"Daredevil" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

Mattashell

02-14-2003, 06:22 PM

I saw the movie Daredevil.

Hi, this is Matt. I went in to the movie with very low expectations, Mark Johnson is one of the biggest hacks in Hollywood. The movie was ultimately bad, and good. So I was, in the end, relieved. It was nowhere near as bad as I expected, especially after the review in this week's The Stranger.

There are many little things I want to nitpick, but the the big problem with the movie is Elektra. Played by some hack actress from one of those prime time dramas I avoid. I won't even bother to learn her name because I don't really care to know it after this performance. Not only was she terrible, but the character was horribly written. I can (and will) complain about differences between "movie" Elektra, and her comic counterpart, but the sad truth is, even as a stand alone work, whenever Elektra was on the screen the movie started to suck.

Here is my list of changes from the comics I did NOT like.

1) Daredevil's origin. Most of the changes in the details were fine with me, even better, but he really should have lost his sight, saving someone, and that person should be blind. That is an integral part of the theme that defines Murdock.

2) Jack "The Devil" instead of "Battling" Jack.

3) Elektra's father should be a Greek Ambassador, it's cool that he spoke greek at one point, but when he spoke English he had no accent.

4) Daredevil is a cold blooded killer. He might as well have finished Fisk off, he did it to everyone else. What is this? The Punisher?

5) Where the Hell is Stick? Did Johnson ever actually read a DD comic?

6) How about the Turk?

7) Daredevil's secret brownstone gym is too Batcavish, with the cowls and costumes and what not.

8) speaking of costumes, even though we've all known what it looks like for a while, it still doesn't agree with me.

Here is my list of changes from the comics I DID like.

1) Daredevil's radar being an extension of his super-hearing. This makes sense actually.

2) Murdock sleeps in a sens-dep tank.

3) No tights for Bullseye.

4) The mechanisms of Daredevil's amazing billy-club are a lot more logical.

Basicly the first 45 minutes were great, untill Elektra showed up. The entire cast had me worried, but Afleck was adiquate, and he looked a lot like Murdock does in the comics. Colin Farrell was a different take on bullseye, but it worked just perfectly. Actually, it wasn't long before I saw him as being just like the comic version. I really liked the scene on the airplane, where both his utter lack of compassion and his powers were displayed. A perfect definition for a newcomer unfamiliar with him. Michael Clarke Duncan may have been one of my biggest concerns, especially because Kingpin is a white guy. But when I saw him on the screen I said, "Now that IS the Kingpin." and when I heard him speak I felt even more strongly about it. Black or white, I can't think of anyone else built for that roll. I didn't know Joey Pants was in the movie, he was a pleasant surprise. I've always liked him. The kid from Tadpole was in it too, he's cool.

The other real negative thing is the plot. When you break it down, all the conflict present, revolves around Fisk having various individuals assassinated, without an adiquate motivation presented to the audience. We are told that Kingpin is controlling all the "crime" in the city, and that Natchios wants "out". but if you break it down, that just isn't enough for me to justify this whole film and all the fighting and killing and everything. I mean couldn't we have a little more explanation. Maybe Kingpin is up to something big Natchios doesn't want a part of. I just feel the villain should have a plan the hero needs to thwart, other than the vague "controlling crime" line they fed us. Basicly this was all about revenge for Murdock.

It was cool that they gave some nods to comic creators, but I think they went a bit overboard with the name dropping. It seemed every character, even people mentioned, that wasn't from the comic, had some artist's or writer's name. What statement were they making by running over Joe Quesada with a subway train? :p I like that they went through with Elekra's death (are you watching Raimi?), that is until that necklace showed up. :rolleyes:

Anyway, to get back on Elektra, Murdock was out of character to act the way he did aproaching her, and that sparring scene was completely stupid. The worst part of the movie.

To sum up my statements, here are the big problems with Daredevil.

1) Elektra is a lousy character, and she is played by a lousy actress.

2) Daredevil is a filthy murderer and herasser of women.

3) The plot desires more substance.

Otherwise it would have been a great flick. ***

Yuss

02-14-2003, 06:43 PM

Woo... just got back. I hate seeing movies on Friday nights, what with the Valentines lovers and such. Oh well, it was worth it.

What a great movie. I'm not a Daredevil fan, and I'd never even heard of the comic until I heard of the movie. So as a standalone watcher with no Daredevil experience, I can say I did enjoy this movie.

It wasn't the incredible lord of all movies that I was kinda hoping for. Nothing life-changing. Nothing I'm going to stay up all night thinking about. Just a good 2 (?) hours of one sweet action flick.

I have to agree with Matt there that there indeed was no plot. I can imagine how jarring that would be for a fan; my sympathies.

I also agree with the reviews that it was short. Much shorter than it was supposed to be, apparently, because as was said the editing job was miserable. It was way too fast-paced. There was no reason this couldn't have been longer.

Obviously this was focused more on action than on anything else, and in that respect it succeeded incredibly. The action scenes are all great, especially DD vs. Bullseye in the church. Just awesome. MM vs. Elektra in the park, however, was random and pretty stupid. They just meet and suddenly they both break out into advanced martial arts. This movie obviously wasn't trying to be all that realistic-- just a live-action comic book, without a lot of explanation for the "super"ness of the characters. Not that that's a problem.

All the reviews have mentioned how great Bullseye is, and I have to concur. Colin Farrell's just awesome. Bullseye manages to be really cool and really hilarious-- pretty much the only comic relief in a very dark film. One can appreciate that they focused all the humor into one character and didn't try to stuff it other places where it didn't belong as so many movies do.

The characters were pretty cool. Well-defined and all that. Some of the writing was fairly lame at points but again this wasn't much of a thought-provoking movie anyway. They went for a dark Batmanesque atmosphere, and it was pulled off pretty nicely. Very dark and gloomy and stuff. Mmhmm.

I don't think I'll need to see this movie again: I got everything I need to get out of it. It's a great action movie and a fantastic summer flick in the middle of winter. There's a good chance I'll see it again, though, by the time it's out of theaters.

The theater wasn't packed as I had expected, though I guess this wasn't the definitive Valentine's Day movie. I really hope this does well. It'd be terrible if it bombed.

I definitely recommend anyone with doubts to see it. Although I guess it's up to you to trust a nonmoviegoing dateless loser who doesn't read comics. :D

*****

~B+:

Terminatah

02-14-2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Mattashell
4) Daredevil is a cold blooded killer. He might as well have finished fisk off, he did it to everyone else. What is this? The Punisher? Well, that's one of the changes Daredevil goes through during the movie. He doesn't want to be like the bad guys he's fighting, so he decides to stop killing people. After telling the priest he was right, he was all ready to quit the mantle. Killing Kingpin would've undercut that.

Originally posted by Evil Dr. Reef
especially Ben Affleck, who was suprisingly good as Daredevil. Ben Affleck is a good actor. People forget about this because of his overblown celebrity status and slight tendency to gravitate towards the Hollywood blockbusters. Same goes for guys like Nicolas Cage or Leonardo DiCaprio. You can't let the name overshadow the talent.

As for the movie, it was great. Lots of fun. I think my favorite line was the one by Favreau about the salsa dancing. :D

-Terminatah

DarkAngel

02-14-2003, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by Mattashell
There are many little things I want to nitpick, but the the big problem with the movie is Elektra. Played by some hack actress from one of those prime time dramas I avoid. I won't even bother to learn her name because I don't really care to know it after this performance. Not only was she terrible, but the character was horribly written.
I find that extremely hard to believe given that I've seen just about every episode of Alias and consider her performances there excellent.

Storm

02-14-2003, 08:17 PM

I can't wait.... :D

Anyway how was the X2 trailer. PM it to me please :)

Oh yeah I disagree about Jennifer Garner beening a lousy actress. How have to watch the show ("Alias") before you judge the actress Mattashell. Watching just one movie of her will not prove nothing. Not to start a fight but I thought I had to point that out.

Yuss

02-14-2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Storm
Anyway how was the X2 trailer. Very cool.

Anyone see that trailer for... "Willard", was it? Guy with the rats? I'd never heard of that movie... looks really weird. The trailer was kinda cool though. I liked when he was coming out of the elevator and the thousands of rats poured out... har har.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen looks much, much cooler than I had expected.

And I'm torn on Chris Rock's "Head of State"... such a moronic premise, such a hilarious trailer.

~B+:

Mattashell

02-14-2003, 08:29 PM

Oh well. At least we can all agree to disagree anyway. :D

There are some things I forgot to mention. The CGI was not overdone, and it was nearly flawless. By taking advantage of the dark settings of the action scenes, we didn't have to suffer through anything too fake looking.

I did not like the use of songs in the movie one bit.

Originally posted by ~B+
The theater wasn't packed as I had expected, though I guess this wasn't the definitive Valentine's Day movie. I really hope this does well. It'd be terrible if it bombed.

I noticed this too. Valentines Day is a stupid opening day for an actioner like this one, especially since the romance aspect of the comics was under-developed in the film. Maybe they figured "Well his costume is red, so..." :p

The theatre was not full like when I saw Spider-Man, and that wasn't even opening day. I worry that this film will not do well, and Daredevil will not see the cinema screen in any sequels or future franchise.

I noticed that with Bullseye dead, Elektra dead (maybe), and Kingpin in jail, there is not any easy door to a sequel, unless they resort to some second rate villains.

Comic Book Boy

02-14-2003, 09:35 PM

Bullseye is NOT dead. If you stay after the credits you will see a funny part w/ a very hurt Bullseye in the Hospital/Jail.

***.5 stars

Meh.

It was okay I don't really want to talk about it. It was kinda stupid watching Matt and Elektra fight in a playground (what kinda example does that set for younsters ;))

If Batman was made more realistic....it would be a hit.
Ditto w/ DareDevil.

It was pretty good though.

I think Electra is alive.

The Guard

02-14-2003, 09:44 PM

OVERALL

A fun movie. A good movie, with lots of cool "peeing in pants" fanboy moments, and cool one-liners. But it's not the best superhero movie ever. It's not even in the top five. It was uber-cool because it was dark, and a different look at the superhero genre.

PLOT

The plot was a little weak. Whether the deleted scenes and extra material had something to do with this, I don't know. But I didn't get a sense of the threat that The Kingpin posed. He was just kind of there. The plot seemed to be Matt & Elektra, for the most part. At least those were the parts that got the most love. I'm assuming that it all fits together in the R-rated, director's cut.

DIALOGUE

Some of it was good. Some of it was cliche-ridden. But dialogue like the "Heaven Train" moment made this movie. So, overall, the dialogue was excellent. The voiceovers, I didn't like. They were over-the-top and sounded forced when Affleck delivered them.

ACTING

Overall, the acting in DAREDEVIL doesn't stack up to past superhero films. The bit parts, the thugs, and some of the child roles, weren't real good.

Ben Affleck:

Ben was the best part of this movie. He was just fantastic. He showed a real love for the character that few superhero movie actors (McKellan is one) have. He was Daredevil. He was Matt Murdock. He conveyed his emotions very well, even with the glasses on. His fighting looked good. His running didn't. Was that him running half the time, because it looked like CGI almost.

Jennifer Garner:

She wasn't bad, but I wasn't impressed. Garner was excellent with the sais. But at other times, she was kind of stilted actingwise. She couldn't handle simple moments like "It's beautiful" without going over-the-top. At one point, he says "I didn't kill your father", and she said "Liar!" about as badly as it can be said in that context? I mean, was she mad or horny there?

Michael Clarke Duncan

Duncan's Kingpin was great. He should have had a little more screentime. Duncan was everything I've ever imagined The Kingpin to be. Cold, cruel, and ruthless. And his action sequences were awesome.

Colin Farrel:

Colin Farrel was, as I have said (based on the trailers), and suspected for a long time, OVER-THE-TOP. And not a good over-the-top. There's psychotic, and then there's "serial villain psychotic". Colin Farrel was "serial villain pyschotic". His charisma saved his performance, which, I will admit, was good. But without that charisma, Bullseye would have been almost campy. How old is this character? Because at times, Farrel played him like a five year old, with the wide eyes. The accent didn't do it for me. I heard there was going to be one, but the accent Farrel used was pretty heavy. There wasn't much special about Farrel's performance that a hundred other actors couldn't do. Ok, so he grunted and growled. Big deal. He did "over-the-top", but forgot to come across as menacing, or dangerous, even when he killed a bunch of people. What he came across as was humorous. I get the feeling that's what was intended. And there was enough humor in DD without laughing when he killed the old woman on the plane.

Does the man know how to throw things? Yes, you can throw cards with a flick of the wrist, but you cannot propel a baton as far as he did throwing like that, or even the heavier shards of glass. His throwing motion looked really fake at times, him just extending his arm and opening his fingers in a "half-throw".

With all that said, he was entertaining as hell. I chalk that up to the charisma he has, and not any special talents or aspects that he brought to the character.

FIGHTING

The wire work and constant slo-mos didn't do it for me. If we're talking about DD, I'd rather see a movie where the fighting is realistic, and not BIRDS OF PREY, "do stuff because it looks cool onscreen" fighting. Some of the schoolyard sequence, the dramatic poses in between hitting each other, the stuff Bullseye felt he had to do...some of it wasn't too cool. However, the first DD fight scene in the bar was incredible. JUST what it should have been. The masked man striking from the shadows, a blur of motion, so fast it's hard to tell what's happening.

ATMOSPHERE

Was this a dark drama or a comedy? It was like MSJ couldn't decide, both while he was writing and directing. Some parts were dark, brooding, and some parts were over-the-top humor loaded moments, that at times detracted from the overall atmosphere of DAREDEVIL.

SPECIAL EFFECTS

Better then SPIDER-MAN, but I didn't like seeing DD performing things that a normal human being can't do, like propelling himself 40 feet out from a roof, or jumping from wall to wall to climb to a fire escape in the alley. The CGI was smooth for the most part, and the transitions between CGI and actors was well done. The radar sense was excellent.

PACING

What pacing? This movie didn't slow down. Even the quiet, drama moments were, as someone said, "Go go go!" The scenes progressed well, and I didn't feel any problems with the passages of time.

STYLE

What style? Whether it was his intention or not, MSJ was all over the place. Did he want the classic hero quest? A feel good story? It's hard to tell with all the CGI roses and such.

OTHER STUFF

The training sequence with the sais. Where did that come from? Who has a sai-training center in the middle of her mansion? I mean it was cool, until I thought about what was going on.

If Matt Murdock works for free, how does he finance his vigilantism? Where does he get the cash for 10 DD suits, and numerous weapons? For that matter, why does he need a Schumacheresque equipment chamber with eight sets of clubs?

There are some problems with realism. Characters doing impossible quadruple backflips at ridiculous points, and the main one I saw that bothered the hell out of me, the baton through chest. There's no way Bullsye could get enough on that baton from that distance to punch it through what it had to get through to kill Natchios.

FINALLY

MSJ, I know I've torn into this thing, but I can't help it. It's what I do. All nitpicks aside, thank you for showing people that a serious superhero can and does work. If WB doesn't pay attention to the atmosphere DAREDEVIL when making the next Batman movie, then they're fools.

cysurf

02-14-2003, 11:02 PM

I was really looking forward to seeing DD for months now, but I have to say I was a little dissapointed. I thought Affleck did a good job, but the rest of the characters were not really fleshed out. Don't get me wrong, it was ok, just nothing great.

creeper

02-15-2003, 12:58 AM

First i have to say.......if the sai isn't gonna hit you, why put your hand out. "ooooo.....let me catch it" yeah she paid for that didn't she

Too many stories in one movie. The spoiled any chance for a real anticipated sequel. that's all i have to say until i calm down from the whole sai thing.

The Guard

02-15-2003, 01:02 AM

Elektra didn't put her hand out. He threw it right through her hand. Like he said, he was better then she was.

Memphis Bleek

02-15-2003, 01:05 AM

DareDevil wasn't PG-13. Marvel must have called in a favor to the MPAA. I thought Matt Murdock was blinded by a radioactive isotope, but the radioactive waste blind him was understandable. Why would a kid be around a radioactive isotope in 2003. It would seem far-fetched.

The movie was grim and gritty. The way it was supposed to be. DareDevil isn't Spider-Man. Ben Affleck made me believe that he was Matt Murdock. Affleck made DareDevil seem human. Jon Favreau was superb in role as the comic relief. Affleck and Favreau were able to efficiently emulate Matt and Foggy. Jennifer Garner was sensational as Elektra Natchios. Garner did a great job as Murdock's girlfriend and temporary nemesis. I am glad the Casting Director didn't just get a starlet. Garner was able to handle the romantic scenes and the fast pace action sequences. Colin Farell played Bullseye like a crazied assassin. Farell breathed life into Bullseye. Michael Clarke Duncan personified the KingPin. The KingPin isn't some fat marshallow guy. KingPin is all muscle.

The plot was dark. DareDevil isn't happy go luck like Spider-man. The score was a key part of the movie and help to advance the plot. The early part of the movie gave sufficient background. The fight sequences were well choregraphed. The special effects' crew did a great job with DareDevil's senses. I love the way DareDevil dissected each of his enemies. The writer and director made it clear that DareDevil is willing to kill. Bullseye supposely killing Elektra stayed true to the comic. It was awesome how DareDevil took away Bullseye's most dangerous weapon. Bulleye's greatest strength became his greatest weakness. DareDevil and KingPin provide an amazing climax. KingPin smacking DareDevil around was spot on. You don't become the KingPin of Crime by being a cream puff! My jaw dropped when DareDevil broke both of KingPin's legs. You felt that DareDevil wasn't going to kill KingPin but it was still shocking.

My only problem with DareDevil was character development. Elektra, Bullseye, and Kingpin had no background. They just showed up and explained who they were. Jennifer Garner, Colin Farell, and Michael Clarke Duncan made his or her character more than one dimensional. I give kudos to them. I wonder if all of their background was edited for time constraints.

DareDevil was fabulous even with the little or no character development for Elektra, Bullseye, and KingPin. Daredevil was a good comic-to-film adaptation. I give DareDevil 4.5 stars out of 5 stars.

Sidenote: DareDevil in digital format was mesmerzing. The sound effects were realistic. I hope no one went to DareDevil because they thought he was Marvel's Batman.

creeper

02-15-2003, 01:08 AM

Elektra didn't put her hand out. He threw it right through her hand. Like he said, he was better then she was.

Actually i'm pretty sure she did. She was just standing there and as the sai was coming she put her hand out as if she was gonna catch it....me and my friends talked about it right after....it was only a few minutes ago

Leaping Larry Jojo

02-15-2003, 01:30 AM

This is just about the only forum I've come across where the majority of the people liked the movie.

Buddy Lee

02-15-2003, 01:30 AM

I saw Daredevil tonight and I really liked it. I gave it three and a half stars or a Thumbs Up, depends on what your movie scale is. I am not a huge fan of Affleck, but he did a very good job with the lead role. (Affleck was the bomb in "Phantoms".)

Colin Farrell stole the show as Bullseye. I was very impressed with his performance. Jennifer Garner brought a real strength and sexyness to her perfomance. MCD was the man as Kingpin.

I think a lot of the negative feedback is just nitpicking. As long as you are not expecting "Citizen Kane" or "Superman The Movie", you will enjoy this movie. This is a great action flick. With the trailers for the Hulk and X2, this will be a very Marvel summer. :p

Batmex

02-15-2003, 11:02 AM

Did anybody saw Stan Lee's cameo?

Also there was some extra stuff after the end credits with Bullseye!

Drachentöter

02-15-2003, 12:30 PM

This was a really good movie. Certainly not perfect, but it is a must-see for anyone with an ounce on interest in comic book mythos.

Daredevil: Yes, Affleck made the character work. Took me a while to admit this to myself, but Murdock would not be the same played by another actor. DD's radar powers seemed to fluctuate. He could see Joe Quesada crawling about the subway tunnel perfectly, but not Elektra when she placed the umbrella over her head. Oh, well. Dramatic lisence.

Elektra: *goofy chuckle* Jennifer Garner is hot.....Even without the looks, Elektra made a really strong female character. She herself didn't hurt the movie, though the situations she's put in kind've made me step back a bit. The fight in the playground was entirely unnecessary, just some Affleck-Garner eye candy. And anyone could see that it was Bullseye's doing that killed her father. And, yes, she's probably alive.

Bullseye: I'm the only one who didn't like this character at all. He had no personallity, just a random assortment of eccentric quirks. The accent was terrible and his dialogue....blah. His best line was "I missed." But then he ruined it by stating the obvious, "I never miss." Oh, is THAT why they call you Bullseye?

Kingpin: *round of applause for Michael Clarke Duncan* He just oozes suave evilness. Though tossing DD around like a frisbee is pretty unbelievable, the effort put into it by the character was great. And he shows pain! Tres cool!

Soundtrack: Best part of the movie. Certain parts were obvious plugs, but they worked. I will find this soundtrack if it's available. Fave song: The one during Elektra's training sequence.

Effects: Mixed bag. Affleck's acting may be good, but it's obvious his stunt work needed a little boost. The NYC skyline was well-done however. Still...too many hints of Matrix style...

That's all I find worth mentioning right now. I recommend this to anyone who hasn't seen it yet. You shouldn't regret it if you go with an open mind and a bag full of popcorn.

The Guard

02-15-2003, 12:36 PM

The playground thing would have been ok, if there hadn't been kids chanting "fight, fight, fight" (NONE of the kids in this film could act).

Bullseye: I'm the only one who didn't like this character at all. He had no personallity, just a random assortment of eccentric quirks. The accent was terrible and his dialogue....blah. His best line was "I missed." But then he ruined it by stating the obvious, "I never miss." Oh, is THAT why they call you Bullseye?

If Bullseye hadn't been such a neanderthal, I would have liked the character a lot more. But over-the-top grunting and growling, any fool can do that. There was nothing all that special about his performance.

silverwings

02-15-2003, 01:36 PM

I went into this movie really trying to like. I really, really wanted to like it. My overall feeling? Meh.

There were so many little, bothersome things that bothered me and I don't even read the Daredevil comics! (i feel so sorry for any fans of the series).

My thoughts:

*Affleck was a terrible choice. Whose bright idea was it to pick a A+ celebrity anyway? #1, he can't act. #2, he has no charisma. At all. I would have perfered a no-name actor or a lesser know actor. (kinda like Toby Mcquire wasn't so well known before spiderman)

*I didn't think Garner's Elecktra was any good. It came off as just another character from Alias to me. Instead of Jennifer playing Elecktra, it felt like Sydney playing Elecktra

*Terrible fight sequences. I haven't seen fight scenes choreographed this bad since. . . well. . . a long time. Jerky, blurry, too much matrix wannabe scenes. . . .

*Too many cheesy lines

*Hey, we just met, had a fight in a park w/ kids watching. let's have sex! this just bothered me. Totally unrealistic. You have one fight and now she loves him?

*Why is the millionare daughter training w/ bags of sand? Why does the poor lawyer have such a nice house when he gets paid w/ fish?

*terrible acting from the Kingpin. I didn't like him. Didn't like the cigars. (btw, isn't Fisk the name of the 'kingpin' from spiderman?)

*Like how they portrayed the radar. Niffty effects and (sadly) best part of the movie.

*The scene in the church was okay. Cheezy, but okay. Liked the idea of the chimes though.

*The rain-radar wasn't used enough! (though if they do a sequel, it'll get old real fast)

Overall, I was dissapointed. This movie had so much potential. So much potential. . . :(

*sigh* So, when does X-2 come out? May? *starts counting down the days....*

Mattashell

02-15-2003, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
The accent was terrible....

That is the actor's real accent.

If I may elaborate on my comments before about Elektra, though I do not take back what I've said about the performance, the failure (in my opinion) of the character is just as much the fault of the writers.

I don't remember the exact line, but she says something like "My father taught me to protect myself." In the comics Elektra has a long origin/history that they wouldn't have time to flesh out in the film, but they could have come up with more than this. "My father taught me to protect myself." does not explain being able to do nearly impossible acrobatics and flips, being a master of the sai, or various ninja-like skills. This is one of the major reasons why her character seems so out of place and forced. There is simply no explaination for her. Her presence just doesn't make any sense. In the comics, Elektra blames Daredevil for the death of her father, she tries to kill him, and later she finds out Daredevil is Matt Murdock, the only man she ever loved, Bullseye kills her and she dies in Daredevils arms. I respect that all this happened in the film as well, but they rushed through it so fast it really took away alot of the mellodrama it could have carried.

If I had to handle something like this, I might have a brief scene with Matt in college with Elektra and then leave her out of the rest of the film. Then I would bring her back as a villain in the sequel. In Frank Miller's Daredevil comics Elektra strattled the line between anti-heroine and villainess. She actually worked for the Kingpin too. I'm not saying that everything should be like the comics, but they really missed a chance to have a dark, mysterious character with a bigtime internal conflict, instead they took the one-dimensional eye-candy route with this character.

Like I said before, otherwise this would be great flick. I probably would have given it more stars if not for that terrible playground sparring scene.

Mattashell

02-15-2003, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by silverwings01
(btw, isn't Fisk the name of the 'kingpin' from spiderman?)

In Marvel Comics Wilson Fisk is also known as "The Kingpin" (sometimes "Kingpin of Crime"). Spider-Man and Daredevil are both enemies to him. He was created for Spider-Man comics, but eventually played a larger roll in Daredevil's career, he even knows Murdock's identity.

The Guard

02-15-2003, 01:49 PM

*Affleck was a terrible choice. Whose bright idea was it to pick a A+ celebrity anyway? #1, he can't act. #2, he has no charisma. At all. I would have perfered a no-name actor or a lesser know actor. (kinda like Toby Mcquire wasn't so well known before spiderman)

I thought, as did most people, that Affleck did a hell of a job. He showed a great love for the character. I didn't see Affleck, I saw Matt Murdock onscreen. Maguire was well known, too. Perhaps not to comic book fans, but people knew who he was when he was cast as Peter Parker.

terrible acting from the Kingpin. I didn't like him. Didn't like the cigars. (btw, isn't Fisk the name of the 'kingpin' from spiderman?)

Terrible acting from Michael Clarke Duncan? I don't THINK so. The man did some WONDERFUL emoting in the final scene, and his overall presence when he was in the movie cannot be denied. Yes, that's the Kingpin from Spider-Man. The Kingpin is both a Daredevil and a Spider-Man villain. He's Daredevil's arch-enemy, so the DD movies got him.

witness

02-15-2003, 02:24 PM

Alright, without going into too much rehashing of the points that have already been said, I will say that I liked it, but I hated it.

THE GOOD:

- Ben Affleck. Excellent job with the acting skills. He made the character really believable.

- Jennifer Garner. She did a good job with what she was given.

- Colin Farell. I really like this guy as an actor. I enjoyed his performance in the Recruit, and I enjoyed it here as well.

- Micheal Clarke Duncan. Superb. He also really made the character believable. I enjoyed the red rose thing, it was a nice nod to the comics.

- CGI. A lot cleaner than Spiderman in my opinion. Maybe because most of it was done under the cover of darkness. (WB should take a really good look at this film if they want to do another Batman movie)

- Daredevil's "vision". I really enjoyed how they used it, that it was an extension of his finely tuned hearing.

- The action sequences were great! Loved all of the fights, it made sure that this was a real action flick.

THE BAD

- Daredevil was willing to let someone die. While the "heaven/train" line was really cool, I still don't like seeing heros allowing people to die. They become antihero in my opinion.

- Elektra was nothing. In the comics, isn't she supposed to be this big time assassin? I would have rather seen more of the Elektra character. I was really disappointed.

- The final 30 - 45 minutes of it. This was just so unbelievable. No one gets back up and fights two more people after they have been stabbed. Superhero or not.

- Elektra and Bullseye didn't die. That cheapens the drama of the movie.

- I thought the park scene was cool, but like others have said, it was really unnecessary.

Frank White

02-15-2003, 02:55 PM

First, I wanted to address a couple points..

Originally posted by witness
- Elektra and Bullseye didn't die. That cheapens the drama of the movie.

Theres no absolute proof that Elektras alive.(I really really hope shes dead) And I'm glad that for once that villains DONT all die. Who knows, maybe Bullseye will come back in a sequel. I always faulted that Batman movies for that.

Originally posted by Mattashell

I don't remember the exact line, but she says something like "My father taught me to protect myself." In the comics Elektra has a long origin/history that they wouldn't have time to flesh out in the film, but they could have come up with more than this. "My father taught me to protect myself." does not explain being able to do nearly impossible acrobatics and flips, being a master of the sai, or various ninja-like skills.

Elektra said that her father made her train with different sensei's since she was 5 so her fighting skills make absolute since.

Originally posted by The Guard
OVERALL

A fun movie. A good movie, with lots of cool "peeing in pants" fanboy moments, and cool one-liners. But it's not the best superhero movie ever. It's not even in the top five. It was uber-cool because it was dark, and a different look at the superhero genre.

Name 5 better than it.

Anyway I guess I'm the only one that thought this movie was REALLY good. 4.5 outta 5 a couple observations.

* Lots of homages in this movie. Young Murdock stopping Stan Lee. And the list of people "The Devil" Murdock beat was Miller, Bendis, John Romita, and one more guy.

* I was bothered DD killed, but I guess it was resolved when he didn't kill Kingpin

* I liked the Kevin Smith cameo.

* Anybody notice the symbolism in the church when Bulleye's hands looked like stigmata?

* I agree that the plot should have built up the Kingpin's role a little more. I wasn't satisfied w/ the link that Kingpin killed Matt's dad. I should have been clearly stated

* I wish the Kingpin didn't know Matt's identity. Now we can't get Born Again for the sequel.

* I wonder what villains they could use for the sequel that aren't cheap. Purple Man, Owl, Stilt Man are pretty corny. Anyway the next movie girl for DD has to be Black Widow, maybe the villians could involve her past.

* The religious aspects were good, I'm glad they kept that in the movie.

* I would have put a little more emphasize on Matt the lawyer. Hopefully that sequel will have some more court scenes.

* I honestly enjoyed this movie more than Spider-Man and X-Men, Spidey was sooo slow at some times and X-Men was waaayy too much emphasize on Wolverine. I'm glad Daredevil was actually about Daredevil.

The Guard

02-15-2003, 03:01 PM

Name 5 better than it.

SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE
BATMAN
BLADE
X-MEN
SPIDER-MAN

All five of those films had better acting and held together better as films.

* Lots of homages in this movie. Young Murdock stopping Stan Lee. And the list of people "The Devil" Murdock beat was Miller, Bendis, John Romita, and one more guy.

Perhaps too many. I mean, it seemed like every character or reference that wasn't a main one was a comic book writer/artist.

* Anybody notice the symbolism in the church when Bulleye's hands looked like stigmata?

I've mentioned this elsewhere. There was a lot of symbolism in this movie, and the crucifix was a recurring imagine.

* The religious aspects were good, I'm glad they kept that in the movie.

Isondill

02-15-2003, 03:20 PM

I'm not going to post my review of it right now (even though it's been written) but the main problem with the movie was that it was too much like a played out comic, instead of an actual film and the director really needed to take that into consideration.

**/****

Frank White

02-15-2003, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by The Guard
SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE
BATMAN
BLADE
X-MEN
SPIDER-MAN

All five of those films had better acting and held together better as films.

Superman, Blade, and X-Men I'll definitely give to you. The other two were good but I enjoyed DD better. Spider-Man was too slow @ times and there wasn't enough action. The pacing was too slow. Batman should have been called The Joker.

The Guard

02-15-2003, 03:47 PM

[quote]Superman, Blade, and X-Men I'll definitely give to you. The other two were good but I enjoyed DD better.[quote]

Whether you enjoy them more or not, those films are better FILMS then DAREDEVIL was. They have better acting, dialogue, plots, etc.

Terminatah

02-15-2003, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by witness
- Elektra and Bullseye didn't die. That cheapens the drama of the movie. I can see how Elektra not dying would've cheapened the drama, but her heart stopped. I don't know, maybe you can get up and walk around after your heart stops, but not me, I don't think.

And Bullseye dying wouldn't have added to anything. He's just a villain. In fact, it would've cheapened Daredevil's vow to stop killing. So there you go.

Oh, and in reference to the above posts, X-Men sucked major ass.

-Terminatah

Marc

02-15-2003, 05:46 PM

Frank White

02-15-2003, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by CaptainInfinity
I had a great time. I went in with the lowest of expectations and I was totally blown away. Now this is coming from an avid DD fan. No film can ever hope to match the majesty of Superman: The Movie, but this is the closest I’ve experienced so far. Daredevil makes Spider-Man and X-Men look pale in comparison.

I'm glad somebody agrees w/ me. :D

LazyReaper

02-15-2003, 07:39 PM

I just came back from seeing this movie, and my main reaction? "Meh."

It was alright. To be honest, I wasn't expecting much from this movie from the minute I walked in. I'm not a huge fan of Daredevil, but I do like the character, and I do read the occasional issue every now and then.

The movie overall was too rushed. For a good reason too; I just found out that they had to continously cut down on the movie to give in a PG-13 rating. A definite shame; You could tell they cut out alot in there.

The story... actually there was no real story. Why was Matt going after Kingpin? Before he figured out Kingpin was the killer of his father, it all seemed pretty unbelievable and forced. The only thing we got was the "justice will be served" routine. Nothing major; no motive. The only part where the story actually picked up in the movie was when Elektra's Dad dies. It's then that we actually see the movie build up to a climax.

Now, aside from the bad, I have to admit that the origin was pretty good. Not as good as Spider-Man mind you; but it was still good, and served it's purpose. The only flaw with it (like the rest of the movie) was that it was too rushed. They really should have slowed this movie down. I liked the whole dark atmosphere that went out through out the entire movie, but alot of it was too rushed. The pacing was too fast (from the numerous cut downs), and IMO that's what really killed this movie.

The actors did a great job. Ben was a great Daredevil; same with the Micheal Duncan, he did an excellent job as the Kingpin. Bullseye totally ruled and stole the movie, lol. There wasn't a single scene with him that I didn't like. He brought a lot of life in the movie. And Garner as Electra wasn't bad either.

BTW, Am I the only one that thought that the sex scene was out of place in a PG-13 movie? This movie should be released in the Director's cut with a R rating. I have a feeling that with all the missing scenes put it, that's what the movie will likely come to.

And speaking of out-of-place scenes, I found the Playground fighting scene to be totally pointless. Bleh. It was overacted. Most of the action scenes in the movie, however, were well choreographed. That was the one thing I really liked. The CGI was good and fluid, but you could easily tell where they were all used. It distracted from a lot of the story within the scenes.

BTW, didn't anyone find it weird that Electra and Bullseye, all of sudden, were able to do all these inhuman jumps and flips? Daredevil I can believe, but even some of his jumps were a bit out there. It felt like I was watching "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" all over again. Yeesh. :rolleyes:

Overall, it was an alright movie. Wasn't the worst movie, but wasn't great enough for repeated viewings either. I won't be seeing it again, like how I did with Spider-man. Daredevil (though I love the comic) the movie, itself, just didn't cut it for me.

I give it 3 stars.

-Aximlli-

Joker85

02-15-2003, 08:49 PM

I saw this last night and really enjoyed it. Was it worth having to go to 3 different theatres because the first 2 were sold out, no. But it was entertaining which I guess is all I really expected out of it to begin with. Not as good as Spiderman, but entertaining. I really liked Ben Affleck in this one, a surprisingly good performance. Jennifer Garner was also pretty good, though some of her scenes just seemed a little..I dunno, off. But hey, she's hot, I can forgive mediocre acting! :D Michael Clark Duncan was awesome as Kingpin and I'd have to say the showdown between these 2 at the end was the highlight of the film for me. Colin Farrel was a good and funny Bullseye, although I thought it was stupid for him to give up so easily in the end. Also, why is he still alive? That fall should have killed him! Oh well, guess to have him back in a sequel. And I really liked the X2 trailer at the beginning, thats gonna be awesome! :D Anyways, I'll probably get this one when it comes out on DVD. ****

creeper

02-15-2003, 10:17 PM

Alright...i was gonna post my opinion....but my friend saw the movie again and confirmed what i had said b4. Elektra put her hand out to try to catch her sai. Why? Why? The one time Bullseye isn't specifically aiming for something.....she decides to be fancy. She could have just let it fly by and pick it up later.

"Gee let me try to grab the fast moving sharp object............"

derp derptie derp derp

*sigh*

Starflyer 58

02-15-2003, 10:27 PM

I could write an essay on this movie.

In fact, I think I will, once I'm unbanned from the computer. (Sneaky, bad me...)

It was that great, IMO.

Memphis Bleek

02-15-2003, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by The Guard
[quote]Superman, Blade, and X-Men I'll definitely give to you. The other two were good but I enjoyed DD better.[quote]

Whether you enjoy them more or not, those films are better FILMS then DAREDEVIL was. They have better acting, dialogue, plots, etc.

That's your opinion. I think Daredevil is one of the top five best comic book movie.

Taiso

02-15-2003, 11:15 PM

Hmm....I was disappointed as well...after hearing a lot of people talk about it was I was thinking it would be pretty good, but it doesn't compare to Spiderman.

My main beefs:

When are studios gonna make super hero movies with people who can really fight? It's all good getting A-list stars, but its pretty clear that sometimes these guys just can't get the actions scenes right. Yeah the scenes were shot pretty stylishly, but they can't disguise how Affleck has hardly any fight training. I thought Jennifer Garner looked the best of the lot.

Too short. Basically this movie follows a straight line from beginning to end, and it felt at times as if it was a little rushed.

A little unrealistic? I think Guard mentioned the part about having a training room in a mansion. Also if DD is so injured, how does he manage to swing over the place?

Also the way in which the fight scenes are shot make them a little confusing. I thought the scene in the bar was really hard to follow.

Good things:

I thought the scenes when they were showing his radar sight were great! Very imaginative.

Affleck was surprisingly good. Although the limited screen time and lack of dialogue means that it's pretty difficult to appraise any of the actors performances properly I feel.

I thought some parts very shot very stylishly.

I'd give it ***

BeastBoyWonder

02-15-2003, 11:43 PM

I thought this movie was awesome, but I'll post more commentary later on because I'm probably gonna go see it again.

Starflyer 58

02-15-2003, 11:58 PM

Yeah, I'm catching it again on Monday. I really think it's wonderfully themed, visually, plot-wise, and character-wise. Shame FOX forced Mark Steven Johnson to slice out 25 minutes (If there's anything I hate, it's film studio politics), but thankfully the movie still retained a lot of merit. IMO. I'm looking forward to the DVD, which has been confirmed to include the intact, uncut version. Huzzah!

M'ral

02-16-2003, 01:08 AM

Okay, before I get into my review, I feel I should point out that I don't read Daredevil comics, so when I walked into the theater tonight, I just barely knew his name, occupation, origin, costume design, and villain...and the origin part was fuzzy (although, I did know that he lost his sight under different circumstances than shown in the movie. Yay me. :D )

That said, Daredevil ROCKED!!! The opening scene was a complete shocker--it drew me right into the story, so thirty seconds into the movie, I was hooked. And it just got better.

I don't know what it was about this movie...the writing, the acting, the story itself, I don't know...but aside from Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, this was the most believable comic book related movie I have ever seen. Every scene, whether it was traumatic, romantic, exhilirating, vengeful, shocking, or just plain fun, went straight to my heart. All of the actors, expecially Ben Affleck, did a great job...this movie just pulled at my heartstrings like no other comic book movie ever has. But more than that, the actors and writers made it real for me...and making the unbelievable believable makes for a very enjoyable movie.

The best component of Daredevil was the drama, but the action was great too. Between the good choreography and the awesome music, every fight scene got my heart pumping, especially the Daredevil vs. Elektra fights. There were one or two moments (for instance, when Fisk throws Daredevil across his office) when the wire work was obvious, and I could have done without the running-up-the-walls technique (wacky moves like that reduce the believability of a fight, but I've learned to expect them from post-Matrix Hollywood), but other than that, the action sequences were awesome. There was also the final Daredevil vs. Bullseye fight...Daredevil seemed to be doing awfully well for a guy who was bleeding to death just minutes before...but that was forgivable. Overall, this movie had plenty of breath-taking, heart-pounding action--definately a plus for a superhero movie.

I don't know why some people keep complaining about Elektra and the "hack actress" that played her...maybe I would be too if I knew anything about her comic book counterpart. But I don't, so I loved Elektra. She was a strong, beautiful, woman, a skilled fighter who could hold her own in a fight (and soundly beat the hero of the film!), and an otherwise good person whose need for vengeance pushed her too far...sounds good to me! The romance with Matt Murdock made it even better...those two really had chemistry, and made the on-screen romance between their characters real and beautiful, and the ultimate fate of that relationship all the more painful. My god, after a heart-pounding hand-to-hand with the evil murderer Daredevil, she drives a sai through his chest, tears off his mask and finds...*dramatic pause*...her sweet, sensitive lover!! :eek: You can't get better than that!!! She didn't seem like a "hack actress" to me.

There's a lot more that I loved about this movie, but I've had more than my say already. I will say one more thing, though...Daredevil has awesome music!! I've never bought a soundtrack in my life, but you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be buying this one!

Maybe there were some things about this movie that weren't so good. Maybe I was so swept away by the good parts that I overlooked the bad. All I know is, I left the theater tonight with a smile on my face and the great feeling that only a good movie can give. That's all that really matters. :)

P.S: One more thing...was it just me, or did the ending seem kind of Mask of the Phantasm? Not that that's a bad thing...MOTP is my favorite movie of all time. I'm just wondering if anybody else made that connection besides me, or am I just crazy?

DarkAngel

02-16-2003, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Starflyer 58
Yeah, I'm catching it again on Monday. I really think it's wonderfully themed, visually, plot-wise, and character-wise. Shame FOX forced Mark Steven Johnson to slice out 25 minutes (If there's anything I hate, it's film studio politics), but thankfully the movie still retained a lot of merit. IMO. I'm looking forward to the DVD, which has been confirmed to include the intact, uncut version. Huzzah!
I'm seeing it for the first time tomorrow. Well, later today would be more accurate since it's 1:00 am. Can't wait.

Do you know how much was cut due to violence? MSJ had said that he had to trim some stuff to bring it down from an R rating. I'm assuming we won't see any of that added back in. But besides that, I'm not sure what justification there would be to make cuts. Wouldn't a two hour movie be fine?

Chris Sanders MSX

02-16-2003, 02:13 AM

I saw it. I thought it would suck. I was wrong but it wasn't that great either.

The action was great and so was the love story.

All the characters came out better than expected especially King Pin. Bullseye too. Ben Affleck was great as Matt and DD. I liked big parts of the movie but it just lacked something, I can't put my finger on what it was though.

Oh and uh.. how exactly and why did the pool table light on fire in the middle of that bar fight ? That's about the only thing I didn't get.

creeper

02-16-2003, 08:02 AM

Oh and uh.. how exactly and why did the pool table light on fire in the middle of that bar fight ? That's about the only thing I didn't get.

i feel your pain. I'm still trying to figure out why elektra tried to catch the sai. But that's less logistics and more common sense :rolleyes:

WHY?!!!! WHY EVEN TRY TO CATCH A SHARP OBJECT!!!!!

I'd pretend to be dead too if did something that stupid.

Taiso

02-16-2003, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX

Oh and uh.. how exactly and why did the pool table light on fire in the middle of that bar fight ? That's about the only thing I didn't get.

I think there's a bit when he hits some lights or something? Can't rmemeber very clearly.

mbaker

02-16-2003, 10:15 AM

Just saw Daredevil yesterday, and I enjoyed it. By the way, aside from Stan Lee, (Guess we'll have to see if we can spot him in X2, or Hulk) did anyone esle see Kevin Smith's cameo?

Mattashell

02-16-2003, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Frank White
Elektra said that her father made her train with different sensei's since she was 5 so her fighting skills make absolute since.

Negative, I disagree. Elektra's techniques are assassin's methods, not defensive. So he made her train with different senseis since she was five. Why is that logical? Does he need his own personal assassin? A girl can take care of herself in New York without being a trained killer.

Chris Sanders MSX

02-16-2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by creeper
i feel your pain. I'm still trying to figure out why elektra tried to catch the sai. But that's less logistics and more common sense :rolleyes:

WHY?!!!! WHY EVEN TRY TO CATCH A SHARP OBJECT!!!!!

I'd pretend to be dead too if did something that stupid.

I chalked that up to her being stupid and inexperienced. But still, why would you put your hand out at all ?

Yuss

02-16-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Chris Sanders MSX
Oh and uh.. how exactly and why did the pool table light on fire in the middle of that bar fight ? That's about the only thing I didn't get. A number of lights were smashed during the fight, so one of them probably was near enough to ignite the table.

~B+:

Cogliostro

02-16-2003, 11:19 AM

Geez people complaining about little things, Elektra tried to catch it cause she needed it for a weapon, if she just dodged it she would have had one less weapon and probably thought she could catch it since Bullseye did. Also the pool table's probably caught on fire cause there is lots of alcohol and sparks.

I seen the movie and thought it was great, just what I was expecting. Just like Spidey some CGI scenes weren't that great but didn't expect them to be. I thought it was great, not the best in the world but not the worse and here's hoping it gets a good response and triggers a sequel that can only be better...

Russkafin

02-16-2003, 11:41 AM

I definitely enjoyed this movie, I was very pleased with it. I loved the way they did DD's radar sense! I never really understood how the radar sense worked, so I liked how they established that he has to be able to hear it in some way... like hearing the raindrops hitting the surface, or the sonic waves bouncing around in the subway. That was so wild in the flashback, where he's in the hospital as a kid and is overwhelmed by all the senses.... really intense and very well done!

I also loved how he was jumping around the rooftops and flipping around and everything, and I found myself thinking, "They GOTTA do another Batman movie soon, because we need to see Batman swinging around the rooftops!" We've never seen that in any of the other live action movies.

That said, I think my few complaints are pretty much the same as everyone else's... the fight scene in the park (Wouldn't somebody walk by and think, "Hey, how can that blind guy do all that? I wonder if he might be Daredevil?"), and the fact that the movie was way too short! I wanted to see more!

This sounds horrible but I was so glad that they killed Elektra. As soon as I heard she and Bullseye would be in it, and it would be based on Frank Miller's work, I wondered if they would stay true to the story and have Bullseye give her the sai-through-the-stomach routine. I kinda figured they would cop out though, especially with rumors of an Elektra spin-off movie in the works (How are they gonna pull that off now? Prequel, I suppose?), but I was glad they stayed true to the tragedy of the source material.

Also, since I've downloaded the trailer and watched it an infinite number of times... I noticed a few things that were cut from the movie that were in the trailer...

-Daredevil has a line in the trailer, "Time to give the devil his due!" that is not in the movie.

-In the movie, the scene in the park ends after Elektra tells Matt her name. In the trailer, she says, "I have to go, my bodyguard is here." Matt is surprised and goes, "Your bodyguard??"

-The scene continues even past this in the trailer... Matt asks Elektra, "How am I going to find you?" She replies, "I'll find you." I wish they would have left that in... it would have added more meaning and poignancy to the ending, when Elektra tells Matt "I'll find you" again before she goes to her death fighting Bullseye.

Cogliostro

02-16-2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Russkafin
Also, since I've downloaded the trailer and watched it an infinite number of times... I noticed a few things that were cut from the movie that were in the trailer...

-Daredevil has a line in the trailer, "Time to give the devil his due!" that is not in the movie.

-In the movie, the scene in the park ends after Elektra tells Matt her name. In the trailer, she says, "I have to go, my bodyguard is here." Matt is surprised and goes, "Your bodyguard??"

-The scene continues even past this in the trailer... Matt asks Elektra, "How am I going to find you?" She replies, "I'll find you." I wish they would have left that in... it would have added more meaning and poignancy to the ending, when Elektra tells Matt "I'll find you" again before she goes to her death fighting Bullseye.

Your right they did cut somethings out it's rumored that FOX cut out about 25 minutes of what the movie could have been, there are also rumors that there could be a directors cut DVD that shows all of the movie, here's hoping thats true...

Drachentöter

02-16-2003, 01:07 PM

For any who are intersted, the song during Elektra's training scene is Bring Me to Life by Evanescence.

Another song I enjoyed were Until You're Reformed by Chevelle (I'm pretty sure, the one Matt plays while he's taking the pain pills).

I forget which scene this song was from, but Won't Back Down by Fuel was an excellent choice.

Is the soundtrack already available in stores? I'd love to pick the entire thing up.

witness

02-16-2003, 04:06 PM

Won't Back Down by Fuel was played druing the end credits.

Cogliostro

02-16-2003, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
For any who are intersted, the song during Elektra's training scene is Bring Me to Life by Evanescence.

Another song I enjoyed were Until You're Reformed by Chevelle (I'm pretty sure, the one Matt plays while he's taking the pain pills).

I forget which scene this song was from, but Won't Back Down by Fuel was an excellent choice.

Is the soundtrack already available in stores? I'd love to pick the entire thing up.

I've been listening to Bring Me to Life by Evanescence for the last few months (along with a few of their other songs) telling everyone to listen to it and that its a great song but they were like "Yeah ok sure" and now that they hear it on the radio and everything they are loving it. I guess all I can do is roll my eyes :rolleyes:

Damien

02-16-2003, 06:53 PM

So I finally caught up and saw Daredevil today.
Like some, I've never in my life read a Daredevil comic. I do know his origin though, and I must say I would've liked to see Stick.
Besides that, and the fact that some of the action looked way too fake and Bullseye acted a little silly, I'd say the movie was great. The scene with him on top of the church looked good, as did many of his building stances.
The music could've been better, but it wasn't bad.
To top it all off, they, as we know, showed the trailers to both The Hulk and X2.
And M'ral, that's exactly what I was thinking when I saw the end, too.
I'll give the movie ***1/2. Now, let's all sit back and wait for DC to catch up.

DarkAngel

02-16-2003, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Cogliostro
Geez people complaining about little things, Elektra tried to catch it cause she needed it for a weapon, if she just dodged it she would have had one less weapon and probably thought she could catch it since Bullseye did.
Yeah, I don't understand the complaints about this, either. I just saw the movie, and I would say it's pretty obvious why she tried to catch it. Bullseye made a major statement about his skill when he caught that. When he threw it back, Elektra saw an opportunity to make a similar statement, to say that she wasn't intimidated and could hold her own against him. Taking the weapon through her hand proved how wrong she was and hinted at what awaited her in the battle against Bullseye.

I loved the movie. I'd give it 3.5/4. There were so many little things that worked so well. As many have already said, Affleck was, surprisingly, excellent as Murdock/Daredevil. There was a definite menace that exuded from him everytime Daredevil was onscreen. I saw nothing from Garner that would lead me to call her a "hack" actress. She did well. Duncan was good as Kingpin, and Colin Farrell was unbelievable. I've been hearing about his performance, but didn't realize what he'd bring to the movie.

The music was used to good effect, and greatly heigtened several scenes. The movie looked good as well. Storywise, the movie might have been light, but I didn't feel it that much. It worked for me. One aspect I particularly liked was the weight Matt felt over his actions. Seeing him at confession and mulling over whether he was the bad guy was great, especially given the end result when he refused to kill Fisk.

The only complaint I have was regarding the fight scenes. They happened so quickly, and in such darkness, that I think it was difficult to fully appreciate what was shown. If I hadn't seen the trailers, I wouldn't have been aware of half of what Daredevil pulled off in that bar fight. For whatever reason, the action seemed darker and less apparant than in the trailer.

But overall, I'd say it was great. I'm not sure where I'd rank it among the other superhero movies, though. I think I need to let it sink in a little.

Calico

02-16-2003, 08:55 PM

I thought the movie was awesome! Having no idea about DD's comic origins is probably a good thing, so I'm perfectly fine with his background. The relationship with his father was very dramatic and I think was a good explanation for his becoming a superhero, though it was a bit 'Batmanish' yet I'm not complaining.

I loved Matt's partner. Their bantering in the coffee shop was some of the best parts of the movie.

I agree to an extent that Matt and Electra's battle in the playground was a bit overdone, especially when they were on the titter-totter - he has to weigh a good 70 lbs more than her :rolleyes: Though I didn't mind the idea behind it so much. It was showing they were kindred spirits in a way. I do have to agree that the 'I studied since I was 5' explanation just doesn't cut it for Electra. I think we need a little more reason why.

It was too quickly paced. I do hope that when they release the DVD those cut scenes will be back and a lot of questions/holes will be answered.

DarkAngel

02-16-2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Calico
I do have to agree that the 'I studied since I was 5' explanation just doesn't cut it for Electra. I think we need a little more reason why.
Remember that Elektra's father worked for Kingpin. Given how dangerous Fisk is and given the nature of working for a crime figure, I think he wanted to make sure Elektra had the means to defend herself. That was good forethought, because Mr. Natchios' association with Fisk was the entire reason Elektra was in such danger at the end.

creeper

02-17-2003, 12:03 AM

Yeah, I don't understand the complaints about this, either. I just saw the movie, and I would say it's pretty obvious why she tried to catch it. Bullseye made a major statement about his skill when he caught that. When he threw it back, Elektra saw an opportunity to make a similar statement, to say that she wasn't intimidated and could hold her own against him. Taking the weapon through her hand proved how wrong she was and hinted at what awaited her in the battle against Bullseye.

Sharp object coming at high speed, you tend to wanna avoid that. Considering that she put herself in the way of it, seeing as it would have just flown by her if she hadn't put out her hand.

As for her wanting to catch it like bullseye. He's psycho.....you'd expect a pyscho person to try to catch a sharp object. Especially when he makes a living throwing them.

So Elektra's excuse would be.............can we say stupidity.

Robin2099

02-17-2003, 02:11 AM

I saw Daredevil Saturday night, and overall I thought that it was a fairly good movie. Everyone in the movie did a decent job acting, and I was able to buy Ben Affleck as a superhero. I thought that Bullseye came across very well as someone who was lethal, psychotic and dangerous. And Daredevils scenes holding on to the cross and diving down looked good. And I liked how they used Matt as someone who was obsessed with Vengance before realizing it wasn't the answer. I wish they would of done that in the Batman movies.
The negatives though were the teeter totter scene which seemed very goofy. The fact that we really got no character development on any of the bad guys. The fight scenes were way to dark, and had too many weird cuts. I couldn't see what was going on at all lots of times.
Overall though Daredevil was always one of my favorite characters and I think he was done justce. *** out of four. And why did Elektra catch the Sai that Bullseye threw? Well, Elektra had no idea about Bullseye's capabilities, and how dangerous he was. She thought that if he could catch it, so could she. The scene worked too because after that happend you knew she was in trouble and it got you worried for her.

Steven C

02-17-2003, 02:57 AM

I loved it, I liked it better than Spiderman, but I like those dark hero type movies. I thought it was up there w/ my second favorite superhero move Batman 1. Superman 1 is my favorite superhero movie. No superhero movie can beat that!

Russkafin

02-17-2003, 10:11 AM

A few more things that are in the trailer that were cut from the movie (see my post on page 3 for the others)...

In the original teaser trailer for the movie, there was a shot of a black man in prison. I think it might have been Coolio, if it wasn't then it sure looks a lot like him. (Edit: I looked on IMDB.com, and they list Coolio in the credits as playing "Daunte Jackson." Evidently he was in the movie but his scene was cut... poor guy.)

In the final trailer, in the scene where Matt and Elektra are on the roof, Matt says "I've got work to do." This line is cut from the movie.

Not really a cut, but interesting to note... In the final trailer, the dead guard is nowhere to be seen in the background when Bullseye says his lines, "Necessary? No. It was fun," and "The Devil is mine." It does seem to be the same takes that are used in the movie, so the guard was apparently digitally edited out of the shot. The original trailer also includes Bullseye's "The Devil is mine" line, but the dead guard is still visible in the background.

You can see both trailers and the teaser at http://www.movie-list.com/d/daredevil.shtml if you are so inclined!

James Harvey

02-17-2003, 10:41 AM

My main complaint about the movie is the overly annoying use of the soundtrack songs in alot of key scenes, when score music would've worked so much better. There are shots here and there where it would've been find, but they where really pimping out the soundtrack on this movie. In Spider-Man, you here only one song for a scant few seconds in the background, and then nothing more until a minute or so into the trailer. But here, it seemed like every five minutes. And then we get a nice full helping of that incredibly lame song by Evanescence (or however you spell that) during what could've been a powerful scene with score music.

Also, the move was two short with alot of obvious edits and plot holes. You can easily tell, much like fellow 20th Century Fox movie, X-Men, that alot was dropped on the cutting room floor. Granted, alot was cut to get that MPAA rating, but at least one subplot was dropped. Spider-Man proved you don't need to have the film move at a breakneck speed to be good. I think if Daredevil had a good extra 15 - 30 minutes, it'd be much better than it is right now. It's a good movie, mind you, but could've been much better. You know there's more there, and it'd be nice to see it. This is the same thing that happened to X-Men.

I'm sure more info on the cut scenes will be up soon.

DarkAngel

02-17-2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by creeper
As for her wanting to catch it like bullseye. He's psycho.....you'd expect a pyscho person to try to catch a sharp object.
It has nothing to do with being pyscho, and everything to do with his skill level.

Stupidity for Elektra to catch that? In hindsight, I'm sure she'd agree. But she had a moment to react and took a chance. She'd never faced Bullseye before. She had no idea just how good he was. She saw him do it, and tried to do the same. Mistake? Sure. But that's going to happen.

DarkAngel

02-17-2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
And then we get a nice full helping of that incredibly lame song by Evanscence (or however you spell that) during what could've been a powerful scene with score music.
Which scene was that? I don't remember which song was by Evanscence.

Drachentöter

02-17-2003, 11:56 AM

Which scene was that? I don't remember which song was by Evanscence.

When Elektra is training with her sais against the sandbags (remiscent of Tomb Raider.)

And I like that song. :p

I have to disagree with Jim Harvey on the music. Certain heroes fit scores, certain heroes fit contemporary music. I feel Daredevil benefited from its rock soundtrack, since it is a dark movie about a young lawyer. Superman and Batman have qualities of fantasy and science fiction that are better accompanied by an orchestral score. Spiderman, both pop-culture icon and classic comic mythos, had a good mix of soundtrack and score. (I'm not all that impressed by what I've heard of Elfman's Spiderman score on its own.)

Also, contemporary beats help to make a lesser-known icon more appealing to the mainstream crowd. Whether that's good or bad is up for debate.

Silent Bob

02-17-2003, 12:32 PM

I agree with Jim. The music in the movie dates it severly. I thought it was overly annoying and didn't fit the film whatsoever. That horrible movie blasting over the scene made it feel more like the terrible 'xXx' than the enjoyable 'Spider-Man.' I would've been much better if they just pushed all that to the closing credits like Spider-Man. Or took a hint from 'X-Men' and not bother with dated music.

James Harvey

02-17-2003, 12:50 PM

For those interested, the score to Daredevil, by Graeme Revell, will be available to own on March 4th, 2003.

DarkAngel

02-17-2003, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
And I like that song. :p

I have to disagree with Jim Harvey on the music. Certain heroes fit scores, certain heroes fit contemporary music. I feel Daredevil benefited from its rock soundtrack, since it is a dark movie about a young lawyer.
I agree. I thought the song worked very well with that scene, as did other songs that appeared elsewhere. I like the idea of actually hearing songs from the soundtrack in the movie. Otherwise, a soundtrack is just a meaningless collection of songs that has nothing to do with the film. And like you said, for this kind of movie, it fit perfectly.

JohnStewart-GL

02-17-2003, 04:50 PM

I saw it on Friday. And i really did like it. I thought it was better than Batman '89. I loved the intro were DD is on the crucifix. It was a sweet way to open the movie. I thought Affleck delivered a very good performance as the Man without fear. I enjoyed the way he began to question and doubt the way he fights crime. The love story between Matt and Elektra was a bit rushed and i wish they had left the subplot with Coolio in. The fight scenes were great and i loved the more light-hearted scenes with Foggy and the playground fight. I give it a solid 4 starz.Definately on par with the latest comic book films.

JohnCrichton

02-17-2003, 04:57 PM

Two Questions:

Do I need to see this movie and do I need to see it in a theatre?

M'ral

02-17-2003, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by DarkAngel
I agree. I thought the song worked very well with that scene, as did other songs that appeared elsewhere. I like the idea of actually hearing songs from the soundtrack in the movie. Otherwise, a soundtrack is just a meaningless collection of songs that has nothing to do with the film. And like you said, for this kind of movie, it fit perfectly.

I agree as well. Orchestral score works well for Batman and Superman...that's just the way they are. Maybe their age has something to do with it...they were created over 60 years ago. I'm not saying that orchestral score only works for "old" heroes...heck, all the best action films have orchestral scores. But you have to admit that the vibe they give off is not the same as that of a lot of some younger heroes, including Daredevil (and IMHO, several other Marvel heroes). They have a different atmosphere, a different personality. Batman and Superman, though they continue to evolve and update to keep up with the times, were still created over half a century ago, and still maintain a certain old-fashionedness about them...that's part of who they are, and if they ever lose it, they will cease to be the heroes we love. Heroes like Daredevil were born into a different world...their personalities and attitudes reflect that fact, and so must their music. Batman can swing into action on a rousing blast of brass. Superman can stand alone before the forces of evil with trumpets blaring in triumph. That kind of music works for those characters. Try to imagine Daredevil doing that. Then compare it to a thrilling electric guitar track with a strong bass beat and a few good lyrics explaining what he's thinking and feeling in that moment. Which sounds better?

Drachentöter

02-17-2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by JohnCrichton
Two Questions:

Do I need to see this movie and do I need to see it in a theatre?

Depends on your definition of "need."

Do you need to see it because it is the best comic book movie ever and will have a major impact on pop culture?

Probably not.

Do you need to see it so you won't feel left out and not know what your friends are talking about when they discuss it?

I don't know your friends.

Do you need to see it because there's nothing better in theatres?

Yeah. It certainly won't hurt you.

Um, there's nothing that really enhances the experience by watching it in a movie theatre. But if you ever consider getting it for home viewing, I'd pick the DVD if only because they'll probably have some cool special features (director's cut, soundtrack bits).

Isondill

02-17-2003, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by VortexInfinite

Yeah. It certainly won't hurt you.

Right... :rolleyes:

There are plently other movies in the theater right now to see, which are MUCH better than Daredevil.

If you dont and cant get your theater to release limited/independent works, then...It probablly is the best right now, even though it's a bad film.

While it's the best form of a comic IMO, the music for one was awful, and so was the directing/script/acting, and the terrible hardly able to understand fight scenes, but it's main flaw was that it played out too much like a comicbook. Literally.

Not that comics are bad, I love them, but this film was almost like Directly reading. It needed to have the appropriate changes to make cinema. You dont put print on screen, you put an adaptation of it within the movie world. Maybe some of you saw this too, and liked it, but it sure as hell bothered me...

JohnCrichton

02-17-2003, 05:58 PM

Think that about answers it.

I'm going to go see Shanghai Knights instead. :)

Yuss

02-17-2003, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by JohnCrichton
Two Questions:

Do I need to see this movie and do I need to see it in a theatre? 1) No, but there's no reason not to.
2) Actually, since the DVD is supposed to have the full, uncut version, maybe you'd be better off waiting for it-- like the reviews said, the film was butchered for time. The only thing worth seeing in the theater is when he first wakes up with his radar sense: It's nice and loud. Other than that...

~B+:

Russkafin

02-17-2003, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by Anime Toonami

Not that comics are bad, I love them, but this film was almost like Directly reading. It needed to have the appropriate changes to make cinema. You dont put print on screen, you put an adaptation of it within the movie world. Maybe some of you saw this too, and liked it, but it sure as hell bothered me...

I'm not really sure what you mean, man... I loved that it was so much like the comics, I get frustrated when they make too many changes to the story to bring it to the screen. I don't think that's what you were getting at though, but I'm not sure I understand what you were getting at. Could you elaborate a little?

And I would definitely reccomend seeing it in the theater if you have the opportunity to do so, I personally liked it very much!

Zoddman

02-17-2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by JohnCrichton
Think that about answers it.

I'm going to go see Shanghai Knights instead. :) Good choice John, good choice. I LOVED Shanghai Knights. Daredevil was mediocre, at best.

The problem with Daredevil wasn't the concept, it wasn't the fight scenes, and it wasn't the acting, it was the fact that the director didn't GET what makes Daredevil work as a concept.

Sam Raimi GOT Spider-Man, he got what made the character important, what makes him interesting, etc. which I don't think Mark Steven Johnson got about DD's world, particularly Frank Miller's books.

DarkAngel

02-18-2003, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Zoddman
Good choice John, good choice. I LOVED Shanghai Knights. Daredevil was mediocre, at best.
Or maybe not. I have the opposite opinion: Daredevil was great. And there are others here who feel the same way. I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the movie. If you're a Daredevil fan and a comic book fan, I would definitely recommend it.

Marc

02-18-2003, 12:01 AM

Really? As a lifelong DD & Spidey fan I honestly feel Johnson's DD oozed elements of Miller's books. I'm actually excited about future installments of the DD franchise. I can't say the same about Spider-Man or X-Men. I'd rather see Raimi make a new Darkman sequel that have him work on Spider-Man again. That's just my opinion however.

- Cap

DarkAngel

02-18-2003, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by CaptainInfinity
Really? As a lifelong DD & Spidey fan I honestly feel Johnson's DD oozed elements of Miller's books. I'm actually excited about future installments of the DD franchise.
Same here. Zoddman, could you elaborate on why you think Mark Steven Johnson "didn't GET what makes Daredevil work as a concept," because I don't really see it.

Zoddman

02-18-2003, 12:44 AM

Certainly, DarkAngel.

Maybe I put it wrong. I think Johnson really had more 'conflicting' ideas about Daredevil. In many interviews, MSJ(Johnson from this point on,) said that he wanted to get across the realism of Matt Murdock's character, that here was a guy whose only real superpower was a handicap. Then he has many scenes of a cg Matt doing things no human could do. If he wanted to stress the realism, why Spider-Man style jumps and action?

The film felt more like two acts rather than Three. We get the origin and the foundation of the character, then we get the conflict. The resolution to the conflict comes near minutes after the arc begins. There was no major struggle for Daredevil, no real threat. Just Elektra dies, Bullseye & the Kingpin get their butts kicked. The End. No arc for the character.

The film felt VERY incomplete. Maybe if MSJ got that 25 min. put back in, there would be a real story going on. As it is, no real confrontation. DD needed more prior battles with Elektra, Bullseye and Kingpin to make the ending feel worthwhile. It just felt rushed. i'm sorry if I wasn't very happy with this film.

I love Daredevil. I have the Frank Miller books, a few masterworks books, and DD:the Man W/O Fear. And with all the epic tragedy that happened in the Miller years, MSJ REALLY should've done two films to get this story done.

First film: Daredevil origin (Man W/O Fear as basis for the script.)

Second film: Elektra Saga

Third Film: Born Again

'Nuff Said from me True Believers!

Zoddman

02-18-2003, 12:46 AM

JustJack

02-18-2003, 02:16 AM

Concidering how big of a fan the director is of Daredevil...I dont understand everyone's bitter mindnumbing chatter about how he didn't "get" Daredevil. I think for a hero's origin and evolution, he nailed it pretty damn well. Sure, I didn't like Matt hitting on Elektra as much an anyone else...I mean, he sure did go waaay into "creepy mode" when he decided to hit on the "nice smelling girl." Otherwise...I think the evolution of him from being a badass jury of justice, to a "good guy" was perfectly executed. It's not about him BEING the Daredevil of the comics...it was about him BECOMING the Daredevil of the comics. So...to you smelly fanboys....

screw you.

And I'm getting tired of this "No motivation" crap. Does the bad guy REALLY need to be up to some big grand scheme? Quite frankly, I always get extremely sick and tired of that. In X-Men, it was necessary. The mutant existance was a grand scheme which needed a huge conclusion. Spider-Man was all about his choices, and the development into a greater something...and so at the end, GG had to develope into the ultimate evil, and make the ultimate threat, and Spidey had to become the ultimate hero. But Daredevil has always been a more personal story. The baddies DD usually goes after are the one's he takes to court in the first place...or the ones who hurt him personally. Kingpin didn't need some grand scheme. All it took was assasinating those who just happened to be close to Matt Murdock. And quite frankly, I was extremely happy that they didn't try to make a grand scheme of things from this. Like he said, his territory is Hells Kitchen. It's not the world...it's just a bad neighborhood. It's just Josies Bar, and it's just Wilson Fisk.

I guess some of you just seemed too damn confused as to why they'd chose a story of character-evolution, and not a big story that would risk blowing up the entire city of New York. *shrug* Characterization has been lacking in movies for a long time...and granted, Bullseye and Kingpin didn't get their fare share...and Elektra needed a little more time, but still. At least we got to see Daredevil develope into a hero...something just about every other hero movie really lacks. It's about personal conflict, people. And it just worked too well.

So, me...I loved it. I'd love more and more Bullseye. He stole the show, without a doubt. If there's one scene from any movie that I simply know will never get old for me, will be when he's on the airplane with the peanuts. Classic.

Everyone seems to either love the action, or hate it. My bud Tim and I felt it seemed a tad bit too choppy. It switched back and forth from angle to angle too quickly, you didn't quite know what happened. All I could really do was reassure myself "Yeah...I bet DD's winning...I think..." Even so, I felt the sound was played perfectly. From tiny little details clipping off screen, to the faded "under water" sounds. It worked all too well.

I DID like someone's comment on "this is MTVs Daredevil." Quite frankly, I love the soundtrack. But in the end, I'd REALLY prefer some good ol' orchestraicle tunes over some pop. Even though "I'm a bad dog" worked for the first appearance of Kingpin, and "My Immortal" by Evanescence was perfect for the funeral. And any bar fight needs a good thrasher metal tune. But the rest of the movie coulda used a good orchestra over Rob Zombie...no offense. Rob is a good good man(House of a 1000 Corpse's!!!!!!! WOOO!!!! Can't wait!!).

Overall, I was happy. The computer graffics looked on the same par as Spidey, but worked a heck of a lot better, being in the dark. Even so, I'm one of the few who loved spidey's cg. Everyone pulled their own weight for this movie. Unlike everyone else, I like Ben Affleck, and so I was extremely pleased by his dead-on/perfect performance as Matt Murdock. A part of me say's he still should have dyed his hair blonde...but...I guess the red worked better. Jennifer Garner is spectacular. Although I think she was given too much credit for doing her own stunts since she was wiped out about 7 minutes after putting her nice suit on. Oops...spoiler! Cover your childrens eye's! Colin Farrel has to be...HAS TO BE one of my favorite actors now adays. He can't do a bad job. He's hillarious as an insane psychopath...and he can bring new life to even the corniest of lines. I just hope he gets a suit in the sequal... :p And Michael Clark Duncan. "Remember, all those years ago, when we use to joke around about a black Kingpin? That'll be the day..." I said that to my friend Tim, jokingly as we went into this movie. Though he was given little screen time, and the fact that his obsession with having cigar's and drinks in his hand kinda got on my nerves...Mr. Duncan pulled off a superb performance, as always. Only that man can actually make me feel afraid, just watching him on screen. Even when he was on the ground, and Matt just told him "those police sirens are coming for you...the word is out on the Kingpin." and as Fisk sat there, legs broken...he was laughing and crying...and as he just said "I'm going to get you..." that seriously sent shivers down my spine. Because you know a man of that size, who literally will kill you without a second thought...that's just friggin freaky. I can just see it in the sequal, if Fisk ever gets in a room alone with Matt Murdock.....wooo...shivers.

And Foggy Nelson...perfect. Mmm...Mustard!

And finally...X-Men 2. I sure hope that thing's not an hour and a half like the last one...because this looks like one friggin' huge movie. My Alla, it looks huge. And I'm feeling good for Rogue...she kissed someone. Woo!

"Put down the knives, NOW!"

".....I can't...."

DarkAngel

02-18-2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Zoddman
In many interviews, MSJ(Johnson from this point on,) said that he wanted to get across the realism of Matt Murdock's character, that here was a guy whose only real superpower was a handicap. Then he has many scenes of a cg Matt doing things no human could do. If he wanted to stress the realism, why Spider-Man style jumps and action?

But when he says it's a handicap, he's not saying Murdock can't pull off those moves. He's talking about how overwhelming it is for Matt to live his life with constant bombardment from his enhanced senses. When we see Matt return home after one of his nights out, it's so clear from the expression on his face, and his body language, that he's just battered. On all fronts, except visually, he gets assaulted. And we see and feel that. That's the realism.

The film felt more like two acts rather than Three. We get the origin and the foundation of the character, then we get the conflict. The resolution to the conflict comes near minutes after the arc begins. There was no major struggle for Daredevil, no real threat. Just Elektra dies, Bullseye & the Kingpin get their butts kicked. The End. No arc for the character.

The film felt VERY incomplete.
Ok, now I understand where you're coming from. When you said MSJ didn't "get" Daredevil, I thought you were talking about the character, but you're talking about the movie length/structure. I don't feel the same way about it. It was shorter than I would have expected, but I never felt that in the theater. There was stuff cut, but mostly, it didn't negatively impact my appreciation for what I was seeing. And I'm pretty confident that we will see an extended version on DVD, so I'm fine with it.

Joe Wagner

02-18-2003, 03:17 PM

I loved the movie - I found it massively entertaining and have already seen it twice now :D

The only thing that bothered me was the way that DD allowed Quesada to get hit by the train - granted it wasn't murder as some thought because he did act in self-defense but it just seemed out of character.

Looking forward to the DVD for this so that I can see it again.

-Joe!

Stu

02-18-2003, 03:20 PM

I thought it was brilliant. There was nothing here I severly disliked. I'm not going to kiss its ass or nitpick it to death as some people have (I aren't saying who).

I paticually liked the whole life flashes before you part of it as it didn't need to explain the whole "Boy without fear" to Daredevil (like Superman had to, with him "learning" for 12 years.)

Murdock in court was great as well.

"I hope Justice prevails here today, for your sake".

As previously mentioned the whole "What do you want?/Justice" scene was handeld well, especially when MM first changed to DD. I couldn't help but smile. No one here seemed to like the Elektra/MM in the park, I actually thought it was pretty funny, but I thought them first meeting in the coffee bar was a bit long, but was worth it just for the Foggy, mustard bit and "What are you?... Blind".

I orginally didn't like the idea of Bullseye being the comic relief but Colin Farrell portrayed the character in a first class way. Affleck was the star performer for me though. There was no one who bored me to death (unlike Kristin Dunst in Spider-man) and I was very impressed by MCD as the Kingpin. Kingpin has always been a favourite of mine (since his classic character in Spider-man TAS) and I'm glad to see he wasn't butchered as my other favourites before him have (Two-Face, Lex Luthor).

I still think Elektra is alive BTW.

The whole music over score wasn't really too nessacary but I thought it was great when they played "The Man without Fear" especially in the throw down with Bullseye. Oh and for those that critised Ben Afflecks running he was wearing leather pants for gods sake.

Looking forward to the sequel, glad to here the cast is staying and I can't wait for the DVD.

*****
(Better than Batman :) )

Spastic Minnow

02-18-2003, 03:43 PM

I basically liked it but I did have a problem with the CGI fighting. I didn't like the jumping twenty feet stuff, the crappy throw Kingpin gave Daredevil in the final scene, but most of all, the backflipping he does to get away from bullseye's glass shards. Explain to me why bullseye couldn't hit a guy twirling around in such a predictable manner? And I could have sworn that I saw one of the CGI glass shards disapearing in his crotch as he flipped away.

It reminds me of Sigorney Weavers charcter talking to Tim Allen's character in Galaxy Quest "Does the flipping really help?"

DarkAngel

02-18-2003, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Spastic Minnow
I basically liked it but I did have a problem with the CGI fighting.
The only CGI bit that bothered me was Kingpin throwing Daredevil. Nothing else really stood out as unnatural.

Gpoliceman

02-18-2003, 09:15 PM

SPOILERS ALERT:

I'll be short and sweet in my review:

My two friends both gave the movie a 4 out of 10 points. I gave it 7 out of 10, so I liked it a lot more.

I barely knew anything about Daredevil walking in. Walking out, I thought the character of Daredevil was immensily interesting, and I loved the journey he went though (finding the ability to forgive)

If only the movie concentrated more on Daredevil. The Heaven Train scene, his church confessions, the "I'm not the bad guy" scene, all wonderful stuff.

So here's why the movie was flawed:

Once other characters arrived, the movie fell apart. The Supporting Characters sucked big time.

-If Elektra is supposed to be a great character (I believe she got her own comic book) then this movie failed to captured that completely. She was nothing more than a chick that could fight, and her reasoning behind it was ridiculous (she trained her whole life, wow, that's original). Her fight with Matt Murdock was dumb. If I was at that playground I would so easily blackmail Daredevil because he made it so obvious to everyone who he was. It wasn't a cute scene. It was just stupid. I cared less when Elektra died too. We never knew her. She was just a pretty face.

I cannot believe they are thinking of producing an Elektra spinoff movie. She was as cool as Jinx (Halle Berry from Bond), another lame character some studio head thinks the audience's loved.

-Bullseye. An evil henchmen. Nothing new. Nothing more.

-Kingpin. An evil crime lord. Nothing new. Nothing more. HOWEVER, out of all the supporting characters, Michale Clarke Duncan did the best with the role he was given. He had charisma, and I found myself engaged by his presence on the screen.

-Daredevil's funny friend was funny. That was it. Wow, so much depth. I am rattling in my seat.

All in all, I liked the movie for Daredevil. Everyone else could go.

Greg

DarkAngel

02-18-2003, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Gpoliceman
-Bullseye. An evil henchmen. Nothing new. Nothing more.
I think Colin Farrell deserves a little more credit than that. He did a heck of job with his portrayal.

And how exactly is training for years ridiculous? How else would you expect someone to become a great fighter? Do you think Daredevil was magically imbued with fighting ability? He trained his whole life too. I don't see you criticising him. Bruce Wayne trained his whole life. I guess that's a major flaw of the Batman stories.

I know we didn't get in depth characterization for everybody, especially with the cuts that were made, but I think we have to be fair in our criticisms. I didn't find any of the supporting characters lame. If I had to rank the characters, most interesting to least interesting, I'd do so like this: Daredevil, Bullseye, Elektra, Kingpin. MCD was good, but I think Farrell and Garner were better. Especially Farrell.

Dadiomov

02-19-2003, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by Mattashell
In the comics, Elektra blames Daredevil for the death of her father, she tries to kill him, and later she finds out Daredevil is Matt Murdock, the only man she ever loved, Bullseye kills her and she dies in Daredevils arms.

Actually, I don't think any of the Elektra blaming Daredevil for her father's death and trying to kill him stuff happened in the comics. It was a change made for the movie. In the comics, her father was killed in Elektra and Matt's college days, pre-Daredevil. Then they meet years later when she is an assassin. Then Bullseye kills her and she dies in Matt's arms. I think the love story in the comics is more interesting, but I really enjoyed the movie nonetheless.

JusticeLeagueLegion

02-19-2003, 04:44 PM

Okay, I saw this movie last Saturday and I thought that it was a HORRIBLE imitation of a character from Marvel Comics that I considered to be kind of cool. The movie would have been much better...if that rapist guy would have confessed and Daredevil would have pulled him off the railroad tracks at the last second...but he didn't...he let him die...and that was the wrong way to go with the story...and when Matt first met Elektra, he started fighting her...stupid...just plain stupid. I hated Bullseye's character as well...the best character on the whole movie is the guy who kept on talking about the aligators that lived in the sewers...that's sad. I wasn't sad when Elektra died, it was done too quick..they should have waited till the next movie. The Stan Lee cameo was cool, but Spider-Man towers over this thing like a Space Nebula over an Atom. But I'll still watch Hulk, I'm not giving up on all things Marvel...and if there is a Daredevil 2, I'd probably see it too...but I am probably not going to see this one again. It was stupid. Anyway, I'll give it a star I guess...it deserves that. Not anymore, but just one.

Drachentöter

02-19-2003, 06:49 PM

Okay, I think people are taking this "DAREDEVIL KILLED" complaint way too far. Granted, the best hero is the one who considers killing a last resort, but that was essentially what Matt had become by the end of the movie. The entire point was that he learned a lesson. Killing makes you the bad guy.

I never read the Daredevil comic, but from what I've seen, I gather he's never killed in that medium. Well, to fit the dark tone of the film, the movie Daredevil had to begin as a dark vigilante in order to transform into the Daredevil that comic fans know. Actually, it's an interesting take on the superhero character.

Starflyer 58

02-19-2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by JustJack
Concidering how big of a fan the director is of Daredevil...I dont understand everyone's bitter mindnumbing chatter about how he didn't "get" Daredevil. I think for a hero's origin and evolution, he nailed it pretty damn well. Sure, I didn't like Matt hitting on Elektra as much an anyone else...I mean, he sure did go waaay into "creepy mode" when he decided to hit on the "nice smelling girl." Otherwise...I think the evolution of him from being a badass jury of justice, to a "good guy" was perfectly executed. It's not about him BEING the Daredevil of the comics...it was about him BECOMING the Daredevil of the comics. So...to you smelly fanboys....

screw you.

And I'm getting tired of this "No motivation" crap. Does the bad guy REALLY need to be up to some big grand scheme? Quite frankly, I always get extremely sick and tired of that. In X-Men, it was necessary. The mutant existance was a grand scheme which needed a huge conclusion. Spider-Man was all about his choices, and the development into a greater something...and so at the end, GG had to develope into the ultimate evil, and make the ultimate threat, and Spidey had to become the ultimate hero. But Daredevil has always been a more personal story. The baddies DD usually goes after are the one's he takes to court in the first place...or the ones who hurt him personally. Kingpin didn't need some grand scheme. All it took was assasinating those who just happened to be close to Matt Murdock. And quite frankly, I was extremely happy that they didn't try to make a grand scheme of things from this. Like he said, his territory is Hells Kitchen. It's not the world...it's just a bad neighborhood. It's just Josies Bar, and it's just Wilson Fisk.

I guess some of you just seemed too damn confused as to why they'd chose a story of character-evolution, and not a big story that would risk blowing up the entire city of New York. *shrug* Characterization has been lacking in movies for a long time...and granted, Bullseye and Kingpin didn't get their fare share...and Elektra needed a little more time, but still. At least we got to see Daredevil develope into a hero...something just about every other hero movie really lacks. It's about personal conflict, people. And it just worked too well.

Yes! Finally, someone gets it. At least, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person in the world who appreciated the movie for these reasons.

Thank you, kind sir. We are of one mind. ;)

JusticeLeagueLegion

02-20-2003, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
Okay, I think people are taking this "DAREDEVIL KILLED" complaint way too far. Granted, the best hero is the one who considers killing a last resort, but that was essentially what Matt had become by the end of the movie. The entire point was that he learned a lesson. Killing makes you the bad guy.

I never read the Daredevil comic, but from what I've seen, I gather he's never killed in that medium. Well, to fit the dark tone of the film, the movie Daredevil had to begin as a dark vigilante in order to transform into the Daredevil that comic fans know. Actually, it's an interesting take on the superhero character.

Technically he didn't kill him, he just let him die...he didn't save him...and as for him "not being the bad guy" by the end of the movie...it was too late by then.

The Guard

02-20-2003, 12:22 AM

I'm not a huge Daredevil fan, but I have been talking to die hard fans on SUPERHERO HYPE's Daredevil forum for months, and I've been assured that he has indeed killed in the comics, a little earlier in his career, which is what DAREDEVIL appeared to be.

Terminatah

02-20-2003, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion
Technically he didn't kill him, he just let him die...he didn't save him...and as for him "not being the bad guy" by the end of the movie...it was too late by then. "There's no such thing as too late, that's why they invented death!"

Walter Matthau, Out To Sea.

-Terminatah

Dadiomov

02-20-2003, 10:31 PM

Although Daredevil is not technically under a Superman-like oath to never kill, and I'm pretty sure Daredevil has at least tried to kill in the comics before, telling Bullseye "you'll never kill again" before dropping him from a high place, I was rather disappointed that he let the Quesada character die in the movie. However, I agree he did undergo an evolution by the end of the movie when he said "I'm not the bad guy." As a side note, I think it's far more disheartening the way Batman acted in his first film, dropping Jack Napier into the acid. Batman is a character who simply doesn't kill or try to kill, and that went against everything he stands for in the comics. Daredevil, on the other hand, is far more troubled and more likely to get caught up in the moment. That is what I think was going on in the train scene, him getting caught up in the moment, not some Punisher type justice. And, of course, he took the high road with Kingpin at the end of the movie, so that shows he knew the actions a hero must take.

Marc

02-20-2003, 11:04 PM

Batman didn't drop Napier into the acid, he lost his grip. While this is not 100% clear, it seemed obvious to me that the struggle in that scene was more of Batman trying to hang onto Jack, as opposed to Jack trying to pull himself up. Just my two cents.

In the comics DD began with the traditional "heroes don't kill" way of thinking, but it was mainly during Miller's run that DD began to act more cold. Let's face it, Miller put Matt throught hell and it changed him as a man and as a hero. This attitude continued well into Smith's run. Only recently has DD returned to his "let the courts decide" view on crime, although his patience is not what it once was.

The DD film sort of tackles Matt the opposite way; in the movie he begins heartless, and ends a "good guy". I think this would have worked better in a sequel, especially after a "Born Again" adaptation, so we could have seen Matt's journey and how he lost his way. It would have made us care more about his own redemption...but I'm nitpicking.

Great movie regardless.

- Cap

JustJack

02-21-2003, 01:01 AM

Another addition to the "Daredevil KILLS?" arguement.

I watched Spider-Man today. Remember after Uncle Ben dies? And Spidey breaks the crooks wrist, then just 'lets' him fall 3 stories out of a window after bashing his head into a couple window's. Did he die? I wouldnt be suprized. Even so...each hero has his first kill.

So...ha! Suck on it.

Dadiomov

02-21-2003, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by CaptainInfinity
Batman didn't drop Napier into the acid, he lost his grip. While this is not 100% clear, it seemed obvious to me that the struggle in that scene was more of Batman trying to hang onto Jack, as opposed to Jack trying to pull himself up. Just my two cents.

Yeah, I hear ya. But an argument against that would be the whole "I made you, you made me first" thing at the end. Batman admitted to "making" the Joker. If he had really just lost his grip, I think he would have said, "I tried to save you, you slime" or something like that instead of admitting to making the guy.

And at the end of Batman, he pulled Joker down when he was trying to escape, knowing full well that he would probably plummet to his death from the weight of the statue that Batman had connected to Joker's leg. I know Batman didn't really have much of a choice if he wanted to stop Joker, but it was still questionable.

Even worse, in Batman Returns, the "go ahead, hit me" circus guy ended up getting thrust with a bomb from Batman and then we hear an explosion. I know this was meant as more of a joke, and we never really learn the guy's fate, but come on, I'm pretty sure the bomb killed the dude. Regardless, shoving a bomb at a guy and pushing him down a hole IS NOT how Batman operates. It's these types of acts that I believe were outrageously out of character for Batman.

Daredevil, on the other hand, has in the hands of Miller and others become a character that does not operate under the same code as the comics Batman. So, I just think that Daredevil was characterized much more accurately in his movie than Batman was in his.

DarkAngel

02-21-2003, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by Dadiomov
Yeah, I hear ya. But an argument against that would be the whole "I made you, you made me first" thing at the end. Batman admitted to "making" the Joker. If he had really just lost his grip, I think he would have said, "I tried to save you, you slime" or something like that instead of admitting to making the guy.
Batman never would have grabbed him if he wanted him dead. Clearly he was trying to save him. However, despite the fact it was an accident, the end result was that he dropped him. That's all he's saying by admitting to "making" Joker.

And at the end of Batman, he pulled Joker down when he was trying to escape, knowing full well that he would probably plummet to his death from the weight of the statue that Batman had connected to Joker's leg.

Batman had no idea the gargoyle (or whatever) would come loose, so that wasn't intentional. However, we do know that he wanted Joker dead at that point, having discovered him to be his parents' killer. When he destroyed the factory earlier, he was clearly targeting Joker.

Even worse, in Batman Returns, the "go ahead, hit me" circus guy ended up getting thrust with a bomb from Batman and then we hear an explosion. I know this was meant as more of a joke, and we never really learn the guy's fate, but come on, I'm pretty sure the bomb killed the dude.
Yeah, you're right. He killed the guy, and pretty darn casually too.

JusticeLeagueLegion

02-21-2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by JustJack
Another addition to the "Daredevil KILLS?" arguement.

I watched Spider-Man today. Remember after Uncle Ben dies? And Spidey breaks the crooks wrist, then just 'lets' him fall 3 stories out of a window after bashing his head into a couple window's. Did he die? I wouldnt be suprized. Even so...each hero has his first kill.

So...ha! Suck on it.

Spider-Man let him fall, but he didn't push him, that's different, Daredevil pushed him down on those tracks...so therefore, he is responsible for his death.

The Guard

02-21-2003, 05:47 PM

Daredevil didn't push him onto the tracks for no reason. He was operating out of self defense. Quesada had a gun. Gunshots tend to mess up radar sense. And even after he fell to the tracks, there's no guarantee that Daredevil could have rescued him. The tracks were pretty far down there, and there was the sound interference from the train.

Ordinary Guy

02-22-2003, 03:38 PM

Wow, this movie was great.

I didn't expect this to be better than Spider-Man, but it ranks pretty good with other comic book movies.

I never read a Daredevil comic my only history with Daredevil was the Trial of The Incredible Hulk tv-movie, and the episode of Spider-Man:TAS were he was helping Spider-Man clear the name of Peter Parker for a crime Parker didn't commit.

Ben Affleck was great. I really felt for him the same way I feel for Batman. Case in point when he's talking to the priest, and the preist asks him "Why does he do it?" Then he replies " Because I Can." That was pretty powerful.

Jennifer Garner. I love her and all but really I thought her best scenes were towards the end from her fathers funeral to her supposed death.

Micheal Clarke Duncan. When I heard he was going to play the Kingpin I thought. Isn't the Kingpin a Spider-Man villian, as well as this is going to be awesome. He's the only person next to maybe Ving Rhames I would've considered for the role. I'm glad they didn't kill his character because i thought that would've been a lousy decision if they already have talks about a sequel in the future.

Colin Ferrell was pretty good. I like the scene in the Kingpin's office were he's talking about Daredevil and he's mad that he made him miss.

I liked the dark atmosphere the way the first Batman was.

I'll agree with everyone else when I say the fight in the park between Elektra and Murdock was pretty stupid. It was one of those "What sense does this make?" scenes.

Overall I gave it a 5.

On a side note the trailer for X-2 was hella-awesome. I can't wait for May.

JusticeLeagueLegion

02-22-2003, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by The Guard
Daredevil didn't push him onto the tracks for no reason. He was operating out of self defense. Quesada had a gun. Gunshots tend to mess up radar sense. And even after he fell to the tracks, there's no guarantee that Daredevil could have rescued him. The tracks were pretty far down there, and there was the sound interference from the train.

I suppose that's possible, you could be right.

Lonestarr

02-22-2003, 09:40 PM

I don't read comic books, and I won't pretend for a moment that I do.

Having said that, I enjoyed this film very much. Ben Affleck, Jennifer Garner and Michael Clarke Duncan did fine work, but Colin Farrell stole the movie, IMO. When I first saw him in the previews with that bullseye on his forehead, I said to myself "There are just some things that don't translate to live-action.", but his performance made me forget that.

The fight scenes were also incredible, if a little extreme. Memphis Bleek hit the nail on the head; you could see the R-rating peeking through in several moments (Elektra's impaling, the subway bisection). I also noticed the resemblance between Bullseye's hands and stigmata.

There were a few debits:

* - the scene in the bar was so badly lit, I couldn't tell what was happening

* - some of the songs were a bit intrusive (though I did love that song in the scene introducing Bullseye; anyone know what it was called?)

****

DarkAngel

02-22-2003, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Lonestarr

* - the scene in the bar was so badly lit, I couldn't tell what was happening
The strange thing is that some of it was in the trailers and looked fine there. Someone had also posted a link here a couple weeks ago to a site that had some clips from the movie. One of them was the bar fight. Again, it looked very clear. I'm not sure why it was so darkly lit in the theater. Here's the link. It's clip #6, I think. Check it out. The sequence is actually pretty good.

http://www.superherohype.com/cgi-bin/news/fullnews.cgi?newsid1044046401,67870,

Let me know what you think.

Terminatah

02-22-2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Lonestarr
* - some of the songs were a bit intrusive (though I did love that song in the scene introducing Bullseye; anyone know what it was called?) "Top O' the Morning to Ya" by House of Pain.

-Terminatah

Dr Kain

02-23-2003, 02:32 PM

My g/f and I went to see it yesterday. It was pretty good. Surprisingly Affleck did a good job, but they still could've gotten someone better. Duncan did an excellent job as Kingpin, and Bullseye was hilarious. I may buy it on dvd when it comes out. It was dark, moody, and lots of action. I just don't think they should make another one.

JohnStewart-GL

02-23-2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Lachesis
Finally saw this last night.

It was superhero cheese the whole way through, but it was GOOD superhero cheese. I think it helps I know nothing about the comics, so I didn't have anything to compare most of the characters to. Well, except Kingpin. Really wish that last fight scene didn't happen.

Oh, and I had to leave before the Bullseye extra in the credits. Can anybody spoil it for me please?
I havent seen it either but i heard that it has bullseye in a hospital. and he kills a fly or something. can anyone confirm?

Dr Kain

02-23-2003, 04:22 PM

Yes, you see Bullseye lying in a bed in a bodycast, and a fly is flying around his face. He is able to grab one of those medical needles, and throws it. You see it against the wall, with the fly right in the middle of it.

Drachentöter

02-23-2003, 06:37 PM

"Top O' the Morning to Ya" by House of Pain.

House of Pain also did the smash dance hit "Jump Around." They're a bunch of Irish rappers. :D

Are they still around? I thought they broke up.

Terminatah

02-23-2003, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
House of Pain also did the smash dance hit "Jump Around." They're a bunch of Irish rappers. :D

Are they still around? I thought they broke up. They did, the song is from 1992.

-Terminatah

DarkAngel

02-24-2003, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Lachesis
It was superhero cheese the whole way through, but it was GOOD superhero cheese.
What is it that qualifies a movie as superhero cheese? What about Spider-man or Batman? Did they have this "cheese factor" as well? If not, what was the difference?

Jade_GL

02-24-2003, 05:35 PM

I had a great time. I went in with the lowest of expectations and I was totally blown away. Now this is coming from an avid DD fan. No film can ever hope to match the majesty of Superman: The Movie, but this is the closest I’ve experienced so far. Daredevil makes Spider-Man and X-Men look pale in comparison.

Yes! I agree completely. While I really liked both movies, DD was just better. I think X-Men is almost as good, with SPider-man below both. Why did I like DD better than Spider-man? Here are my reasons.

- The endings. DD ends on a high note. Elektra may be alive somewhere, somehow. Bullseye was not just killed off, so he may come back, and DD has grown as a character into someone who won't exact such harsh justice on people, ie killing them or being indifferent. He realizes he's wrong in the end, and it's a generally pleasing ending. The only hope that the end of Spider-man gives you is that you HOPE Peter Parker will wise the fizzy up and actually get with Mary Jane. Besides that, and I don't care what kind of fanboy land you come from, the ending was a HUGE letdown after the entire movie. It was completely unrealistic and a bummer.

- DD CGI was ten times more believeable than SMs. Spider-man/Peter looked like a weightless balloon hopping around like someone who has no real mass. It looked cheap. DD looked like when he hit the ground that gravity was acting on his body. Maybe the darkness improved the overall effect of how everything came together, but it just looked cleaner and more like it could actually happen in real life. Some things could be tweaked I suppose of I go back and review the entire thing again, but it really worked from my point of view.

- Believeability. Peter/Spider-man is able to save both Mary Jane AND a big car (or whatever you call it) full of children. DD could not, in the end, save his love. Which is more believable? Which is more poignant? Sorry, DD had more tension and a certain weight to the story. People died, people got hurt very, very badly. It just makes more sense, especially when it's only one man against a group of villains.

Ok, I just had to get that out of the way. I think DD was a pleasant surprise. I really enjoyed it. My BF, who was very worried, loved it as well and was the first to voice that it kicked Spider-man's butt as a movie experience. Let me just say this....

I cannot wait for the DVD. :D:D:D

Radio Edit! ----->

What is all this stuff about DD killing and that he should have helped the rapist? He is not Superman or Batman. No one seems to complain when Wolverine whips out his claws and starts filleting baddies, nor did I see this kind of stuff out there when Storm in the X-Men movie blasted Toad with lightning, yet wasn't she killing him? Hmmmm?

Get over it. DD evolved as a character and came to a realization that what he did was not the right way to do things. He became something better! That's what a good movie will do, take a character with flaws and have them grow up over the course of the movie. He didn't push the guy onto the tracks. I was sure it just happened as a result of the fight and DD defending himself.

There's also an element of the audience being forced to look at this guy and evaluate who he is, what he does, why he is what he is. We are shocked, maybe appalled by his actions, but what would we do? Could we evolve out of that and become someone who will pull our punches instead of just letting someone fall on the tracks? I think it's all story progression. I understand why some characters don't kill, but not everything is so cut and dry. To pretend that all characters should have some sort of "Thou shalt not kill" oath is preposterous, especially when you consider the sheer amount of characters in comics and their origins. I wouldn't expect Punisher or Hitman to not be what they are in movies. While DD may not be like that in the comics right now (I have not read the darker stuff yet), it's good to see the character become something, not just be the same throughout.

That's my take.

DarkAngel

02-25-2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Jade_GL
Get over it. DD evolved as a character and came to a realization that what he did was not the right way to do things. He became something better! That's what a good movie will do, take a character with flaws and have them grow up over the course of the movie. He didn't push the guy onto the tracks. I was sure it just happened as a result of the fight and DD defending himself.

There's also an element of the audience being forced to look at this guy and evaluate who he is, what he does, why he is what he is. We are shocked, maybe appalled by his actions, but what would we do? Could we evolve out of that and become someone who will pull our punches instead of just letting someone fall on the tracks? I think it's all story progression. I understand why some characters don't kill, but not everything is so cut and dry. To pretend that all characters should have some sort of "Thou shalt not kill" oath is preposterous, especially when you consider the sheer amount of characters in comics and their origins. I wouldn't expect Punisher or Hitman to not be what they are in movies. While DD may not be like that in the comics right now (I have not read the darker stuff yet), it's good to see the character become something, not just be the same throughout.
Couldn't have said it better.

Justice League 2000

02-25-2003, 03:42 PM

I seen this movie a week ago Ben Affleck play daredevil well and Jennifer Garner as Eletra? she was right for the role. kingpin say get me bullseye. I like that line. michael clarke duncan did great too. he would make a good Solomon gundy. if WB did a JL live action movie. colin farrell did well too. :) I don"t read daredevil comic books. but I saw the movie.

Sue_Jackson

02-26-2003, 08:19 PM

I just saw it, and I have to say it's not as bad as I thought it would be because the critics really slammed this one. I'm just glad that I don't listen to critics. :p

Good points: Love the special effects to show us how Matt can use his other senses like a radar, and can form the images in his mind. I thought that was pretty cool. The action scenes where intense, and very nicely choreographed. I especially love the little sparring scene with Matt and Elektra. Also, the battle with the Kingpin and Matt was pretty good, too. I thought that the actor who played the Kingpin was very good. I thought that Ben Affleck did a good job playing Daredevil, and took the actions scenes well. Kept me entertained. I never read the comic book, but to me, this was like the comic book came to life.

Not so good points: Dialoug wasn't much to be desired. Wasn't much of a plot. The character Bullseye was a little too much for me. I thought the guy was a little too psychotic, and not too much smarts. In fact, I thought the guy was kind of an idiot. The character Elektra was okay when she was figthing, but her overall character, I thought, was too distant. Also, thought that the story was a little too depressing. I don't know if that's the nature of the comic book, but the whole movie just felt like it needed some kind of anti-depressant medication. May be I just don't go for that that kind of thing. :rolleyes:

DarkAngel

02-26-2003, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Deina
Also, thought that the story was a little too depressing.
That's one reason I liked it so much.

Bluntman

02-27-2003, 12:21 PM

OK. Granted, it's not an Oscar-winning movie, but it was very well done IMOO. I felt that Ben Affleck brought what I expected to the role of Daredevil: a solid performance. After all, he is a DD fan. Michael Clarke Duncan was awesome as Kingpin. In all honesty, I thought it was a little odd casting him. But wehn you see him in the suit with the cane and cigar, he is The Kingpin. He looks so imposing, cold, and calculating. And no one else in Hollywood could play the role anyway, no one else has the size to. Jennifer Garner was...........OK. Not great, not horrible. Just serviceable. Collin Farrell was cool as hell as Bullseye. A little over the top, but he brought a cool factor to the character he never had in the comics. And Jon Favreau was gold as Foggy Nelson.

The plot was kinda crappy, but it's a comic based movie. There has to be leeway given there. It could have been better, but seeing as how Daredevil was the last character I ever thought they'd make a movie about, I'll take it for what it was.

The effects were awesome. I loved how they handled DD's radar. It was so cool.

Overall, it was an enjoyable flick.

Though I do have one gripe with some of the people posting: Why no love for Spider-Man? The movie was great in regards to the characters, and it ddin't mess anything up to the point of annoying fans. And by the way, the ending was meant to show a trait of Peter Parker that is always pevalent: The guy can't get a break. Yes, he loves Mary Jane, but his life as Spider-Man puts her in danger. So he rejects her feelings in order to keep her safe, because he loves her. Even with all his powers, he can't win.

James Harvey

02-27-2003, 12:23 PM

I saw this article up at www.ew.com and I just had to copy and paste it here for all you to enjoy. Check it out:

The nation's No. 1 movie got one thing right: Daredevil's pec-hugging bodysuit, helpfully inscribed with the telltale initials ''DD,'' is unsightly enough to have been designed by a blind man.

But that's about it for realism in Daredevil.' Even graded on a generous comic-book-movie curve, the film exhibits an uncommon disregard for the dictates of logic, common sense, and physics (Jennifer Garner's sturdy leather sportsbra excluded). Sure, the movie's $70 million-plus take suggests its lapses didn't faze many moviegoers. But even the most ardent Marvel Comics worshippers shouldn't have to put up with the level of silliness we've uncovered [warning: spoilers ahead].

LEGAL PROBLEMS - Justice may be blind, but 'Daredevil's sloppy take on the legal system is just jaw-droppingly dumb. Ben Affleck's Matt Murdock must be the ditsiest lawyer since Ally McBeal; He, and the moviemakers, don't know whether he's a private attorney or a government prosecutor. The film establishes Murdock as a partner in a law firm, only to cut to a scene of him as a finger-pointing, speech-making prosecutor in a rapist's criminal trial. Then, when the rapist gets off (the jury must have been as confused as the audience), Murdock puts on his S&M outfit and pushes him in front of the 'C' train. Now that's due process.

MOURNING BECOMES ELEKTRA - Daredevil offers the most miraculous resurrection since Paul Abdul found a TV gig. In the film's climactic fight, Colin Farrell's Bullseye shreds Elektra's throat and impales her on her own sword; we see her heart stop. So how does she come back to life at the end? When Elektra croaked in the '80s ''Daredevil'' comics, a group of helpful ninjas revived her in a magical ritual. But there's nary a ninja to be found here. More puzzling: Instead of expressing bewilderment at his girlfriend's miraculous return from the grave, Affleck simply murmurs something about ''hope.'' Our hope? No Daredevil 2.

POWER OF ATTORNEY -- Daredevil's makers touted their star as an all-too-human superhero who combats the aches and pains of crime-fighting by gulping Slim-Shady-worthy doses of Vicodin. So why do they betray their concept by showing Daredevil floating around Manhattan like a cross between Spider-Man and Mighty Mouse? Daredevil, whose only superhuman abilities are enhanced senses, is shown dodging bullets with a Neo-like ease, casually hurling himself from the top of skyscrapers, and making absurd 300-foot leaps from rooftop to rooftop. Forget Vicodin -- what this guy needs is a coffin.

OPEN SECRET -- Matt Murdock seems to have trouble understanding the ''secret'' part of ''secret identity.'' Sure, being a blind dude helps keep people from figuring out that you're a costumed crusader by night -- as long as you don't blow your cover by flaunting your abilities in broad daylight. But that's exactly what Murdock does in front of dozens of strangers in his cutesy first meeting with Elektra, engaging in an elaborate martial arts brawl that no blind man could ever attempt. Meanwhile, Elektra adds to the scene's foolishness with her alarming comfort about pummelling a cane-toting, shades-wearing sightless guy -- in public, no less. Talk about a bad blind date.

Comments?

Jade_GL

02-27-2003, 12:52 PM

I don't care about what they think. It was a good take on it, and it's supposed to be fiction. The courtroom scene was a little lame, I'll admit that, but everything else said isn't that important to me. Batman is a REGULAR human with NO SUPERPOWERS, yet he jumps off buildings, dodges bullets, and does crazy kung-fu in all of his movies. It happens in every superhero movie I've ever seen. (Except for Superman I believe)

So, I think it's kind of unfair to nitpick about this when Spider-man got super good reviews, and I personally thought it was good, but lacking in many points as well.

It's all up to the reviewer and the person I suppose. I loved the movie and had a ton of popcorn eating fun, and am eagerly awaiting the next movie and the DVD when it comes out. Isn't that what's important in the end? That it's fun and makes you forget about the real world for a while? I don't want my superhero movies to be dragged down by realism, but at the same point, I found a lot of this movie more believeable than many other, better reviewed, super hero flicks.

Oh well. :) I am a DD supporter, so I guess that's that. :D

DarkAngel

02-27-2003, 01:50 PM

He, and the moviemakers, don't know whether he's a private attorney or a government prosecutor. The film establishes Murdock as a partner in a law firm, only to cut to a scene of him as a finger-pointing, speech-making prosecutor in a rapist's criminal trial.
That's true, but minor.

MOURNING BECOMES ELEKTRA - Daredevil offers the most miraculous resurrection since Paul Abdul found a TV gig. In the film's climactic fight, Colin Farrell's Bullseye shreds Elektra's throat and impales her on her own sword; we see her heart stop. So how does she come back to life at the end? When Elektra croaked in the '80s ''Daredevil'' comics, a group of helpful ninjas revived her in a magical ritual. But there's nary a ninja to be found here.
There was no explanation given, so I'm not sure what his problem is. This is obviously something that will be dealt with in the Elektra spinoff. And if he's okay with Elektra being resurrected by magic, then he should be ready to accept anything. I don't see what the issue is.

POWER OF ATTORNEY -- Daredevil's makers touted their star as an all-too-human superhero who combats the aches and pains of crime-fighting by gulping Slim-Shady-worthy doses of Vicodin. So why do they betray their concept by showing Daredevil floating around Manhattan like a cross between Spider-Man and Mighty Mouse? Daredevil, whose only superhuman abilities are enhanced senses, is shown dodging bullets with a Neo-like ease, casually hurling himself from the top of skyscrapers, and making absurd 300-foot leaps from rooftop to rooftop. Forget Vicodin -- what this guy needs is a coffin.

Yeah, Daredevil combats aches and pains. What's that have to do the way he travels? If Matt didn't want any pain, he wouldn't be Daredevil. He's obviously willing to put up with the pain in order to deliver justice. Complaining about the exaggerated leaps is just as ridiculous. This is based on a comic book, remember? We're accepting that people can have powers from spiderbites, gain super-enhanced senses, be powered by the yellow light of the sun, and other equally impossible things. After all that, leaping 300 feet from a building is absolutely nothing.

OPEN SECRET -- Sure, being a blind dude helps keep people from figuring out that you're a costumed crusader by night -- as long as you don't blow your cover by flaunting your abilities in broad daylight. But that's exactly what Murdock does in front of dozens of strangers in his cutesy first meeting with Elektra, engaging in an elaborate martial arts brawl that no blind man could ever attempt.
Spiderman had the same problem (Peter's fight with that bully at school). I wonder if he complained about that. Or about Batman's identity being revealed to Vicki, Selena, Chase, and Max Shreck in the Batman movies. Or Superman hiding his identity with a pair of glasses.

Come on. With the exception of the defense/prosecutor problem, the rest of these complaints are kind of silly.

Stu

02-27-2003, 07:27 PM

The folks from www.ew.com are a bunch of tools. No better way to describe them. Talk about nitpicking a decent movie to death.

*OFF TOPIC*

Though I do have one gripe with some of the people posting: Why no love for Spider-Man? The movie was great in regards to the characters, and it ddin't mess anything up to the point of annoying fans. And by the way, the ending was meant to show a trait of Peter Parker that is always pevalent: The guy can't get a break. Yes, he loves Mary Jane, but his life as Spider-Man puts her in danger. So he rejects her feelings in order to keep her safe, because he loves her. Even with all his powers, he can't win.

Thank you Bluntman. It seems to me that people have turned on Spideys movie for no apprant reason. He didn't get the girl because he is Peter Parker - everything goes screwy. Its part of his character - he not one of those heros who "saves the world, gets the girl". Its usually "saves the city, gets hated for it, loses the girl (MJ has left him in the comics) and goes on to do it again". People aren't understanding Spider-mans character and are critising the movie for it. But enough about Spider-man.

Most of the reviews I've read of Daredevil are nitpicking it, probably becuase its a big blockbuster. Other have stated that it was an enjoyable film. I have yet to read a review on how it followed the comics so well, stayed true to the characters and looked bad ass at the same time. DD brought to a live action world, as it should be. I'm looking forward to seeing it again.

Mattashell

02-27-2003, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by The Red Bird
(MJ has left him in the comics)

Oh yeah? Check out the latest issue of Amazing (#50) ;)

Originally posted by The Red Bird
I have yet to read a review on how it followed the comics so well, stayed true to the characters and looked bad ass at the same time.

There's a good reason for that.

DarkAngel

02-27-2003, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Mattashell
There's a good reason for that.
I'm not that familiar with the Daredevil comics. Could you elaborate?

Drachentöter

02-28-2003, 11:54 AM

LEGAL PROBLEMS - Justice may be blind, but 'Daredevil's sloppy take on the legal system is just jaw-droppingly dumb. Ben Affleck's Matt Murdock must be the ditsiest lawyer since Ally McBeal; He, and the moviemakers, don't know whether he's a private attorney or a government prosecutor. The film establishes Murdock as a partner in a law firm, only to cut to a scene of him as a finger-pointing, speech-making prosecutor in a rapist's criminal trial. Then, when the rapist gets off (the jury must have been as confused as the audience), Murdock puts on his S&M outfit and pushes him in front of the 'C' train. Now that's due process.[/B]

To be fair, he did have a client. Joe Quesada's rape victim. I'm not all that sure how the legal system works (never been sued :p ), but I suppose he has the power to bring a criminal case to a court's attention and prosecute the suspect. My guess anyway.

Most everything else isn't worth commenting on, since it's obvious the critic was going out of his or her way to bring down the movie. The ONLY thing that rings true is the playground comment. That's a bit much, even for me.

czyznyck99

02-28-2003, 12:03 PM

From www.malaysiakini.com

KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysia has rejected an appeal to reconsider the ban o_n the Hollywood film Daredevil starring Ben Affleck because it contains "excessive violence," officials said today.

Distributor 20th Century Fox had appealed to the Film Censorship Board seeking a review after the state-owned Film Censorship Board imposed a ban two weeks ago.

The film is an adaption of the Marvel Comics character Daredevil.

When contacted, 20th Century Fox declined to comment o_n the verdict. "We have no comments," o_ne official told AFP.

The movie, originally scheduled for general screening beginning Thursday, was banned from Malaysian screens February 11.

So countries are banning the movie, fashion know-how wannabes are smashing the costumes, and jealous reviewers and obsessive comic book fanboys are ripping the movie to shreds. I think I will go back to my quiet college research project...

Later.

DarkAngel

02-28-2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
To be fair, he did have a client. Joe Quesada's rape victim. I'm not all that sure how the legal system works (never been sued :p ), but I suppose he has the power to bring a criminal case to a court's attention and prosecute the suspect.
I remember that he did have a client, but it's the rapist that would be on trial. If Matt wasn't his attorney, then he'd have to be the prosecutor. I don't know much about the legal system myself. Can a person be a prosecutor for one trial and a defense attorney for another?

Bobby Boy 101

02-28-2003, 04:23 PM

I think u either hafta be just defense or just proscecution, but I only know from like TV and stuff, LOL

I have seen DD 2 and a half times (seein it again tomrrow) since opening weekend, and I LOVED it so much, It is like constantly in my HEAD, all day long. I didnt really feel like posting my story yet, cause its kinda messed up, but I think u guys might get a kick out of it:

Me and my Dad dont get along at all, and havent since I was like 10 years old, but every now and then we grudgingly go to dinner somewhere and 'catch up', even tho the night is mostly silent. So my Dad calls me up and asks me If I want to go see a movie, and since Im grounded from my friends bu not from him, Im like "yea I guess, but we hafta see Daredevil!" so he was like "umm ok", and I figured it be fine, cause u know, its only PG-13 and its not seXually driven (my dad's really uptight bout everyhting, but especially bout sexXx)

SO he and my step mom and my sis all pick me up on the 15th, and we're goin straight to the theatre at like 4 somethin...so we get in late (my dad has NO concept of time) and Im mad cause I just missed the Phone Booth trailer, and I love that trailer, but u know im being very nice, considering the circumstances (I dont like to even talk to my dad, much less spend time w/ him but hey free movie)...

WELL the movie starts, and my dad is kinda weirded out by the whole feel of the movie already (as well as the 'satanic' costume, LOL), so when we first see DD throw that thing at Quesada (hits him in the mouth) in the bar fight scene, my step mom like literally jumps out of her seat and is like GASP and she and my dad are like freakin out b/c of the violence, (ha go watch the patriot), and as I hear them gasp and shreak and see them covering their eyes, Im thinkin "I shoulda known . . " and then when DD lets Qesada get run over by the C train, my dad like has a spasm and 'has to go think about this', so he leaves for a few minutes, but comes back just in time to make some stupid comment about Jennifer garner showing 'too much cleavage'....and Im like "omg, u know, hes ruining the Xperience, why did I ever agree to this??!!!"

SO we finally get to the scene where Bullseye is playin Darts, and Im like YEA BULLSEYE! cause i love that guy, and then he takes off the beanie and my dad sees the scar, coos dissapprovingly, and then came the DREADED PAPERCLIP SCENE! the second he throws em into that guy's gobbler my dad stood up and was like WE'RE LEAVING THIS MOVIE! THIS IS EVIL! THIS IS NOT HEALTHY FOR US! I CANT WATCH THIS! and so we leave, I knowing I have abslutely NO other means of transportation to go home after the movie if I were to stay...so I had to leave...:(

but hey ive seen it twice since, and am gonna go see it again tomorrow YAY!

Mattashell

02-28-2003, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by DarkAngel
I'm not that familiar with the Daredevil comics. Could you elaborate?

Meh! My comments are on page one, and if I were to argue my point any further I'd just be repeating myself. Like I said, the movie was better than I expected, but still pretty bad. I think the thing that saved it the most was (most of) the cast. If you like the movie anyway, that's fine with me. You can like it if you want, but I will still have to disagree for the most part. I'll still buy the DVD, because it's Daredevil, and I'll still see the sequel, and MAYBE, the spinoff. I just really wish Johnson had done a better job with the material.

Before I drop this subject completely I have to address one other post here.

Originally posted by The Guard
I'm not a huge Daredevil fan, but I have been talking to die hard fans on SUPERHERO HYPE's Daredevil forum for months, and I've been assured that he has indeed killed in the comics, a little earlier in his career, which is what DAREDEVIL appeared to be.

Did these guys site any examples. I'm quite familiar with millars work on the series, and skimming through the Visionaries TPBs, I haven't found any examples of the comics version of DD being a murderer. True, Elektra, who is in fact a villain, is a hired assassin, who kills people left and right for a little bit of money I know of no example of DD killing anyone on purpose.

Daredevil is a dark character. - true

He suffers internal struggles. - true

He is vengeful. - true

These things don't have to mean ho goes around taking human life.

Daredevil Visionaries: Frank Miller Volume 2

Chaper 2 (Daredevil #169)

After a hard fight Daredevil defeats bullsye on a subway track, and train begins to aproach. Daredevil is temped to let the train run him over, but drags him out of the way at the last moment.

Daredevil Visionaries: Frank Miller Volume 2

Chapter 7 (Daredevil #174)

After defeating a Hand clan ninja, Daredevil attempts to interrogate, but the nija commits suicide rather than talk. Daredevil didn't kill him.

Daredevil Visionaries: Frank Miller Volume 2

Chapter 14 (Daredevil #181)

After Bullseye killed EleKtra, Daredevil and Bullseye are fighting on a high wire (power line? phone line? clothes line? I don't know.) Bullseye falls and Daredevil catches him by the hand. Bullseye threatens to kill Daredevil, and Daredevil let's him drop. BULLSEYE DOES NOT DIE.

Daredevil Visionaries: Frank Miller Volume 3

Chapter 9 (Daredevil #191)

Daredevil plays Russian Rullette with Bullseye. In the end it is revealed that Daredevil's gun never had bullets in it.

Did Daredevil ever take an oath not to kill? I can't say that I know, but he definitely lives by a no killing code. Like most people he doesn't have murder in him, and it is beyond his power to let another person die on purpose.

I am willing to accept that the Daredevil of the movie is not the Daredevil of the comics, changes must be expected, but I wish they wouldn't have made this particular change. As far as the arguement that Daredevil didn't "kill" Quesada, I say this. The movie did nothing to suggest otherwise, and Daredevil mocked the man as the train ran him over. The way I see it, he killed him, and he did it on purpose.

People can try to insult me with the word "fanboy" but that does nothing to support an arguement. it simply shows resorting to namecalling. If a fanboy that demands a good story character development, and artistic integrity in these films, and in this case, respect to the source material, then fanboy is a compliment, because it means "intelligent person". I don't know what the word is for people who devour any flashy overproduced garbage Hollywood pumps out and rabidly defends it.

That was a bit harsh, but my comments have taken a beating since I posted on this thread. The way I see it, Daredivil had some great portrayals of comic characters, and some bad ones. It had some great visual scenes, and some bad ones. The story was not properly set up, and the characters were upstaged by the action. The movie was too flashy, and fast paced instaed of focussing on depth and telling the story. There have been some comments that score should have been used in place of popular-style songs. This is a sign that the film is focussing on mass apeal and marketing more than art, and it is.

This post is not meant to be a flame or to suggest that anyone has flamed me. I didn't like the movie (as much as I wanted to), and I've stated my reasons. Others liked it, and that is a matter of taste. I don't want anyone to take my negative comments on this movie as a personal attack. I probably liked some movies you thought sucked to. Well, we're all friends so it's all cool. We just have a difference of opinion that's all.

To Bobby Boy 101: I'm really sorry that your filmgoing experience turned out that way. I really can't stand people behaving badly in theatres, and it's just plain embarrassing when it's the people you're with.

Stick a sai in me I'm done. I never intended on following up my initial comments, and I don't intend to do it anymore.

The Guard

03-01-2003, 01:24 AM

Did these guys site any examples. I'm quite familiar with millars work on the series, and skimming through the Visionaries TPBs, I haven't found any examples of the comics version of DD being a murderer. True, Elektra, who is in fact a villain, is a hired assassin, who kills people left and right for a little bit of money I know of no example of DD killing anyone on purpose.

Yes, they did cite examples. Quite a few of them. It was a few weeks ago, but go to www.superherohype.com, and do a search on the DD board for something called "Daredevil kills?"

Bobby Boy 101

03-02-2003, 11:57 AM

thanX 4 ur sympathies, Mattashell, and I understand what u mean bout ppl calling u a fanboy in a derrogatory way...I really think its a positive thing

BUT yes, overall, I loved the movie

Starflyer 58

03-02-2003, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Jade_GL
I don't care about what they think. It was a good take on it, and it's supposed to be fiction. The courtroom scene was a little lame, I'll admit that, but everything else said isn't that important to me. Batman is a REGULAR human with NO SUPERPOWERS, yet he jumps off buildings, dodges bullets, and does crazy kung-fu in all of his movies. It happens in every superhero movie I've ever seen. (Except for Superman I believe)

So, I think it's kind of unfair to nitpick about this when Spider-man got super good reviews, and I personally thought it was good, but lacking in many points as well.

It's all up to the reviewer and the person I suppose. I loved the movie and had a ton of popcorn eating fun, and am eagerly awaiting the next movie and the DVD when it comes out. Isn't that what's important in the end? That it's fun and makes you forget about the real world for a while? I don't want my superhero movies to be dragged down by realism, but at the same point, I found a lot of this movie more believeable than many other, better reviewed, super hero flicks.

Oh well. :) I am a DD supporter, so I guess that's that. :D

I'm with ya all the way, Jade! :) Just saw the film again today - all the criticism I'd been hearing seemed so unfounded as I watched. Love this flick. Man, I remember a time when I seriously though this movie would be a letdown for the Daredevil follower like myself. I am so happy to have been proved wrong. Seeing my favorite superhero realized with such reverence on the big screen is an immensely satisfying experience.

Bring on the director's cut!

Bobby Boy 101

03-02-2003, 06:45 PM

god yes, that Director's Cut R-Rated No-punches-pulled graphic-as-can-be Daredevil DVD had BETTER NOT be a rumor...I want it all in its entirety..the SexXx, Violence, and actual light on the fight scenes :D

Starflyer 58

03-02-2003, 06:59 PM

Well, I'm more looking forward to it for the subplot and respective character scenes that were cut. And it is a for sure thing, Mark Steven Johnson has said it will be out by Christmas. The theatrical version will hit shelves sometime this summer. :)

Mattashell

03-03-2003, 05:44 PM

I wonder if Coolio's character = The Turk.

BlackoutCreature

03-03-2003, 10:49 PM

Well i finally saw it today. I thought it was a good movie, not spectacular, not as good as Spider-Man and X-Men, but well worth the money.

I do have to agree with the people complaining about Daredevil killing so much. I am willing to except him going overboard and killing Bullseye in a fit of rage over Elektra dying, but this is the guy who's usually used as the polar opposite of The Punisher in terms of his vigilante style, and here he's killing people left and right. If they had made it seem like Daredevil killing Quesada (boy, it feels nice to say that doesnt it? :D ) as a final resort then i wouldnt complain, but he seemed more interested in blood then justice.

Also ive seen people say that something like 25 minutes was cut from the movie. U can really tell. It looked rushed at times and some of the things didnt fit together as seemlessly as i wouldve liked. Most noticeably for me was the end where Daredevil reveals that the cops know that Fisk is Kingpin and theyre coming for him. How do they know this? There was nothing in any earlier scenes that would even hint at the cops or Ulrich being close to figuring this out. The only reason Daredevil knew was because Bullseye told him, and nobody else was around to hear him. Did Bullseye tell the cops before he died?

Beyond that though i thought the movie was perfectly cast and the changes made to translate it from a comic to a movie were well done and necessary. 3 1/2 *'s.

DarkAngel

03-04-2003, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by BlackoutCreature
I do have to agree with the people complaining about Daredevil killing so much. Quesada
What do you mean by "killing so much"? Quesada was the only one, wasn't he? Bullseye wasn't killed. And I don't recall people dying left and right.

BlackoutCreature

03-04-2003, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by DarkAngel
What do you mean by "killing so much"? Quesada was the only one, wasn't he? Bullseye wasn't killed. And I don't recall people dying left and right.

There was Quesada. I thought he had killed Bullseye (i only recently found out he didnt), but he was trying to kill him. There was that guy Daredevil trapped in the building with the kid. And in the scenes with Ulrich and the cops, they more then hinted that Daredevil had killed before off-camera. Im not saying it was a bloody mess everywhere a la an 80's Swartzenegger movie, but they definately made Daredevil into a killer, which is something i dont agree with them doing. But like i said, i enjoyed the movie over-all.

Skiptastic

03-23-2003, 02:33 AM

Two things:

1. I liked this movie more than Spiderman because in Spiderman, I only wanted Peter Parker scenes, the action scenes bored me and I didn't like them. I liked mostly all of the scenes both as Matt Murdock and Daredevil.

2. Colin Farrell made this movie freaking crazy good. He was absolutely perfect. Every scene he was in was made better by his job. I was giggling when he was on the plane and when he first hit Daredevil in the church. That was freaking cool stuff. LOVED Colin Farrell in this.

Spider-Man

03-23-2003, 02:59 AM

I finally saw this movie last week and I enjoyed it. Not as good as Spider-Man, but really entertaining. The movie was fast-paced, albeit choppy, and very fun to watch. I wish I had more to say but everyone has pretty much said all I wanted to!

And did anyone else notice that bald spot on Kevin Smith? It's gotten much bigger since Vulgar!

Daredevil was a fun, fun movie. Colin Farrel was just perfect as Bullseye. He was just so dead on!

Salvor

03-23-2003, 05:38 AM

I sort of enjoyed the movie, but overall it was very disappointing. What I liked: Bullseye's "don't give a damn" attitude, Ben Affleck (while I usually find him to be a terrible actor, he managed to act well in this one), the beginning (the first shot of DD bleeding was priceless), DD's extreme methods.

What I hated:
The cliched and extremely poor dialogue ("go get them Matt!" :yawn: )
The somewhat confusing and amateur-ish direction (the shot of DD stadning in front of the flames: so cheesy, it almost reeks of Batman & Robin), which is compounded by weird eidting (isn't the pace of the movie too fast?)
Elektra's character is completely messed up: her origin is uninteresting (trained to protect herself: right), her love affair with Matt is rushed and she dies way too fast.

Overall another movie that doesn't make up to all the hype surrounding its release...

Stu

11-30-2004, 01:08 PM

The Directors Cut is finally released today! Talk about the new version here!

Release Date: February 14, 2003
Studio: 20th Century Fox
Director: Mark Steven Johnson
Starring: Ben Affleck, Jennifer Garner, Michael Clarke Duncan, Colin Farrell, Jon Favreau, Joe Pantoliano, David Keith, Scott Terra, Erick Avari, Coolio, Ellen Pompeo, Frankie J. Allison, Kevin Smith

Plot Summary: Marvel's legendary comic book hero - known as the Man Without Fear - comes to DVD with an all new, R rated Directors Cut with over 20 minutes of additional scenes!

To talk about the disc itself, check out the DVD Talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=127754)

Comments?

Even if he only made a handful of animated appearances, there's plenty of discussion on the animated adventures of Daredevil at The Marvel Animated Forum (http://forums.toonzone.net/forumdisplay.php?f=83).

Spider-Man

12-01-2004, 01:23 PM

I watched the Daredevil: Director's Cut last night and what a difference! The movie is still flawed in many ways but this new cut is terrific! It really fleshes out the movie more ands adds a bit more to the characters. The action is more brutal which fits with the tone. Alot of the edits were for the better and really helped make the movie flow. I don't understand why they would want to cut all of this material out of the movie.It makes the flick so much better. It's a huge change to the movie. This doesn't make the movie a 10/10, but maybe a 7/10.

Now if only Fox would release the first X-Men with the 30 minutes they cut out of that movie.

DarkAngel

12-01-2004, 07:36 PM

I watched the Daredevil: Director's Cut last night and what a difference!Sweet. I didn't realize it was out. Question for ya: Were the fights any clearer? In the original version, I thought the fight scenes were too dark and the camera-work too quick. I couldn't get a sense of the blows connecting or really appreciate any of the choreography. Do they come across better in the director's cut?

Spider-Man

12-08-2004, 12:06 PM

Sweet. I didn't realize it was out. Question for ya: Were the fights any clearer? In the original version, I thought the fight scenes were too dark and the camera-work too quick. I couldn't get a sense of the blows connecting or really appreciate any of the choreography. Do they come across better in the director's cut?
The fights are a bit clearer because some of the edits aren't so quick anymore. We see most of the shorts connect more brutally now. The barfight is a bit longer and bloodier and the Kingpin fight is more brutal as well. The scenes are still dark and quick but some of the shots linger for a bit longer. The barfight is really amped up compared to the theatrical cut. You can tell alot of the new "R" rating came from there and from Bullseye's potty mouth.

DarkAngel

12-08-2004, 03:22 PM

The fights are a bit clearer because some of the edits aren't so quick anymore. We see most of the shorts connect more brutally now. The barfight is a bit longer and bloodier and the Kingpin fight is more brutal as well. The scenes are still dark and quick but some of the shots linger for a bit longer. The barfight is really amped up compared to the theatrical cut. You can tell alot of the new "R" rating came from there and from Bullseye's potty mouth.Cool. Thanks. I'm hoping to rent it soon. I liked the theatrical version, so I'd imagine I'll love the DC.

Knight

12-08-2004, 03:41 PM

It seems like it is worth checking out Daredevil is a movie I have grown to like and since their is a directors cut now it might be a good time to go ahead and purchase it.

Wesyeed

12-08-2004, 06:00 PM

Definetely a worthy purchase; the commentary is pretty good. Avi Arad is... he's alright. What's most interesting besides the changes is what the dudes behind the changes have to say about what was cut in the theatrical release. What I found most interesting were the opposing view points of the Director and I'm guessing the producer, I'm not sure. He's the guy at the desk counting his money... What he says is that the theatrical release is the definietive version and that this director's cut is just (a way to make more money?) something for the fans... Right. Sure. :cool:

Whatever, the director knows his movie got butchered and I respect his honesty declaring the theatrical a flawed version. I still like it, even felt it was way better than Spider-man 1, but it was too fast paced. i dont know where big studios get the idea that fast paced popcorn flicks with no substance make the better buck. Titanic was almost 4hrs long... Star Wars pushes 2 and a half. 90 minute movies have their place, but i'm not payin 10 bucks to see one.
Well I have made my choice. This is my definitive version of DD.

It's darker, scarier, funnier, and ben affleck absolutely dissapears into the role... Gone. It's freakin' amazing. It's a movie with a soul, exactly what the theatrical lacked. Plus the plot actually makes more sense.