How can DC Comics fix the Superman titles?

[James Harvey]

For a short period of time, the Superman titles were gold, with some amazing storytelling and artwork. Recently, the books have started to slip a little bit. Well...not a bit - alot. Superman is an icon, an dhis books are less than stellar. DC is starting on the right trail by trimming the line down some. What else do you want to DC do? WHo do you see on these titles? How would you fix this super mess?

[Jor-El]

DC could bring the Super-titles around in a few easy steps. Bring back Jeph Loeb
Bring back Ed McGuinness
Chain both to desks in main DC Comics officesAnd absolutely no more linkage with other titles. Leave SUPERMAN to itself. In the begining of Loeb's run, there was no linkage, as promised, but it progressed back into the habit. If the book could just be left on its own, it would never be diluted by the likes of other subpar writers or (in the case of Joe Kelly) just really really crappy writers.

[Shawn Hopkins]

Better art would help. It puts me off so much when I flip through them that I haven't bought one in a while, except for the ten cent adventure, which coupled the bad art with an even worse story. I'm not usually that shallow, but when I'm already on the fence about the book a bad manga-looking Superman is going to send me running to other titles.

[The Electric Knight]

I haven't read the Superman titles regularly for quite some time, only picking up issues here and there when they seem to perk my interests. I may be wrong in my opinion, but from what I can see, the Superman titles suffer from a severe lack of focus. Not to mention the constant 6+ issue long arcs.

I'd like to see a slightly more grounded Superman monthly, which didn't have to make gargantuan stories every couple of months to give Superman a "real challenge", or add to his tortured pshyche (ala Our Worlds at War). Jeph Loeb and Ed McGuinness are a great team, unfortunately I haven't yet read much of their run (mostly due to the crossing over between titles). I'd really like to see Greg Rucka take a stab at a monthly title too.

And, even just for novelty value, a short Kevin Smith run could rejuvenate one of the titles nicely (of course, I believe he's exclusive to Marvel now, so that probably isn't possible). And judging by how good Red Son #1 was, Mark Millar could be great on Superman.

[Mister Intensity]

Superman is a hero. Superman is an icon. It's time he is treated as such. Superman and Action shouldn't be ordinary superhero titles, they should be the book where the stakes are higher than in any other books. There should be a sense of meance in every issue. Superman should be facing the strongest, the smartest, the most powerful threats possible. Superman should also be concerned with larger issues. Some of the most memorable recent issues have been where he tackled some type of real-world type problem within a superhero allogory. The stories should simply be more iconic, not just the run of the mill stuff you could find in other titles.

There's a reason why he's SUPERMAN. It is time he is treated as such.

Mister Intensity

[Dee]

The last time I bothered to even pick up a superman comic was when they had a VERY edgy look to superman. My mom was actually the one to bring it home because they started carrying the comics in the magazine section of the pharmacy she works at. He had some weird costume and if memory serves me, there were 2 supermans... but that was a while back.

really, I'd love to see a classic old school superman. It's what I'm used to seeing and he doesn't need to be all flashy and edgy to be cool. I've got a place in my heart for the classics (I complained about the change of Wonder Woman a bit back lol).

[Mad Monkey 7]

Joe Kelly is a not bad writer, he write one of the best Superman stories " What So Funny About Truth, Justice, And The America Way". Sure, Kelly has had a lot of misses with the fans on JLA and as well as some his latest Superman works but he is still a good writer, he just needs to take a break.

I say let Kelly retired for a while, get Waid and Geoff Johns on aboard. Personally I think that Clark and Lois having a baby would be a wonderful idea to make Superman more human in nature and less of a god. Every father worries about his children, it think about what Superman must feel if he now had to protect the world, his wife, and his child. How would he find time to spend with him/her? Yes, I have seen Kevin Smith's "Mall Rats" and I know some of you think that Lois and Clark can have a baby. It think is probably. Sure, it would look like a comic stunt to boost sale, but in reality this will allow the character develop more.

Supposely Chris Claramount and John Bryne are taking over JLA from Kelly.

[Jor-El]

The last time I bothered to even pick up a superman comic was when they had a VERY edgy look to superman. My mom was actually the one to bring it home because they started carrying the comics in the magazine section of the pharmacy she works at. He had some weird costume and if memory serves me, there were 2 supermans... but that was a while back.

really, I'd love to see a classic old school superman. It's what I'm used to seeing and he doesn't need to be all flashy and edgy to be cool. I've got a place in my heart for the classics (I complained about the change of Wonder Woman a bit back lol).You're talking about stuff that happened 5 years ago. He's back to being classic Superman.


Supposely Chris Claramount and John Bryne are taking over JLA from Kelly.My understanding is that this is not a permanent switch. It's just going to be a story and then Joe Kelly goes back to having the reins.

Either way, we lose.

[kid_flash]

Seems like we have this discussion every few months. Put Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo, Grant Morrison and Howard Porter, Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch, and Jeph Loeb and MC2 on creative team and let them go wild. In the end, you'll have your Superman.

[PeterFries]

Seems like we have this discussion every few months. Put Mark Waid and Mike Weiringo, Grant Morrison and Howard Porter, Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch, and Jeph Loeb and MC2 on creative team and let them go wild. In the end, you'll have your Superman.

Agreed -- Superman is one of my favorite characters ever, yet I haven't picked up an issue of any of his regular series since about a year and a half after the John Byrne retcon. All your suggested creators would be great.

I'd also love to see Warren Ellis write Superman, because I want to see him go against his own grain and work out a solution to all his problems with the character.

[Stu]

Being that most things practised on Batman, if sucessfull usually move go on to Superman I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee on Superman soon. Their Batman book 'Hush' is selling well and I personnaly am enjoying it. On these boards I seem to be one of a few.

Hell if they made it a decent pick up point I'd buy it. Until then lets see if we can get Tim Sale to come along.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

I read something in the "Summer Movie" preview of Entertainment Weekly, where they compared the monthly Superman title with Mark Millar's "Red Son." The short version was that the "Red Son" Superman had no compunctions with taking rather drastic action, while the "normal" Superman imposes an artificial limit on himself that "human problems should have human solutions rather than superhuman ones." This made "Red Son" edgy and interesting, and Superman incredibly boring.

To me, I think that sums up the biggest problem with Superman these days. He's slipping increasingly into irrelevance by refusing to get involved in human problems. I think using Superman to talk about the ethical use of truly overwhelming power is something worth talking about these days. Yeah, it may rock the boat a little, but I don't think playing it safe is winning them many readers these days.

I also don't think very many comic characters can sustain more than 2 books, let alone 4. Keep the two oldest and dump the rest.

Lastly, I think they need to get some fresh editorial ideas in there. The 10-cent adventure was diverting, but utterly failed to get me interested in the storyline.

-- Ed/Ace

[Jor-El]

I also don't think very many comic characters can sustain more than 2 books, let alone 4. Keep the two oldest and dump the rest.

Lastly, I think they need to get some fresh editorial ideas in there. The 10-cent adventure was diverting, but utterly failed to get me interested in the storyline.The problem is that of the three titles that Superman currently has (MAN OF STEEL has already been canceled,) the youngest title is actually SUPERMAN if you can believe it. ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN was named such around the time of the Byrne reboot, but it is actually a continuation of the numbering of SUPERMAN (Vol 1.) If we got rid of the youngest title, we'd have ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN and ACTION COMICS, unless you also suggest renaming ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN back to SUPERMAN. However, I'm now just being a real nitpicker. :)

And you're right about the 10¢ ADVENTURE. It was actually decent in comparison to the Superman books that had been coming out, but compared to Superman books under the earliest days of Jeph Loeb and Ed McGuinness (and even my nemesis, Joe Kelly and artists German Garcia and then Kano) it was nothing and very uninvolving. The 10¢ ADVENTURE should have accomplished a full story in one issue to give readers a fresh taste of Superman. It failed at this.

[Batman49]

Here's my thoughts on creative teams for the 3 Superman titles.

Bring back Loeb and MC2. Although the Superman/Batman book is something I am really looking forward to, I'd rather they hadn't ended their run on Superman.

Geoff Johns and Greg Land. I was sad when Greg Land left Nightwing and went to CrossGen and Geoff Johns belongs on a Superman book.

Mark Waid and Bryan Hitch. Waid has been itching to write Supes for a long time. Give him one of the regular titles already.

And since I know Geoff Johns likes second tier characters and already writes a lot of books, I would have Morrison replace him if Johns couldn't do it. Hell just make it 4 books with Morrison writing it and Jim Lee doing the art. Maybe this team and the Waid team will get Superman in the top 2 slots, which I wouldn't mind seeing.

Editorially, I'd just like them to let the writers write. I'm more into story than art anyway so just let the writers WOW me again. Also no linking the books together.

Well those are my dream teams more or less. I have other writers and artists I'd love to see but I think these choices would do just fine.

[Dadiomov]

Superman is so screwed up and boring now it makes me sad. Anything less than Waid and Morrison will not get Supes on track.

[Matthew Williams]

Suggestions from a warped, first-time poster here, who hasn't read Supes since... well, Doomsday...

Give the titles a distinct focus and keep them separate, above all. No more "THIS WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING" storylines.

Make Action Comics just that-- Action Comics. Traditional superheroic exploits. Half the potential of Superman is that he is insanely powerful, so exploit that. This screams Geoff Johns, but if you want a more "moviesque" feel, get Millar if/when he's available.

Superman should be scaled down to focus more on Superman the person. Yes, there's battles but a more intense personal focus on his life and his beliefs. For some reason, I think Judd Winick would be a good fit for this book, even tho I haven't read much of his stuff. If you want the quirky factor, get Kevin Smith if you can.

Adventures of Superman should be cancelled or converted into a "Metropolis" title. A "fringe" title, rotating creators, focusing more on tales with Supes' supporting cast, exploiting every facet of the city's inhabitants.

For art... NO MORE MANGA STYLE. Art is a bit more down to earth than that, no exaggerations of Superman's character. For some reason I'd like to see someone like Alan Davis or a good "superhero" artist on Action(I'd LOVE Perez, but that's out of the question... damn crossgen...), and someone more "down to earth" like Immonen or even Mike McKone(he has done a lot of more comedic stuff, but some of his more dramatic stuff is incredible).

The character needs to be redefined, so no more "man-made problems" crap. One of the comics, or perhaps a mini, should establish a new status quo with Superman becoming more involved with world affairs and re-establishing himself as a "hands-on" superhero. Redefine the hero for these times. I'd also retcon the "city of tomorrow" idea for Metropolis... I'm not keen on it because Superman is supposed to be an icon for today's people, yet he's doing his work in a stylized city of the future. Metropolis has to differ from Gotham, yes, but not that different.

[wrenchien]

I dunno if superman needs fixing.. some pretty interesting stuff i've read, especially concerning zod and the hollow men...

Also, if they've got the guts to actually revamp mxylptlk into twins who actually dress in suits (and one of them is female!) they've got to be on the right path.. he's not really been changed much , attire wise, in his entire existence, not even pernamently during that whole emperor joker thing, or during that death of myxpltlk, or even that final story showing how superman ends where myxpltlk is the ultimate enemy and his true form was a purple monster (and even that wasn't official cannon as pertains to the prime universe)...

Superman is fine, it's myxtlpthlk (or whatever his name is spelled) that needed the fixing, and by god, he's getting it. :D

[Mattashell]

Longtime fans still complain about the effects of Crisis, and they have a right to. I've read alot of old Suprman stuff, and while it is corny as all heck it weaves a beutiful fantasy backdrop. DC had the opportunity to bring Superman into a world of modern more grown up writing, but in thier attempt to get rid of what was wrong with it, they got rid of everything that was right as well.

I count myself among the many that feel this guy just isn't Superman. His name is Kal-El. His alias is Clark Kent. He's from a place called Krypton. People close to him are calle Lois, Jimmy and Perry. Yet he still feels like an imposter to me. I don't think fixing things is as simple as picking the right creative team. Any team you put on the book is ultimately temporary.

1) What we need is to ditch alot of this pseudo-science in favor of fantasy. Superman's powers should never be explained. If I have all these statistics and details, he can't impress me as much as simply being invulnerable and able to fly etc.

2) Cut out all the nameless hordes of forgettable aliens. I'm sick of seeing Superman engaged in fisticuffs with a throwaway character. It seems like today, anyone from space can match Superman's power, which doesn't make him very Super. It just makes humans look weak.

3) Bring back elements of the Silver-Age mythos. Modernize them, keep them fresh and look for new and more adult angles on them, but don't just ditch them altogether.

[Mad Monkey 7]

How can DC fix Superman easy, Lois and Clark can have children. It is kind of being explore in the current Superman, with the new Super-Girl. I think that it would be more interesting if Lois went through whole 9 months and had a half Kryptontian/human child or twins. Thoughts?


Hey, it better than making lost his power and gain new power such as energy then turn into two version of himsel, Superman Red and Superman Blue. I take that back, bringing back Beppo the Super Monkey would be so much better than all of this. Who wouldn't buy a Superman comic now that he has a pet monkey and dog. :bosko:

[Anthonynotes]

I dunno if superman needs fixing.. some pretty interesting stuff i've read, especially concerning zod and the hollow men...

Also, if they've got the guts to actually revamp mxylptlk into twins who actually dress in suits (and one of them is female!) they've got to be on the right path.. he's not really been changed much , attire wise, in his entire existence, not even pernamently during that whole emperor joker thing, or during that death of myxpltlk, or even that final story showing how superman ends where myxpltlk is the ultimate enemy and his true form was a purple monster (and even that wasn't official cannon as pertains to the prime universe)...

Superman is fine, it's myxtlpthlk (or whatever his name is spelled) that needed the fixing, and by god, he's getting it. :D

Actually, Mxy has changed since his debut way back when in 1944----when he first appeared, his name was spelled Mxyztplk (vs. today's Mxyzptlk), and he wore a purple tuxedo instead of the orange space-suit thing (basically, the same design you see on SUperman:TAS). The modern name-spelling/orange jumpsuit came along in the mid-50's...

Re: pre-Crisis elements: guess I'd have to agree (that the current guy doesn't "feel" like the "real" Supes to me admist the various changes)...though the Animated version seems closer in his background elements to the Silver Age Superman than anything. Long as we're making idle, wallowing-in-nostalgia wishes, I'd like to see his Superboy career brought back (complete with costume, public knowledge of his existence, and all---none of this "Smallville" stuff!). ;-)

-B.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

Just to throw some gas on the fire, there's an interview with Mark Waid by Gail Simone about Superman: Birthright (http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=001033) over on comicon.com's Pulse news website. There's already a lively, er, "discussion" over continuity vs. storytelling as a result.

-- Ed/Ace

[adoptedBatpuppy]

I simply think, one Creative Team should work on Superman. When there are different Creative Teams for Cartoon Series and Comic Books, the story changes, the animation changes, characters change, Superman is not the same as he was drawn before. Just everything chenges in general. It also depends if you like the change! :rolleyes:

[KuwabaraTheMan]

And you needed to revive a two year old thread to assert that belief?

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

Attempting to make lemonade from lemons, did DC "fix" Superman? Is he better? Worse? The same? Didn't care then and still don't?

That being said, please don't resurrect ancient threads for this kind of thing as a habit.

Go.

-- Ed/Ace

[Spider-Man]

Not to sound like a broken record but the comic writers should look toward the cartoon series to see what they can learn from it. I suppose that is easier said than done since the comics have a more complicated history to get into. But what about the new creative teams starting in May? How would they be rated?

Superman - Written by Mark Verheiden; Art and cover by Ed Benes

Action Comics - Written by Gail Simone; Art by John Byrne and Nelson

Adventures of Superman - Written by Greg Rucka; Art by Karl Kerschl

[Damien]

I've felt for a long time that Superman is a remarkable character trapped in unremarkable adventures. I tried to get back into some Superman, but almost everytime I pick up a new issue, I'm lost as to what's going on. I don't want to go broken record on this thread, so I'll just say he definately needs a pick-me-up.
I also, real quick, have to disagree with having Loeb on board. He's had some good stuff, but some recent little copouts have been unsettling me a bit.