No reruns for Mobile Suit Gundam...

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

As expected, CN is pulling MSG after its initial run, if I have understood correctly from a recent press release. Ratings are predictably down from when DBZ was occupying this slot. So those out there planning on watching the show in reruns--forget it! Finish it now, or just get the 3 movies for a truncated version (the movies are better in the respect that they cut out most of the useless filler battles crap and go straight to the main battles, plot and characters).

[killercroc]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo
As expected, CN is pulling MSG after its initial run

DAMN!

[Flying Grayson]

THis sucks, and I have missed several episodes. I know why DBZ's ratings are down... they keep showing reruns. Keep Moblie suit Gundam and Put Gundam wing back on too. With DB and DBZ on as well, this would be a good toonami run, but they never listen to common sense.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Flying Grayson
THis sucks, and I have missed several episodes. I know why DBZ's ratings are down... they keep showing reruns. Keep Moblie suit Gundam and Put Gundam wing back on too. With DB and DBZ on as well, this would be a good toonami run, but they never listen to common sense.

Actually, I said that the ratings were higher when DBZ occupied this slot. It kinda illustrates the kind of audience Toonami actually has. They like flash, they like action and anything without either sucks to them. MSG has a lot of action, but it's not what I would call "eye-candy" and it has a fairly complex plot and fairly complex characters. Also, the animation looks really crusty to the mainstream viewer.

[Vigo Sprax]

Oh well, I could care less as long as they continue to release the series on DVD.

Actually, this could be bad for future Gundam shows coming over..anyone know how 08th MS Team is doing?

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

08th MS Team is on in the night, so ratings should naturally be lower, but it should be doing well. It has flash, it has a fast-moving plot, and the characters are quite accessible. Shiro is pretty much someone many males can relate to (i.e. Is a competent fighter who goes soft on any enemies who have a v*gina...)

The 08th MS Team DVDs are great! Bandai is doing good with it...

What worries me is some of the 80s Gundam releases, and how Bandai will handle them. I say skip them on TV and just release them on DVD. I also hope a Japanese track for Mobile Suit Gundam sees the light of day here, as the current MSG DVDs are dub only because of negotiation problems.

[batboy2001]

DAMN! My sentiments exactly, don't feel to bad Flying Grayson I missed some episodes to.:( This was the first anime I ever really really liked. So Leaping when is it over?

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by batboy2001
My sentiments exactly, don't feel to bad Flying Grayson I missed some episodes to.:( This was the first anime I ever really really liked. So Leaping when is it over?

When the series ends. Lucky for you guys they will air it through rather than cutting it off in the middle.

I believe Amuro should be starting to hit the peak of his abilities by now, and is officially a mass murderer. You'll get to see what comes out of this, so don't worry.

[I.R Joey]

This is not good. I wanted to see it through agaijn, because I missed some stuff.

BTW Larry how close are we to the end of this series (not including OVA's and stuff)

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I dunno. I don't get CN, personally. I can only watch at my friend's. Could you guys give me a number on how many episodes have aired? I'm assuming it's up to 30 or so by now. 43 episodes altogether.

The upcoming OAVs should be fine; they are newer productions, have slicker animation, and have more flash.

[Flying Grayson]

Originally posted by Leaping Larry Jojo


Actually, I said that the ratings were higher when DBZ occupied this slot. It kinda illustrates the kind of audience Toonami actually has. They like flash, they like action and anything without either sucks to them. MSG has a lot of action, but it's not what I would call "eye-candy" and it has a fairly complex plot and fairly complex characters. Also, the animation looks really crusty to the mainstream viewer.

Sorry if i sounded like I hate Toonami. I watch it regularly(more so when there are new episodes of a series I like. I just acted out of my natural response to the news, although most of the episodes I watched are in the first half of the series so I am okay now

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Flying Grayson


Sorry if i sounded like I hate Toonami.

I didn't get that reaction at all. I just wanted to point out that you might have misunderstood me, or I was unclear. DBZ was getting higher ratings than MSG (as expected) and there is no way that MSG can compete with the rest of the Toonami line.

[Jowy Blight]

That's too bad, I was going to tape the episodes while they were reruning. I like watching DB, but watching two episode's of DBZ is getting on my nerves. They have already finished dubbing the first 28 episodes, they should just show them.

Yep, they're only going to show the first 28 episodes of the Majin Buu saga. It's kind of messed up seeing as everybody has been waiting for the newly dubbed episodes for a while.

[I.R Joey]

Monday's ep is duel in Texas Larry.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Only 6 episodes left, then. Expect the last four to be somewhat plot-packed as the creators crammed to finish the show--they originally planned it to be around 52 episodes. After being notified of cancellation, they were given a few episodes to wrap things up by 43 episodes. Ironic that the U.S. broadcast would receive the same fate 20 years later. Except unlike in Japan, it won't be able to build a following through reruns.

MSG should be almost or around its most intense point of the series now. Well? Is it? Do any of you feel any gradual shifts in suspense? Any build up? Lalah Sun gives the show a distinct mysticism.

BTW--Most reports I've read say that the midnight airings INCREASED a little with the addition of 08th MS Team. So that show is doing JUST FINE.

08TH MS Team is also the replacement for MSG. Not surprising. I bet CN foresaw this, as 8th MS Team seems to have been edited for an afternoon airing.

BTWBTW--There doesn't seem to be a specific date on when they will pull the plug on MSG, though it seems that it will be soon after the initial run or right after. It's possible that they may air half a second run and then cancel it...

[Vigo Sprax]

I personally think its a little dumb to move 08th team into the afternoon slot, with only 12 episodes I really don't think it belongs there (Though I guess those who are watching it on CN can finally see the final episode). A lot of the edits they did on 08th team were really lame, you don't see Bebop getting this treatment...

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by Vigo Sprax
A lot of the edits they did on 08th team were really lame, you don't see Bebop getting this treatment...

That would be because 08th was edited for an afternoon run (just shown on the midnight run first). Where CB was edited for a midnight only run with a rating of TV-14 VL (The highest rating they could go with out hitting TV-MA). Comparing the two isn't really fair.

[batboy2001]

Only 6 episodes left, then. Just six!! wow I missed more than I thought. So Leaping, what is the 08th like? It seems to have more action.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

08th MS Team is pretty good. I like it myself, and I haven't heard anything too bad from people who've seen it. It's only 12 episods, so the show packs quite a bit of plot. I can't think of too many complaints against it, other than the fact that the plot is specifically set up to get two people into a romance. But then, all stories are meant to be somewhat contrived.

Personally, I would beware of reports saying they are "happy" or "unhappy" about MSG. Reaction reports are unreliable. Fox Kids was reportedly "pleased" with Escaflowne a week before they decided to pull it off the air permanently. Still, the logic proposed by Guybrush is sound, as 0080 and 0083 have been dubbed for years now and are ready for airing. Seems logical to pull MSG and air these two now.

It's true that MSG can't be compared to DBZ, but a 42% drop from DBZ repeats is admittedly quite a bit--even Gundam Wing episodes can prevent such a deep drop.

I won't discount the possibility of subsequent runs, but I don't think, given the option of other anime, MSG would take precedence over any of the recent ones on the lineup.

08TH MS Team can easily be followed up by 0080, a 6 episode side story following the events on a colony in the last few weeks of the One Year War, and 0083, a 13 episode story that takes place 3 years after the war. 0080 and 0083 are already dubbed on VHS, and only need minor edits.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Mr. Obsession

I also expect that as soon as 08th MS Team finishes up it's first afternoon run it will be pulled so that they can air 0080, which will be pulled so they can air 0083. Once all that has happened I expect it all to repeat once again. Besides they have to air all this before Bandai will let them air Zeta Gundam and Double Zeta Gundam, both of which the people behind Toonami want to air badly.



How do you know this? I haven't heard anything about them wanting to air Z Gundam and ZZ Gundam "badly." I'm going strictly by press releases and actions, though. I have no insider information. If anything, 0083 and 0080 seem to have more going for them than the above 2 series. Well, at least 0083...

The alternate Universe Gundams seem to have more selling points--

I've always thought that maybe G Gundam would fly well with CN, but there are some ethnic stereotypes on G Gundam that wouldn't fly too well. That leaves Gundam X and Turn A Gundam. Now, Turn A Gundam is actually pretty slow, and it resembles MSG's slow cooking plot, except with the greater freedom of the 90s, Turn A Gundam does not have to put a long action scene in every episode. So Turn A is actually pretty character driven. There are also no really heavy mobile suit battles until the last half of the show, so that may turn off viewers. Personally, I think Turn A is great.

Gundam X is the other AU series, and it most resembles Gundam Wing, so it might just be sellable. Gundam X borrows a lot from G Wing, which borrows a lot from MSG, and waters it down with a lot of silly gags, bits and ludicrous characters. MSG had a bit of this, but Gundam X is waay out there in the silly stuff department.

The UC Gundams of the MSG continuity seem to have less going for it. Other than 0080, 0083 and 08th MS Team, all the other series are either dated or look kinda crappy. While the UC Gundams tend to be more serious and have more "meat" to them, they are also pretty dry, especially to Toonami viewers. Zeta Gundam is a series most every Gundam fan should see at least once whether you like it or not, and I don't know what CN plans to do with it. ZZ Gundam is pretty silly with some stupid comedy, but it actually might appeal to today's fans, and is not entirely bad. V Gundam looks crappy and is really serious. It has a good, involving plot, but the visuals are a real turn off to today's fans.

[batboy2001]

Leaping I just gotta ask, how do you know so much about anime? I consider you and I.R. our local anime experts.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Years of experience and absorption, friends who get the latest up-to-date shows on bootleg VCDs, and participating in several boards on the web. I like keeping my doors open for everything, so I just soak all this crap up that I read. I'm also a pretty fast researcher, and can find stuff I want to know within minutes.

But I only research *specific* stuff deeply. I'm pretty much the main Gundam guy here, though I'm not an encyclopedia to the point that I can identify specific Gundam robots. I can't tell an RX-78 from a 8946490-GFHX, whatever that is...I'm more into the human aspects of Gundam.

I'm not a Pokemon expert (RockitShipper and Belch know more than me), and I know lick about Digimon.

I don't know a lot about Tenchi, and my Dragon Ball Z knowledge is very foggy. Sailor Moon I know, but that's a guilty pleasure that I learned more about through watching lots of episodes rather than research. Cardcaptor Sakura is something a former girlfriend used to like, and I learned about it through her.

So in summary, I know only specific genres of anime, but I try to learn a little bit of everything. Just like with OLD American animation, which I'm starting to absorb now with viewings of Betty Boop and Little Lulu...

I tend to do all this "learning" on my spare periods and day-offs. Yesterday I had the day off, and all my friends had classes, and my car is broken, so I was stuck at home posting here for most of the day, doing stuff that geeks do on a slow day. I'm super-busy next week, though, so no more "I have no life" activities for me...

Gawd, I have a lot of crap in my head.

[batboy2001]

You might want to check out this anime forum http://animenation.net/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=a22a99a68cbe7cb60d36bc6322f4d822.

[I.R Joey]

I don't really watch as much anime as I should. I just absorb knoweldge about these things really easily.

[Jowy Blight]

Yeah, I kinda noticed how much Larry knew on Gundam, exactly how many different Gundam series are there? I'm kinda a expert too, but in one anime series, which is the Dragonball series.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Too many Gundam series to count.

Mobile Suit Gundam (1979)
Mobile Suit Gundam Movies I-III (1981-82?)
Zeta Gundam (1985)
ZZ Gundam (1986-87)
Char's Counterattack (Movie) (1988)
Gundam 0080 (Mini-series OAV) (1989)
Gundam F91 (1991)
Gundam 0083 (Mini-series OAV) (1991)
V Gundam (1993)
G Gundam (1994)
Gundam Wing (1995)
Gundam X (1996)
08th MS Team (Mini-series OAV)(1996)
Gundam Wing Endless Waltz (Mini-series OAV) (1997)
Turn A Gundam (1999)

Those are the main ones.

[batboy2001]

What about the side stories?

Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Variation

MS-X

Mobile Suit Gundam
Cross Dimension 0079

Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story
The Blue Destiny

Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story 0079
Rise From The Ashes

Gihren's Greed

Gundam Sentinel

Mobile Suit Gundam
Double Fake

Mobile Suit Gundam
Hathaway's Flash

Mobile Suit
Gundam F90

Mobile Suit Gundam F91
Formula Wars 0122

Mobile Suit Gundam
Silhouette Formula 91

Mobile Suit
Crossbone Gundam

Gaia Gear

New Mobile Report Gundam Wing
Episode Zero

New Mobile Report Gundam Wing
G-UNIT

New Mobile Report Gundam Wing
Blind Target

Plamo-kyo Shiro

SD Gundam

SD Gundam
G Generation

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I didn't count the manga and novels. If you do, you could be typing all day.

[batboy2001]

In other words Gundam is BIG. What time do you get up Leaping?

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I went out at 8:00pm last night and came home at 11:00pm and went straight to bed. Woke up at 7:59am today. I've been waking up early ever since I started working full time in August, and even though I'm at school and don't work FT anymore, the habit is still there.

[Jowy Blight]

So much Gundam! So, a series was made only 2 years ago at the most. I wonder if they are planing any more? Larry, out of what you've seen, which one is the best.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Zeta Gundam is every Gundam fan's favourite. Personally, I think it is the most *intense* Gundam series out there, and it's incredibly bleak and dark, but my minor problem with it is that the basic setup is similar to the original's. Guy with extraordinary Newtype powers falls in love with a girl similar to Lalah Sun and gets a rival, you know, just like MSG. The only difference is that Zeta Gundam's plot is more complex and character driven (less filler battles), and the characters' fates are drastically different in many ways.

My personal favourite is Turn A Gundam, with Zeta following second or third. I like Turn A because it is a pretty daring new take on the franchise, and Zeta for its intensity.

My favourite OAV would probably be 08th MS Team, though 0080 is actually better written and more artistically redeeming.

[Jowy Blight]

Heh, I'll have to make a point to watch those then. MSG, from all that I saw was great, same with 08th MS team. I guess they'll show the last episode of 08th team after they finish MSG.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Well, looks like MSG has been unexpectedly put off before ending its run, possibly due to recent circumstances.

Makes me wonder if 0083 will air anytime soon, as THAT plotline might not be acceptable at the current time. I don't see much wrong with it myself, but there are a few little things...

[Flying Grayson]

well, msg is back agian, but what was with the two DB and 2 DBZs yesterday, and now reshowing the last dbz from yesterday, that was odd, I was worried about MSG because I thought I would never see the ending

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Gundam is about explosions and war and civilians getting in danger. I suppose CN wanted to take a break from that for one day. Though maybe not, as DBZ has explosions. But I heard it was a rather tame episode yesterday...

Gundam gets REALLY chilling from 0083 to the end of Zeta Gundam. The events there can really be creepy considering what happened yesterday. And if the U.S. reaction to the attack is anything like Zeta Gundam's reaction to 0083, I'd be scared...

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I think CN skipped an episode. "Char and Sayla," an episode that was originally scheduled to air on Tuesday, did not air on Wednesday either. That was an important episode.

[Flying Grayson]

If I may ask what was it about, I would like to know what episodes that Cn is leaving out. And the didn't show it agian today, I wonder whats up with CN lately, maybe the WTC disastor had something to do with it, and maybe no one is ready to watch a show about war yet.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

If MSG really is gone, I'll tell you guys the ending, if you want.

[batboy2001]

Please do Leaping, I was gunna ask you anyway.

[Jowy Blight]

Sadly, I think the show is gone, please tell us the ending.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

I'm only guessing where they left off, but here goes, in a very brief manner:

Lalah Sun and Amuro meet again and find that they are NEWTYPE soulmates--in other words, they declare their love for each other. Char shows up, and Amuro, with his bloodlust running high, tries to kill Char, but Lalah, still feeling loyal to Char, sacrifices her life to protect him against crazy Amuro. So Amuro ends up killing Lalah accidentally.


Meanwhile, Degin Zabi, tired and exhausted of the war, negotiates peace with the Earth Federation, but Giren has an ace up his sleeve and he lets loose the BIG weapon, destroying a third of the federation fleet. Giren soon takes over as supreme leader of the Zeon, and rallies the Zeon forces to continue the fight. A final battle takes place at A Baoa Qu, the Zeon's last line of defense. Giren and Kishiria confront one another over their father's death, and Kishiria shoots Giren and attempts to take out Char as well.

Char gets the heck out of the fan, and runs into Amuro again. Each blames the other for Lalah's death, and after they destroy each other's Mobile Suits, they continue fighting in person. They end up fighting into A Baoa Qu's interior, and White Base arrives to the fortress with the Fed fleet, and are hammering the Zeon at their door. Sayla runs into Amuro and Char and manages to break off the fight (Sayla being Char's real sister--they skipped that episode that talked about it, I think). Char decides to go off on his own to tie up what he was in this war for in the first place--to take down the Zabi family. He finds Kishiria attempting to flee the battle and kills her, fulfilling his vengeance. Char then leaves the fortress to places unknown.

The fortress is destroyed and Amuro, Sayla and White Base are reunited in a bittersweet manner. The Zabi family is dead and the Zeon is now under civilian control again. They surrender and make peace with the Feds, signing the truce on January 1, 0080, marking the end of the One Year War.

[Jowy Blight]

Whoa, that really blows me away. It would've been better to of actually seen it though. So, anybody know what CN's next Gundam show will be?

Heh, If it hadn't been for MSG I would of never liked it the way I do now. Mainly because when I watched GW, I had no idea what was going on. The main character's were jerks also.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Jowy Blight
Whoa, that really blows me away. It would've been better to of actually seen it though. So, anybody know what CN's next Gundam show will be?

Heh, If it hadn't been for MSG I would of never liked it the way I do now. Mainly because when I watched GW, I had no idea what was going on. The main character's were jerks also.

With Gundam Wing, I felt that the characters were lacking in something. It wasn't a bad show, but my problesm with it was that:

A: It rountinely ignored the effect the war had on the civilians

B: Had cookie-cutter characters.

C: Had an overly convoluted plot.

08th MS Team started off with cookie-cutter characters, but like onions, the show started peeling away the surface of their personalities, revealing new layers along the way. By the end of 08th MS Team, you had a good idea that these were unique people with their own feelings and deeper emotions. They weren't zombies, and they doubted themselves frequently. I think that made them easier to get behind than the GW characters, which were more singularly focused.

Also 08th MS Team had the most "mature" main character--not in age, but in personality. He was a young guy, but got more and more believable as a leader with each passing episode. Other than his curious tendency to fall in love with girls from the enemy, I'd say he did a great job leading the 08th Team. :)

As for other shows...I dunno. Gundam 0080 is next in line in continuity, but the original deal with Bandai was that they can air the later Gundams only after they air the whole MSG series. Them not finishing MSG could be breaking the contract.

[Jowy Blight]

Them not finishing MSG could be breaking the contract.

So that means that they might have to finish it anyway. That would be great, to actually see the rest of MSG.:)

[I.R Joey]

Ah I still disagree Larry, I believe Wing was meant to be told on the Macro scale of History, instead of just a bunch of isolated inccidents and stuff. More so looking at a bunch of political changes, rather then the way all the little people are affected.

[Mr. Obsession]

Hey Larry if it's not too much trouble could you go back and edit in some [ spoiler ] [/ spoiler ] marks in to your post about the ending of MSG. For those of us who wanted to know what happens (myself included) this isn't a big deal, but for some others out there it probably is.



Anywho, I do think MSG will be back at a later date (but probably only on the midnight run) as it was pointed out by not finishing airing the series they're braking a contract, they have to air MSG if Bandai is going to let them air the rest of the UC Gundam series', and most importantly they paid money for the rights to air the series.

[batboy2001]

I really wanted to see the episoded Char and Sayla, being that they are my 2 favorite characters.

[batboy2001]

BTW Leaping I know you probaly just got up and are on the boards right now.

[Flying Grayson]

I think they took it off for good now, this sucks!!! But with the Whole world thinking about war and worring about it, They won't show it until the whole thing is over. Any one know where I can buy a MSG DVD?

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by I.R Joey
Ah I still disagree Larry, I believe Wing was meant to be told on the Macro scale of History, instead of just a bunch of isolated inccidents and stuff. More so looking at a bunch of political changes, rather then the way all the little people are affected.

The best Gundam shows cover a much greater scope than GW AND mind the little details as well.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Flying Grayson
I think they took it off for good now, this sucks!!! But with the Whole world thinking about war and worring about it, They won't show it until the whole thing is over. Any one know where I can buy a MSG DVD?

Nah, I think they're just tired of it for now. Like, is DBZ really that good a replacement if you're worried about violence?