiplayer no single player worth playing
The single player can be compared to Unreal Tournament, where the game is meant to be played with other people, but the single player provides a decent experience anyway. It's good practice. I thought Timesplitters aces out Goldeneye simply because of the richer environments, tighter controls, and a lot of fun multiplayer options. Plus you could build your own maps!

Timesplitters 2 - almost it's the closest by far next to Perfect Dark
Gaaaaaaaaah. Timesplitters 2 beats the pants off of Perfect Dark. An awesome single-player campaign, tons of varied maps and game modes, fast and furious gameplay (and frame rate), improved map editor, and MONKEYS. The fact that it has MONKEYS alone makes it THE BEST console FPS.

Agent Under Fire (much better single-player experience) - heck no what are you smoking... Night Fire is about as good as TS2 though
I have not played Nightfire yet, but Agent Under Fire was a really good game, regardless of what you're smoking. I felt it one-upped Goldeneye in the single-player department. More sense of stealth, lots of gadgets to use... how you enjoy the control scheme depends on the system but on GC and PS2 it was alright. I'd say the only advantage GE has over AUF is the multiplayer mode. While AUF's is alright (comparable to Quake 3), GE has more modes and maps.

Halo - At 16 player it's about as good as Perfect Dark
Perfect Dark doesn't have huge sprawling environments, or tons of vehicles and aircraft to fly. Plus, Halo has co-op mode, which automatically makes it one of the best, if it weren't for...

Serious Sam 1 + 2 - I can't speak for this one, but it never caught my attention enough to care
Then you've missed out on one of the greatest. Serious Sam is by far the most fun, energetic first person shooter ever created. Designed to be enjoyed with multiple people, you and your friends must do battle with hordes of zillions of monsters. Each new room has a ridiculously absurd amount of enemies to fight, and it's just nerve-wracking and scary enough to be a hell of a lot of fun. It's not thoughtless monster placement either. Every room in every level is well thought out, whether it throws a bunch of enemies at you, or executes booby traps and wind machines.

The best way to know if Serious Sam is your cup of tea is to download one of the demos for the PC, and play either online or on a LAN. Serious Sam, as a PC game, was miles above the other FPSes in terms of fun factor and multiplayer enjoyment. And as a console game, it repeats history.

My console FPS list:

5. Quake 3 Arena (Dreamcast)
4. Halo (Xbox)
3. Agent Under Fire (PS2,GC,XBOX)
2. Serious Sam 1+2 (Xbox)
1. Timesplitters 2 (PS2,GC,XBOX)

Nin-Nin69

05-14-2003, 03:32 PM

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL199/1079436/2027761/25251980.jpg

Settle down everyone. Things are just getting way out of hand here.

SNS

05-14-2003, 03:36 PM

Flame wars? There haven't been that much flames, a flame war would be more like constant flaming.

Tash

05-14-2003, 03:55 PM

...

could someone post the context of this list. I'm curious as to what they mean by "best games". To they mean "Best for their time", "Best compared to now" or "best because everyone likes them"?

and does anyone else find it odd that there is no "marvel vs. Capcom 2"? That game was both invoative, and is still (in some's opinion) better than a lot of modern fighters.

Jade_GL

05-14-2003, 04:29 PM

and does anyone else find it odd that there is no "marvel vs. Capcom 2"? That game was both invoative, and is still (in some's opinion) better than a lot of modern fighters.

Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 is my favorite fighting game... ever. I think it could easily be on the list, and it's vertainly not new, maybe they just put STreet Fighter on and figured that was good enough for all the sequels, etc? I have no idea.

I think it is the best fighting game I have ever played though, just because of the shear fun of it, and the frenetic pacing, crazy specials, and the kind of smack it makes one talk when you school someone.

"AWWW YEAH! Cyclops just punked your ***** out!"

:D:D:D

Thank goodness for editing. I can't talk smack when the forums won't allow it, but you get what I mean. :)

SlyBoy

05-14-2003, 08:27 PM

Yes, games today are better. I'm sorry if you're too blinded by nostalgia to escape your tiny little plastic bubble (yes, I say this to quite a lot of people. it's a trained reflex), but if you really think the games of the olden days are better than what we have today, then I dare you to stop purchasing new games, hide all of your new systems somewhere and lock them away, and try living off your old collection of video games for a year. I absolutely guarantee you will not make it. Hell, I'm sure most of you don't even have your old systems hooked up.

Hey, I'm only 13 years old and I enjoy classic games. I have all my classic systems (NES, Atari 2600, SNES, Genesis, SMS) all hooked up and ready for action. I also enjoy a lot of modern games too. I LOVE FPSes (especially Quake 2), a number of 3D platformers, and a few fighting games to boot! Say what you want, but you can't stop me from collecting and playing classic systems. And that doesn't mean I'll stop buying new games for my modern systems.

Sketch

05-14-2003, 11:38 PM

You know Perfect Dark has a co-op mode right? Just checking...

Halo is a grand game I'll give you that, but it just hasn't captivated me like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark have. TimeSplitters 2 is a terrific game compare to the FPS of today, but the levels aren't very exciting (multiplayer wise I mean). Goldeneye's levels were great in just about every way.

I'll check out Sam 1 and 2 sometime if I get the chance. What you say intrigues me and it looks like Sam is a little crazy so it could be good times.

The difference I find is that Goldeneye (multiplayer at least) stands up to how much fun the new FPS games are. That alone makes it ahead of it's time and number one. The fact that it can even be more enjoyable cements that fact.

EA's Bond games while getting better, just don't have the Rare magic. They aren't bad, but they aren't the best either. I'll admit the weapons in the new games are pretty spiffy, but weapons aren't everything (though you might think they would be...)

Teio

05-15-2003, 12:06 AM

How bout we change this thread's title to "ToonZone vs. Matt Wilson"? :rolleyes:

I'd like to leave you with this quote...

I'll never understand how some people think they can argue personal taste.

Skiptastic

05-15-2003, 12:51 AM

Listen, I didn't find out about this thread until it was two pages into it, and because I already mentioned the fact that this list is wrong for its omission of River City Ransom. But both of the sides arguing are forgetting one big thing:

I am right and everyone else is only right if they agree with me. I won't go into what I am right about unless I have to, but just know that I am right. So there.

Duke

05-15-2003, 12:21 PM

Personally, Zelda: OoT is one of my Top 5 games of all time. It was my 2nd most-played game of all time (Original Smash Bros. is #1 due to me bringing it to my high school Video game Club). I'm not a big FPS fan, so I don't really care for Goldeneye, Counter-Strike, Quake, etc.

IGN forgot Link's Awakening, which is better than Link to the Past, IMO. And Super Mario Bros. 3.

Speaking of classic games, I love them. Hell, I treasure my e-Reader greatly, and have all the e-Reader games out (except for the three just released). My favorite is Excitebike. And I suck in Donkey Kong just as much as I did 10 years ago.

And if IGN really was doing a Top 100 Innovative/Groundbreaking games, where are StarFox 64 (Again in my Top 5 N64 games. I love this game), and Rogue Squadron?

And Sonic 2 & 3(w/Knuckles) were much better than Sonic 1.

Scythemantis

05-17-2003, 02:07 AM

No 3-d zelda game and no final fantasy after 6 should be anywhere near this list.

Also, redboot, on the boards I frequent "does not equal" has always been symbolized with =/= (broken equal sign). I have no idea where you got the != from...that's just plain weird!!!

Duke - rogue squadron/starfox 64 are good games, but how are they innovative and groundbreaking in any way at all??? They didn't do anything dozens of previous games hadn't yet.

You know, it just so happens I don't buy new games. I rent on occassion, but only own a couple. I always find myself going back to the better games, which I never get tired of. See, modern games focus too much on graphics and on storyline. Plot is ok for an RPG, but when I pop in a fresh ps2 or gc rental of an "action" game, all I find are brief skirmishes occassionally breaking up the boring, idiotic, uninspired puzzles and hours of pointless backtracking. Most older games plunged you straight into adrenaline-pumping combat from the second you plugged it in, sometimes without a single interruption. That's actually a game. If I want good visuals and an engrossing plot, I'll watch a movie instead. Newer games almost always have ZERO replayability. The enemies aren't even good anymore. Instead of dozens upon dozens of bizarre, often ridiculous robots and monsters, you get maybe 5-6 different enemies per game, with only a couple noteworthy exceptions (like RPG's, which I admit have stayed the same as always, but I'm not a big rpg fan)

I also just detest how almost every company has gone entirely 3-d. It is NOT A REPLACEMENT for sprites. It's like saying CGR is a replacement for cel animation. Both look good and have different capabilities. I, however, prefer sprites, and it's not because of nostalgia..they're just prettier. Notice how many people use sprites as icons and signatures online. Polygonal models are too ugly for that once they've been taken out of their game's context.

I couldn't get into OOT or Majora's Mask at all. I didn't like the serious and mature style and am glad they switched to something more lighthearted. Haven't played windwaker yet, though.

Sketch

05-17-2003, 01:06 PM

OoT and FF7 should be on the list. They are the best of the 3D games for their series thus far. Link to the Past and FF6 are legends in their own right though and should be on the list as well.

Duke

05-17-2003, 09:54 PM

No 3-d zelda game and no final fantasy after 6 should be anywhere near this list.

Dude, Ocarina of Time is one of the best games ever made! It even beat Link's Awakening! (Which is no small feat!) I can't really speak about the Final Fantasies since I've never owned a PS One or a PS2. (GASP! SHOCK!)

They were groundbreaking for the N64. StarFox provided real speech and spectacular cut scenes (If you say StarFox's cut scenes aren't sweet, especially for its time, then you're way too jaded) onto the limited memory systems for carts. Rogue Squadron managed to fit 5x the amount of speech, a process that is still being used by Factor 5 today on pretty much all GameCube games (even Rogue Leader).

[Quote]Newer games almost always have ZERO replayability. [QUOTE]

Three words: Super Smash Brothers. That game nearly made my N64 explode (Certainly made my controllers pretty darn near worn out, and not just by the control stick). If I was still in high school, my GameCube probably would have exploded because of too much Melee.

You know, this got me thinking, where is Metroid Fusion? It was, IMO, as good as Super Metroid, and better than Metroid 1 or 2, so where is it?

[Quote]I couldn't get into OOT or Majora's Mask at all. I didn't like the serious and mature style and am glad they switched to something more lighthearted. Haven't played windwaker yet, though.

Ocarina just awed me every time I played it. I never owned Majora so I don't know all that much about it except that the Moon creeped me out. My friend spent 18 hours in my dorm room (with short breaks for eating, Samurai Jack, and .hack//SIGN) completing Wind Waker. Now he's suffering from WWW (Wind Waker Withdrawl).

Eh, you'll probably disagree with this, but this is my opinion, and it ain't changing.

Scythemantis

05-18-2003, 11:26 PM

Why is it that whenever I say "almost" or "mostly", people read it as "always" or "all"? Yes, Super Smash Bros. was fun. Like I said, almost all newer games have zero replayability. Come up with fifty or sixty more examples and then we'll talk.

Romanesque

05-19-2003, 12:05 AM

Also, redboot, on the boards I frequent "does not equal" has always been symbolized with =/= (broken equal sign). I have no idea where you got the != from...that's just plain weird!!!The != is pretty standard, actually. Common to a great number of programming languages, and it's often seen in math & science courses at many universities.I also just detest how almost every company has gone entirely 3-d. It is NOT A REPLACEMENT for sprites.They're a necessary replacement for sprites in most games. Sprites eat up texture memory like there's no tomorrow, and are ill suited to most current games. Besides, with the advent of pixel & vertex shaders, the next generation of poly-based games will exceed anything sprites could have ever done.

Sprites aren't even meaningful to displaying hand-drawn artwork in games, anymore. Much higher quality can be obtained by converting the artwork to polygons (Yes, 2D polygon models). Higher quality still can be had by storing the artwork in a vector format and tesselating at render time. While I'm not aware of anyone having tried this as the main rendering pipeline for an entire game, it's been possible for a while now. Heck, even if people stick with traditional sprites, people have been rendering them onto billboarded polygons for ages. It's faster, more efficient...

Uhh, where was I going with this? Anyway, I'd like to see more 2D games, too. However, don't diss the technology. It could be used to power the most amazing 2D games ever known, but most developers aren't interested in that. Why? Ask the consumers.

I'm not even gonna bother touching the rest of this thread... what's wrong with you people, anyway? =x

Sora Takenouchi

05-19-2003, 07:25 AM

I am right and everyone else is only right if they agree with me. I won't go into what I am right about unless I have to, but just know that I am right. So there.

Sorry, Skippy, but if Matt Wilson is wrong on occassion, then EVERYONE is wrong on occassion. ;)

Animation Otaku

05-19-2003, 01:20 PM

While insulting all modern games is just plain rediculous, I agree that Ocarina of Time sucked. In my opinion it was the worst out of all of the Zelda games. It made me ashamed to be a Zelda game, with it's unentertaining plot, lame controls, and uninspiring dungeons. They could have done so much but they chose to wait until releasing the Wind Waker to make a good 3-D version of Zelda. But saying that any Final Fantasy game after 6 is bad? What the heck? Final Fantasy 7 is one of the best RPG's ever. I can't imagine how anyone can even attempt to compare it to FF1 through FF6, they're good but they don't compare to 7. I'd put them somewhere between 8 and 9.

pabcool

05-19-2003, 03:18 PM

According to IGN, these are the Top 100 Games of All Time.

100. Pitfall
99. Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
98. Master of Orion
97. Phantasy Star II
96. Golden Axe
95. Adventure
94. Wolfenstein 3-D
93. Simcity
92. Aces of the Pacific
91. F-Zero
90. Sonic the Hedgehog

WAAAAAAAAYYY higher.

89. Virtua Tennis
88. Warcraft II
87. Wing Commander II: Vengence of the Kilrathi
86. Tomb Raider
85. Final Fantasy X
84. Kid Icarus
83. Counter-Strike
82. Battlezone
81. Discs of Tron
80. Excitebike
79. Homeworld
78. Secret of Mana
77. Baseball Stars
76. Rayman 2: The Great Escape

Higher...

75. Saturn Bomberman
74. Pilotwings
73. Galaga
72. Pokemon Red/Blue Versions
71. NCAA Football 2003
70. System Shock 2
69. Ghosts n Goblins
68. Virtua Fighter II
67. Sam and Max Hit the Road
66. Master of Magic
65. Crimson Skies
64. Shining Force II
63. Baldur's Gate
62. Herzog Zwei
61. Tobal 2
60. MechWarrior 2: 31st Century Combat
59. Advance Wars
58. Resident Evil 2
57. Star Fox

Higher...

56. Return Fire
55. Bionic Commando
54. Gunstar Heroes
53. Star Control II
52. Ultima VII: The Black Gate
51. Contra
50. Archon
49. Track & Field
48. Command & Conquer: Red Alert
47. SimCity 2000
46. Conker's Bad Fur Day
45. Alone in the Dark
44. DOOM
43. Final Fantasy III
42. NBA Jam
41. Battlefield 1942
40. Deus Ex
39. Halo: Combat Evolved

Higher...

38. Soul Calibur
37. Madden '96
36. Super Smash Bros. Melee
35. Thief II: The Metal Age
34. Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty
33. Wave Race 64

Lower...

32. Half-Life
31. Gauntlet
30. Metal Gear Solid
29. Star Wars
28. Super Mario World
27. Pirates!
26. Tecmo Bowl
25. Prince of Persia
24. Yoshi's Island: Super Mario World 2
23. Metroid Prime
22. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
21. Gran Turismo 3: A-spec
20. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
19. GoldenEye 007

Lower...

18. Grand Theft Auto III
17. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
16. NHL '94
15. Civilization 2

Lower...

14. Super Mario Kart
13. Ms. Pac-Man
12. Chrono Trigger
11. Star Wars: TIE Fighter
10. Street Fighter II
9. Final Fantasy II
8. X-COM: UFO Defense
7. StarCraft
6. Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
5. Super Mario 64

Higher...

4. Tetris
3. Super Metroid
2. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
1. Super Mario Bros. (This should be lower)

BTW: I always thought Perfect Dark was REALLY overrated.

Skiptastic

05-19-2003, 05:37 PM

BTW: I always thought Perfect Dark was REALLY overrated.

You were always an idiot. BTW, Civilization 2 was definitely where it was supposed to be. That game was my crack before Everquest was even imagined.

Killtacular

05-19-2003, 09:04 PM

I think Perfect Dark is overrated as well, and I know I'M not an idiot. 100% sure.

Skiptastic

05-19-2003, 10:06 PM

I think Perfect Dark is overrated as well, and I know I'M not an idiot. 100% sure.

Your font tells otherwise.

Listen, the really big problem with this list is that it includes PC games. Had there been no PC games, there would be a much better chance it wouldn't have sucked so hard. But it did and it did.

Amano Ginji

05-19-2003, 10:13 PM

Let me just butt in for a second.....

HOW THE HELL DID FFX GET #85? :confused:

randomguy

05-19-2003, 10:26 PM

You were always an idiot. BTW, Civilization 2 was definitely where it was supposed to be. That game was my crack before Everquest was even imagined.

He's not an idiot, Skip, as inarguably right you just might be. Perfect Dark, in my opinion, is quite overrated.

SNS

05-19-2003, 10:30 PM

How is it overrated??

NachoHat

05-20-2003, 06:49 AM

It's a pretty mediocre list but I'm too lazy to point out all the things I think are wrong with it. So, I'll just say that #54 should be 50 spaces higher and that #19 should not be on that list at all.

Bird Boy

05-20-2003, 09:15 AM

John Miles

05-20-2003, 04:02 PM

Now, kiss and make up, you two.

Skiptastic

05-21-2003, 01:25 AM

Quit the complaining here. Nobody's an idiot for having an opinion. How many times do I have to break up these fights? Honestly, you think you would've learned by now.

If you still feel the need to call people idiots, Skip, do it via PM.

-BB

BB, you're an [to be continued via PM] :p

You're right, nobody is an idiot for having an opinion. They are just idiots if they have the wrong one.

Bird Boy

05-21-2003, 07:49 AM

BB, you're an [to be continued via PM] :p

You're right, nobody is an idiot for having an opinion. They are just idiots if they have the wrong one.

LOL...oh man. I have the exact same outlook...funny stuff..

Anywho, back on topic to IGN's being idiots (errr..wrong..or something.)

-BB

DCU Bat

05-21-2003, 11:37 PM

I gotta know, How come everybody is dissin SMB? sure it's not the best game now and I love SMB3 much, much mooooooore than SMB. But keep in mind when they say best games of ALL TIME that also means best games from THAT TIME!

You have to admit, back in those days when we only had NES and was only limited to a few number of games (of course that was BEFORE SMB3). SMB was the most adictive of them all. Even now I see kids still playing it to pass the time and the same goes for Tetris, even now it's adictive enough to be ported on my cellphone.

As for the rest of the list :

FFX shouldn't even be on this list. Hey, I love FFX, Great graphic and great gameplay but it's not the best of the FF series.

I'm surprised they didn't add River City Rampage, Streets of Rage 2 and Jungle Strike!

I like Golden Axe but Streets of Rage 2 will always be way cooler than Golden Axe!

And why not putting Jungle Strike? since it was one of the greatest military simulations out on genesis...with a plot! The rest of the Strike series were okay but Jungle strike was the best!