Fresh Question #49: Multi Parters!

[Nightwing]

Hey all. It's Fresh Question time. Let's get going, huh? :)

A lot of Batman/Superman fans always say, "the more multi-parters, the better." Would you say the same for Justice League? How many 2 or multi part episodes do you want in JL, and what stories would they cover??

[Karkull]

Word is that they'll all be two or three parters.

Personally, I'd love to see a two or three episode story with Magog from Kingdom Come. To me, most superhero characters come in two categories: the classic, "old-fashioned" superhero (cape, spandex costume, clean cut, won't kill...example: Superman) and the "new order" superhero (big guns, costumes that resemble military fatigues, facial scars, will kill...classic example: Cable). And, since Cable is a Marvel Comics superhero, I feel that Magog fills that void in the DC Universe.

I see two potential story arcs with Magog. The first arc would be a twist on Cable's origin, in which Magog comes back in time to stop a villain from causing a disaster (maybe Von Bach--another Kingdom Come character) and, from the start, his style of crimefighting would rub Superman the wrong way. It would be revealed that, in his past, Magog suffered some injuries and was rebuilt by a government program (like Weapon X), but it isn't until the end, however, that he realizes that his actions were responsible for the disaster that crippled him and would set him on the path towards becoming what he presently is.

The second one would involve him creating a rival Justice League (the Justice Battalion from Kingdom Come) that would take care of problems by any means necessary (like the the characters in DC/Wildstorm's Authority series), which would set up an ongoing grudge match between the two teams. His team would consist of six additional members (for a seven on seven fight--I'd choose Lightning, Demon Damsel, Phoebus, Manotaur, and Nuculoid from [U] Kingdom Come[U]; plus the Huntress [they've always wanted to use her!).

Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I really want to see this somewhere down the road.

[Bird Boy]

as many as possible!!

History on each of the characters would be great....

Or, you have the classic "Hero Captured, can't get out..another hero comes to his/her rescue" type of story.

I always loved Two-Parters, they put so much more into the story..it was just great.

-BB

[Karkull]

What about a three-part episode where the Justice League faces Brainiac and, during the course of the story arc, it is revealed through flashbacks that Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, and maybe even Martian Manhunter have also had encounters with it in the past. Together, the three-parter would play kind of like an extended version of Almost Got 'Em.

A few months ago it was posted that Brainiac might make an appearance in the second season, so it could happen (there's probably a better chance of this than any of my Magog episode ideas happening!).

[James Harvey]

If they did KINGDOM COME, I'd be in heaven. I would like to see them do TOWER OF BABEL, and the inital WHITE MARTIANS arc from the JLA series. There's not really any others I can think of...

[Birdman]

I'd like to see one of two story arcs done.

First I'd like to see a three-parter of the Crisis On Infinite Worlds idea. I'd love to see the old Charlton heroes animated as well as numerous others like the Metal Men, Metamorpho, Phantom Stranger, the Demon, Spectre, the Crime Syndicate, etc. I think it'd be great to see them all in animated action.

Secondly, I'd like to see a three-parter dealing with GL(Hal Jordan) turning rogue(this would fit in with the Mongul episode they have planned maybe?) and ultimately sacrificing his life(thus incorporating elements of "The Final Night" story arc in the comics). I think it'd be a cool adaptation of the two classic stories and would be incredible in animation.

In addition, I'd like to see a two-parter story arc which deals with the first meeting between the JL and the JSA(which I now understand MAY be the series finale this seaon---I can't wait!).

As for gueststars? I'd like to see animated versions of the following;

The Heroes:

-The Doom Patrol(the 60's version)
-The New Gods
-Phantom Stranger
-Deadman
-Azreal
-Challengers of the Unknown
-Blue Beetle
-Capt. Atom
-Capt. Marvel
-The Atom & Hawkman
-Red Tornado II
-Creeper(again)

The Villains:

-Eclipso
-Felix Faust
-Chemo
-Doomsday
-Baron Blood
-Hellgrammite
-Vandal Savage
-The Shaggy Man
-Crime Syndicate of Earth X

Just a few suggestions I'd love to see...:D

[DisneyBoy]

Honestly, I worry that the JL show will have waay to much to get into if they start trying to incorporate previously told stories or characters into their series. I realize the fans are just wishing, as I have often done, but I hope that rather than turning JL into a variety show, like the late Adventures in the DC Universe was, the writers will focus on character development as well as the expected massive fight sequences. I just re-watched the classic "Laughing Fish" episode today, and was once again amazed by the way the episode generated so much mystery and suspence without having Batman punch someone out every two seconds. That's the sort of writing I like to see.

As far as multiparters go, I would love to see a well done, maybe series finale (hopefuly years from now!) that teams Brainiac up with Ra's Al Ghul. As you all now, Ghul wants a world free of humans, save his select few, and Braniac wants the world-period. If the Machine were to convince the Man (or monster in Ghul's case) to trust him, the two could easily destroy earth, though we know Brainiac would eventually turn on Ra's. I always hoped this kind of a crossover story would be written between the pages of Batman Gotham Adventures and Superman Adventures...:(

I really want Wonder Woman to be protrayed as a sort of innocent newcomer (Like in George Perez's amazing series), but since I know she will instead be protrayed as the snotty warrior, (not that that really matters) she absolutely HAS to go up against ARES!!! I want to see her background and history explained.

I would also like to see a storyline somewhere down the road in which (gasp) ...Hawkgirl dies! (In combat versus Darkseid perhaps) I know that I don't know a thing about her and that I may love her, but I see her as a tag-along to the Real Justice League: WW, Bats, Supes, GL, Flash, MM and Aquaman. I think it would give her character a greater importance to the show to eventually leave in some way, as strange as that sounds. I would also like to see John Steward (is that his name?) retire and introduce Kyle Rayner to the group. I also don't know much about him either, but I guess I always liked the Adventures in the DCU JL line up. I think Kyle could easily be written into the show (Perhaps between "In Brightest Day" and JL, he goofed up as a Green Lantern and was demoted, forced to retire or, as others have said, remained in training-I know nothing about the Laterns!) and it would be great for J. S. to be written out. I think an episode written about how he feels a need to be with his wife and kids rather than save the world every day, and how he begins to train Kyle for JL would give the other characters, especially Bruce and Clark, cause for reflection. No one wants to be a hero all their life. We all need a family, love, a home and privacy. I think I could see Mr. Steward giving up his ring in exchange for that. Besides, he sounds like he will have a waaay too serious personality for a show with MM and Batsy in it. Kyle would bring in younger blood to the show once the original cast grows stale. I loved the way he and Flash (Wally) bickered in Adventures in the DCU.

So if I could see all this, plus a storyline focusing on their alter egos (To ignore Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne is to lesson Batman and Superman) would be wonderful. Less guest stars, more content! Less fight scenes, more interpersonal relationships! And Please let Timm and Dini reunite and create one last, final masterpiece to appropriately (as in- no Batman Beyond junk!) end the magnificent Animated Batman legacy they've created...
I can see it now.............Batman: Final Knights!

[Birdman]

Hi guys!

I just wanted to take up some of the points brought up by Disneyboy and give my meager $.02 on them.

While I can agree with the notion that the new JL show would have tremendous difficulty with adapting old JLA stories into the series, REALLY don't want to see alot of "character development" style stories. I've rarely liked such stories in the comics(I've been collecting them for 34 yrs now) and much prefer to be entertained with grandious battles between the good and evil in the DC Universe.

I'd much rather prefer a tale about the JL vs Darkseid or the Anti-Monitor than learning about what "drives/motivates" a character. I feel those needed insights can easily be revealed while not spending an entire story on periferal character information. But that's just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions, right?

To me, the JL should be about the heroes, not their secret identities for me. I would not care to see an entire episode wasted,in my opinion, on their alter egos. I'm watching it for heroic action and spectacular battles against extraodinary foes. I feel many of the recent superhero cartoon efforts have been lackluster in such action when they retool "character development" stories. I don't want the human stories...I want the hero stories. Again, that's just moi.

Also on the John Stewart/Kyle Rayner issue... I feel John Stewart is a necessary component for the team's diversity. Flash is supposed the "young rebel/ladies man" for the "younger demographic so replacing John with Kyle would just be duplication, not in exact character traits, but in the effort of trying to entice the same young demo groups that the Flash will bring in. Plus there's the whole issue of having ethnic diversity involved.

Personally I'm an "old schooler" who will never see anyone but Hal Jordan as GL and Barry Allen as the Flash, but I understand the need to have comics evolve for it's preservation.

I really hope that the JL series comes out with both guns blazing with respect to it's action content. It's been a long time since a superhero cartoon series has really gotten me this excited and anxious for it's debut. Batman:TAS was great with it's stories involving The Demon, Ra's Al Ghul, Jonah Hex, The Creeper in addition to all the classic battles with the Batman's rogue gallery. Same for Superman:TAS with it's actionpacked stories involving Lobo, Dr Fate, Flash, GL & Aquaman. That's the type of stories I'm hoping the JL brings to the small screen.

Being an avid collector of both comics and old cartoons, I miss the all-action style of the 1960's cartoons like Birdman, Mightor, Space Ghost, Fantastic Four, Spiderman, etc.

Sure, they look campy by today's fantastic animation standards, but for a child of 6 yrs old on any Saturday morning in 1968, man.... they were the greatest.

I'm hoping the JL will be MORE than equal to the task.

Birdman
Professional kid-at-heart :)

[Karkull]

Hey, Birdman, can't we have both? I mean, the best episodes of the Batman and Superman shows were the ones that deftly combined the eye-dazzling action sequences with in-depth character development. It was these factors that made the cast of these show equal, if not surpass, the depth of their comic book counterparts. Without it, we're back to watching the Superfriends.

What about the Justice League vs. the Crime Syndicate (the cool version from Grant Morrison's Earth 2 book)?

[Birdman]

Well Karkull, in response to your question of "can't we have both?"...my answer to that would..sure, we could have both. But I'd like the percentage to be about 80% action vs 20% character development. The public knows who these heroes are(for the most part) and why they do what they do. I just don't need to see and hear the animated angst of any of them to the point that it sacrifices an entire episode, that's all.

Believe me, Karkull... NOONE wants to see the Superfriends again including moi. It was a welcomed sight when it first debuted due to all the cool superhero action cartoons(like Birdman, Space Ghost,etc.) being taken off the air due to the protests of parent/teachers organizations around the country back in '68-69. It was great to see the DC heroes back on the small screen, even if the stories were contrived and campy.

That was then.
This is now.

Today's animation styles(Bruce Timm's style especially) and better writing(and lesser restrictions of mature content due to it being "on cable") should allow for better action and still allow the needful viewer his little insight to each character.

I REALLY don't want rehashes of their origins. We all know them by heart(until DC retros them again anyways!). Let's get past those run-of-the-mill character developments and maybe work a little more with say...maybe interaction between the heroes. Now THAT is something I'd be able to accept. A little inhouse fighting or bickering would lend to the atmosphere of the team and the team dynamics.

The other aspect of "character development" that I'd like NOT to see, is the typical "day in the life of the alter ego" storyline. I'm watching the JL to see the heroes strap on their spandex and stick it to the baddies, not watching Wally West bemoan the fact that he can't get a date on Saturday night or Superman whining about the pressure of being 'Superman' or Batman kavetching about how the younger team members aren't battle-ready in his eyes.

I'm sure there's a way to keep the droning make-your-eyes-glaze-over, makes-your-hair-hurt type of character development storylines to a minimum and still have a great story without it reverting to the immaturish campy style of the Superfriends.

Here's to hoping it can become a reality. :^)

I think another great JLA comic story that'd be cool to see animated is Morrison's storyarc where the JLA discovers that Batman had been keeping secret files on all his JLA teammates and those files fell into the wrong hands. Now THAT would be some serious character development I wouldn't mind watching!

Take care all!

Birdman
Professional Kid-at-Heart :)

[Karkull]

I think I understand your comments a little better, Birdman. I agree with you--there is a major difference between character development and whiny angst. I would vomit repeatedly if all the Justice League characters did was complain about how tough they have it as superheroes.

(The only exception is Batman, but it can only happen roughly once every 85-100 episodes [the episode I Am the Night handled it beautifully!]).

[Xtreme557]

I'd like to see more orignal stories, but if they adapt a few I'd like to see JLA: Earth-2. It was by far Grant's best JLA story. :cool:

[JLU Dude]

I wouldn't mind seeing a massive animated universe crossover. Have all the superheroes and superheroines in the animated Universe meet each other.

[CarterHall]

I, for one, was a bit disappointed when I heard that the JSA won't be appearing in the series, being replaced by all-new "older" heroes.

I do think that the JL needs to fight the Crime Syndicate. That would be a really good knock-down-drag-out fight story. Watching the parallels between the CS and their JL counterparts would make a cool show.

A Magog story could work, but I think that maybe a 4-parter Crisis story would really kick some serious *****. It would give the animators a chance to really cut loose. But, you'd have to keep the guest stars down a little. Maybe 10 heroes besides the League. Here are my candidates:

Captain Atom
Blue Beetle
Captain Marvel
Dr.Fate
Supergirl
Metamorpho
Nightwing
Zatanna
Aquaman
Firestorm

What do you guys think? :confused:

[TerryMcGuiness]

I to am ticked off that Bruce Timm will not get to do his JSA story. Did they ever explain what the bug up DC's butt actually was over that?

Though I will admit, that I'm intrested in seeing what Bruce Timm creates out of this.

Consider, the Pre-Crisis conceit that the Earth 2 heroes were comicbook characters on Earth 1. So, you could easily make the 'real' Grey Ghost a member of this team. The reaction from Batman would be priceless. :D