Matt Groening Bashes Fox

[mbaker]

"Simpsons" creator Matt Groening has taken some pot shots at Fox recently, and who could blame him? After their lack of support for his other series, "Futurama", and Seth McFarlane's "Family Guy" I wouldn't trust Fox any further than I could kick them! Especially since they've been treating "American Idol", and Joe Millionaire" like they were royalty when clearly they're not! (Hey Paula, got back into the studio, and make another album!) Other than "The Simpsons", "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" (Fox Box) is the only decent show they got right now, and that's saying something. Fox needs to understand that Matt Groening not only helped bring Fox into the limelight, but he also helped bring animation back to prime time after so many years of holiday specials with saturday morning production values. Click below to read more.

http://www.canoe.ca/Television/mar19_simpsons-sun.html

[Floydian Slip]

yay!
now if only futurama would actualy have more then 2 episodes shown every 6 months. we can dream though, can't we?

[animenologist]

Come on. I like King of the Hill and Malcolm in the Middle. But yeah everything else I agree with.

[The Landstander]

Alright, Matt, not afraid to speak your opinions!

Also, it seems like he doesn't want the Simpsons to go on anymore (at least thats how I'm interpreting some of his statements)...perhaps he could make the show unfunny and only a shadow of its former self? Oh wait... ;)

[j32885]

Hey, I don't blame him for bashing FOX, for the way they have treated Family Guy and Futurama. And look where both shows are on right now, CN's Adult Swim. I have a funny feeling that animation show he works on will air on AS, instead of FOX.

[The Drizzle]

I agree with him on Futurama and Family Guy, but I like Malcolm in the Middle and King of the Hill as well, just not as much as I used to. Hopefully any future series from him will go to Adult Swim.

[Master Moron]

I hate Fox just because they won't stop advertising that awful Oliver Beene show. I mean, seriously they just finish advertising that piece of crap during the credits to King of the Hill then they have another Oliver Beene ad during the commercial that follows it. ARGH!!!!!!! I know they have to advertise their crappy shows, but Beene-vision? Come on, give me a freakin break. If I have to sit through that Beene-vision crap for one more night I'm gonna boycott Fox.

[Robin2099]

Can't blame the guy. Since the only reason FOX became a big network was because of The Simpsons and Married with Children, and then to be treated so shabby I can't blame the guy. Best of all, he knows that right now he's untouchable, so he can voice his opinion.

[raykremer]

... Family Guy and Futurama. And look where both shows are on right now, CN's Adult Swim.
Family Guy on AS? Where?

[Jeff Harris]

Originally posted by raykremer
Family Guy on AS? Where? 11:30 PM EST/PST sometime in April. Check the Adult Swim board for more details. I'd tell you here, but *yawn* it's almost 3 in the morning when I'm writing this.

[TimTwoFace]

Originally posted by mbaker
"Simpsons" creator Matt Groening has taken some pot shots at Fox recently, and who could blame him?

Hey, what else is new? Nearly every Simpsons episode nowadays takes a dig at FOX in some way, shape, or form. He's right, though - based on the treatment of two other great series (FUTURAMA and FAMILY GUY), which, in all honesty, were BETTER than the Simpsons in the same few years they were on the air, he and many others have not been treated fairly by the FOX execx. Rrrrgh.

-Tim

[Elven Moon]

Way to go, Groening! Tell them what's what! He certainly can't be blamed for this.

[Djm912]

No one can blame him for saying anything about Fox. I mean look at how much they've screwed up. No one knows what time the non-reality shows are even on anymore, and they're just ripping apart the few good shows they have.

[Jaime_Weinman]

I dunno. Every time a show gets cancelled, the producers blame the network. It's easy, but not always fair. Yeah, Futurama had a strong fan base, but a show needs more than a fan base to be a hit; it needs to appeal to a broad range of people, like The Simpsons does. Futurama has always had a specialized appeal (BTW, I remember it being very heavily promoted in its first season), and Family Guy was never popular at all beyond a small but very loyal fan base, not enough to justify keeping a show on the air.

I get tired of network-bashing, frankly. The networks always get the blame; when a show is bad, the creators blame "network interference," but will they ever talk about the times when network interference improves a show? Not bloody likely. (And yes, it does happen. Sometimes the network execs correctly identify that something sucks and say "change it." Hell, at this point The Simpsons might do well to take more notes from the network, since their "creative freedom" has led to the show being a mess. Whereas back in the Golden Age, the show had James L. Brooks coming in to rewrite the scripts, and they had to cowtow to his wishes -- in other words, even though they were answering to Brooks instead of the network, the writing staff did not have total creative freedom; and a good thing too.)

Sure, Fox is annoying, and they have an obvious problem in that they have limited patience with anything that isn't a hit right away like The Simpsons was. But it's just so much easier for Groening to blame Futurama's relative failure on the network. And I don't think it's completely accurate. (And Groening is frankly very self-serving in a lot of the things he says. To this day he glosses over or downplays the vital role of Sam Simon -- arguably the true creative force behind The Simpsons -- in making that show.)

ADDENDUM to what I wrote about Fox's impatience: I think it's clear that the shows that last on Fox tend to be the ones that make a big splash right away, i.e. "The Simpsons," "Malcolm in the Middle." "King of the Hill" has survived its recent lukewarm ratings because it was a big hit in its first season or two. I don't think Fox has ever had the guts to do what NBC did with "Cheers" or "Seinfeld," which was to stick with a show that initially wasn't a hit, and wait for it to find an audience and become a hit.

[mbaker]

Originally posted by Jaime_Weinman
I dunno. Every time a show gets cancelled, the producers blame the network. It's easy, but not always fair. Yeah, Futurama had a strong fan base, but a show needs more than a fan base to be a hit; it needs to appeal to a broad range of people, like The Simpsons does. Futurama has always had a specialized appeal (BTW, I remember it being very heavily promoted in its first season), and Family Guy was never popular at all beyond a small but very loyal fan base, not enough to justify keeping a show on the air.

I get tired of network-bashing, frankly. The networks always get the blame; when a show is bad, the creators blame "network interference," but will they ever talk about the times when network interference improves a show? Not bloody likely. (And yes, it does happen. Sometimes the network execs correctly identify that something sucks and say "change it." Hell, at this point The Simpsons might do well to take more notes from the network, since their "creative freedom" has led to the show being a mess. Whereas back in the Golden Age, the show had James L. Brooks coming in to rewrite the scripts, and they had to cowtow to his wishes -- in other words, even though they were answering to Brooks instead of the network, the writing staff did not have total creative freedom; and a good thing too.)

Sure, Fox is annoying, and they have an obvious problem in that they have limited patience with anything that isn't a hit right away like The Simpsons was. But it's just so much easier for Groening to blame Futurama's relative failure on the network. And I don't think it's completely accurate. (And Groening is frankly very self-serving in a lot of the things he says. To this day he glosses over or downplays the vital role of Sam Simon -- arguably the true creative force behind The Simpsons -- in making that show.)
That's A very well thought out counter point.

[TimTwoFace]

Originally posted by Jaime_Weinman
I dunno. Every time a show gets cancelled, the producers blame the network. It's easy, but not always fair. Yeah, Futurama had a strong fan base, but a show needs more than a fan base to be a hit; it needs to appeal to a broad range of people, like The Simpsons does. Futurama has always had a specialized appeal (BTW, I remember it being very heavily promoted in its first season), and Family Guy was never popular at all beyond a small but very loyal fan base, not enough to justify keeping a show on the air.


I know that the fanbase for FUTURAMA and FAMILY GUY aren't anywhere near as large as that of the SIMPSONS - of all TV shows on the air it probably has the broadest range, period. I still think the fan base wasn't as small as you would suggest. Either way, these shows had a much better fanbase than many of the other shows that have been taking their place on the network since.

-Tim

[Pilmedium]

Originally posted by mbaker
"Simpsons" creator Matt Groening has taken some pot shots at Fox recently, and who could blame him? After their lack of support for his other series, "Futurama", and Seth McFarlane's "Family Guy" I wouldn't trust Fox any further than I could kick them! Especially since they've been treating "American Idol", and Joe Millionaire" like they were royalty when clearly they're not! (Hey Paula, got back into the studio, and make another album!) Other than "The Simpsons", "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" (Fox Box) is the only decent show they got right now, and that's saying something. Fox needs to understand that Matt Groening not only helped bring Fox into the limelight, but he also helped bring animation back to prime time after so many years of holiday specials with saturday morning production values. Click below to read more.

http://www.canoe.ca/Television/mar19_simpsons-sun.html

Based on the way FOX treated other shows, this is understandable. They seem to find a few things to focus on and ignore everything else.

[GL2k2]

Fox used to be experimental, but they've also shown they follow the carrot. CBS jumped the gun on the reality biz and they knew they could do better. I don't mind American Idol, but there way too many other shows on that are stupid. I'd rather see FireFly and Girls Club than Joe Millionaire and Married by America any day. What needs to happen is people need to just stop watching. It is not good entertainment any way. Next season will look worse if the ratings don't change.

As for Matt Groening, I can't blame him either. They actually wanted to cancel Simpsons. I say he should go ahead and make that cartoon based on the bunny with one ear. "Life in Hell", it's time for that toon to shine. The Simpsons, Futurama, and Life in Hell!!! With those three shows Fox would rule.

[Tobias]

Family Guy never had a chance to get a following. Fox would switch the show's timeslot every other week. In it's short run , it went from Sundays to Tuesdays to Wednesday to Thursday, always being scheduled against something bigger (Friends, Drew Carey, etc).

[Master Moron]

Originally posted by Jaime_Weinman
I dunno. Every time a show gets cancelled, the producers blame the network. It's easy, but not always fair. Yeah, Futurama had a strong fan base, but a show needs more than a fan base to be a hit; it needs to appeal to a broad range of people, like The Simpsons does. Futurama has always had a specialized appeal (BTW, I remember it being very heavily promoted in its first season), and Family Guy was never popular at all beyond a small but very loyal fan base, not enough to justify keeping a show on the air.

I get tired of network-bashing, frankly. The networks always get the blame; when a show is bad, the creators blame "network interference," but will they ever talk about the times when network interference improves a show? Not bloody likely. (And yes, it does happen. Sometimes the network execs correctly identify that something sucks and say "change it." Hell, at this point The Simpsons might do well to take more notes from the network, since their "creative freedom" has led to the show being a mess. Whereas back in the Golden Age, the show had James L. Brooks coming in to rewrite the scripts, and they had to cowtow to his wishes -- in other words, even though they were answering to Brooks instead of the network, the writing staff did not have total creative freedom; and a good thing too.)

I somewhat agree with your point. I actually agree with Fox that Futurama is a bit too dark. I mean, violence against animals is too dark for the creators of Grand Theft Auto yet on Futurama we frequently see animals being eaten alive. I mean, I don't see what's funny about cute animals getting eaten alive. I find it rather disgusting and it makes me want to turn off the TV. Maybe if they took Fox's advice and toned down on the violence the show might have succeeded.


Originally posted by Jaime_Weinman
Sure, Fox is annoying, and they have an obvious problem in that they have limited patience with anything that isn't a hit right away like The Simpsons was. But it's just so much easier for Groening to blame Futurama's relative failure on the network. And I don't think it's completely accurate. (And Groening is frankly very self-serving in a lot of the things he says. To this day he glosses over or downplays the vital role of Sam Simon -- arguably the true creative force behind The Simpsons -- in making that show.)

ADDENDUM to what I wrote about Fox's impatience: I think it's clear that the shows that last on Fox tend to be the ones that make a big splash right away, i.e. "The Simpsons," "Malcolm in the Middle." "King of the Hill" has survived its recent lukewarm ratings because it was a big hit in its first season or two. I don't think Fox has ever had the guts to do what NBC did with "Cheers" or "Seinfeld," which was to stick with a show that initially wasn't a hit, and wait for it to find an audience and become a hit.

Actually, Party of Five was originally a ratings dud then it got nominated by TV Guide as the "Best show you're not watching" and it eventually became a hit. So, it's not entirely true that Fox never sticks with a ratings loser. But, it is pretty rare.

[Fireswarm]

Futurama's ratings last year were bad esp. on Tuesdays, but recently they have been okay. Futurama will never get higher than second due to it timeslot, mostly because it goes up against (NFL/60 Minutes/Dateline). Unlike other shows Fox has canceled Futurama doesn't have bad ratings. Fox's entire Friday ratings are nearly half of what Futurama's are and dead last in thier targeted demographics. Futurama on the other hand rated higher than KoTH in the same demographic. The only thing Futurama has flat ratings, plus the MG vs. Fox TV tiff, makes it likely it will the highest rated show this season for FOX to be formally canceled.


Possible/Already FOX canceled shows
Andy Richter 4.6
Pulse 2.2
Firefly 2.5
Fastlane 3.2
John Doe 4.0
Futurama 5.0
*Their are others but didn't air more than a month

It may be that Oliver Been may be Futurama's replacement, esp. since it is place between FOX's Sunday highest rated shows, without a major drop off, but OB iis hurting Malcolm's rating (down 1.0 point).

[jeffrey 228]

Oh please, Fox has got to be crazy because they Brong us the Simpsons, King of the Hill now on it's 7th season and Futurama, why mess with the shows, I mean that is bad.

[Conan-san]

Originally posted by Master Moron
I somewhat agree with your point. I actually agree with Fox that Futurama is a bit too dark. I mean, violence against animals is too dark for the creators of Grand Theft Auto yet on Futurama we frequently see animals being eaten alive. I mean, I don't see what's funny about cute animals getting eaten alive. I find it rather disgusting and it makes me want to turn off the TV. Maybe if they took Fox's advice and toned down on the violence the show might have succeeded.

And maybe Eva should of stoped at the TV episode 26 *Sarcasum*
If Matt to that advice then he would end up doing a whole load of other crap that whould turn Futureama (and eventuly the simpsons) into the Us equivilent of Dragonball GT.

To whit, Matt would be Fox's ***** as Toriama-sama was Toei's *****. (No disrespect to the guy).

[Exatron]

Originally posted by Master Moron
I somewhat agree with your point. I actually agree with Fox that Futurama is a bit too dark. I mean, violence against animals is too dark for the creators of Grand Theft Auto yet on Futurama we frequently see animals being eaten alive. I mean, I don't see what's funny about cute animals getting eaten alive. I find it rather disgusting and it makes me want to turn off the TV. Maybe if they took Fox's advice and toned down on the violence the show might have succeeded.

What isn't funny about a cute animal being swallowed hole? It's not like they were torn to bloody pieces before being eaten or anything that actually is disgusting.

The show's writers were right to ignore Fox's demands, even if the network did punish them by putting the show in a bad timeslot.

[Jaime_Weinman]

No show in the history of television has ever been "punished" by being put in a bad timeslot. Network execs, however annoying they may be, don't want shows to get disappointing ratings. Because if the ratings disappoint, then the execs tend to get, well, fired.

The assumption always seems to be that if the network moves a show to the wrong timeslot, it's because they want it to fail. Never happens. It's always the result of a wrong decision or plain stupidity, never some conspiracy to kill a show. In the case of "Futurama" we see two Fox problems working simultaneously: One is expecting a show to do too much (i.e. moving "The Simpsons" to Thursday nights, which didn't kill the show but certainly hurt its ratings). The other is impatience, so if a show doesn't do as well as they're hoping in one timeslot, they move it to another one rather than waiting to let it build a following.

[shogunthethird]

being an amateur writer myself I find myself Identifying with the creative staff on this, citing for example the previous cases such as Kevin Smith's unfortunate stint with ABC over "clerks:TAS" and Jhnen Vasquez's dealings with Nick and the downright gutting of Invader Zim, unfortunately TV is a business, and as often is the case, true art is often tossed in favor of pleasing the mainstream audience who more often than not are quite frankly.....morons with no taste whatsoever, unable to think for themselves(with apologies to Dennis Miller), but that's just my opinion I could be wrong

[Scythemantis]

Futurama appealed to a LOT of people. Pretty much all the simpsons/groening fans obviously enjoyed it, fans of animated comedies in general enjoyed it, and sci-fi fans enjoyed it for its great in-jokes, satire and easter eggs. It did indeed get great ratings.

[Digu Volz]

Doesn't look like he's bashing them, just being honest and creative about it. 'Brutal' honesty is over-rated.

[PowerZord]

finally he revolts against fox! futurama was good in the first seasons. the last season wasn't so good. the simpsons are way better than futurama. i think the only animated show that was better than both was Family guy.


malcom and king of the hill are good. and i still can't belive they fired the guy who created bernie mac

[okendri]

Fox did give Futurama a bad time slot. Usually when games during the football run late it always is preempted. By the time the football season is over, most people have forgotten about Futurama. Also are you guys forgetting about 24 as a good show on Fox.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Actually, sci-fi shows are notorious for their low ratings, comedy or not. They are very much a "geek" culture, and most sci-fi shows survive by building up a sizeably loyal fanbase, like X-Files or the Star Trek shows. But the majority of them end up like Sliders or Futurama--they get some fanbase, but not nearly big enough to compete in a prime-time slot.

[Master Moron]

And maybe Eva should of stoped at the TV episode 26 *Sarcasum*
If Matt to that advice then he would end up doing a whole load of other crap that whould turn Futureama (and eventuly the simpsons) into the Us equivilent of Dragonball GT.

To whit, Matt would be Fox's ***** as Toriama-sama was Toei's *****. (No disrespect to the guy).

I think if anything the company's involved with Evangelion WANTED the End of Evangelion movie to come out, after seeing such a dissapointing ending to the TV series. Hell, if the company's involved with Evangelion didn't push for the creators to make the movie, we might not have seen it. Sometimes creators need a little push in the right direction. I think Fox was trying to push Futurama in the right direction, but Matt Groening didn't like being pushed and he suffered the consequences.

As for Dragonball GT, I think the Simpsons already is into it's GT years, it's going on past the point that the creator wants it to go. Matt is Fox's *****, but quite frankly I don't see what's so bad about GT, nor do I see what's so bad about the new episodes of the Simpsons.

[Robin2099]

I don't think Fox has ever had the guts to do what NBC did with "Cheers" or "Seinfeld," which was to stick with a show that initially wasn't a hit, and wait for it to find an audience and become a hit. Well they have before but it's really rare. Only Married with Children and The X-Files wee able to get past that stigma. And even then it was mainly because FOX had nothing to loose by keeping them on.

[HelloKittyKat]

No show in the history of television has ever been "punished" by being put in a bad timeslot.

Star Trek did, in its third and final season

[wrenchien]

I somewhat agree with your point. I actually agree with Fox that Futurama is a bit too dark. I mean, violence against animals is too dark for the creators of Grand Theft Auto yet on Futurama we frequently see animals being eaten alive. I mean, I don't see what's funny about cute animals getting eaten alive. I find it rather disgusting and it makes me want to turn off the TV. Maybe if they took Fox's advice and toned down on the violence the show might have succeeded.



Actually, Party of Five was originally a ratings dud then it got nominated by TV Guide as the "Best show you're not watching" and it eventually became a hit. So, it's not entirely true that Fox never sticks with a ratings loser. But, it is pretty rare.

... i still keep wishing for groenig to actually pull off life in hell, btw.

there's more than enough content, almost southparkish, for him to make a series off them.

hey , if cn needs a good series for adult swim, they should contact him about life in hell if simpsons ever passes on.

me, i dont' find animals ate alive funny.

not in real life, anyway.

[Exatron]

No show in the history of television has ever been "punished" by being put in a bad timeslot.

That's a rather bold statement to make, especially when Matt Groening and David Cohen both indicated that the show was given a bad timeslot because Fox felt Groening lied to them when he pitched the show as being "Just like The Simpsons" and when the writers refused marketing notes on how to make the show "funnier." Fox is not the first network to do such a thing, and it certainly won't be the last.

[ClockStomper]

That's a rather bold statement to make, especially when Matt Groening and David Cohen both indicated that the show was given a bad timeslot because Fox felt Groening lied to them when he pitched the show as being "Just like The Simpsons" and when the writers refused marketing notes on how to make the show "funnier." Fox is not the first network to do such a thing, and it certainly won't be the last.

Not to mention the lack of advertising. Cartoon Network has aired more ads for the show in an eleven week run than the show got in it's entire time on FOX (is what's happening now even counting as being "on" the network? Something else usually airs in it's supposed time spot, and it's been at least a year since we've gotten two new episodes in a row in the same timeslot.)

Giving the re-runs to Cartoon Network was probably the best decision they made, but they insist on pretending they're airing the show-just give CN all the episodes already!

[Andrew T. Hingson]

Gone are the great days of television (especially for Fox). I wouldn't say Simpsons are in their GT years, but they certainly aren't up to snuff with the old stuff, but I did enjoy the 300th and 301st episodes. Funny stuff.

I must say TMNT and Futurama, Malcom (well actually I haven't watched it in a LONG time), and the Simpsons (ditto like Malcom) are the ONLY good shows on Fox. TMNT is Fox Box's saving grace, and should be moved to Cartoon Network where it would get the recognition it deserves.

But then again most channels don't put out great shows anymore so it's just a common trend. We'll all have to be reduced to watching reruns on DVD for the rest of our days if this keeps up...