AOL Time-Warner loses $45.5 billion more...and Ted Turner

[J Lee]

The company's net loss for 2002 came in at $100 million it announced today (http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77012,00.html), and at the same time, the company's biggest shareholder, Ted Turner announced his resignation as Vice Chairman, to spent more time concentrating on his philanthropic activities.

Given the plunge in his stock since March 2000, I'll be Ted feels a little like Elmer did after he got the telegram that Uncle Louie kicked the bucket.

Given his galloping politically correct nature over the past 15 years (well, actually PC for you and me but not for he, see?), I'd say this move is good news for fans of Speedy and any cartoons in the WB library featuring Indian characters, but Turner's still the biggest stockholder, so he may be out of an official job, but he's not all the way out the door.

[Matthew Hunter]

I feel bad for him, but not for the rest of the world. Good riddance in that respect.
-Matthew

[Sogturtle]

Yeah John~

I just read the good news a while ago... Buuuuuut before we buy party hats it might be well advised to wait to see IFFF he quits the board as well... Turner has been down for the count numerous times before. IFFFFFF he really does quit everything at A-T-W then who really knows what he'll do (philanthropic work for the rest of his life???).

It should be pointed out that something is up (okay actually down, WAY down) at MGM, as massive majority owner Kirk Kerkorian has dumped a tremendous pile of shares sending the price into the crapper. Would Ted be thinking of going after MGM AGAIN??? It's a sick, sick company but Turner turned his own company around in the past, maybe he is eyeing Metro thinking he can save it... (Unlikely but who knows...). Of course that would give him control of the DePatie-Freleng cartoons. (In a more twisted notion yet, imagine him thinking he can get in on the division of Universal away from its French overlord, yeah right!). But with that we'd get Ted over Woody Woodpecker!

[J Lee]

Given Barry Diller's autocratic nature, seeing him and Turner at Universal at the same time would be worth the price of admission to the studio tour (I'd assmue they'd give Ted the Norman Bates house on the lot as his new office).

MGM is more interesting -- for the past 35 years, Kirkorian (jeez, he's been there longer than Louie B. Mayer now) has used the company as bait to lure in unsuspecting suckers, who take all or part of it off his hands, only to have him later pull it back in again at a fire sale price when they run into financial trouble (Kirk always kept rights to the MGM name, and the casinos). Turner almost fell into that category when he came close to defaulting on his $2 billion payment for the MGM/UA/pre-48 WB library, but was just able to get off the hook and survive by creating (in order) TNT, TCM and CN with the backing of the cable industry.

Considering the committments he made three years ago when he was worth $3-4 billion on paper, and all the upkeep on his vast western landholdings (on which he has to pay property tax as well as upkeep), I don't know how good Ted's cash flow is at this time and if he wants to try and go up against Kirkorian (who has his own pending alimony problems) one more time. If you start seeing a bunch of buffalo ranches from Montana to New Mexico come on the market, you'll know he's not making a play for anything for at least a little while.

[Mike]

Originally posted by J Lee
Given his galloping politically correct nature over the past 15 years (well, actually PC for you and me but not for he, see?), I'd say this move is good news for fans of Speedy and any cartoons in the WB library featuring Indian characters, but Turner's still the biggest stockholder, so he may be out of an official job, but he's not all the way out the door.

Actually, I've read that Turner's been very unhappy with his diminishing role at Time Warner over the years, especially since the AOL merger, when he was reduced to practically a non-entity. I really don't know how much of the PC nonsense that's been going on at CN over the past few years (the banning of Speedy, the blacklisting of Bugs cartoons like A Feather in His Hare and Horse Hare, and more) Ted is actually responsible for. Remember, after the Turner-Warner deal in the mid-90s, when Ted still had some power, TNT was regularly showing Speedy cartoons and stuff like "Scalp Trouble."

I still believe that Turner was one of the best things that could've happened to the pre-48s. Through MGM/UA and Turner Home Entertainment, many more cartoons were put on video by Turner than were ever put on video by Warner Home Video. In 1996, WHV had enough unreleased post-48 cartoons (and popular ones too, starring popular characters like Bugs and Daffy) to fill up most of the "Stars of Space Jam" set. And there are still many unreleased cartoons that remain! Would WHV have ever done a "Golden Age of Looney Tunes" set like Turner did? I doubt it! And you could certainly have forgotten about a "Bugs and Daffy: The Wartime Cartoons" video!

In short, I'm sorry to see Ted go. Yeah, he hasn't done much the past few years, but in the 1980s and mid-90s, he was very good to us classic cartoon fans.

Mike

[Jerry Beck]

And here's food for thought:

With Ted Turner gone from AOL-Time Warner, how long do you think CNN and CARTOON NETWORK will remain based in Atlanta?

[Nelson]

That's a very good point you made Jerry..Maybe they'll move to New York City where most of the cable networks are based, like ummmm right next door to Viacom????

[Killtacular]

I can see CNN moving but I don't think Cartoon Network or Williams Street will move. Cause then.. hell.. they couldn't be called Williams Street anymore (Williams Street is named after the address their building resides at).

In seriousness though, I don't think there'd be much to gain by CN moving to NY. AOLTW has already made it clear that CN and Kids WB do not synergize well, and I don't think they're up for trying it again.

If CN were to move, I'll be sure to pass the word along.

[Jerry Beck]

I'm not saying they WILL move from their Atlanta base - However, I don't think they'd move to New York - If anything they'd move to Burbank, California where there is already a huge Cartoon Network Studios building, and the exceutives of KIDS WB. There is also a huge Warner Bros. Animation Studio building in Sherman Oaks (where DUCK DODGERS is currently in production) which is pretty empty.

[Matthew Hunter]

I think Larry Doyle told me that Sherman Oaks is where the theatricals are being done too. Are they in the same building as Duck Dodgers? If not is should be, and there should be other projects going. "Pretty empty" is not a good sign, considering things I've heard about an animation job shortage. Man, if an animation studio is 'empty', then someone needs to throw some money at new projects.

The whole Korean/overseas animation thing is no doubt hurting the American animator job market too....I don't care what's cheaper, but I wanna someday go into cartoons and animation in some form (I'd obviously need training after college though). I sure don't want to have to move to a foreign country to get a job in it, and I sure as heck don't want to get paid pocket-change for it when folks like WB make tons of moeny off the finished product. But I understand that's what's happening to a lot of American animators. Plus, if they did it all under one roof with supervision by the director and writers like the classic days, I bet errors would be easier to fix, and the timing for things would be much better. Not to say the overseas people don't do a great job, but I'd be willing to bet an on-site crew would do it better.

-Matthew

[J Lee]

You're probably right, Jerry, especially if (as rumored) AOL Time Warner is willing to sell off CNN or merge it with ABC or CBS' news operations, if the price is right.

CNN is the only one of the Atlanta-based Turner networks that really requires much staffing for on-air activities -- the others, like Cartoon Network, TNT, TBS or TCM can be run from pretty much anyplace in the country that has access to a satellite uplink. If CNN is sold, odds are the buyer would consolidate operations in New York, leaving a big empty space with a lot of rental overhead in downtown Atlanta.

TBS is licensed to Atlanta for their over-the-air broadcast on UHF Ch. 17, so they have to maintain some presence, but the TNT, TCM or CN could be moved either to Burbank or New York pretty easily. CN's move to the west coast would make the most sense, while TNT's only reason to stay put would be because they share so many films each month with TBS. TCM could relocate to either New York or L.A. depending on which is more cost-effective for the channel.

[Geezil]

Originally posted by Nelson
That's a very good point you made Jerry..Maybe they'll move to New York City where most of the cable networks are based, like ummmm right next door to Viacom????

Yesss! Hold that thought for a good long while, Nelson!! And as it happens, just a few hours before you wrote the above, Mrs. Geezil was wondering aloud whether Turner Out might indeed lead to Sourpuss In. (Aside to any advanced experts in the English language reading this: I agree 100% that nothing could ever make that previous sentence work, so please pretend you never saw it.) Better yet, just imagine all your Terrytoons pals someday showing up way bigger than life on one of those video billboards around Times Square ... !!!!!!! :D

[J Lee]

Actually, if Paramount was still headquartered in the old Gulf & Western Building on the north side of Columbus Circle in New York, as of next October they'd be right across the street from each other! (http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/frontpage5.asp) (warning: It's a long article, but it does show that given the investment AOL T/W is making in this danm building, CNN is almost 100 percent likely to move its main operations there if it's not sold off to ABC/Disney or ... Viacom (CBS).

[Argus Sventon]

TBS is actually located in the Midtown part of Atlanta, with a huge self supporting antenna still at the Spring Street location.

I hope AOL-TW keeps CNN in Atlanta. It's such a tourist attraction and everything's under one roof. The Turner division has got a lot of assets tied up in Atlanta with CNN Center and Philips Arena. Maybe AOL-TW will sell the Turner properties (TBS, TCM, CNN, and the three Atlanta sports teams) off.

Maybe the Popeye toons could be sold to Viacom too?