Similarities between Spider-man and Batman ,Coincidence or Ripp off? [Archive]

Marc

12-28-2002, 08:46 PM

First of all, if you look hard enough, you can find similarities between any two characters. Sure there are similarities between Spidey and Bats/Supes, but most are purely coincidence. Some were intentional, like Peter Parker originally needing eyeglasses, but that was soon dropped by Lee & Ditko. You have to understand that these companies were, and still are in direct competition with one another. DC has “borrowed” just as many ideas from Marvel as Marvel has from DC. As for the newspaper job, Peter Parker no longer works for the Daily Bugle, but when he was employed there his job was not even closely related to Clark Kent’s at the Daily Planet.

As for your list:
Joker - Green Goblin: Ok, I see the “green” connection, and the insanity, but that’s about it.
Catwoman - Black Cat : I’ll grant you this one. These two are a little too close for comfort. But last time I checked, Selena didn’t have superpowers.
Killer Croc - The Lizard: They’re both reptilian, but that’s it. BTW, the Lizard first appeared almost 20 years before Killer Croc.
Batgirl - Spider-woman: Again, explain this connection. I'm pretty sure Spider-woman has been written out of the Marvel Universe, but I could be wrong.
Copperhead - Scorpion: One’s a snake, the other's an arachnid. Also, the Scorpion was introduced about 3 years before Copperhead.

No offense, but this thread stinks of another DC versus Marvel topic, and we don’t need any of that.

- Cap

John6777

12-28-2002, 09:29 PM

Black Cat has superpowers??? what superpowerS???

Also A New Spider-Woman came around the same time the new Batgirl came around. But she disappeared.

Storm

12-28-2002, 10:04 PM

Spider-Woman is not even a sidekick or partner of Spider-Man in any shape or form. She's just has the same name. Actually there were three Spider-Woman. The first one that is own out of the Marvel Universe, then the current one who is an Avengers member, and another one who was Spider-Woman for a breif time. So basically Batgirl and Spider-Woman are not rip-offs of eachother. That's like saying every heroine with a "Girl" or "Woman" at the end up their code name is a rip-off of Batgirl. For Superman and Spidey. Spider-Man is an photographer, Superman is a reporter. How can they be connected??? The only thing that is a little bit of the same is Black Cat and Catwoman. C'mon not even Spidey's rogues and Batman's rogues are the same. Spidey's rogues have completely different origins than Batman's foes.

LadyM

12-28-2002, 10:09 PM

Nah, I don't think he's a rip-off of Bats. Coincidence. :)

~LM~

kid_flash

12-28-2002, 10:41 PM

There are VERY few similarities between Batman and Spider-Man (besides both being human, I can't think of anything off the top of my head). If you wanna talk about similarities between the Joker and the Green Goblin, well yeah, but that's not what we're talking about.

tony

12-28-2002, 11:30 PM

Black Cat has the Super Soilder Serum in her

Dee

12-29-2002, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by CaptainInfinity
First of all, if you look hard enough, you can find similarities between any two characters. Sure there are similarities between Spidey and Bats/Supes, but most are purely coincidence. Some were intentional, like Peter Parker originally needing eyeglasses, but that was soon dropped by Lee & Ditko. You have to understand that these companies were, and still are in direct competition with one another. DC has “borrowed” just as many ideas from Marvel as Marvel has from DC. As for the newspaper job, Peter Parker no longer works for the Daily Bugle, but when he was employed there his job was not even closely related to Clark Kent’s at the Daily Planet.

As for your list:
Joker - Green Goblin: Ok, I see the “green” connection, and the insanity, but that’s about it.
Catwoman - Black Cat : I’ll grant you this one. These two are a little too close for comfort. But last time I checked, Selena didn’t have superpowers.
Killer Croc - The Lizard: They’re both reptilian, but that’s it. BTW, the Lizard first appeared almost 20 years before Killer Croc.
Batgirl - Spider-woman: Again, explain this connection. I'm pretty sure Spider-woman has been written out of the Marvel Universe, but I could be wrong.
Copperhead - Scorpion: One’s a snake, the other's an arachnid. Also, the Scorpion was introduced about 3 years before Copperhead.

No offense, but this thread stinks of another DC versus Marvel topic, and we don’t need any of that.

- Cap

I agree. This is getting repetative

JTurner954

12-29-2002, 01:08 AM

When I first saw the Spiderman movie, there were two things I considered a ripoff of "Batman" that bothered me:

1. The parade scene with the big balloons and a character taking pictures.

2. Jonah going through Peter's pictures like Joker going through pictures in Batman.

Then someone mentioned the end scenes both taking place at a church but I don't see that as ripoff since they were too different.

Anyway, I ended up seeing the movie again and those similarities mentioned above didn't bother me since they were used in different contents. The same is more than likely the same with the comics. Similarities are expected (losing relatives or another loved one the cause of the heroism, accidents causing powers and villains) but it's how they contrast that makes the characters interesting and enjoyable to watch.

slackermonkey

12-29-2002, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by tony
Black Cat has the Super Soilder Serum in her

Only the cartoon version does.

In the comics, she started off as a gymnast and martial artist in peak condition, and was a master at rigging stunts to make it seem to her opponents that she could cause others bad luck.

When she and Spidey became partners, he was reluctant to have her around because of her lack of powers. So she made a bargain with the Kingpin's scientists to get superpowers and came back with the proportionate strength, speed, agility, and senses of a cat, and had the abilities to change her fingertips and tips of her toes into powerful claws, and affect probability (i.e. inflict bad luck onto others for a few moments). But her powers eventually went haywire (long story), so Spidey had Dr. Strange remove them.

These days, she's back to a mere gymnast/martial artist/class-A athlete. But rumor has it that after Kevin Smith's done with her on the current mini-series, she'll rediscover her bad luck powers.

Comic Book Boy

12-29-2002, 01:39 AM

The Xenos

12-29-2002, 01:45 AM

Just a couple of comments.

I have considered the covers of Detective Comics 27 (1st Batman) and Amazing Fantasy 15 (1st Spidey) to be similar. Then again I'm guessing that those poses weren't too orignal and were common in comics.

One simialrity I've thought of and I'd like to point out are their creators. Many argue that Jack Kirby deserves more credit then he got for Spider-man and Stan Lee got too much. I'm not sure how true it is. I am certain that Bill Finger never got enough credit for Batman and Bob Kane (God rest him) got too much credit and glory for it. There's a whole story behind it too. Some may say Kirby deserved more priase for Spider-man and a lot of Marvel, but he wasn't as shafted as Bill Finger was.

I too have considered Goblin and Joker simialr. Then again the choatic madman villian is practially an archetype to the hero standing for law and order.

The only thing about the Spider-man movie that made me think of Batman was the bridge scene where the Goblin made Spider-man make a choice. It reminded me of Batman Forever. Though I think it was much better here. Heck, it made me regret seeing Batman Forever and making me think of it... but I'll leave my Schumacher bashing for another day.

-Xenos

Reed Richards

12-29-2002, 02:09 AM

i wonder which spiderwoman he refers to?

Jessica Drew? Julia Carpenter?

funny, none of them have anything to do with Spidey himself-- other than Julia's rip-off of his black costume look.

Lizard predated KC by a LONG time

Copperhead-Scorpion? I don't recall Copperhead being created by the EIC of a newspaper that hated Batman.....

Green Goblin-Joker? Come ON! These two characters have so little in common it isnt funny--other than a serious mad-on for Bats/Spidey

John6777

12-29-2002, 12:12 PM

I am talking about the lastest Spider-woman who appeared in Spider-man comics in 2000. I am pretty sure she disappeared soon after. (Spider-Girl was still around so i think they had to get rid of her). Also the only real similarities are.

Joker and Goblin
Catwoman and Black Cat.

I Think Black Cat's whole slutty personality was just a ripp off of Catwoman.

Also i would like to say that even though i phrased it wrong i want to know not only Spider-man but how about Batman Ripping off Spider-man.

Killer Croc's New Jim Lee design looks alot like Lizard. I even think he has a tail.

TheGothsandman

12-29-2002, 12:18 PM

Any character has few similarities, as previously said.

Superman - the Guardian(the shi'ar empire guy)
yea they are both alien, and have similar powers. The skin, the skin is definatly similar.....no wait...well the hair I mean c'mon..thats not right either....

Batman - Moonknight - they both parade in costumes at night, both have Knight in a name, both wear alot of white...no thats right either. well...they both have werewolf in them...no wait...they're both rich!!...thats not right either is it?

two examples, yea there are a couple but not many between any character.

Samhaine

12-29-2002, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by John6777
I am talking about the lastest Spider-woman who appeared in Spider-man comics in 2000. I am pretty sure she disappeared soon after. (Spider-Girl was still around so i think they had to get rid of her). Also the only real similarities are.
The only reason the Byrne garbage was called Spider-Woman was because of the Spider-Girl series. And that series got cancelled because it was bad - very, very bad. SG is based in a possible future, and had no effect on SW, sans the name. If I'm remembering right, she had a slight connection to Spidey (I actually have the issues where she appeared), but it was so convuluted that it made no sense to anyone - except, apparantly, Bendis.

Killer Croc's New Jim Lee design looks alot like Lizard. I even think he has a tail.
Ummm....Croc is simply a man with a skin condition - so not a rip-off of Lizard. In regards to the new design? Jim Lee is a bad artist, that's all.

The Guard

12-30-2002, 12:29 AM

I have heard that there was a DC character called The Blue Spider in the 1940's or the 1950's. This character apparently had very similar powers to Spider-Man. Anyway, apparently DC decided that the idea was stupid, and The Blue Spider wasn't used much. Stan Lee came upon the idea, and thus was born Spider-Man. I've never seen any proof to back this up. Anyone know anything about this?

As for similarites, of course there are. Why do you think half the superheroes in the world are reporters or have a reporter girlfriend? It's because the various nuances of Clark Kent and Lois Lane were so successful. So...like anything successful, they were copied. But Spider-Man also has several major differences that do set him apart. One, he's a teenager. A teenager with great powers. Two, he is, or at least used to be, a nerd. A guy no girl in her right mind would "fall for". His villains, yes, it could be argued that they are similar to Batman's rogues, but then, heroes were supposed to have a Rogues Gallery. To me, The Green Goblin is nothing like The Joker. So they both have evil laughs. So what? Half the villains in the history of literature do. :) Catwoman/Black Cat...there might be something there, there are definitely similarities between them. As for The Lizard and Killer Croc...didn't The Lizard come first?

slackermonkey

12-30-2002, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by The Xenos
The only thing about the Spider-man movie that made me think of Batman was the bridge scene where the Goblin made Spider-man make a choice. It reminded me of Batman Forever. Though I think it was much better here. Heck, it made me regret seeing Batman Forever and making me think of it... but I'll leave my Schumacher bashing for another day.

The bridge scene was based on a scene from Amazing Spider-Man #121, except for the choice part, which I'm pretty sure was based on the Batman Forever scene.

Originally posted by Reed Richards
funny, none of them have anything to do with Spidey himself-- other than Julia's rip-off of his black costume look.

I'm pretty sure it was the other way around. Spider-Woman II (Julia) first showed up during Secret Wars, and towards the end of that mini-series, Spidey got his symbiote costume. I'm positive Spidey even made a comment about it along the lines of, "I must have been subconsciously influenced by that Spider-Woman's costume."

I'm embarrassed to say I know this stuff. :p

Back to the topic - Joker and Green Goblin are definitely very similar. The Goblin didn't start off as such, but eventually evolved into a very Joker-like character. They're both maniacal mastermind types, have purple and green color schemes (Joker's tie and vest are green, right?), and their main purposes in the rogue's galleries are to figure out new ways to torment Batman/Spider-Man (i.e. Joker crippled Batgirl and killed Robin II; the Goblin killed Gwen Stacy, abducted Peter and Mary Jane's baby, and threw Flash Thompson into a coma.)

Copperhead and Scorpion... I noticed this when watching "Justice League." I think Copperhead came just a little bit later, though, around '67 or '68. Scorpion was in '64 or '65. Their only differences (besides the snake/arachnid motifs) are that I believe Scorpion is stronger, but Copperhead has poison.

I think the similarities between Catwoman and Black Cat are the closest. I'm sure Marvel didn't create Black Cat without Catwoman in mind, and the whole "giving Black Cat powers" thing was an obvious attempt at differentiating the two.

slackermonkey

12-30-2002, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by The Guard
I have heard that there was a DC character called The Blue Spider in the 1940's or the 1950's. This character apparently had very similar powers to Spider-Man. Anyway, apparently DC decided that the idea was stupid, and The Blue Spider wasn't used much. Stan Lee came upon the idea, and thus was born Spider-Man. I've never seen any proof to back this up. Anyone know anything about this?

I have a magazine that has an article on that. It says that Jack Kirby and Joe Simon created a character called the Silver Spider (I'm assuming this is what you were talking about) for DC in 1954, but DC rejected it and it was never published. When Stan Lee created Spider-Man, he had no idea of the Silver Spider until Kirby showed it to him... turned out to be coincidence. I think Stan even confirmed this on the Mutants, Monsters, and Marvels DVD too, so I guess it's the official story on that.

Either that or maybe you're thinking of the Blue Beetle, who was published during the late 40s/early 50s. I don't know much about him to help you though.

Ed Liu

12-30-2002, 10:18 AM

Howdy,

Originally posted by The Xenos
One simialrity I've thought of and I'd like to point out are their creators. Many argue that Jack Kirby deserves more credit then he got for Spider-man and Stan Lee got too much. I'm not sure how true it is. I am certain that Bill Finger never got enough credit for Batman and Bob Kane (God rest him) got too much credit and glory for it. There's a whole story behind it too. Some may say Kirby deserved more priase for Spider-man and a lot of Marvel, but he wasn't as shafted as Bill Finger was.

I agree about Bill Finger & Bob Kane, but it was Steve Ditko who co-created Spider-Man with Stan Lee, not Jack Kirby. I'm not sure how much Kirby really had to do with Spider-Man directly, and I don't think he ever attempted to claim any real credit for Spider-Man.

On one extreme, you can say that every comic book superhero is a ripoff of Superman and Batman. They were the first, after all, and established a lot of the ground rules which have been used for going on nearly 70 years now. On the other extreme, you can point to a gazillion differences in the details to claim a character isn't just a rip-off of one of the two. If you want to go further, you can say that Superman and Batman were really just ripping off the pulp magazines and novels that spawned them, which were ripping off folks like Dickens structurally and Shakespeare thematically, both of whom ripped off Homer, etc.

Personally, I'd rather just read the comics.

-- Ed/Ace

LadyM

12-30-2002, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by El Goober
Either that or maybe you're thinking of the Blue Beetle, who was published during the late 40s/early 50s. I don't know much about him to help you though.

The most recent Blue Beetle, Ted Kord, was created and designed by Ditko . . . I guess he just liked bug-themed heroes? :) Blue Beetle (that version) debuted three or four years after Spidey.

Now you know . . . and knowing is half the battle! :p

BTW, I typed Kirby instead of Ditko at first too . . . is it something in the water here? :harley:

~LM~

The Guard

12-30-2002, 05:29 PM

The bridge scene was based on a scene from Amazing Spider-Man #121, except for the choice part, which I'm pretty sure was based on the Batman Forever scene.

The "choice" thing is prevalent in literature. It happens all the time in comics and pulp magazines. One such example...the "hanging judge" sequence in Dick Grayson's past.

I have a magazine that has an article on that. It says that Jack Kirby and Joe Simon created a character called the Silver Spider (I'm assuming this is what you were talking about) for DC in 1954, but DC rejected it and it was never published. When Stan Lee created Spider-Man, he had no idea of the Silver Spider until Kirby showed it to him... turned out to be coincidence. I think Stan even confirmed this on the Mutants, Monsters, and Marvels DVD too, so I guess it's the official story on that.

Could be the Silver Spider. Probably is.

alex

12-30-2002, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by John6777

Catwoman and Black Cat.

I Think Black Cat's whole slutty personality was just a ripp off of Catwoman.

As a Catwoman fan, I deeply resent that remark. Being strong willed and comfortable with your sexuality does not make one slutty.

Frank White

12-31-2002, 02:46 AM

Who is Bill Finger?

The Guard

12-31-2002, 03:54 AM

Bill Finger is the man who co-created Batman with Bob Kane. He's more or less responsible for the costume, the batarangs, the cave, the idea of Batvehicles, and possibly the origin.

Frank White

12-31-2002, 02:16 PM

Really? Then what did Bob Kane do? :knd1:

BLACKHEART

12-31-2002, 03:12 PM

"Catwoman - Black Cat : I’ll grant you this one. These two are a little too close for comfort. But last time I checked, Selena didn’t have superpowers"

The last time I checked neither did Black Cat who was created after Catwoman by the way.

The Guard

12-31-2002, 04:58 PM

Really? Then what did Bob Kane do?

Traced over a picture of Superman.

alex

12-31-2002, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by Frank White
Really? Then what did Bob Kane do? :knd1:

bob kane came up with the initial concept

Marc

12-31-2002, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by SLIPKNOT
The last time I checked neither did Black Cat who was created after Catwoman by the way.Last time I read a Black Cat story she had those "bad luck" powers. It seems Felicia no longer has those powers, so that's that.

- Cap

Reed Richards

01-02-2003, 01:45 PM

Felicia lost her powers saving Spidey from losing HIS powers in an issue of AMS from the early 90s

Chameleon was posing as a scientist wanting to run tests on spideys powers-- what the machine really did was remove them! he hired the Femme Fatals (whatever happened to them?? they seemed kinda cool!) to attack spidey and make him question whether he wanted to REMAIN spider-man.

it was a pretty decent few issues if you ask me-- and the Erik Larsen art was GREAT

Joker21

02-16-2003, 01:51 AM

I think that Man Bat is closer in character to Lizard than Killer Croc

Buddy Lee

02-17-2003, 01:11 AM

I think the Terry McGuiness/Batman Beyond version has more simularities to Spider-Man than the Bruce Wayne/Batman.

Both are teenagers. BB uses rope like devices that project from his wrist much like Spider-Man's web shooters. BB's costume looks very similar to Spider-Man's black symbiote costume.

But as far as the whole debate centering around Green Goblin-Joker, Black Cat-Catwoman, and Lizard-Killer Croc, I don't see a strong argument to be made on how similar those particular characters are