Significance to Terry

[James Harvey]

In an attempt to revive this board, here's a thread which should produce some good coversations. What events do you consider significant to Terry's development in the BB timeline?

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
In an attempt to revive this board, here's a thread which should produce some good coversations. What events do you consider significant to Terry's development in the BB timeline?

Most significant: The events in "Lost Soul." That was where we explicitly saw him in action as a human being, and not as the operator of a high-tech suit. The fighting spirit shone forth, not the technology.

[DR. BELCH]

--his father's death. That will color anyone's life. More important than becoming the Bat, he became a man.

Meeting Mr. Freeze, one of his mentor's oldest foes. His mind wasn't tainted with old prejudice, and he realized really what a pitiable man Victor was, not just a cold-blooded killer.

Being asked to join the Justice League...and turning it down.

Being tempted by Melanie...and turning her down. I don't think I'd have had the strength.

[Bird Boy]

Return of the Joker...lots of significance there..

Lost Soul..

Meltdown..

so many...those come directly to mind though..

-BB

[The Mad Hatter]

Don't forget the excellent Big Time episodes, where Terry must confront his past actions and loyalties.

[Failure]

I thought Babel was big in Terry's development. There he had to really think about why he's doing what he's doing. Is he doing it for himself? for his father? for the people of Gotham? for the praise? It was a tough situation that even Bruce would've allowed him to walk away from, but Terry showed his mettle by doing what a "hero" would've done.

[optimal321]

Originally posted by Failure
I thought Babel was big in Terry's development. There he had to really think about why he's doing what he's doing. Is he doing it for himself? for his father? for the people of Gotham? for the praise? It was a tough situation that even Bruce would've allowed him to walk away from, but Terry showed his mettle by doing what a "hero" would've done.

Yeah, Babel was perfect in Terry's development! Also, Terry defeating the Joker was kind of a "right's of passage" for him to become Batman. The way he used Joker's vanity against him and defeated him psychologically proved to be the only way to really defeat him. Even Bruce couldn't do that.

Also, Rebirth and Lost Soul, but those have already been touched upon.

[Blade]

most signigficant in terry's development,

1) rebirth part 1- terry's dad dies, making him realize that he needs to get his act together (terry becomes a man)

2) ascension- terry controls his emotions and does not take revenge on blight (terry has a pure soul)

3) lost soul- terry fights the suit (terry shows us how much the mantle means to him

4) babel- terry gives himself up for the city (terry's quest is no longer personal, he has become attached to Gotham)

5) betrayal- terry deals with his past (terry has truly walked away from his dark past)

i guess episodes like that are what really make me love bb.

[Trent Lane]

I think all the episdoes that display this are already mentioned, but I gotta say Lost Soul. That showed Terry was a good fighter on his own, and his inteligence also...

[DisneyBoy]

I really must heavily disagree with DR. BELCH's comment that the death of Terry's father made him a man. I think that is really revolting. Losing his father didn't make Terry any more or less of a man or boy than he already was. I think that if Terry was a real person, then he'd have to assume more responsibility after his father died, which would make him more mature...but not a "man". I really hate this macho, primevil, film-induced notion that guys "Become a Man" when they kill, or when they hunt or when they're brave, or when they kick-ass, or when they (wink wink-nudge nudge) with a woman. Being a man means being of a certain gender. If you want to spiritualize it, fine...

I think that being "A Man" means having honor and decency, being truthful and generous, overcoming life's obstacles and knowing who you are, setting goals that will better not simply your own life, but those of the world...but mostly...bringing LOVE to people's lives, not hatred or competition or destruction. Choosing to bring peace, understanding and love to the world is the greatest thing we as human beings can ask of ourselves. Not accomplishing it doesn't make us any less of a person, but achieving the opposite does. If you want to say "being a good person" or "making the world a better, more loving place" call it that, but don't perpetuate the myth that it makes you more of a man.

[TuffyCatt]

Originally posted by DisneyBoy
I really must heavily disagree with DR. BELCH's comment that the death of Terry's father made him a man. I think that is really revolting. Losing his father didn't make Terry any more or less of a man or boy than he already was. I think that if Terry was a real person, then he'd have to assume more responsibility after his father died, which would make him more mature...but not a "man". I really hate this macho, primevil, film-induced notion that guys "Become a Man" when they kill, or when they hunt or when they're brave, or when they kick-ass, or when they (wink wink-nudge nudge) with a woman. Being a man means being of a certain gender. If you want to spiritualize it, fine...

I think that being "A Man" means having honor and decency, being truthful and generous, overcoming life's obstacles and knowing who you are, setting goals that will better not simply your own life, but those of the world...but mostly...bringing LOVE to people's lives, not hatred or competition or destruction. Choosing to bring peace, understanding and love to the world is the greatest thing we as human beings can ask of ourselves. Not accomplishing it doesn't make us any less of a person, but achieving the opposite does. If you want to say "being a good person" or "making the world a better, more loving place" call it that, but don't perpetuate the myth that it makes you more of a man.

I agree with your ideas about what really makes someone "a man", but I think that all Dr. Belch was saying about Terry losing his father was that it a very difficult situation for him, and difficult situations tend to make people mature a little bit. I don't think that he was saying that Terry going out and getting revenge made him and a man, but having to deal with the loss of someone important to him made it so he had to mature a lot so that he could deal with it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just my opinion.

[James]

I think both Disneyboy and Belch have made valid points. Like it or not, such a tragic event like the death of someone close can either make, or break a man. In Terry's case it seems to have made him stronger and given him direction. His death seemed to highlight the parts of Terry's life that were frivilous and wasteful. In Terry's mind his casual disregard for his father seems to have given him more purpose in life - and to his mantle. In someways a wake up call. Whether this was a good thing is anyone's guess. Perhaps becoming Batman is not a fantastic career move for anyone but a way of dealing the pain that life has brought.

[DisneyBoy]

I agree with your resposes. I guess with all the tragies happening lately, I've been less tolerant towards anything that remotely supports violence. I didn't really see that DR. BELCH might have been saying exactly what I was only in different words. Thanks for pointing it out!

[Tim Drake]

Ya know to go back on topic I really think Betrayal is so crucial because he lets Big Time drop into the river. It separates him from Bruce even. Batman would never allow Two-face harvey dent to fall to his death. But Terry lets Big Time Charlie bigalow drop. And his response "I outgrew him that's all" that was creepy.