The Drawing Board Workshops Technical Question Thread [Archive]

Spidey2099

05-02-2003, 01:23 AM

I've been wondering why I'm having so much trouble uploading certain animation files to my MSN members site, and the reason is because I am only allowed to upload files no bigger than 1 MB. This is a problem for me, because the Batman Beyond project that I'm working on is gonna be soooo much larger than 1 megabyte (the scene I just finished is almost 4 MB alone).

So, I'm wondering what websites would allow me to show mini-movies (without a fee, of course). How's the portfolio thing on the Drawing Board? If it's up and running, would it let me upload such large files?

Another option I have thought about is using WinZip. I'm about to purchase the software, but I have no idea how well it will let me compress such large files to fit within MSN's 1 MB limit. Is WinZip the way to go in my situation?

TimTwoFace

05-02-2003, 02:38 AM

...I've never seen my pics lose quality when changing a JPG to a BMP, but when it's the other way around, you betcha.

WHYYYYYYY!? :(

*KICKS COMPUTER*

-Tim

Ikwig

05-02-2003, 09:55 AM

...I've never seen my pics lose quality when changing a JPG to a BMP, but when it's the other way around, you betcha.

WHYYYYYYY!? :(

*KICKS COMPUTER*

-Tim

Not being a computer expert, I can't give you the technical reason; but JPGs take up a lot less space than BMPs, so it makes sense that you're going to lose some information when switching from BMP to JPG. Of course, if the pic was originally a JPG and you switch to BMP, you're basically just giving the pic that much more space so you shouldn't lose any info.

This is all based on observation, so anyone with a better answer should definitely give it!:D

SilverKnight

05-02-2003, 10:19 AM

I'm no computer expert, either, but I do know that as Ikwig said, JPG's offer the same color resolution of a BMP without the file size, so there's bound to be some pixellation. Besides, if you use MS Paint to convert files from BMP to JPG, the pixellation will be worse than usual. MS Paint seems to have some built-in command to give your picture the lowest-quality conversion as possible. If you want your pic to be JPG and get the highest quality, you should probably use Photoshop or PSP and save it has a high quality pic. If not that, than a photo-editing program of some sort will do.

>ahem< Anyway.

James

05-02-2003, 04:20 PM

I recall when Paint only ran off Bitmaps.. and I didn't have PSP or PS.. I went to www.softseek.com (http://www.softseek.com) and found a free utility which would do the exchange for me to JPG. JPGs are compressed net files, hence their size. I stay clear from Bitmaps.. Monsters.. all of them!

Outlander00

05-02-2003, 04:42 PM

i suck at drawing hands just had to say that part and anyone have any good ways of coloring like types of paint?

Best suggestion I can give you, eds, is to just practice drawing your own repeatedly in different poses.

As far as paint, the best thing to start out with is acrylics. You get the ability to mix colors and are fuild, yet they dry fast... which allows you to paint over something you screwed up.

I've been wondering why I'm having so much trouble uploading certain animation files to my MSN members site, and the reason is because I am only allowed to upload files no bigger than 1 MB. This is a problem for me, because the Batman Beyond project that I'm working on is gonna be soooo much larger than 1 megabyte (the scene I just finished is almost 4 MB alone).

So, I'm wondering what websites would allow me to show mini-movies (without a fee, of course). How's the portfolio thing on the Drawing Board? If it's up and running, would it let me upload such large files?

Another option I have thought about is using WinZip. I'm about to purchase the software, but I have no idea how well it will let me compress such large files to fit within MSN's 1 MB limit. Is WinZip the way to go in my situation?

there arent too many, other than Geocities and Angelfire... ty with your ISP also spidey. You may have space that came with you account that you can use.

Roman Legion

05-02-2003, 05:36 PM

JPGs are compressed net files, hence their size. I stay clear from Bitmaps.. Monsters.. all of them!Doesn't sound like a great idea, personally. Especially while you're still working on a file. You end up compressing the compressed artifacts multiple times. Bleh. With higher resolutions, they load significantly slower, too. What's so monstrous about a bitmap? Especially when disk space goes for a dollar per gig these days... =x

For those of you who don't mind a bit of math, here's a semi-decent jpeg reference... http://www.cs.und.edu/~mschroed/jpeg.html

--Romey

James

05-02-2003, 06:50 PM

ooo, nasty complicated article.

Personally i have no issue with JPEG. Resolution on print outs and on web images has always been fine for me. Okay, so technically it's not the best, but it's fuctional, easy to transfer between parties and doesn't eat into disk space.

If I was doing a serious piece of work for a employer I'd consider another format, but Jpg work well at the level I operate on - especially for the DB.

The only warning I will add to JPG is those using PS on a network, because of the extensive data compression that PS operates on JPGs, I've found that the transfers times out on some networked printers. PSP has no problem like this and works everytime.. PS and JPG are not a harmonious combination in my experience.. :)

Salvor

05-02-2003, 07:11 PM

For those of you who don't mind a bit of math, here's a semi-decent jpeg reference... http://www.cs.und.edu/~mschroed/jpeg.html

--Romey
:eek: :eek: God! My eyes! My eyes!

;)

Very complicated article indeed.

SilverKnight

05-02-2003, 10:56 PM

Outlander00

05-02-2003, 11:19 PM

I save all my pics as JPG files. But, only in the final product. I don't save as JPG over and over again, because I know that's the quickest way to make your pic look like crap, but BMP's are much too large to use in final product pictures.

>rambles< Anyway.

Ill take it one step further for you, SK :D

JPEG's and PNG's are what they called "losey" file formats, which means everytime you open it (whether to edit or view) it'll lose some data to it and eventually will become corrupt. "Loseless" file types are archive type file formats that do not lose data with every opening. "Looseless" formats include .gif, .tif, .eps, and .bmp (how its formatted is the reason why its so high on the storage space).

Roman Legion

05-03-2003, 12:17 AM

Ill take it one step further for you, SK :D

JPEG's and PNG's are what they called "losey" file formats, which means everytime you open it (whether to edit or view) it'll lose some data to it and eventually will become corrupt. "Loseless" file types are archive type file formats that do not lose data with every opening. "Looseless" formats include .gif, .tif, .eps, and .bmp (how its formatted is the reason why its so high on the storage space).Aaaalmost correct, but not quite.

First off, we've got some terminology confusion. 'Lossy' and 'lossless' only make sense when describing compressed image files. Bitmaps are uncompressed, so calling them 'lossless' is redundant. Standard PNG's are compressed, but they're also lossless, though a few lossy implementations exist. Tiff's exist in both uncompressed and lossy compressed forms. EPS (Encapsulated PostScript) files are vector-based, so they're pretty much irrelevant when it comes to saving raster-based images.

--Romey

Spidey2099

05-03-2003, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Outlander00:
there arent too many, other than Geocities and Angelfire... ty with your ISP also spidey. You may have space that came with you account that you can use.

If you mean the extra 30 MB that comes with my membership, then nope, it has the same 1 MB upload rule too. However.....

...thank you ever so much for the Angelfire idea! I was just moping around on the site, when I stumbled on this web page that gives helpful instructions about codec compression and video tutorials for the web!

*runs off to experiment with codec*

Outlander00

05-03-2003, 10:17 AM

Aaaalmost correct, but not quite.

First off, we've got some terminology confusion. 'Lossy' and 'lossless' only make sense when describing compressed image files. Bitmaps are uncompressed, so calling them 'lossless' is redundant. Standard PNG's are compressed, but they're also lossless, though a few lossy implementations exist. Tiff's exist in both uncompressed and lossy compressed forms. EPS (Encapsulated PostScript) files are vector-based, so they're pretty much irrelevant when it comes to saving raster-based images.

--Romey

*bows to Romey's superior knowledge* :D

Shows how well I listen in my CG class when he talked about it... Then again that was three years ago... :p

Thank you for the assist Romey :)

James

05-04-2003, 04:06 PM

Yeah - bug Romey on this one, Romey knows way too much on this subject and needs to be asked constant questions to prevent that technical brain from collapsing under the weight of such intense knowledge and slipping out of it's skull..

That's why i prefer to remain clueness.. safer.. :)

skite

05-06-2003, 09:52 PM

Best suggestion I can give you, eds, is to just practice drawing your own repeatedly in different poses.

As far as paint, the best thing to start out with is acrylics. You get the ability to mix colors and are fuild, yet they dry fast... which allows you to paint over something you screwed up.

there arent too many, other than Geocities and Angelfire... ty with your ISP also spidey. You may have space that came with you account that you can use.
ill try to find some of those:D

James

05-07-2003, 08:32 PM

Roman Legion

05-08-2003, 02:28 PM

Anyone know what benefits Illustrator has over Photoshop for cleaning up work? My tutor suggested using Illustrator instead, but in what way that is better than PS in cleaning lines etc I don't know. Not familar with the package. I have it, but some advice would be cool!Illustrator is primarily vector based, while Photoshop is primarily raster based. For the most part, Illustrator is horribly suited for doing general clean up work, because is it isn't meant to handle pixels. The only case in which Illustrator pulls ahead is if you're retracing lines from scratch, in which case Illustrator leaves Photoshop's paths in the dust. But again, Illustrator's really no good for cleaning up lines that you've already traced.

--Romey

James

05-09-2003, 09:53 AM

Illustrator is primarily vector based, while Photoshop is primarily raster based. For the most part, Illustrator is horribly suited for doing general clean up work, because is it isn't meant to handle pixels. The only case in which Illustrator pulls ahead is if you're retracing lines from scratch, in which case Illustrator leaves Photoshop's paths in the dust. But again, Illustrator's really no good for cleaning up lines that you've already traced.

--Romey

So would you suggest for line work scanning into illustrator, rather than PS, and then colouring in PS?

Roman Legion

05-09-2003, 02:28 PM

So would you suggest for line work scanning into illustrator, rather than PS, and then colouring in PS?I find the best way to do things is to clean up the scan in Photoshop, then import the result into Illustrator for tracing. If the scan's good enough, you could go directly to Illustrator, but I usually don't bother. Then there's more to the Illustrator step than just tracing. You can get even better results by converting your lines to filled-areas, and tweaking stuff like line thickness and joints where lines meet.

Whether or not you want to color the results in Photoshop is gonna depend on what kind of coloring you're planning. If you want to airbrush it, texture it, or use lots of layers & filters, then obviously Photoshop's the way to go. However, if you're doing something that needs a tradition cel shaded look, like this...

http://www.toonzone.net/romey/temp/newbilliefinal_sm.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/romey/temp/newbilliefinal.jpg)

...with minor filtering afterward, then you're better off just keeping it in Illustrator until the very end.

--Romey

James

05-09-2003, 05:41 PM

Sorry Romey, going to seriously pic your brains on this one. Just for those ignorant people {lalalala] - what is tracing in the context of Illustrator, is it as literal as it sounds?

James

05-10-2003, 01:06 AM

Second question: I'm doing some work for a company and they want the final image sent to be Mac compatiable.. what format do you reckon would be the most professional to use? Open floor on this one! I need to make sure I can pull this off!

Roman Legion

05-10-2003, 01:09 AM

Sorry Romey, going to seriously pic your brains on this one. Just for those ignorant people {lalalala] - what is tracing in the context of Illustrator, is it as literal as it sounds?Tracing in Illustrator can be as literal as it sounds, yes. You can simply follow your scanned roughs by hand, and Illustrator will automatically make nice, smooth lines for you. However, it's rather tricky with a mouse, and even with a tablet, you won't have direct control over how the curves are generated, so you'll still have to go back and manually edit your points in places.

Usually, I like to have complete control over things from the beginning, so I use the pen tool (analogous to the same thing in Photoshop), to mark out my curves one segment at a time. Here's a lovely pic of Billie in progress to demonstrate...

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1q8vj/demo/illustrator_demo1_sm.jpg (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1q8vj/demo/illustrator_demo1.jpg)

Every line segment has two anchor points, one at each end, and two control points, between the anchor points. The anchor points always touch the line, while the control points don't. Basically, it's a Bezier curve. Adobe might use slightly different terminology, and the splines might be internally calculated in a number of different ways, but the basic concepts are all the same.

Now, in the pic above, you can only see three edit points (one anchor and two control points), but the fourth one's still there, off the left side of the screen. Pretend it's there. :D Ya move those things around, and the curve follows. For longer lines, the segments get linked together, sharing anchor points where they meet. One anchor point, two control points, one anchor point, two control points, etc.

If an unbroken line (joined at both ends with no gaps) contains an enclosed area, you can either display the line as the usual line, or you can display it as... yep, a filled area. Very usefull for doing quick fills of areas you've traced around. Even if you plan on exporting to Photoshop afterward, making layers for these areas is a nice quick way of generating masks for painting stuff in.

Since drawn lines have thickness, you can also automatically trace the outline of a line, to change the thickness of lines you're tracing.

http://www.toonzone.net/romey/temp/newbilliefinal_sm.jpg (http://www.toonzone.net/romey/temp/newbilliefinal.jpg)

That's what I did to make every line end in a fine point in the final version (compare to the rounded ends in the working version), to give the lines a more natural "hand inked" look. If I wanted, I could have gone so far as to fatten the middle of each line to enhance the effect, but I liked the evenly drawn look as it was.

I'll throw in the initial sketch and work in progress, as an added bonus. :D

Initial Sketch (http://www.toonzone.net/romey/temp/newbillie.gif)

Sketching the Arms In (http://www.toonzone.net/romey/temp/newbillie2.gif)

Laying Out Colors (http://www.toonzone.net/romey/temp/newbillie3.gif)
Second question: I'm doing some work for a company and they want the final image sent to be Mac compatiable.. what format do you reckon would be the most professional to use? Open floor on this one! I need to make sure I can pull this off!Heh, screw the... ehm... sorry, personal opinion getting in the way. Had to use a Mac in a class a couple years back and hated every minute of it. Anyway, trying to be helpful... what kind of work are we talking? Vector, raster, etc. I'm assuming the 'final image' if raster, doesn't include any layers or such stuff... PSD's and AI files sometimes have problems going back and forth between PC's and Macs, but I don't know how that stands with the latest versions of Photoshop & Illustrator. I know some people who swear by uncompressed tiffs, but not using them much, I don't have any first-hand experience there...

I'll leave this one for the next person. ;-)

--Romey

James

05-10-2003, 02:11 AM

:DHeh, screw the... ehm... sorry, personal opinion getting in the way. Had to use a Mac in a class a couple years back and hated every minute of it. Anyway, trying to be helpful... what kind of work are we talking? Vector, raster, etc. I'm assuming the 'final image' if raster, doesn't include any layers or such stuff... PSD's and AI files sometimes have problems going back and forth between PC's and Macs, but I don't know how that stands with the latest versions of Photoshop & Illustrator. I know some people who swear by uncompressed tiffs, but not using them much, I don't have any first-hand experience there...

Well Tiffs are okay with me. Yeah for this it will be raster, and they've not said about wanting it layered. I'll see what format they're after.. not used Tiffs much myself.. anyone else.. making me feel better though.. if only my course hadn't finished yesterday I could have asked my tutors.. ... curses...

Outlander00

05-10-2003, 02:39 AM

Well Tiffs are okay with me. Yeah for this it will be raster, and they've not said about wanting it layered. I'll see what format they're after.. not used Tiffs much myself.. anyone else.. making me feel better though.. if only my course hadn't finished yesterday I could have asked my tutors.. ... curses...

Usually tiffs, psd's and Photoshop eps's are probably the best that can work crossed platform (windows and mac). with those file formats it doesnt matter what platform its on. The same goes for ai's and Illustrator eps's for vector based programs (Adobe has done very well the past few years as far as resolving platform issues).

Hope that helps :D

James

05-10-2003, 10:29 AM

Thanks! I'll probably use photoshop for this one rather than go into illustrator which is still relatively new to me. Appreciate the help buds.. if anyone has any further points I'm all ears (regardless of what my avatar suggests...)

The Detective

05-11-2003, 08:15 PM

If I'm scanning an image to upload to the internet should I use GIF or JPEG? And if I'm just scanning an image to color and print what should I save it as?

Which leads to my next question...I see a lot of peopel with art that has been coloured on the computer. What program do you use to get it good looking? I may just be not doing it right but I've been using photoshop and it doesn't look as professional.

Roman Legion

05-12-2003, 11:32 PM

If I'm scanning an image to upload to the internet should I use GIF or JPEG? And if I'm just scanning an image to color and print what should I save it as?GIF or JPEG, the eternal question. It depends on the image. Some images are going to work better as GIF's, while others work better as JPEG's. I could get all technical, but y'know what? Once you know how each format behaves (GIF's are only 256 color, JPEG's can look 'dirty' if overcompressed), the only way to learn is to play around with both until you find a quality to file size ratio that you're satisfied with.

Stuff to scan & print... oh, the choices. If it's something you want to keep for archival purposes, to make reprints of in the distant future, I'd stick to bitmaps, because you never know what you might need that good old uncompressed quality for. For general purposes (and for giant collections of scans), saving as a JPEG with the lowest compression -- after you've done all the editing to the scan that you desire -- should be ok.
Which leads to my next question...I see a lot of peopel with art that has been coloured on the computer. What program do you use to get it good looking? I may just be not doing it right but I've been using photoshop and it doesn't look as professional.Either Photoshop, Illustrator, or an equivalent like GIMP is really all there is to it. The only secrets are knowledge of your software, practice, and individual technique.

Romey
--I should write up a tutorial on this stuff, eventually... which is easily gonna need its own thread.

The Detective

05-13-2003, 10:22 PM

Yeah I think I'm getting better at colouring with Photoshop. My very first one was so pixelized it wasn't even funny but I'm getting bettter. I'll post up some exapmles if I ever find an image hosting site that's decent. (actually since they are Amber Quinman designs for a later story arc Stowrm might get mad at me ;) )

James

05-18-2003, 04:38 PM

Roman Legion

05-18-2003, 06:05 PM

Would it be better to keep - while in Photoshop - all work as PSD - especially when altering the image? I noticed on my DKA work for issue 1 bad compression and not sure when I did it - I'm guessing I must have saved a piece of work as a JPG on PS, opened it later and altered the size. I'm assuming the quality on a PSD file remains good.. this is an obvious question, but I'm trying to go back to basics as I've been picking up some bad habits!When working in Photoshop, always always always keep your 'working copy' in PSD. Always. Even when you think you're finished, keep a copy of the original PSD around for backup purposes. You never know when you'll decide you want to go back and tweak something, afterward...

If you absolutely have to save a seperate flattened image (other than the final copy) that you still plan to work on, you can get away with a bitmap or another uncompressed / lossless format, but since continued work implies the use of more layers afterward... you might as well stick with PSD right up until the end.

--Romey

James

05-18-2003, 07:19 PM

When working in Photoshop, always always always keep your 'working copy' in PSD. Always. Even when you think you're finished, keep a copy of the original PSD around for backup purposes. You never know when you'll decide you want to go back and tweak something, afterward...

If you absolutely have to save a seperate flattened image (other than the final copy) that you still plan to work on, you can get away with a bitmap or another uncompressed / lossless format, but since continued work implies the use of more layers afterward... you might as well stick with PSD right up until the end.

--Romey

Cool. Wondered, sometimes I do flatten as ther layer is irrelevant and when save I've saved as JPEG to save space, but I'll keep to BMP and PSD formats... dirty habits... :P

wriggle

05-18-2003, 11:28 PM

Outlander00

05-21-2003, 06:33 PM

Hi, I was wondering, how you get your picture to show up straight onto the Board. Like how Delia does it and SK and others. I have internet sites that host the pic, and normally I just post the link and leave it at that.
But I was wondering how they managed to get it to show up like that. Can anyone explain? :)

Sorry about the long pause, Wriggle...

First, you need to upload the picture to whatever server you are using and get its URL (the exact adress on how the pic comes up from that server). Best way is to right click on the pic when its uploaded to Angelfire or whatever your using as a server, select properties and copy the URL that is listed for its location.

Next, click on the little picture icon above when you post a reply. Paste the URL in that line, and thats it!

example...

http://pratt.edu/~jstone/Magneto-sketch.jpg

When you post the image, the code/adress of the above should look like this (just include a [ at the beginning of the following string):

IMG]http://pratt.edu/~jstone/Magneto-sketch.jpg[/IMG]

wriggle

05-26-2003, 03:17 PM

Okay, thanks. I'll have to give that a go! You're very helpful ;)

Tee hee... It's Magneto... Whoops sorry... Got a little carried away there!

The Detective

05-26-2003, 05:59 PM

James

05-31-2003, 01:03 PM

I know Bic uses PC drawing tablets - anyone got a run down on them? The dos and don'ts. What to look for/brand names? Ta!

Outlander00

06-02-2003, 05:17 PM

The most popular is Wacom, because of their reliability and uses. But there are others, like Fujitsu and Intuos, but never used those.

Bic

06-04-2003, 11:33 PM

Concerning PhotoShop, I used it from PS 3.02 to 7.0 (and all the steps in between) though I only know about 20-30% of the features and such (I fear the channels and and know nothing about the pen tool). A couple of steps I recommend are:

Save often. (I usually do about every ten minutes or before I experiment with filters and such.)
Work 2-3x larger than the size you're going to post. For example, if your image for the web is going to be 500 pixels in height, then you'd want a working area of 1000-1500 pixels in height. Of course this requires more memory or hard disk space, but it will give you more control over your project.
For more precise or organic control over your pointer, a graphics tablet is a must. However, if cost is a factor, use an optical mouse instead of a regular ball mouse, it gives you greater control then the regular mouse - and can improve your mad FPS skills, ta boot.
Don't be afraid of the program. :)
A more advanced tip... If you have windows machine with a second Hard Drive or a second partition on your current Hard Drive, use space on that for PhotoShop's Scratch Disk. (Windows scratch disk and PS scratch disk don't like each other, so it's best to seperate them if possible.)

If you're going to use any paint program, one of the best things to make it preform better is to add memory. For example, with a lot of memory, PhotoShop acts like a pig in mud. :D

About Graphics Tablets:

I use a Wacom Intuos 12x12 Serial tablet myself, it's a tad big for my tatse, but necessary for the CG images I do. I've used my friends 4x5 USB Intuos and that works great as well, though it felt too small for me. The hardest thing to get used to where graphics tablets are concered, is to not watch your hand when you draw/ink/color. Instead you have to watch the cursor.

Hope that helps!

Nightflower

06-05-2003, 10:58 AM

The most popular is Wacom, because of their reliability and uses. But there are others, like Fujitsu and Intuos, but never used those.
Intuos is Wacom. :)

They're fairly expensive, so the Graphire line is a good alternative too (The cute little ones that have the same color as imacs). I've got a teal one. I think they're usually the size of a mouse pad. It's been said that Graphire is recommended to the general computer user who won't need to use it a lot for professional work, like video editing, or something.

For more information, go here:

http://www.myst.org/ttablets.html

(I am Links Girl, baby)

Outlander00

06-05-2003, 12:20 PM

Intuos is Wacom. :)

ACK! My mistake. I was not aware of that... You learn something new everyday. :)

I bow to your knowledge, Link girl :D

(hey, you can come up with a character out of that... much like the markers pic, it was so cute :D)

The Detective

06-05-2003, 03:22 PM

Someone please tell me, how do you ink in Photoshop? I don't know how but I must know!

~DK~

James

06-05-2003, 05:27 PM

The Detective

06-05-2003, 06:33 PM

I think unless you have a tablet as Bic and NF describe above, it's best to ink with a pen and then scan into PS.

You could what I do with DKA and thats ink basic outlines and areas, scan it and then lasso areas that you require to be be full back/greys. You can get interesting effects with this method.

Adjust the brightness/contrast to strengthen the line quality.
Okay...my main problem is that my inked lines don't show up all that well which causes overall image appearance to suffer somewhat. I've tried a couple filters but nothing has worked that much. I'll try adjusting like you said and see what I can come up with.

James

06-05-2003, 07:16 PM

Okay...my main problem is that my inked lines don't show up all that well which causes overall image appearance to suffer somewhat. I've tried a couple filters but nothing has worked that much. I'll try adjusting like you said and see what I can come up with.

Fiddle with the brightness/contrast - trust me, they can make biro on lined paper come up strong - and the brightness will kill the lines on the paper too!

Roman Legion

06-05-2003, 09:10 PM

Someone please tell me, how do you ink in Photoshop? I don't know how but I must know!

I think unless you have a tablet as Bic and NF describe above, it's best to ink with a pen and then scan into PS.

Actually, depending on the desired results, the pen tool (the thing for making paths) can be a great way of inking things in Photoshop. Trace all your lines with paths, choose a brush, and Photoshop will stroke all the paths with the brush. It can be time consuming at first, but once you get the hang of it, it's not so bad.

--Romey

The Detective

06-06-2003, 04:39 PM

Okay I'll try that some time when I have some time to play around but what SJJ suggested seems to be working great. I just tried it earlier and it has worked absolutely great. Thanks!

~DK~

Rabbiterose

06-15-2003, 11:30 AM

:moon:

Hi, I need some advice on purchasing tablets--Wacom's Intuos to be exact.

I've been thinking about purchasing one for some time, but held off becuase they were a bit too expensive. However, I now have enough money to invest in it. Question is should I spend money on a brand new one or save some money and purchase a refurbished one?

The referbished ones supposedly comes with the same software as the new ones only they are used and come with a one-year warranty. One the other hand, I heard that brand-new Wacom tablets have a lifetime warranty. Is this true?

If I was to get a new one then it would have to be a 6x8 Intuos tablet, however with a referbished one I could be able to afford a 9x12 Intuos--with just a one year warranty. Question is, does size really matters between the two models?

I don't know, which would be a better investment for me?

James

06-15-2003, 11:33 AM

Being a tech question, moved to the Workshop - we have several Tablet experts here who can help you! :)

Outlander00

06-15-2003, 01:57 PM

I dunno... I always prefer to get new when it comes to computer items (except software), mostly because you dont know how "refurbished" it is. Refurbished could mean anything in this day and age. You dont want to spend the money and end up having it not work the way a new one does.

but, thats just me... Hope that helps, Rabbit :)

Stu

06-25-2003, 08:00 PM

Now then

Do any of you guy know where I could download a program that allowes me to colour my pics on my computer?

Thanks :)

Amazing Spidey

Spidey2099

06-25-2003, 08:26 PM

There is PC coloring software out there. I think there's a thread somehwere in the back pages that has links to some download sites (I'll find it and post it here when I find it).

Also, I've now figured out how to color inked images flawlessly in my paint program, in relatively little time, if you want to hear it. :)

EDIT: Here You Go (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?threadid=61929&highlight=gimp)

Stu

06-26-2003, 05:54 PM

There was that many damn links of Lucky Bobs windows page I didn't know where I clicked to download it. Anyone want to help?

Spidey2099

06-26-2003, 09:42 PM

Oops, sorry about that. I didn't click on the GIMP web site, I only supplied the thread. I'm not really sure what to click on exactly when you get to the site. But I did see a link for downloading a Windows version as you scroll down to the bottom of the page...

There has to be someone on the Drawing Board that knows what to do. :)

Outlander00

06-27-2003, 08:24 AM

Paint Shop Pro or GIMP are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head as far as being any good at coloring that are free. If youre gonna spend money, then PS is the only option (besides PSP).

btw, I am going to send this to the Tech thread, just for the sake of being orderly. :)

Spike04

06-29-2003, 09:54 PM

Well, I just ordered a Wacom Graphire2 4x5 Graphics Tablet from amazon.com. I want to get one because a certain artist from deviantART that I am a very big fan of uses one and his art is amazing. I also got a chance to try my friends' dads' (even though it wasn't a wacom) and I enjoyed it and thought I could do lots of great stuff with it. I just wanted to know if anyone has any tips on using it or just something to say about it in general.

Thanks ;)

Outlander00

06-30-2003, 07:35 AM

Practice with it is the only advice I can give, because it is really sensitive to pressure use (I should know because I just bought the same one recently :p).

btw, I am going to send this to the Tech question thread to keep things orderly around here.

Spike04

06-30-2003, 10:29 PM

Thanks for the advice Outlander.

I have another question about Photoshop this time - How do I use the airbrush? I hear everyone talking about it, but when I try to use it, it looks just like a regular brush stroke. So what's the deal?

Outlander00

07-01-2003, 07:54 AM

With your new tablet, it should be a breeze when it comes to the air brushing... Normally its a little more involved.

Theres 2 things to consider when using the airbrush....

One is the brush and its size. Usually, to use the aibrush to its full advantage I set it to a dithered (or faded) brush tips. I use the wide tips (100 - 300) to do a base color and use the smaller (less than 100) to airbrush small details or lines.

Another factor is the flow of the brush (which pops up on the center of the top row with the brushes for versions of PS 5.5 - 7 whenever you use many of the tools). This allows you to control the flow of color used each pass. The lower the number, the less color will be brushed down (when airbrushing I usually use anywhere from 5 - 25 to get the look I want).

With the tablet its easier because you dont worry about the flow... you just worry about how much pressure youre putting down.

I am sure others have more tips when it comes to using the airbrush *nudges Romey and SK :D*.

Spike04

07-01-2003, 10:23 AM

Thanks again, Outlander. I fooled around with it a little and now I understand how basically how it works!
-Spike04

Pietro

07-01-2003, 03:47 PM

I'm working on my own series of Ren and Stimpy comics. I got the drawing down pat but whenever I add color too it my drawings don't seem to take life like those of other people here.

I'm wondering, what program do you guys use to put life into your drawings? I'm currently using MS Paint.

Thanks!

-Pietro:crow:

Batlhasar

07-09-2003, 12:42 PM

Ms paint that come with windows is absolute crap...You'd think that they would atleast pack a software with windows that can actually do something... :mad: :mad:

Anyways, you should go after a simple powerful program like Jasc Paint Shop Pro or if you wanna get professional, Try out photoshop which has a steep learning curve.

James

07-10-2003, 09:18 AM

Spike04

07-10-2003, 10:23 AM

There's a program called Gimp. I remember hearing that it has layers and it is a pretty powerful program for being free. I haven't downloaded it myself and I don't have a link, but I'm sure if you just searched 'Gimp' you would find it. Good luck to you! :)

-Spike04

Bubblegum Girl

07-14-2003, 09:38 PM

Hey. It's B.G and I need help to post attachments. I don't know what button or code to press/type in order to post my art. I need help. Please? :(

redDragon

07-14-2003, 09:54 PM

Hey. It's B.G and I need help to post attachments. I don't know what button or code to press/type in order to post my art. I need help. Please? :(

Only mods and administrators are allowed to post attachments.

Bubblegum Girl

07-14-2003, 09:58 PM

Only mods and administrators are allowed to post attachments.

But how am I suppose to post my drawings? :(

Outlander00

07-14-2003, 11:09 PM

But how am I suppose to post my drawings? :(

There are a few options as far as servers to upload pics to...

there are the most widely known, like MSN, Angelfire, Geocities, etc. These may (or wont) allow you to post images within posts.

DeviantArt is free and allows you to do this though. A lot of the DB members use DeviantArt without very many problems.

www.deviantart.com

Roman Legion

07-16-2003, 01:34 AM

I am sure others have more tips when it comes to using the airbrush *nudges Romey and SK :D*.

I don't have a tablet. :p

When it comes to using the airbrush, I just set the flow and paint. The only tip I have is that if you're not using a tablet, setting the airbrush's flow to less than 5% usually works best...

--Romey

Zechs

07-18-2003, 10:06 AM

I'm looking for a book that shows you how to draw diffrent people from around the word. Does anyone know of one or where I can find one?

Sublime420

07-21-2003, 04:11 PM

I was going to do the whole batman and robin drawing practice thing, and I was just wondering if anyone could tell me a place to get some really good referance pictures.
Thanks : :D

Matt Hazuda

07-22-2003, 05:12 PM

I've created serveral animated gifs based on this video (http://www.shynola.com/j_s/j_s_download.htm), and I'm trying to get them down to an avatar based size: 10kb, but I'm not sure how to do that without losing any quality.

You can see my avatars at http://home.att.net/~mdawg957/animate/index.html

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. thank you in advance.

RKillian

07-22-2003, 06:04 PM

That's a pretty strict requirement. It's fairly inconvenient to get a still picture that small, let alone a series of them. What program are you using to make your GIFs? If you're using GIF Construction Set, there's an option to supercompress in the File menu I think. Otherwise, I'd say try to create your GIFs sharing one super palette instead of having one per frame...

Outlander00

07-23-2003, 08:51 AM

I'm looking for a book that shows you how to draw diffrent people from around the word. Does anyone know of one or where I can find one?

Sorry about the late reply, guys... work is murder :D

There really isnt one book, persay... I do tend to find put out by National Geographic to be helpful when it comes to understanding physical characteristics of people of different ethicities. From there, it really depends on standard physiological feactures you want to draw.

I was going to do the whole batman and robin drawing practice thing, and I was just wondering if anyone could tell me a place to get some really good referance pictures. Thanks :

Trying the Bat family comic books is probably your best bet. Also, there are nice reference/collectors books you can get that show you everything about Batman (both comic version and animated version).

Hope this helps, guys :)

Nightflower

07-23-2003, 11:51 PM

That said, MS Paint does have some wonderful functions - I want to use some for DKA if I can stop being lazy.

Their cut lasso is entirely freehand and you can make some great shapes and shadow shading with it. It is a poor program, and if you are looking for something better, then PSP or PS is your angle. Scour the net, see if you can find something shareware/freeware that's any good and report back here!!!

I recall NF saying she had once found a nifty package on the net! Maybe ask NightFlower!
You mean OpenCanvas? (http://www.myst.org/topencanvas.html) The problem with it is that it's strictly a "painterly" program similar to Painter, and requires a bit of expertise (There's the barest minimum of tools, only brush and watercolor). But it can produce really nice results! http://www.myst.org/faq/fae2c.jpg

Sublime420

08-09-2003, 12:54 AM

How many drawings per second are used in a common animation?
Just wanna see what I'm gettin' myself into :D

Outlander00

08-09-2003, 12:06 PM

How many drawings per second are used in a common animation?
Just wanna see what I'm gettin' myself into :D

Well, Nightflower or RKillian might know the exact answer...

But, if I remember my Sequential Art and CG classes in college, I believe animation can range anywhere from 60 - 120 frames per second, depending on the type of animation you are doing.

The Detective

08-11-2003, 03:15 PM

The image site I'm using right now has a 25 pic limit and I'm almost used up. I need a REALLY good art hosting, so please someone give me some good suggestions. I'd really appreciate it. :D

Spike04

08-11-2003, 03:30 PM

I use deviantart.com. It's the best site i've found for hosting images and it rarely has problems...they just came out with a new version which was pretty confusing at first but it's pretty easy to use once you figure everything out.

comixboy

08-11-2003, 03:40 PM

I also use http://www.deviantart.com, after geekshelf closed down I started using this one and its really easy to use, its also very cool looking:cool:

The Detective

08-11-2003, 04:52 PM

I've heard about Devian art, guess I'll check it out.

RKillian

08-11-2003, 08:32 PM

Long time listener, first time caller.

Are there any Photoshop tutorial sites that you've found useful? I guess I should explain what I'm looking for. There's two things I'd like to learn how to do, inking and coloring.

Right now, I do inking with a pen on paper. It's basically alot of line drawing. When I put it on the computer, the lines look thick for some reason. It a consequence of the medium I guess. Still, I'd like to see what a digitally inked picture would look like.

Then I have to do coloring in Paintshop. Variety of colors (in markers), basically beyond 16, is a real problem. When I color, I get noticible streaks. Also, I like to keep an uncolored version without having to draw it twice. Unfortunately, I guess because of the program I use (Paintshop), the edges really don't match. I get decent color, then spots of grey, then a black line. It's hard to get close becuase of how the source material is drawn.

So, are there any tutorials you know of (or can give) that can tell me how to do these things step-by-step? I've been looking for some time, and all I come up with is subjective art class material. Right now, Photoshop looks like a glorified "draw-by-mouse" application. I thought it was a crutch for people but damnit it's so much harder than sitting down and just drawing...

Any insight on the situation would be most appreciated, thanks.

Outlander00

08-11-2003, 08:56 PM

Well, as the resident lurker (and one of the best colorist on the board), Silverknight, has said... "Trial and error is your best friend in Photoshop".

Playing with everything, really, helps a lot in understand what commands do what.

Adobes site is pretty good for sources, because they have tutorials you can access (though you have to regiester with them). But, if you need help, here are some sites I have found that you can take a look at:

http://www.teamphotoshop.com/

http://www.phong.com/tutorials/

http://www.absolutecross.com/tutorials/photoshop/

http://www.photoshoproadmap.com/

http://www.good-tutorials.com/

Hope these help :)

Parallax

08-11-2003, 09:20 PM

Blah. I downloaded GIMP and I can't do a thing with it! Does anyone have any tutorials that might be helpful?

RKillian

08-12-2003, 08:26 AM

Damned connection...this is a retype.

Well, it doesn't look like Photoshop is that much of a leap beyond Paintshop. I followed a few tutorials and, barring a dozen more inbetween steps, my work came out pretty much the same. What I was really hoping for was a program that did effects based on calculations rather than trial and error. You gallery artists can afford to do everything differently, animation is a different story. Still, I'll muck around with this for a bit longer :P

So, then I have a question for those of you who've used a few versions of Photoshop. I found this tutorial (http://www.howtodrawmanga.com/tutorial/cgmain.html) that was, I assume, written for version 6.

Make sure that Layer 1 is selected, and not the background layer, then hit delete. This will delete all white areas from the picture, leaving only the black outline. Deselect the image so that the dashed lines go away, leaving only the outline. You'll notice that the outline will be quite faded, though. Don't worry, this is very easy to correct. :)

Now, I got here alright with faded lines and all (over checkerboard background). This is where I got stopped though.

Set Layer 1 to "Preserve Transparency" by checking the box on the Layers menu, as shown at the left. This allows you to paint on top of the existing lines without coloring over them and messing them up. Its a very handy feature. :) Select a big paintbrush and paint over the entire picture with pure black. The outline should be back to its former darkened self. :)

http://www.cablenet.ne.jp/~japanime/howto/tutorial/cgt04b.jpg

The problem is that I don't have this check mark. Instead I have, right below the opacity window, another window labeled as fill taking values 0-100. What do I do here? Or is there a different way to do this in Photoshop 7.0.1?

RKillian

08-12-2003, 08:45 AM

How many drawings per second are used in a common animation?
Just wanna see what I'm gettin' myself into

Well, Nightflower or RKillian might know the exact answer...

But, if I remember my Sequential Art and CG classes in college, I believe animation can range anywhere from 60 - 120 frames per second, depending on the type of animation you are doing.

Whoa, a question I can answer?! Sorry about the lateness of my reply.

It depends on what you're refering to as a common animation.

The human eye can barely see up to 30, so anything higher is a waste of effort (unless it's a slow-motion sequence). Gaming consoles were boasting 60 fps at one point, but my guess is the more practical use was in 3D hit detection rather than visual display.

Looney Tunes, Popeye, and others of that era were often 24 fps as they were shot on movie film. If you watch one in slow motion, you might go as low as 20, but there are _alot_ of frames there. Most Disney films, excluding the last couple years, fall into that category as well.

Television animation is another ballgame. I'd venture an educated guess and say 15 fps is a high point. It varies, from something like Yogi Bear to Ren and Stimpy. This is one instance where I have to admit that Hanna Barbera slacked a little, especially during the 1960s. It also depends on the show, what's going on, etc. If something drops below 10 it's usually pretty visible.

There's a scene in "Joker's Wild" that's coming up right now. The helicopter crashes, Joker crawls out, picks up a gun and starts running. The camera changes and, as Joker and Batman run by, it looks like it drops to about 5 fps for some reason.

Now, as an amateur, you're kind of excused from having a terrific frame rate. When I was working on my TransFormers movie prequel, I don't remember breaking 15 fps outside of dialogue scenes. I mean, how hard is it to rearrange 3 or 4 drawings? Some places it's noticible, some places it's not.

For the Optimus Prime animation I posted here a few weeks back, it's sitting at a lofty 9 fps. Nine frames per second. I'd be shot if I did that at Disney. Did you notice much of a problem with it though? I had a few complaints about flicker before I colored it but after coloring it and telling people I boosted the frame rate, I got fairly rave reviews. What I took away from the experience was that high contrast makes flaws more noticible and color can sway people :P

The only place where a weird frame rate is going to hurt you technically is if you're using a medium with finite quanta. Like, for example, Adobe Premiere 4 lets me split each second up into a maximum of 30 frames. Nine doesn't go evenly into thirty. If you do something screwy, like make 1 frame a little longer, that's fine unless you end up rendering at 15 fps. Most animated GIF software lets you divide time up into 100ths of a second though.

So, to answer your question, your typical animation should strive for at least 10 fps. If you can get away with less, by all means try to do so. Hope this helps!

Sublime420

08-12-2003, 11:17 PM

Yeah, thanks it does. :D

RKillian

08-16-2003, 04:33 PM

So, then I have a question for those of you who've used a few versions of Photoshop. I found this tutorial (http://www.howtodrawmanga.com/tutorial/cgmain.html) that was, I assume, written for version 6.

Make sure that Layer 1 is selected, and not the background layer, then hit delete. This will delete all white areas from the picture, leaving only the black outline. Deselect the image so that the dashed lines go away, leaving only the outline. You'll notice that the outline will be quite faded, though. Don't worry, this is very easy to correct. :)

Now, I got here alright with faded lines and all (over checkerboard background). This is where I got stopped though.

Set Layer 1 to "Preserve Transparency" by checking the box on the Layers menu, as shown at the left. This allows you to paint on top of the existing lines without coloring over them and messing them up. Its a very handy feature. :) Select a big paintbrush and paint over the entire picture with pure black. The outline should be back to its former darkened self. :)

http://www.cablenet.ne.jp/~japanime/howto/tutorial/cgt04b.jpg

The problem is that I don't have this check mark. Instead I have, right below the opacity window, another window labeled as fill taking values 0-100. What do I do here? Or is there a different way to do this in Photoshop 7.0.1?

Outlander00

08-16-2003, 05:24 PM

So, then I have a question for those of you who've used a few versions of Photoshop. I found this tutorial (http://www.howtodrawmanga.com/tutorial/cgmain.html) that was, I assume, written for version 6.

Now, I got here alright with faded lines and all (over checkerboard background). This is where I got stopped though.

http://www.cablenet.ne.jp/~japanime/howto/tutorial/cgt04b.jpg

The problem is that I don't have this check mark. Instead I have, right below the opacity window, another window labeled as fill taking values 0-100. What do I do here? Or is there a different way to do this in Photoshop 7.0.1?

If I remember correctly... That was done away with in version 7, because the opacity van be changed by either opacity or fill. Romey may have more incite into it, though.

Sublime420

08-16-2003, 10:11 PM

This is very reacuring for me, so I was wondering if anyone had any advice.
When ever I think up a scene or a pose for a person I can see it pretty good. But I sit down and try to draw it out, and I can't even think of how the stick figure should look. Even if I try, I get some crappy looking thing, that looks nothing like what I first imagined.

Do any of you run across this? Have any advice?
Thanks :)

Roman Legion

08-16-2003, 10:25 PM

The human eye can barely see up to 30, so anything higher is a waste of effort (unless it's a slow-motion sequence). Gaming consoles were boasting 60 fps at one point, but my guess is the more practical use was in 3D hit detection rather than visual display.

Looney Tunes, Popeye, and others of that era were often 24 fps as they were shot on movie film. If you watch one in slow motion, you might go as low as 20, but there are _alot_ of frames there. Most Disney films, excluding the last couple years, fall into that category as well.

Not quite...

If you compare a 30 fps and 60 fps game side by side, you'll notice a very significant difference. You'll see even more difference moving up to 90 fps, so framerates above 30 fps are in no way a waste of effort (fps has nothing to do with hit detection, either).

The reason 30 fps isn't enough? In general, games don't use motion blur. Motion blur can be thought of as an infinite number of frames blended together over a finite time frame. Thirty frames with motion blur, such as in film, convey far more motion information than thirty frames without motion blur, such as in a game.

The human eye / brain doesn't work in "frames per second", even though only a limited fps can be percieved, so when you have more than 30fps, the frames are changing fast enough for the images to perceptually blend together. Even if the display can't handle more than 30 fps, the interlacing of most TV's can still manage to help with the blending (and make screengrabs a pain...)

2D animation, for some reason, obeys a different set of perceptual laws, though the relative lack of fps in some shows can be made painfully obvious in the presence of badly blended CG, running at a higher frame rate. Animation can also make up for lack of fps through various deformation techniques.

--Romey

RKillian

08-17-2003, 12:15 AM

(fps has nothing to do with hit detection, either).

Yes it does. Hit detection is calculated on a frames per second level. Every frame is a rerendering of your screen, and, on that redraw, hit detection is recalculated. It's more noticible in something 2D, based on finite sprite graphics, but it definitely _is_ there in 3D as well.

The human eye / brain doesn't work in "frames per second", even though only a limited fps can be percieved, so when you have more than 30fps, the frames are changing fast enough for the images to perceptually blend together. Even if the display can't handle more than 30 fps, the interlacing of most TV's can still manage to help with the blending (and make screengrabs a pain...)

With interlacing, you're seeing 60 half-frames per second.

2D animation, for some reason, obeys a different set of perceptual laws, though the relative lack of fps in some shows can be made painfully obvious in the presence of badly blended CG, running at a higher frame rate. Animation can also make up for lack of fps through various deformation techniques.

2D animation, when rendered on a computer, has the same problem motion blur problem as CG animation. Other than that, I fail to see how the perceptual laws are different from regular film? Deformation can be a useful tool, so long as it's not distracting.

Hey, by the way, any idea what replaced that "preserve transparency" box in 7.0?

Roman Legion

08-17-2003, 02:50 AM

Yes it does. Hit detection is calculated on a frames per second level. Every frame is a rerendering of your screen, and, on that redraw, hit detection is recalculated. It's more noticible in something 2D, based on finite sprite graphics, but it definitely _is_ there in 3D as well.

Sorry, what I meant to say was that hit detection is not inseperable from fps, even if it can be done that way (and I know it's done). Granted, it's been a while since I've coded collision detection myself, but tying it to your fps seems like a bad idea for all but the most basic situations. Wouldn't take too many collision calculations going before hit detection kills the fps, because every frame has to wait for hit detection before being rendered. In this situation, hit detection becomes a direct limitation for the fps, and vice versa. Besides, if the collision algorithms are done well, I doubt 60 calculations per second would be noticeably more accurate.

With interlacing, you're seeing 60 half-frames per second.

Exactly why it makes screen-grabbing such a pain, like I said. :D Still, it's extra motion information that can be percieved.

2D animation, when rendered on a computer, has the same problem motion blur problem as CG animation. Other than that, I fail to see how the perceptual laws are different from regular film? Deformation can be a useful tool, so long as it's not distracting.

Not sure I understand. How is 2D animation off a computer different from hand-painted animation in terms of motion? The image quality of each individual frame might not be the same, but the over-all motion wouldn't be any different.

I'm mostly basing the assumption of different perceptual laws between 2D and 3D animation off my observation that true 3D motion (minus motion blur) looks much worse than 2D motion at the same low frame rates. 2D motion is also much simpler to approximate. That might be it, there... Not so much perception as ease of simulation, or something like that.

Hey, by the way, any idea what replaced that "preserve transparency" box in 7.0?

Unfortunately... nope. I usually just stick to PS5, actually.

--Romey

RKillian

08-17-2003, 01:13 PM

2D from a computer or film panel are different becuase of motion blur. It's just the minor changes in how it's presented. On film, there's a sliding effect. On a computer, there's the refresh effect. I'm too lazy to animate ot, so I'll try a textual example.

On film:

ABCD UVWX QRST MNOP
EFGH ABCD UVWX QRST
IJKL EFGH ABCD UVWX

On CPU:

ABCD MNOP MNOP MNOP
EFGH EFGH QRST QRST
IJKL IJKL IJKL UVWX

On film, everything's always moving from one frame to the next. On a computer or other solid state device, it's alot more stationary. I would venture a guess that, on television, they'd probably look alot closer, if not the same, because of how CRTs work.

The way I learned collision detection in OpenGL was that collisions were calculated on each redraw. This redraw, for convenience, occured 30 times per second. When the sytem draws your polygons, it keeps a number of stacks and flags. When two shapes overlap the same 3D space, a flag is set and the point(s) at which they meet are pushed onto the stack. As each polygon is supposed to have a unique ID, you can track the hit down to what caused it, hence providing hit detection. Now, obviously this is a very crude example, but it's a fairly standard parallel to frame rate and hit detection.

I'd think something similar would be used in Mega Man or Super Mario, but I've been stuck on programming that kind of game for awhile so I don't want to deal with it :P

Oh, and that sucks that you use PS 5 :(

Know where I can download a demo of it or version 6?

Roman Legion

08-17-2003, 05:08 PM

2D from a computer or film panel are different becuase of motion blur. It's just the minor changes in how it's presented. On film, there's a sliding effect . . . I would venture a guess that, on television, they'd probably look alot closer, if not the same, because of how CRTs work.

Ahh, now I see the confusion. You're talking about the differences between display devices, and I'm talking about the animation process... I think.

What I meant was that there's no motion blur inherent to creating 2D animation on a computer. The animators are still dealing with a sequence of drawn frames, either way. The individual frames won't have any motion blur unless it was intentionally faked in post-production (which wouldn't always look terribly great, either).

The way I learned collision detection in OpenGL was that collisions were calculated on each redraw. This redraw, for convenience, occured 30 times per second. When the sytem draws your polygons, it keeps a number of stacks and flags. When two shapes overlap the same 3D space, a flag is set and the point(s) at which they meet are pushed onto the stack. As each polygon is supposed to have a unique ID, you can track the hit down to what caused it, hence providing hit detection. Now, obviously this is a very crude example, but it's a fairly standard parallel to frame rate and hit detection.

Hmm... That implementation would certainly work, but it sounds fairly limiting on a number of levels.

For starters, there's the problem I mentioned before, about tying frame rate and collisions together. For the frame rate to be optimal, it should only be dependent on how long it takes to draw the scene, as far as the software is concerned. Obviously, there will be other delays caused by the hardware, but there's usually not much you can do about that.

Next problem is that this implementation's accuracy depends on catching objects while they overlap. As soon as you have an object moving fast enough to completely move through other geometry between frames, this solution fails.

Then there's the problem of doing collisions on the polygon level. Even if you include optimisations to only check certain objects, if the object in question is reasonably detailed, you'd better be doing collision detection on the bounding box / collision mesh level.

What I would do is base collision detection around object movement, probably varying the hit checks on the speed of the object. Then for every variable unit of space-time that the object moves through, check if an intersection will occur (using whatever method's appropriate under the circumstances). This would make more sense, because I'd suspect that a moving object is most likely not going to be colliding with anything at any given moment. As the object moves through units, hundreds of frames could safely pass without the need for doing another hit check. Saves a heck of a lot of processing time. Then, perhaps, if a collision over a unit is detected, I might switch to per-frame detection for that unit... maybe, and only for the suspected objects. Meanwhile, the renderer is grabbing the current game-state every time it finishes the previous frame, continuing freely on its merry way.

I'd think something similar would be used in Mega Man or Super Mario, but I've been stuck on programming that kind of game for awhile so I don't want to deal with it :P

I wouldn't be surprised if either of those games did things per frame, but I really don't know.

Oh, and that sucks that you use PS 5 :(

Don't feel too sorry for me... I have something of a love afair with PS5. I can't bring myself to part with it. I could switch to 7.0 if I wanted to. =x

Know where I can download a demo of it or version 6?

Nope, no luck there.

--Romey

Tallaid

09-14-2003, 07:43 PM

Outlander00

09-15-2003, 08:25 AM

I just finished another drawing today (I'll Scan it soon) and i noticed something looking back on all of my drawings, usually I draw them with the plan of scanning them and coloring them but I always seem to shade them completely by hand so that when I try to color them on the comp they look very sketchy instead of clean. This mostly happens when I draw clothes, I get some basic lines in where they would fold then I shade them all until the whole picture is basically just a bunch of different shades of grayhttp://forums.toonzone.net/images/smilies/sweat.gif. My question is basically, does anyone have some good tips on drawing folds without shading but still having them look realistic.

There really isnt one way, persay of drawing fabric folds... it varies depending on what style you want, how you want it to look, etc.

Personally, when I draw something that I intend to color, I usually use a line within the cloth to show a fold, or multiple lines if there are is anything else (stretches, folded, draped over a bent extremity, etc.)... Then on the outlining, define it more by fold, drape, etc. If you are coloring it and want to shade using color, you just need enough information to tell yourself "okay, this is how the light will hit here, here, and here". How much of a line is entirely up to you.

I hope this helps, Tallaid! :)

Anyone else want to share their tips for doing cloth?

Easily Amewsed

09-15-2003, 06:24 PM

Photoshop 7 just has cute lil icons. Maybe this will help - it's a explanation of the new locks and one reason why it's fun using them. It's a XP PC screen, but Mac should not look all that different. Please forgive the picture size, it's a little big, but necessary to keep the text clear.

http://www.suesrock.net/home/dannykat/TransLock4LineColor.jpg

Pyro

04-26-2004, 06:40 PM

Forgive me if this has been asked already (I really don't have time to go through 6 pages), but I've got a question about computer art programs. If some of you have these programs, I'd like to get some info on them. Basically:
1. What's the difference between Photoshop, Painter, and PaintShop Pro?
2. What is Adobe Illustrator like? How does it operate, and how useful is it to you? Are there any other programs similar to this I should look into?
3. If you're familiar with some of these programs, what is your personal preference?
4. Any advice for someone looking into drawing tablets?
thanks.

Outlander00

05-02-2004, 10:33 AM

Let me answer these questions in order, Pyro!

1. Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro do a lot of similar things for raster type of images. My personal preference, however, would have to be Photoshop because of its flexibility and capabilties with its tools... especially its capabilities with layers. Many programs try to copy that aspect from Photoshop, but no one can come close.

2. Adobe Illustrator is a vector program, where you have the ability to create and manipulate easily your drawings (to explain the difference between vecotr & raster would be a Workshop all to itself ;)). I like the work that comes out of it, however there is a big learning curve to it in order to get any good at it. I personally like CorelDRAW, but again it comes down to preference.

3. I think a lot of us who use tablets will all say the same thing... Go with a Wacom! They are the best out there because they work with anything and are very responsive. They are also not that expensive.

Pyro

05-03-2004, 05:38 PM

2. Adobe Illustrator is a vector program, where you have the ability to create and manipulate easily your drawings (to explain the difference between vecotr & raster would be a Workshop all to itself ;)). Vector is something like the pen tool right? While raster is like... something you can use the the paintbrush on? :p I'm pretty good with the pen tool, and I know I have to "rasterize" my text layers to work on them. That's the limit of my knowledge of the subject. :sweat:

3. I think a lot of us who use tablets will all say the same thing... Go with a Wacom! They are the best out there because they work with anything and are very responsive. They are also not that expensive.I've been to the website, and what size is good? Does 4x5 mean inches? Would that be too small or would it work fine? It seems that Painter comes with a tablet, so if I get one I'll be able try that out for myself. :)

Outlander00

05-03-2004, 07:32 PM

Vector is something like the pen tool right? While raster is like... something you can use the the paintbrush on? :p I'm pretty good with the pen tool, and I know I have to "rasterize" my text layers to work on them. That's the limit of my knowledge of the subject. :sweat: Yeah, it can be pretty confusing to those not accustomed to the terms. :sweat:

"Vector programs" basically means that the program uses vectors, coordinates, etc (basically mathematical formulas) to create an image. "Raster programs" are programs that deal with individual pixels to create an image. The later versions of Illustrator and Photoshop have blurred that distinction somewhat, giving people more control... however, you still have distinction between the two.

I've been to the website, and what size is good? Does 4x5 mean inches? Would that be too small or would it work fine? It seems that Painter comes with a tablet, so if I get one I'll be able try that out for myself. :)4 x 5 means the usable area of the tablet, which is 4" x 5"... which is small, but it is a good workable size (I use a 4 x 5 because I work very tight when I use it). The size really depends on what youre going to use it for... If youre going to use it for more than coloring and photoediting, then a larger size would work for you.