"Wolverine: Origin" #1 - 6 Mini-Series Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

So, what does everyone think of the first issue to what will be a historic comic event?

WOLVERINE: ORIGIN

http://marvel.toonzone.net/images/t-wolverineorigin.jpg (http://marvel.toonzone.net/images/wolverineorigin.jpg)

Written by: Paul Jenkins
Art by: Andy Kubert

This romantic period piece defied industry expectations. At long last, all is revealed about the incredible forces that molded Wolverine, the world's most perfect killing machine with a heart as big as the great outdoors.

Thoughts? Opinions? Comments?

[Clayface]

I didn't notice that it came out this week! I went to the comic shop yesterday, but I don't remember seeing it on the shelves. So, I'm gonna stop on the way home today and see if its there. If I find it, I'll let you know what I thought of it once I read it.

[Mr. Eye]

I was going to buy it, but my comic store didn't get any copies of it. Damn Diamond and their screw-ups.

Mr. Eye

[James Harvey]

From what I hear, the book was vastly under-ordered. Retailers were expecting sales of about 140, 000 copies (40 more than X-Men), and so far it is estimated that there is demand for over 200, 000 copies of the book. The crappy news? Marvel's new "no reprint" policy will screw over more than 60, 000 people who will have to wait more than six months for the trade paperback.'

My retailer ordered 100 copies (the first time he's done that since Spawn #1) and he ran out before noon.

[Clayface]

Well, I just called my comic book shop. Looks like it will be no problem getting a copy - they've got over 300 copies in the store right now! Don't know how I missed it yesterday though!

[James Harvey]

Lucky! The retailer is trying to get more copies somehow, but can't seem to with Marvel's "no reorder" policy. He's been calling other comic shops across the country to try and get even five or ten. It seems all the media coverage on this (tv, newspaper, comics, etc...) has caused an overwhelming demand.

[Clayface]

Well, if anyone out there is in desperate need for a copy, and is willing to pay the cost and shipping, I'll be happy to pick up a copy for ya - just let me know by e-mail.

[Clayface]

Ok, I picked it up and read it. Its ok, I guess. Not great, but not bad. Doesn't seem to have a whole lot happening - feels like they're milking the story to make it last the 6 issues. So far, its sort of cliche, but I'll be curious to see how it plays out.

DG - how come you think wolverine is James, and not Dog?

[dustin_baetz]

It doesn't feel historical to me... Must be the computer coloring.

Good story, though. Very profound. Always suspected that Logan was Irish...

And of course he's Dog. Look how he acted around the redhead with the green eyes. Look at him taking the booze from his father. Look at him taking the beating from his father. I'll never call him Dog Logan... But that's as much a name as he ever had, if he even remembers.

[James Harvey]

I think he's James because...well...I just think that'll be the twist thrown in the series. Jenkins says that there will be a twist to this series, and maybe James will maybe get a friendship with Dog, and have that grow enough to be really influenced by Dog". It just seems too obvious that Logan would be Dog. Then again, that could be Jenkin's plan.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
I think he's James becuase...well...I just think that'll be the twist thrown in the series. Jenkins says that there will be a twist to this series, and maybe James will maybe get a friendship with Dog, and have that grow enough to be really influenced by Dog". It just seems too obvious that Logan would be Dog. Then again, that could be Jenkin's plan.

I don't know - I've read a lot of Jenkins stuff from his others series, and he never really surprised me with anything he wrote - it was usually the obvious thing. Hopefully, he'll prove me wrong this time around. What I'm thinking is James is gonna get sicker and sicker, until he dies, just as Wolverine's healing factor kicks in - so wolvie's gonna have al lthis guilt that he's this lowly little worthless boy that has this power, while his sickly friend died, never having the benefit of the same type of power - the whole "why me and not him" idea. This would be really cliche, and I'm hoping that's not where he's going with this, but my gut feeling right now its that that's where we're headed.

[James Harvey]

It was posted at wizardworld.com that the character of James in Origin is indeed Wolverine. I think I speculated that last moth.

Comments? The new issue comes out next week, I believe.

[killercroc]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
It was posted at wizardworld.com that the character of James in Origin is indeed Wolverine. I think I speculated that last momth. Comments? The new issue comes out next week, I believe.

That certainly seems right. I guess that gives us some idea of his age then.

[James Harvey]

Alot of people are upset that they're revealing all this information. Personally, I'm glad! Gives us a stronger character - and a killer story to boot!

[Clayface]

Welp, looks like you were right and I was wrong, DG! Good guessing!

Though I'm curious how they're going to pull this off - it better be good.

[Joe Tully]

I'm with you DG. It's about time they did this. Wolvie's history has been hinted at and changed so much it's almost as convoluted as DC's. ;) About time they stopped playing around with what might be his history and just told us what it is.

[James Harvey]

Man, DC has some seriously messe dup continuity that is likely beyond repair. Then again, if Geoff Jones can fix Hawkman - I wonder what he can do with the DCU...

Anyways, back to Wolvie. I think they should have the mini-series lead up to Weapon X and have it end there. I think that Weapon X is still an important time in his life and should remain untouched. But when it all comes down to it, I just wanted to know his name and age.

[James Harvey]

Origin #2 Man - what a great follow up to last month's issue. Jenkins and Kubert continues to suprise me with a well written and well thought out story. And did I mention the enhanced coloring over the art? Damn - it is to drool for! The ending was amazing. This definatly adds a new level to Wolverine. I am hoping to see ramifications in the current books soon. (As long as Frank Tieri doesn't write it)

Rating: A+

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson

Origin #2 Man - what a great follow up to last month's issue. Jenkins and Kubert continues to suprise me with a well written and well thought out story. And did I mention the enhanced coloring over the art? Damn - it is to drool for! The ending was amazing. This definatly adds a new level to Wolverine. I am hoping to see ramifications in the current books soon. (As loing as Frank Tieri doesn't write it)




Yeah, overall, this was a pretty good issue - definitely keeping my interest. But now I've got moer questions than answers! Why do Logan and Dog both look like Wolverine, while James doesn't? If James/Wolvie discovered he had bone claws at that age, why was it such a big surprise to him to find out they were there after he lost his admantium to Magneto? (I hope they don't answer that one with the old "screwed up/lost memories" schtick they use so much! ) But, I am eagerly awaiting the next issue of thie series - can't wait to see what happens!

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by Clayface

Yeah, overall, this was a pretty good issue - definitely keeping my interest. But now I've got moer questions than answers! Why do Logan and Dog both look like Wolverine, while James doesn't? If James/Wolvie discovered he had bone claws at that age, why was it such a big surprise to him to find out they were there after he lost his admantium to Magneto? (I hope they don't answer that one with the old "screwed up/lost memories" schtick they use so much! ) But, I am eagerly awaiting the next issue of thie series - can't wait to see what happens!


I bet they will. I bet the final issue will end with him being taken into the WEAPON X series and having his memory wiped. I guess he'll start to remember his past life in his own comic in the near future. With his life a blur before WEAPON X, I bet it'll be the way to go. At least this will make all those references to him fighting in WW2 and the Civil War possibly accurate. I'm more curious as to what will now happen to Dog. Will he become Sabretooth?

[James Harvey]

So - what did everyone think of the newest installment of this six issue mini-series? Now - I am a little big confused. Why was James's mother cuddling Logan's dead body? What will happen to Dog?

The best part of the issue? Finding out Wolverine is indeed Canadian - born in Alberta.

Comments?

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
So - what did everyone think of the newest installment of this six issue mini-series? Now - I am a little big confused. Why was James's mother cuddling Logan's dead body?



Because James's mother loved/had an affair with Logan. James is Logan's illigitimate son - thus the grandfather saying that the last of his blood died with his own son - granddad knew that James was actually Logan's son rather than his own son's son (boy that sounds confusing!).

My question is - did James's mother know before that he was Logan's kid, or did she not realize it and/or not get confirmation of it until Wolvie popped his claws for the first time? And what was with the "not again" comment (or something like that)? I'm guessing both granddad and mom have seen someone else pop their claws just like Wolvie did....




What will happen to Dog?



Dog = Sabertooth? I hope not, but it could be...

[James Harvey]

Ack! Head...hurting! So, does this mean that Logan (James's dad) also had the claws? And why I didn't clue into that affair sooner is beyond me. I reread it and it's as clear as day. I think, though, she may not have known until the claws come popping out.

So - anything else I've missed?

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
So, does this mean that Logan (James's dad) also had the claws?



I'm guessing so - that's the only explanation I can think of for the "not again" comment. And for granddad's instant recognition of what was going on - saying that James isn't really of his blood, and kicking him out instead of freaking out about him being a "monster".




So - anything else I've missed?


I don't think so! ;)

[James Harvey]

What the? So if James's dad did have the claws - how did he get them? I must be missing the easy refernece somewhere, but this raises even more questions. I'm sure we'll find out in the coming months.

Overall - this mini-series has been way above my expectations in terms of art and storytelling. I know all the Wolvie fans will be happy to know Wolverine is still Canadian...I know I am...:)

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
What the? So if James's dad did have the claws - how did he get them? I must be missing the easy refernece somewhere, but this raises even more questions. I'm sure we'll find out in the coming months.


I'm guesing its just genetics - Logan was a mutant, with claws being part of his mutation, and he passed that on to his son, James.

[James Harvey]

Ahh....that does make sense. Also explains the shoddy treatment of Logan himself. Now...I wonder what will happen to Dog...

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson
Now...I wonder what will happen to Dog...

I forget - were you a fan of Gargoyles? The whole issue all I could think about was the gargoyle hunters from that series. There's the whole sub-plot in Gargoyles where Demona slashes that kid's face (just like Dog's), and it leads to a whole clan of gargoyle hunters that wear black masks with red slash marks across the face that dedicate their lives to hunting down the Gargoyles.

Doubt they'd go in the same direction in this case! LOL

But for some reason I keep getting this feeling that Dog is Sabertooth. It would explain why Sabertooth has such a thing against Wolverine - he's trying to get back at Wolverine for the death of Logan, and torturing Wolvie just like he (Dog) was totured by Logan. A twisted hatred - hating Wolverine for taking away his father, yet also hating Wolvie for living a pampered life while he was beat so badly by Logan.

Anyone else get the feeling that our leading lady in this story is gonna get killed before the series is over?

[James Harvey]

I have this gut feeling, too, that she will reach her end before the series is up. I think that she may die even before the final issue. She may die at the end of issue #5, which will set up the final issue. She has been a great character and this does explain Logan's thing for Jean Grey.

I'm also thinking that Dog is Sabretooth, but Sabretooth is a blonde and Dog is black haired. Then again - that could be another red herring. If he is Sabretooth, then this does enhance their relationship.

[James Harvey]

Here's a synopsis I pulled from http://www.comicboards.com/xmb

The issue begins with John (James's father) and Thomas Logan both dead after events last issue. After gamely informing us that her previously mentioned dead child was a mutant too, James's mother Elizabeth shoots herself. James flees the house and Rose chases after him. The police inform John the Elder of the events of the night and they question Dog (now sporting three gashes across his face) who blames the whole affair on Rose. Meanwhile James begins to become disassociative and experiences flashes of amnesia.

Rose and John make it back to the Hill where John Sr. denounces James for being a freak of nature, gives them some money, and guarantees free egress from town. This takes up all but the very last few pages of the book which show Rose and James making their way to a declining quarry town on the ringes of civilization (British Columbia) and finding a place to stay. In the last panel of the book, Rose introduces James as Logan.

Hmmm...that quote about James's mother having another mutant baby beforehand is...odd.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Dick Grayson

Hmmm...that quote about James's mother having another mutant baby beforehand is...odd.

Yeah, I don't really recall anything about them talkign about her previous child - I'll have to go back and re-reaed the other issues.

[Samhaine]

Originally posted by Clayface


Yeah, I don't really recall anything about them talkign about her previous child - I'll have to go back and re-reaed the other issues.
I'm pretty sure the grandfather mentioned another child in the first issue.

Also, a tip to the affair was that James' mother had slash marks on her last issue.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by bloodone

Also, a tip to the affair was that James' mother had slash marks on her last issue.

Oh yeah! I forgot about that! Good catch!

[James Harvey]

So if Logan had the claws, then how'd he get those? I guess he's obviously a mutant then...

Edit: Added these two links, which are Talkback thread son Origin #1 and #2

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6308

http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9582

Just added them for fun.

[The Clown Prince]

So what did everyone think of the loooooong over due final issue of Origin? Me? While I liked this mini-series, I hated out it ended. Kind of a waste actually. All we see is Smitty chasing after Logan in the snow after Rose dies. I'm mad too that Cookie didn't bite it, especially seeing him stealing Rose's stuff at the end and burning her diary. That guy really deserved something worse done to him. I guess after reading all 6 issues, it was apparent that Paul Jenkins and Marvel soley wanted to concentrate on the very, very begining of young Logan's life and that's it. I'm not familar with other Logan stories like the Weapon X one for example so I'm not sure what other parts of his life have been revealed.

So was "Dog" supposed to be Sabretooth? Looking at his size it sure looks like it. Or was Sabretooth's connection to Wolverine revealed already. They both seem to have the same animalistic rage in them, and both have the healing factor. How did that happen?

Since we all got to read and see the begining of Logan's life, does Logan in the Marvel Universe know this now? Or will they make up a story to find the answers we just read? That part was always confusing to me.

The Clown Prince

[whitmore_sean]

There's nothing to suggest that Logan knows anything more about his origins now than he always did. I'm pretty sure Paul Jenkins and Joe Quesada said this was just for the audience's benefit, not his.

However, in the last issue of NEW X-MEN, Cassandra Nova called Logan "James". If she was able to read that in his mind, than it stands to reason that Logan always knew at least this much.


SEAN

[Clayface]

I was somewhat disappointed with this one too. Sort of an empty ending to the whole series, that didn't really reveal anything, or leave me feeling very satisfied.

[halinar]

I liked the most of the story but too many parts of it seemed forced from the movie. The cage match and the claws through the upper right shoulders were all too familiar. But I did like how they didn't answer everything. It would have been more forced to shove too much in at once. Of course there will be more origin series, at least until they kill it.

[2Divine]

Was a good ending? Yes, I'd say it was. It wrapped up the story. When you keep in mind that the story's intention was to tell Wolverine's origin, it delivered everything it promised.

Was it a satisfying ending? No, not really. It left me wanting more. Which is good for Marvel's business should they decide to do an Origin sequel series. And yes, it left several questions unanswered.

I, too, had to wonder if maybe Dog wasn't somehow related to Sabretooth. He did look an awful lot like good ol' Mister Creed... However, seeing as how Dog has three big, nasty scars etched into his face and Sabretooth does not, I would tend to think that's an indication they are not actually one and the same. Maybe Dog is Sabretooth's father. Who knows?

[Cogliostro]

I think they tried to wrap it up quickly after #3. I thought it was a alright ending to the mini-series but not the best. I really think Dog is Sabertooth. Killing his dog, father, ruining his life, causing him to kill his love of his life is a great reason to have such a big rival...

[halinar]

I'm still betting Dog turns out to be Sabertooth. The scars could be taken care of when his mutant powers kick in later on of if the weapon X program kick starts them.

[JL Man]

Originally posted by Cogliostro
Killing his dog, father, ruining his life, causing him to kill his love of his life is a great reason to have such a big rival...

Yeah, but Wolvie doesn't remember that so that wouldn't cause them to be rivals.

[mookie75]

Well, while I have no logical reason for making this assertion...I don't think Dog is Sabretooth. Actually, I'm just hoping that he isn't...I think they've extended Logan and Creed's history back far enough already. I think bringing it all the way back to the first emergence of Logan's "powers" is carrying it a little too far. Next thing we know they'll be pulling a "Xavier/Cassandra Nova thing" and saying that Wolvie and Sabes were actually twins that tried to kill each other in the womb. :p

*For those who don't understand the reference....pick up your back issues of New X-Men! :D

[Cogliostro]

Alittle of topic but I thought that alot of Origin fans would want to hear about this: At the end of Wizard they tell about what is in the next issue and here is one thing they said: What is 'The Truth'? We divulge all the info on a brand-new, top secret mini-series project coming from Marvel called The Truth We can't tell you anything about it here, but suffice to say, it's being compared to Origin and will radically change everything you know about one of Marvel's biggest icons.

Who do you think it is? Maybe Sabertooth, probably not but I can't wait to read about it...

[The Clown Prince]

Wow! Obviously it's gonna be one of Marvel's heavy hitters. But who will it be? Spider-Man's origin has been done to death, There is no one really in any of the X-books that would warrant such attention other than Wolverine, but he just got his story told. Possibly The Hulk, Captain America, and Ironman possibly. Thor? I don't think so. Of course now that I look at Cogliostro's post again, it doesn't say anything about an origin. So maybe it has to do with Spider-Man. This sounds like it could be good or bad depending on how you look at it.

The Clown Prince

[Cogliostro]

Someone has recently told me that it has been rumored it will be about Captain America...

[The Chuck-Man]

I read only a couple of issues & quite frankly I wasn't all that impressed. Some stuff was interesting, but basically it felt like filler IMO. But to any who read it, how did the ENTIRE series wind up being? Good, great, bad, terrible, etc?

[Clayface]

Overall, I'd say it was good. Not great, but good. Most of the series was pretty interesting to me, but the ending was sort of unsatisfying - they didn't really resolve much, and they left a lot of things hanging, presumably for a sequel miniseries.

[kid_flash]

Really, I felt the first five issues were just amazing. I loved it. Issue 6 left a LOT to be desired, and didn't feel like a conclusion at all, setting itself up for a sequel. Which is too bad, because ORIGIN standing alone could've been a truly beautiful story. And I suppose it was, but you see my point? Anyway, I'd say it's worth it to grab the hardcover.

[The Chuck-Man]

Anyway, I'd say it's worth it to grab the hardcover.


Wait a sec, Marvel's only releasing it in a HC, not a SC?

[James Harvey]

A softcover will come eventually, but not for at least six moths...or until ORIGIN 2 comes out. The last issue definatly is set up for a sequel, and it could have worked as a six issue mini-series and that's it. No doubt Jemas got in the way and decided to leave the ending wide open. I do recommend picking up the hardcover if you can spare the $25 - 30.

[Matt Hazuda]

If you go over to Marvel's (http://www.marvel.com) website, you can read all of Origin for free in their dotcomics section. You just need to register at their site, which is also free, so enjoy.

Also try to read all of Origin before you read Wolverine #176 so you get what's going on in that issue. It's not required reading, but it helps you understand what's going on better.

[Jin Kazama]

I'm probably the last guy in the world to pick up a Wolverine comic, but I loved this mini-series.

The story was very well done. Not to mention, it matched the time perfectly. It wasn't just some story with the backdrop of a certain era, but everything had to do with it, from Wolverine working in the mine to the hell that his girl (her name escapes me) had to endure by the men.

Not to mention I fell in love with the art. Actually have the poster of the cover to issue 3 on my wall. It's so gritty that it matches the theme of the comic, but it's so detailed and unique. That's what initially got me to get issue 1, and the overally product got me to sign up for the rest.

[Cogliostro]

The girl's name was Rose, I believe thats who your talking about.

I have to say I both liked it and disliked it. The first three issues were amazing I really enjoyed them, things were explained and hinted at but then after that it seemed to go nowhere important and giving us more questions adding to the already many unanswered. My favorite issue had to be #1 it was just wonderful the cover, the story, the art all came together perfectly. Origin didn't answer a lot of things and Marvel knows it and said that there most likely will be a Origin 2 to reveal more of the mystery known as Wolverine, Logan, James Howlett...

[jgully]

it's the doggs character that had me confused is he soppopsed to be
sabrethooth or not seemed that way to me

[kid_flash]

It was really good until I got to the end of issue six and realized there was no end.

[James Harvey]

With X-Men Origins: Wolverine just around the corner, Marvel Comics has recently released a host of new Wolverine collections, including a new collection for the classic Wolverine: Origin storyline!

WOLVERINE: ORIGIN

http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0309/WOLVORIGIN_TPB_sm.jpg (http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0309/WOLVORIGIN_TPB.jpg)

WRITER: Bill Jemas, Paul Jenkins, Joe Quesada
PENCILS: Andy Kubert

THE STORY: Marvel's best-kept mutant mystery revealed! Before the X-Men, before Weapon X, Wolverine's struggle with his subconscious savagery first flourished in family tragedy. Some of Marvel's most acclaimed creators unite to tell the tale that shaped mutantdom's mightiest misfit. Collecting Origin #1 - 6.

Comments?