What restoration does...

[Jack]

See what the pre-48 cartoons would look like if restored at Cartoon Research, there are screen captures from Falling Hare. lt looks really amazing: http://www.cartoonresearch.com/warner.html


Jack:D

[Patrick McCart]

If WB restored these cartoons, they could easily pass them off as new cartoons.

My bad. The Falling Hare pics confused me...I've handled Eastman before...so I guess the broadcast version used a blue filter to take out the over-redness.

Still...those restoration pics are very powerful in showing why restoration is so important. What would be the best way to get WB to fund a massive restoration of these cartoons?

[Argus Sventon]

I almost gasped, when I saw those frames from Falling Hare. Guys, someone needs to wake up at Warner Bros. and realize this. Here we have felt duped into thinking the "Dubbed Versions" were restored, and now we know they can be really restored.

[Pietro]

I never saw "Falling Hare" in such an excellent print!

[lislebartman]

I guess I'm not the only one completely blown away by the restoration comparisons!! I saw them yesterday and I can't believe what a difference is made!!

"Dubbed" versions indeed!!!:mad:

[Jerry Beck]

Hi guys!

I want to thank Jack for posting the link to my website so you could see those frame grabs from FALLING HARE. In the future, please do as Jack did and post a link instead of copying my images and reprinting them on this board.
The reason I ask this is because, as in the case of FALLING HARE, I am sneaking these images on-line.
This test restoration was done by people at WB under the noses of some of the higher ups. These people could lose their jobs if it were found out they spent company money on this. This test was done two years ago. It took me all this time to get my hands on it. So, play it cool. I posted these images to raise your consciousness as to what could be.
Can you imagine a BOOK REVIEW or a BASEBALL BUGS restored, in vibrant color, looking as brand new and sharp as a modern WB or CN production, with all its original titles intact. That's what could happen if Warners would wake up.

In response to another post on this thread. Technicolor doesn't fade. (It might deteriorate, but so far in 70 years, Tech negs and prints haven't faded - every other color process does). To clarify, the Tech negs exist. The master Turner material (on the pre-48s) are Technicolor PRINTS (they don't fade). So why does FALLING HARE, and others, look so bad? Because Cartoon Network's copy is off an Eastman Color print made from a dupe negative. Their dupe neg and prints are Eastman - and those have faded. On top of that, making a dupe neg (and prints) creates grain and other defects in the film image.

I'm advocating Warner Bros. create a new digital master tape, taken from the original Technicolor negatives. That will give us the BEST quality of these films. Warners already does this with the post-1948 cartoons (that's why they look and sound so good). Warners does this with classic movies like THE WIZARD OF OZ and everything they've released on DVD. Columbia did this with their FOX & CROW and Color Rhapsodies for that "TOTALLY TOONED IN" program I worked on.
It's expensive, but the results are outstanding, as you can see.

I hope this letter helps you understand more about the restoration that needs to be done. Those Turner "dubbed" versions are just fresh transfers off the 35mm Tech prints. Many of those Tech prints still have the AAP logo attached (you notice the AAP logo is Eastman print and is fading red). The Turner prints are the Blue Ribbon reissues. The original Tech negs have the original titles (hence SCARDY CAT and FOGHORN LEGHORN). The "dubbed" versions (which Turner screwed up further by putting those wrong end titles on) are a quick fix, a good start - but its a waste of money. The original neg where we want our cartoons from.

Cartoon Network has no control over these original negs - its up to Warner Bros.

[hiphats]

Originally posted by Jerry Beck
Hi guys!

I want to thank Jack for posting the link to my website so you could see those frame grabs from FALLING HARE. In the future, please do as Jack did and post a link instead of copying my images and reprinting them on this board.
The reason I ask this is because, as in the case of FALLING HARE, I am sneaking these images on-line.
This test restoration was done by people at WB under the noses of some of the higher ups. These people could lose their jobs if it were found out they spent company money on this. This test was done two years ago. It took me all this time to get my hands on it. So, play it cool. I posted these images to raise your consciousness as to what could be.
Can you imagine a BOOK REVIEW or a BASEBALL BUGS restored, in vibrant color, looking as brand new and sharp as a modern WB or CN production, with all its original titles intact. That's what could happen if Warners would wake up.

In response to another post on this thread. Technicolor doesn't fade. (It might deteriorate, but so far in 70 years, Tech negs and prints haven't faded - every other color process does). To clarify, the Tech negs exist. The master Turner material (on the pre-48s) are Technicolor PRINTS (they don't fade). So why does FALLING HARE, and others, look so bad? Because Cartoon Network's copy is off an Eastman Color print made from a dupe negative. Their dupe neg and prints are Eastman - and those have faded. On top of that, making a dupe neg (and prints) creates grain and other defects in the film image.

I'm advocating Warner Bros. create a new digital master tape, taken from the original Technicolor negatives. That will give us the BEST quality of these films. Warners already does this with the post-1948 cartoons (that's why they look and sound so good). Warners does this with classic movies like THE WIZARD OF OZ and everything they've released on DVD. Columbia did this with their FOX & CROW and Color Rhapsodies for that "TOTALLY TOONED IN" program I worked on.
It's expensive, but the results are outstanding, as you can see.

I hope this letter helps you understand more about the restoration that needs to be done. Those Turner "dubbed" versions are just fresh transfers off the 35mm Tech prints. Many of those Tech prints still have the AAP logo attached (you notice the AAP logo is Eastman print and is fading red). The Turner prints are the Blue Ribbon reissues. The original Tech negs have the original titles (hence SCARDY CAT and FOGHORN LEGHORN). The "dubbed" versions (which Turner screwed up further by putting those wrong end titles on) are a quick fix, a good start - but its a waste of money. The original neg where we want our cartoons from.

Cartoon Network has no control over these original negs - its up to Warner Bros.

Jerry Beck has made an excellent point about the possible restoration.

I'd like to add to his statement, if I may. Some time back, PBS ran a documentary about the animation work of Chuck Jones, and the clips of the shorts (especially the legendary pre-48 Turner-owned titles) looked as if they were just released yesterday! They don't look like they were made in the '40s at all! These were crisp, colorful prints restored to their full glory.

The handful of pre-48 shorts that have been restored with their original titles that's out now on Columbia House was a landmark first step in the right direction.

I also was lucky to see a pristine print of the uncut "A (not THE) Wild Hare" recently (from the old MGM/UA Looney Tunes LaserDisc box set), and the vibrant color is miles ahead of the Blue Ribbon reissues (even the so-called restored print that ran years ago on AMC [yes, AMC actually ran a WB Blue Ribbon w/o credits cartoon some years back on its first Film Preservation Festival] cannot hold a candle to the print I saw).

I too am sick and tired of the "dubbed" (i.e. altered) versions on CN, and I'd rather see these classic 'toons in their original, unaltered form.

I believe the time to restore ALL the WB shorts is NOW, otherwise they will be forever lost and turn to dust.

[Larry T]

Looking at the images on Jerry's site just made it seem more imperative to PLEASE RESTORE THESE ORIGINALS BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!! After all, most of these films are 40+ years old and they will not last forever!! The thinking at the time they were produced was not accounting for forseeability of future archiving, but NOW we have the technology..... And once they're gone.....

I never thought "Falling Hare" would ever look so good. I don't think I've ever seen it in such vibrant colour even straight off a technicolour print. Beside the other images, the old print looks almost like a black and white print!!!

Man, would I like to see "Sunday Go To Meetin' Time" with all its original colourful glory- those brownish prints (which incidently are the only ones available) are almost worth not watching at all!! I'm sure there are more which, if anything, for sheer historical sake, could stand to be made into final "keepers"...

PLEASE, WB, HEED OUR CALLS!!

[laugh4me]

Like the rest of you who have chimed in, I'm blown away by the thought of "what might be".

The obvious next question is "What can we do to make this happen?"

Jerry - is there anything you can suggest that we can do that could help you encourage WB to restore these cartoons?

[J Lee]

As I've said for a while now, Warner's has the perfect chance coming up to do a complete restoration, because of the impending government-mandated conversion to high-deifinition television.

All of the current tapes designed for analog TV will have to be remastered to work properly on the 1,050-line HDTV sets that, as of now, are supposed to become manditory in the next six years. Assuming CN doesn't want to just remaster its "Cartoon Cartoons" and will re-do everything in its library, there's no excuse not to use the original masters instead of the Eastmancolor prints

[Argus Sventon]

WB cartoons and other cartoons aren't the only things that need redone. Live action television shows need restoration too. I just saw a portion of Gunsmoke on TV Land, and it had some fading too.

[Rob]

It's amusing (and amazing) to see the pre '48 clips in some of the post '48 cheater cartoons. They look great, just like the footage that surrounds them.

It would be grand to see WB start to work on this monumental project soon. Boy, I'd love to be a part of it...

[JaGSQ]

Speaking of restoration, I once found frames from Coal Black on a website ( I think it was the site dedicated to animating genius Rob Scribner) that maked Coal Black look so new that she looked like a frame from an Animaniacs episode. Very pristine, considering the degraded copies I've seen. And did anyone else notice the quality of Bugs Bunny Nips The Nips in Goopy Geer's file? I'm guessing he got it from the laserdisc of TGAOLT because it looks like it was made today. But then again, most of the prints I've seen of it are the same as the mpg floating around online.

[Crazy Tom]

Originally posted by Jerry Beck
Can you imagine a BOOK REVIEW or a BASEBALL BUGS restored, in vibrant color, looking as brand new and sharp as a modern WB or CN production, with all its original titles intact. That's what could happen if Warners would wake up.

That would be a Godsend to all of us.

The boss of WB should heed this: "That's what the people said, you heard what they said--they said that...that's what they said!" Can you imagine how green the Statue Of Liberty (nagging) would be?

AMC has annual film preservation specials...why not cartoons? With, by the way, the correct endings, CN???

[William Padron]

It is bad enough to see the current "dubbed version" of "Falling Hare" with its dirty green dishwater tint, but it also worse to now see "Gorilla My Dreams" with that annoying hash mark found in the last scene. Sometimes, I can get uncomfortable watching an improperly done "dubbed version" like those two cartoons.

However, Turner did restore the opening titles to "Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt" and "Hop Look and Listen", but then albeit slapped again with those darn *new* ending cards. Yes, some of the new copies come from prints that still had the A.A.P. logo attached, and if you listen at the beginning of "One Meat Brawl" and "Of Fox And Hounds", you can hear the musical bridge segueway into the main intro before the W-B shield zooms in.

I do hope too that Warner Bros. does the right thing in one day totally revamping digitally and restoring its pre-1948 library to a very colorful and glorious state of condition. I wish it can happen...I am just waiting for their excuse as to why Warners is stalling (pardon the pun here) in beginning this very vital project.

[Jack]

They could really profit from restoring the cartoons too, if they advertised side by side comarisons of the restored and unrestored versions, and said there was stuff you had never seen before (things edited from reissues, title cards, ect). They would be like new cartoons.

When they finish with that, they should restore some of the post 48 cartoons, particularly those from the late 40s and early 50s since some of those still have reissue titles and that strange safety print deterioration that makes the picture look brown.

If they ever released a DVD of restored prints, they could include a free Blue Ribbon reissue card limited edition or sericel to sort of celebrate the restoration of BR reissues... I wouldn't mind CN running a marathon of restored cartoon, or theater running restored prints too, if WB ever gets around to restoring the films...



Jack:D

[PorkyandDaffy]

Those restored pics are REALLY good - beats the pants off a' those "dubbed" versions for sure! I'd love to see the actual cartoon looking like that.

[Garrett]

*DROOL* Wow. I'll be honest: When I first discovered the older WB shorts on TNT in the early 1990s (Vermont never had a station that aired the pre-1948 stuff), two things weirded me out, the character design and the turdy colors. If WB re-mastered the pre-1948 stuff, I think that a lot of the older stuff would fittingly join their younger cousins in popularity and notariety-"Falling Hare" being one prime example. I wish any restoration efforts the best of luck.

Garrett

[Vdubdavid]

The question is: do we notify Warner's and tell them about this and the benefits of restoring the rest of the cartoons and risk getting the people who did the test fired, or do we keep our mouthes shut? I'm all for doing the first. Jerry Beck, if you read this, could you tell me and the rest of us who the big kahuna is at WB and how we can get in touch with him/her? Owner, President, whatever, it doesn't matter. Maybe telling them we now know the truth about "dubbed versions" (and that they lied to us about them being "restored") and threaten to take our business elsewhere would work, but I doubt it.

[Jerry Beck]

While I have no problem with you writing to Warner Bros., I must ask that you do not mention me, my website, and especially those FALLING HARE images. You'll only get me and the guys who restored that film in big trouble, and set back the cause. I'm taking a big risk by posting those and by writing here.

The question is, as always, who to write to. Warner Bros. won't restore them unless there is a financial benefit. While "we" all know they'd make millions if they restored and released them to DVD, they just don't understand that (and frankly don't care). I'm not going to give out a name - but if you write to the President of Warner Home Video (address is on any Warner Home Video product) that would be a good start.

If you do write (and snail-mail letters will be effective), be polite and concise. Don't write a lengthy letter. Play dumb! Ask why there are no Looney Tunes on DVD, and why the ones made before 1950 look so shoddy. Don't suggest "Toonheads"-like compilations of themed packaging - That'll turn them off and prove you are a geek (like me). They hate us! They want to appeal to "Mr. Normal Person, Mom and Kid". Simply request a complete BUGS BUNNY set or a BEST-OF. Don't send lists of programming choices.

If enough "normal" people wrote in requesting restored Looney Tunes on DVD, perhaps they will do something about it. Remember, it only took one letter from an Asian American to withdraw BUGS BUNNY NIPS THE NIPS from laser disc & tape.

[Brandon Pierce]

We also should ask them to put ALL the Bugs cartoons on regular rotation. Some like All This Rabbit Stew and Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips, I don't think we would see them regularlly anytime soon...

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Whoa.
These things are SPECTACULAR! Kudos to Jerry for doing these up....the pic of Roadrunner and Wile E.'s heads in the Looney Tunes loops looks like it was just made yesterday!

Yeah, I remember seeing some old shorts on C.Network as well as the rest and the look was...well....cruddy. Faded, these things actually made me want to turn to another channel (no kidding). But these prove you can restore the magic. I will write up a letter, and tell WB how I feel.

Keep up the good work, Jerry-I have faith that we can do this! I do not want these toons lost to history either...

[Jack]

the pic of Roadrunner and Wile E.'s heads in the Looney Tunes loops looks like it was just made yesterday! Those were from a new cartoon made a few years ago called Little Go Beep, they aren't restored (so I guess compared to what else is on that page, it was made yesterday:D )

The pre 48 cartoons really are in sorry shape, and it's sad since it does turn people off towards them. Most people are attracted to the bright colors of the post 1948 cartoons, even though the early ones could be just as bright if WB restored them. I was watching "A Tale of Two Kitties" this morning, and all the while I thought: This would really look great if it were restored.

WB needs to realize that those cartoons are their most beloved films. I doubt the average person could describe ten or so of their favorite live action WB films from the 1930s-1960s, but they could describe many of their favorite cartoons. I keep seeing people ask "What is the name of _______ cartoon? I know _________ who loved that one and I'd live to give it to them on VHS or DVD for their birthday/etc"


Jack:D

[happyheathen]

Even though I'm not a cricket, I'll chirp in anyway...

Does anyone know why the broadcast versions (assuming that Jerry's snaps do, indeed, represent what is aired) are so poor, when the laser discs' versions are so much better?

I checked 'Falling Hare' - the colors are there, quite nice.

I guess that WB/MGM saw no profit in creating new broadcast tapes from the sources of the LD's...

(BTW - I doubt if more that 3 people who read this have ever seen real, live, broadcast tape equipment - it IS impressive.)

[Vdubdavid]

Now I know everyone's gonna see the cobwebs on these posts, but I gotta ask: Jerry, why did you take those images off your sight? Was it to protect you and your comrades who did that groundbreaking test (that's totally understandable), or did you get a reprimand from your superiors?

[Vdubdavid]

The only reason I'm responding again is to get this thread back on the top of the thread pile. I want our ally Jerry Beck to see and possibly answer my question.

[Jack]

I wonder why he pulled the pictures as well. He also took the UPA and Lantz pages down :(


Jack :bosko:

[Jerry Beck]

I was asked to pull those images from F.H. - I cannot say anymore lest I risk my involvement with future projects with that company. Please understand.

I pulled off my UPA & LANTZ title pages temporarily - I was running out of webspace when I pulled them a few weeks ago, but now that I have more room, I'll bring them back soon - with new images.

I occasionally add things to my ORIGINAL TITLES pages without notice - so its worth checking in on those pages once in a while - I just added two images to my PARAMOUNT page: rare opening titles to the KARTUNE series and the theatrical COMIC KINGS cartoons.

[Crazy Tom]

Originally posted by Jerry Beck
I was asked to pull those images from F.H. - I cannot say anymore lest I risk my involvement with future projects with that company. Please understand.

Jerry, I was very fortunate to view those images a while ago...they were totally outstanding. All I can say is people are so jumpy when it comes to protecting "territory"...the people who told you to yank the images are probably the same ones who have declared war on Christmas by saying we can't have this, we have to be religion-neutral, etc.

And we wonder if we have learned anything after Sept. 11th.

From my wife and I to you and yours, have a Merry Christmas...or whatever holiday you celebrate.

[Matthew Hunter]

I'm sorry to hear that, those images were amazing...I'm kicking myself for not saving them to file. What I wanna know is, (and I'm sure you can't reveal it) why in the world they don't want images like that posted? I think it'd revive some interest in the older films, and I hope they DO restore them correctly in my lifetime, I'm sick of the "Dubbed" versions with the wrong end titles.
-Matthew

[Thad Komorowski]

Yeah those "Falling Hare" pictures looked like the cartoon was made a week ago. I was able to save them onto my hard drive, but I won't be posting them.


-Thad