Lasso Of Truth, Yellow Defect

[NightwingWC]

I have noticed that in the tv show, wonder womans lasso does not seem to force people to tell the truth, MM has no heat vision, and GL's ring has no problem with yellow.

Now im not saying this is a bad thing.

However, in the Justice League animated comic, wonder womans lasso does force the truth.

Is this a bad thing, or a good thing?


______________________________________

Not clown... Joker.

[M'ral]

I like Diana's lasso without the truth powers. I always thought the whole "lasso that makes you tell the truth" idea was kind of hokey, but then, I'm not a huge Wonder Woman fan to begin with. I don't read the animated JL comic, so I really can't comment on that, but it is kind of strange that the lasso would have its power in the comic and not in the show. I guess somebody forgot which version they were writing.

I also like GL's lack of a yellow weakness for the same reason as the powerless lasso. It seems the JL writers took a second look at the heroes they were using and went out of their way to make them a little more believable, and I for one appreciate their efforts.

As for J'onn's heat vision, his powers have changed so often in his history, I really don't miss it. Heck, at times his powers have almost mirrored Superman's, and why do we need two Supermen in the Justice League? Besides, getting back to the cheesiness factor, the actual name of that particular power is "Martian Vision"...what does that tell you? :rolleyes:

[NightwingWC]

I think that with the yellow defect, they pulled a Kyle Rayner. John has no weakness for yellow, but it appears his ring won't prevent him automatically from being killed.

[M'ral]

Originally posted by NightwingWC
John has no weakness for yellow, but it appears his ring won't prevent him automatically from being killed.

Why would it? :confused: Sorry, I don't know a lot about Green Lantern...I'm mostly a Batman fan myself...are you saying that in some other version, Green Lantern's ring prevents him from being killed? :confused:

[NightwingWC]

yes, before the green lantern core was destroyed by parallax, the rings were (a) defenseless against yellow, but they would (b) prevent the wearer from any injury that would be fatal.

[M'ral]

Huh. Interesting. Thanks for the info!

[Dan Slott]

Okay, here's the deal...
The comic came out around the same time the cartoon premiered. There was nothing in the reference materials given to comic book writers to say that Wonder Woman's lasso did NOT have its truth-telling power. Since EVERY previous version of Wonder Woman (comics/tv movies/tv series/cartoons) had the lasso of truth... how were they to know this wasn't the case? In fact, the writers/creators of the current JL cartoon only revealed that once the cartoons had aired and were in full swing. By this time, the comic book version had at least a years worth of scripts approved.

My take? Until there is a definitive scene in the cartoons where someone says that Wonder Woman's lasso does NOT tell the truth... Who cares?

Personally, I think it's weird NOT to have the lasso's truth-telling power. Both Wonder Woman and her magic lasso were created by William Moulton Marston-- who (and this is NOT a joke) was the man who created the modern day LIE DETECTOR! How's that for a piece of trivia?
In that light, it almost seems disrespectful to deprive Wonder Woman's lasso that defining super-power.

Does taking that power away make this flying, super strong, superhero more "realistic"? An Amazon princess with ties to the Greek gods-- whose costume just happens to look like an American flag? A being who is actually a lump of clay brought to life? A woman who was raised in a Matriarchy... but who still wears high heels? But, heaven forbid, her lasso has magical powers... I mean it's not like the rest of her apparel can do anything "unrealistic," like deflect bullets or anything...
:)
ttyl
Dan

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

For what it's worth, I think Bruce Timm, Rich Fogel, or one of the other producers of Justice League axed "Martian Vision" (cool power, stupid name) in J'onn because they felt it was kind of an odd power to have for a guy who's vulnerable to fire.

They've de-powered J'onn pretty significantly in the show. In the comics, I think it's been established that he rivals Superman for raw strength, and has the added bonus of shapeshifting and telepathy.

-- Ed/Ace

[DisneyBoy]

Does taking that power away make this flying, super strong, superhero more "realistic"? An Amazon princess with ties to the Greek gods-- whose costume just happens to look like an American flag? A being who is actually a lump of clay brought to life? A woman who was raised in a Matriarchy... but who still wears high heels? But, heaven forbid, her lasso has magical powers... I mean it's not like the rest of her apparel can do anything "unrealistic," like deflect bullets or anything...

I'm completely with Dan on this one, and I have been since day one. I really do feel cheated by the fact that Wonder Woman's signature Lasso of Truth has been ommitted for "story purposes". She's one of the Big DC Three - the most well-known and respected Superheroes - and yet she's been dumbed-down for no other reason than because it's convient. I was really pleased to see Dan work in two major elements of her background into JLA#4 - those two being Ares, God of War, as well as her lasso. The truth is that the lasso really doesn't have to be as large of a problem as the writers are making it. Instead of worrying about how it may force a villain to reveal a major plot-point, why not rework the episode so that the team spends more time trying to figure out a way around the problem/villain, rather than figuring out what the "surprise twist" is. The JLA writers haven't had much of a problem using the Lasso's power, and I really can't see why it shouldn't be integrated into the series.

...and now that you bring it up, when do those JL writers plan on addressing Diana's heritage? There is a story behind that uniform, ya know! (Sigh)...I'm tired of fighting a losing battle...

EDIT: I just wanted to add something after reading the previous post - I agree that many of the Justice League members work better with their re-worked personas. I know nothing about his comic book origins, but J'onn is my favorite as the intellectual, silent leader. What bothers me, though, is how much the writing is turned the greatest super heroes in the DC Universe into a bunch of one-dimensional fighting machines. Diana's the arrogant newbie, Flash is the jokester, GL is the drill-sargent, Supes is a bland boy-scout, Batman's the constipated now-it-all and Hawkgirl's....another female warrior. There's a lot more to them than that, but it's been cut out for various reasons.

I don't think all the rest needed to be cut out, but hey...this is just a kid's show, right?

Dan, you and I should start a petition called..."The Plain Truth!" What-ya say? :D

[Harvey Dent]

Originally posted by Ace the Bathound
Howdy,

For what it's worth, I think Bruce Timm, Rich Fogel, or one of the other producers of Justice League axed "Martian Vision" (cool power, stupid name) in J'onn because they felt it was kind of an odd power to have for a guy who's vulnerable to fire.


-- Ed/Ace

That's assuming that "Martian Vision" HAS to equal "Heat Vision". It could easily have been written as a telekenetic blast that J'onn shoots from his eyes, sort of like a cross between Cyclops' "Optic Blast" and a Professor X "Mind Probe".

[DerekPowers]

i always thought that omitting her lasso of truth was a huge cop-out on the creative team's part. its like they couldnt be bothered w/ it, cause it might make the situations too easy for the league to defeat or what not, but imo its just a cop-out.

i mean, the ww comic and JL comic have the lasso of truth, and they dont have any trouble writing with it in there. i think the writers should have been enthusiastic to have the lasso of truth, to make stories compelling enough that it didnt become a problem. i think instead they dropped it cause it seemed like too much of a bother, which is kind of sad.

if you think about it, ww's lasso is like her special power (well her bracelets too). its what differentiates her from being just a weaker female version of superman. but the writers can easily change that in the series if they wanted too. i think ww's origin was one of the best handled on JL, and it would be easy for the gods to grant the lasso that power at any given time. peace.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Dan Slott
Since EVERY previous version of Wonder Woman (comics/tv movies/tv series/cartoons) had the lasso of truth...

Previous comics version had a lasso that forced to victim to obey the person holding the lasso... which *can* be used to force them to tell the truth, but it wasn't limited to just that. It was the 1986 revamp that reduced the lasso's usefulness to merely truth.

:bcup:

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


Originally posted by Harvey Dent
That's assuming that "Martian Vision" HAS to equal "Heat Vision". It could easily have been written as a telekenetic blast that J'onn shoots from his eyes, sort of like a cross between Cyclops' "Optic Blast" and a Professor X "Mind Probe".

True, but that wouldn't deflect the raised voices of comic fans, who would complain that "Martian Vision" was CHANGED instead of removed. As far as I know, the power in the comics was always the equivalent of heat vision.

It's not a power that J'onn even uses all that often in the comics these days, anyway, and I really don't miss it much. I'm surprised it took 'till Joe Kelly's run on JLA and the "Metamorphosis" episode of the TV show to really showcase J'onn's shapeshifting abilities.

-- Ed/Ace

[Condiment King]

I think that with the yellow defect, they pulled a Kyle Rayner. John has no weakness for yellow, but it appears his ring won't prevent him automatically from being killed.
Actually, that would be too much power. Green Lanterns have been killed before. This is because if they get fatally wounded by something yellow, they will die. This makes the yellow impurity even more vital and makes villains like Sinestro and Legion, really lethal.
I agree that GL's yellow impurity is a part of his mythos as is Wonder Woman's lasso of truth. It wouldn't be that hard to integrate it into the stories. Besides, without the impurity, it makes the GLs too powerful, in my eyes.
I agree that the JL characters have been overly stereotyped as well. It does get frusterating when these people only show their real personas rarely.

[DisneyBoy]

i think the writers should have been enthusiastic to have the lasso of truth, to make stories compelling enough that the it didnt become a problem.

That's what I'm talking 'bout!

[andrael]

I am an ignorant person who has read no Green Lantern comics whatsoever; but I had heard about Green Lantern's weakness to the color yellow (he had it in the old cartoons), and it's always bugged me. Could someone please explain to me how exactly that works? How "yellow" does the object have to be? What if it looks sort of brown or orange or greenish in certain lights? What if it's a white object that's grown yellowish with age? What if it's a black object that's just covered in yellow paint? And for that matter, if he took a vat of blue paint and dumped it over the yellow object, would he then be able to use his powers on it?

[Harvey Dent]

Originally posted by Ace the Bathound
Howdy,



True, but that wouldn't deflect the raised voices of comic fans, who would complain that "Martian Vision" was CHANGED instead of removed. As far as I know, the power in the comics was always the equivalent of heat vision.

It's not a power that J'onn even uses all that often in the comics these days, anyway, and I really don't miss it much. I'm surprised it took 'till Joe Kelly's run on JLA and the "Metamorphosis" episode of the TV show to really showcase J'onn's shapeshifting abilities.

-- Ed/Ace

I suppose you're right, although the type of "Martian Vision" J'onn used during an issue of Morrison's JLA run seemed to act more like an Optic Blast. I thought it was rather cool. :)

As for Diana and her Lasso, why not give it some godly powers? It really shouldn't be too hard for the writers to come up with unique ways to showcase the Lasso's abilities. I don't think anyone here is asking for it to make everyone she ropes tell the truth all the time. It could be a contest of wills; sometimes Diana gets the answers, and sometimes she doesn't.

[Condiment King]

I am an ignorant person who has read no Green Lantern comics whatsoever; but I had heard about Green Lantern's weakness to the color yellow (he had it in the old cartoons), and it's always bugged me. Could someone please explain to me how exactly that works? How "yellow" does the object have to be? What if it looks sort of brown or orange or greenish in certain lights? What if it's a white object that's grown yellowish with age? What if it's a black object that's just covered in yellow paint?
In all those instances you mentioned, it would still be yellow, and he'd still have a weakness against it.

And for that matter, if he took a vat of blue paint and dumped it over the yellow object, would he then be able to use his powers on it?
See, that's the trick. Put something not yellow on it, like blue paint as you mentioned, and it wouldn't be yellow anymore. Yes, he would be able to use his powers against it. In Hal Jordan's first encounter as a GL with a supervillain, the yellow Legion, Hal scooped mud up and poured it over Legion. Thus, now he's no longer yellow. His powers worked against him.

[Mynd Hed]

The time has come once again to face my ultimate adversary... the man I fear above and beyond all others... the arch-villain of all arch-villainy, the one man who completely embodies my only weakness... HOMER SIMPSON!!!

Yeah, I'm not exactly crying that they decided to drop that whole yellow weakness thing. (-: I like the Green Lantern and all, but YELLOW? That's just silly.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


Originally posted by Mynd Hed
Yeah, I'm not exactly crying that they decided to drop that whole yellow weakness thing. (-: I like the Green Lantern and all, but YELLOW? That's just silly.

Yeah, a friend of mine used to say Jubilee could kick Hal Jordan's sorry butt seven ways to Sunday because of that ridiculous raincoat she was wearing.

Not even going to get into doppler shifts, and how a GL's ring could turn itself yellow by traveling faster than light (Larry Niven did this in Ganthet's Tale a while ago).


Originally posted by Condiment King
I agree that GL's yellow impurity is a part of his mythos as is Wonder Woman's lasso of truth.

Well, the yellow thing was a part of the Silver Age GL mythos. The original GL (Alan Scott), created shortly after Superman and wearing a cape, had a vulnerability to wood. This was the reference in "Legends," when the "Green Guardsman" tells Hawkgirl that he can't affect anything made of aluminum. I find it easier to buy that weakness because it becomes something more like the undead being vulnerable to silver or "fairy folk" generally disliking silver and cold iron.

Even without the yellow weakness, there's still the 24-hour charge limit to the ring (used in "War World," but nowhere else so far), and the possibility of breaking the GL's concentration through nerve agents or plot gas or something similar.

-- Ed/Ace

[The Detective]

I'm assuming you haven't watched "The Savage Time" becasehis ring does indeed run of of charge in that episode.
AS for WW's lasso, I don't really have an opinion.
THE MARTIAN VISION IS GONE THANK HEAVENS!

[Condiment King]

The time has come once again to face my ultimate adversary... the man I fear above and beyond all others... the arch-villain of all arch-villainy, the one man who completely embodies my only weakness... HOMER SIMPSON!!!
One green bucket of mud over Homer Simpson of Evergreen Terrace, and it'd be curtains for him. :)

Yeah, I'm not exactly crying that they decided to drop that whole yellow weakness thing. (-: I like the Green Lantern and all, but YELLOW? That's just silly.
Its tradition. Like Superman being from Krypton, it was a giant part of the character for years, until the fall of the Corps and Rayner coming along. Besides, like I said before, Green Lantern is invincible without the yellow weakness. It just doesn't make sense to include the 24 hour limit and not include the yellow weakness, both out of date now.
And its not like he's completely vulnerable to it. How many times will there be a yellow villain? Besides, he can always dump something over them.

[Jade_GL]

I really don't get why Diana's lasso was made just that, a simple lasso. Why don't they just get a rancher from Texas to take her spot now, since that's the extent of what the lasso does.

I don't really care either way, but it seems that they are trying to remove all the nuance and interesting quirks from characters, all for the sake of making a product. Diana is barely at all connected to greek myth in this show. It may make it easier to tell a story, but it removes important facets of who Wonder Woman is, what she stands for, what she is supposed to be. Instead of being an ambassador, a diplomat, and a great warrior, she's really no different from anyone else they could have plopped in the show instead, whether that could be Powergirl, Supergirl, or whatever. She is a strong woman, but not much more than that. I think the lack of powers of her lasso just shows that they've decided to take the most simplistic and, in the end, boring aspects of her character and fly with them. She's a female Superman, that's about it.

Anyway, the yellow weakness is not really a big deal for me. The yellow weakness has been removed from the comics for about a decade, so I can't say that I miss it. And, why can't they make it a weakness to wood, like the Golden Age GL had? Why choose that one specific weakness. They have already made it quite clear in other episodes that the ring works with willpower and has to be recharged. I think those weaknesses, or exploitable facts, are just as good as a weakness to yellow. Besides, I think the yellow weakness, while it made for good stories in the past, is a little hokey now. It could work, but I think they should exploit the facct that the ring needs to be recharged more, and the willpower thing too. That could work just as well.

Anyway, Martian Manhunter is still pretty cool in the show, and I don't miss his Martian Vision. I do wish they would use his other powers more, shapeshifting and whatnot. Now he just seems to faint a lot. :D

Ok, I think I said my piece. :D

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


Originally posted by The DarkKnight
I'm assuming you haven't watched "The Savage Time" becasehis ring does indeed run of of charge in that episode.


Uh, yeah, see, I was just...um...TESTING you all to see who the Real Fans were. That's it. Good fan.

(whoops...forgot that one, especially since it's such a critical plot point)


Originally posted by Condiment King
Besides, like I said before, Green Lantern is invincible without the yellow weakness.

Yeah, but if all he needs to do is use the ring to dump a few buckets of paint/mud/whatever on something yellow, then how does the weakness make him any less invincible?

-- Ed/Ace

[The Detective]

I think it was more of a physcological thing. The ring wielder knew that he had a weakness, and so he wouldn't start to feel invincible and god-like.

[Harvey Dent]

From the Green Lantern Corps (http://glcorps.org/):



Yellow Impurity

Despite its vast power, the ring is not without weaknesses. First and foremost is the ring's ineffectiveness against the color yellow. The Guardians claim the weakness is due to a necessary impurity, as a yellow crystal was needed to stabilize the energy admixture in the Central Power Battery. The mix of the Guardians' blue energy with the yellow crystal creates the power of the Green Lanterns.
[GL2 # 223]

Some doubt the Guardians' reasons for the impurity. They may believe the yellow weakness was placed in the ring so a Green Lantern could not become all powerful. It is possible the Guardians chose yellow to stop their servants from piercing through the illusion in the time stream of their origin, created by Dawlakispokpok to protect the Guardians' ancient past.
[GLGANTHET]

Others believe the yellow weakness is a post hypnotic suggestion. They may believe the unbridled power of the ring would drive a mortal insane.

The weakness can indeed be removed by the Guardians, as seen in the story of Green Lantern Yalan Gur of Space Sector 2814. After the yellow weakness was removed, Yalan Gur was corrupted by the virtually unlimited power in his grasp. His interference with the social and technological development of the human race was noticed by the Guardians and actions were taken against the Green Lantern. The Guardians punished Yalan Gur by imposing a new weakness on his ring, a vulnerability to wood.

Yalan Gur was mortally injured by those he sought to repress and, in his death throes, was merged with the power of the Starheart and his power battery. The remains were seen as a green meteor, which hundreds of years later became the power ring and battery of Alan Scott, the Golden Age Green Lantern.
[GL3 # 19, GLCQ # 7]


So, there's some of the reasoning behind the Yellow Weakness, and also why Alan Scott's ring is vulnerable to wood.

[Anarky]

Originally posted by NightwingWC
I have noticed that in the tv show, wonder womans lasso does not seem to force people to tell the truth, MM has no heat vision, and GL's ring has no problem with yellow.

Now im not saying this is a bad thing.

However, in the Justice League animated comic, wonder womans lasso does force the truth.

Is this a bad thing, or a good thing?


______________________________________

Not clown... Joker.

J'onn has heat vision???
Heat vision like the Predator (heat sensory vision) OR
Heat vision like Supes (project eye beams)

[InterKnight]

Projection

[Anarky]

Originally posted by InterKnight
Projection

well, in that case i see why j'onn doesn't have heat vision/projection on JL: it'd render Superman obsolete.

J'onn is stacked w/ powers: super strength, the ability to fly, alter his density, telepathy, and shape-shifting.

[zimbach]

All this stress and guff over a missing deus ex machina rope when nobody mentions the real inconsistency:

When the hell did Wonder Woman learn how to fly?

[Jade_GL]

Originally posted by zimbach
All this stress and guff over a missing deus ex machina rope when nobody mentions the real inconsistency:

When the hell did Wonder Woman learn how to fly?

I assume since they haven't really explained it in the show that it's just one of her many powers, along with super strength and lightning quick reflexes.

However, if they go with current Wonder Woman mythos, she was granted that power, along with all of her other powers, by the gods at the time of her "birth", when the gods breathed life into the clay form that her mother made.

In the show they don't really explain that, do they? I never really thought about it until now. Especially since they show other Amazons, and the others most certainly cannot fly, or at least do not fly when they are shown.

The lasso, though, is only a dues ex machina devise when a lousy writer uses it. In a lot of instances I've seen it used well in comic stories, so why not here? I think it could work out alright, if not abused or used to solve every problem.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Ace the Bathound

Well, the yellow thing was a part of the Silver Age GL mythos. The original GL (Alan Scott), created shortly after Superman and wearing a cape, had a vulnerability to wood.

I'll just add a couple of things here:

(1) The Silver Age GL vulnerability to yellow was, for the writers, a symbolic weakness. Since a GL must be utterly fearless, it was considered ironic that their vulnerability would be the color that symbolizes cowardice.

(2) In his early appearances, the Golden Age GL's ring worked a bit differently than the way we all think of it today. Originally, it gave him power over metal, meaning that he wouldn't be hurt by metal bullets, but you could knock him out with wood *or* anything else that wasn't made of metal. I think careless writers eventually noticed that he kept getting KO-ed by wooden objects, and thus, his ring became able to affect everything except wood, instead of being only able to affect metal.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by zimbach
When the hell did Wonder Woman learn how to fly?

Bah, she's been able to fly since the 50's, if you count "gliding on air currents." Get with the times. :)