The Trade Towers.

[Frozen]

I can't believe what I'm seeing on the TV.

I genuinely don't know what to say. I'm sure that everybody here on the boards, especially those of us in the UK, extend our deepest possible sympathies to everybody touched by these horrifying events.

I am numb. I can't believe this could happen.

May God help us all.

[Singin' Stray Cat]

Thank you - and may God especially help the families of all those who were killed.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Yes. I hope that only a few were killed. Too any who were I extend my deepest sympathies...

....and I too thank you, Frozen for offering sympathies from the UK. Geez, I can't belive this happened...and right now my mood is more undescribable more in the fact I SHOULDN'T be describing it right now...

[Frozen]

There is no chance of a low body count. Hundreds, at least, will have been killed in the planes alone, let alone the Trade Centre...

And it's not over yet. Someone has just declared war on the US in the most graphic way possible.

[Psycho Fox]

Yes, who ever planed this is totaly sick. The # of innocent people killed would be high.

Anyway I have a freind in the Canadain Armforces I just got word from him that all of the Canadain reserves have been put on full alert and a air patrol of canadain air space is commensing.

[Frozen]

An immense amount of planning and logistical accumen has gone into this whole attack. The older I get, the more amazed I am at humanities genius when it comes to war...

We're about to see the true calibre of George Bush JR...

I fear the worst.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Speculation has it that this might have something to do with the U.S. pulling out of the recent racism conference.

I'm at school in the library, so I didn't see it on TV. Good thing, probably.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Trust me....it's a good thing you didn't see the video, Jojo. Just seeing those two magnificent buildings collapse like that-it was horrible. And one account says at 50,000 people alone just WORK in the buildings each-not counting any other people. Geez....they say by the end of the day we'll have clearer stats.

....And here's hoping George Jr. has got what it takes...and I hope whatever he does bares fruit.

[happyheathen]

Originally posted by Frozen
We're about to see the true calibre of George Bush JR...


Actually, what we will see is the 'rules of engagement' set loose - I give it 50/50 for strategic nuclear retalliation...

[Frozen]

It gets worse. I hear another passenger jet has been shot down. The death toll just keeps going up.

And, happyheathen, As I said, I fear the worse.

God help us.

[dendawg]

Originally posted by happyheathen


Actually, what we will see is the 'rules of engagement' set loose - I give it 50/50 for strategic nuclear retalliation...

If so, we'd better get ready for World War III!

[happyheathen]

Originally posted by dendawg


If so, we'd better get ready for World War III!

well...

the (well-published) rules were that either of the following attacks on US civilians would bring mushroom clouds:

a. Chemical
b. Biological

so, the question is: does size of conventional explosives equate to either chemical/bilogical attacks?

and, I will simply repeat the observation:

'since the fall of communism, the remaining poweres are the West (read: USA) and Islam.'

These are not always compatible.

[Dante Bunny]

Please don't let it be a war started! We all in this country got lives to live, please spare the innocent, God.

[Salvor]

This is just appalling. The death toll isn't just going up, it's barely imaginable! I sure as hell don't understand how human beings could possibly do this.

And "here's hoping George Jr. has got what it takes"? You do not wish war will break out, do you? Cause the death toll is ghastly enough to me! No more Hiroshima please.

I don't think there will be war. But economic measures and any other form of retaliation are in the offing. Of course, bomb attacks are bound to be part of this retaliation.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Salvor
I don't think there will be war. But economic measures and any other form of retaliation are in the offing. econimic measures? hell I want to see the bastard that planned this hung

[Salvor]

I think the identity of the terrorists group will soon be known.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Excuse me, Salvor-I meant I hoped Bush would not simply do nothing, He soon said he ordered a relief investigation after my very first post on the topic, and I lauded him for that. I certainly do NOT want war!!! :mad:

And in my opinion, it may take a while to learn who planned this. We are helpless in trade sanctions because we do not know which, or IF, a nation secretly sponsered this.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by dendawg


If so, we'd better get ready for World War III!

It seems more like an independent acting terrorist group than a nation. All speculation, and possibly conspiracy, though.

[happyheathen]

folks -

as an old guy who has seen as many wars as he wishes to see:

this attack REQUIRES military response - the politics of the West/Israel/Islam are very complex, but this is not a time for subtlety - I consider these attacks as declaration of war, and expect appropiate response. sadly...

[Frozen]

I concur in that is IS a declaration of war - I only hope, speaking as a non-US citizen, that the world is not dragged into a nuclear holocaust... I have faith that, though, that common sense, and mankind's instinct for self-preservation, prevails before it comes to that.

[The Dork Knight]

I'm scared....You know why? I LIVE IN NEW YORK! SO NEW YORK MAY BE BOMBED! Please god, help us all.

[James Harvey]

The last thing the world needs is another war. The people who did this deserve to suffer. I never condone violence but something must be done.

[Failure]

Originally posted by Frozen
I concur in that is IS a declaration of war - I only hope, speaking as a non-US citizen, that the world is not dragged into a nuclear holocaust... I have faith that, though, that common sense, and mankind's instinct for self-preservation, prevails before it comes to that.

I think this is more just a display of cowardice than a declaration of war. When a country declares war, at least you know who your enemies are.

However, I also hope that common sense and a cool-headedness prevails. A war is the last thing we need. Forget all the big nukes, what's really scary is all the possible chemical and biological warfare devices that exist. If those were ever used, a whole world could die out before they even realize what's going on.

However, some reaction is needed, and I'm not going to say it shouldnt be of some militaric force. I hope it's not needed, but I'm not sure there's an alternative.

However, another thing we don't need is politicians going off trying to raise a ruckus drawing the anger of the general public. Did anyone see the politician on tv who basically said, screw education, screw health care, what we need is intelligence and more national defense? Now I'm not saying national defense and intelligence isn't important. It is, it is very important. However, in the big picture more peoples lives are ruined by poor education, povery, no health care, and so on, than victims of terrorism. It's just not as glamorous.

[joker]

this is crazy. ive heard all sourts of speculation about who did it, neo nazis, african americans striking out for slavery....some of the things going around are ridiulous......people are saying thats its the end of the world, the bible has predidicted it, all the stuff we heard clost to the end of 1999. none of this is true. but this is crazy! turn on cnn. we are bombing afganistan! whats going on?

heres what i know.
they think it was ben abdual-whoever you say it
4 planes crashed, 3 into important buidlings 1, in the middle of nowhere.

mass explosions are happining in afganistan, possibly bombing from the us.

ill be praying

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Failure
[B]

I think this is more just a display of cowardice than a declaration of war. When a country declares war, at least you know who your enemies are.

[B]

I agree. And some say there may be a bigger thing to this than we think. It may not be just, "Oh, it's that so and so government's fault, let's retaliate."

A lot of speculation is that some of the terrorists have key positions in America, maybe even American citizens themselves, like the one who was executed not too long ago. This may be a group that has connections worldwide. That seems like a possibility. Not to start jumping conclusions, but this operation was so carefully crafted and well researched, one has to think that this isn't a mere group or an all-foreign overseas terrorist group.

It seems that the worst attacks don't come from the outside, but from the inside, to paraphrase an oft-used quote.

Beefing up national defense is also good, but make sure you watch out for cancers from the inside. I suspect that this particular case may not be an all-out war as many jump the conclusions to, but rather it requires a covert "flushing" out of the ones you LEAST suspect. The FBI has their work cut out for them.

[optimal321]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
The last thing the world needs is another war. The people who did this deserve to suffer. I never condone violence but something must be done.

Exactly. These people who died were not soldiers. They were working people. Civilians. Anyone of us could have been in that situation. Somebody's loved one died today. To say the least. And for what? I don't even see the point. But honestly, i'd rather not be on the same wavelength as the type of person who would do this. This is lunacy.

[Failure]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo


I agree. And some say there may be a bigger thing to this than we think. It may not be just, "Oh, it's that so and so government's fault, let's retaliate."

A lot of speculation is that some of the terrorists have key positions in America, maybe even American citizens themselves, like the one who was executed not too long ago. This may be a group that has connections worldwide. That seems like a possibility. Not to start jumping conclusions, but this operation was so carefully crafted and well researched, one has to think that this isn't a mere group or an all-foreign overseas terrorist group.

It seems that the worst attacks don't come from the outside, but from the inside, to paraphrase an oft-used quote.

Beefing up national defense is also good, but make sure you watch out for cancers from the inside. I suspect that this particular case may not be an all-out war as many jump the conclusions to, but rather it requires a covert "flushing" out of the ones you LEAST suspect. The FBI has their work cut out for them.

I agree, something that was as well organized and synchronized like this takes an enormous amount of manpower, resources, and money. I find it a bit suspicious that we had absolutely NO CLUE at all. Either huge mistakes were made or like LLJ said, information was distorted or diverted by insiders. As much as we want to place blame, we should try to keep our minds open to all possibilities.

[Maxie Zeus]

Just to be clear on the matter, there are only a handful of nations in the world that could do serious nuclear damage to the US:

1. Russia
2. China
3. United Kingdom
4. France

Clearly, none are responsible for this outrage, or would take the side of those who are. (Whatever our suspicions of Russia and China based upon our strategic rivalries, these are responsible powers that play by the normal rules. This attack was not "normal.")

Thus, when worrying about nukes, the ones with the most to worry about are those on the receiving end of the US arsenal. Moreover, I suspect the only way nukes would be used would be if the country in question was too remote to be got at easily with conventional weapons, and which do not have an industrial infrastructure which could be destroyed. The only countries that would probably qualify are Sudan, Afghanistan, and the ex-Soviet republics in the Caucausus and Central Asia. None of which are in the position of doing anything back except by launching (more) terrorist attacks. If indeed such a country is responsible for today's attack, plainly they are not waiting for an invitation before starting their own "war" with us.

I doubt the "nuclear option" would presage anything worse than we have already gotten.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Failure


I agree, something that was as well organized and synchronized like this takes an enormous amount of manpower, resources, and money. I find it a bit suspicious that we had absolutely NO CLUE at all. Either huge mistakes were made or like LLJ said, information was distorted or diverted by insiders. As much as we want to place blame, we should try to keep our minds open to all possibilities.

I do hope this is solved, though. It seems very tricky. Hopefully, all the leads were not destroyed in the disasters.

[Failure]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo


I do hope this is solved, though. It seems very tricky. Hopefully, all the leads were not destroyed in the disasters.

Yeah, that is usually the problem with disasters, a lot of evidence either gets buried or burned out. It could be a while, but I have confidence in the FBI/CIA and whoever else is helping out.

[Jowy Blight]

Damn.....I just hope this doesn't start a war, that's the last thing we need, with all the nukes we have today.

God help us, should this start a war.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

There goes a third building...

[Maxie Zeus]

This thread overlaps with the big one. But instead of merging them, I'm just going to unstick it.