View Full Version : Bruce and the young'uns.
Mr. Mayhem
08-31-2001, 07:48 AM
Through out his life, Bruce Wayne has encountered many young people. Dick, Barbara, Tim, and now Terry. Who do you think he was closest to? Everyone always says Dick, but I kinda disagree. It seems like Bruce and Dick did not even speak much in a 40 year time frame. I think Bruce was probably real close to Tim like a father figure. We can see the hurt Bruce has carried after what Joker did to his surrogant son. Of course we know Barbara went from friend to lover back to friend. Terry has gotten close to Bruce almost in a father/son type of way. Terry has restored fire in Bruce's desire to rage war on crime. I believe if Terry were to get killed, that Bruce would shut down completely. So who was Bruce the closest to? Hey your guess is as good as mine! I guess I might say all of them.
Kal-el
08-31-2001, 08:50 AM
I have a feeling Bruce felt closeness to all of them in different ways. Dick was the first, but ended up turning on Bruce and going out on his own. The way Bruce/Batman thinks, this may have been his plan for Dick the whole time. I see Bruce and Tim as much more of a father-son relationship. Not that Bruce had softened, but it always seemed to me that he might not have known the best way to show his affection for Tim. Barbara is so much of a different situation. The fact that she was female, attractive, the daughter of Commissioner Gordon...these presented a very different challange for Bruce.
I see Terry and Bruce not so much as father-son but more a crabby uncle-energetic nephew relationship. Bruce seems to have regained some of the zeal her might have lost in the fight for justice, due in part to Terry's enthusiasm and potential.
Kal-el
08-31-2001, 08:59 AM
Whoops! An answer to your question may have been nice. As for the one Bruce was closest to, imo it would probably be Dick. He was the first. When Dick came along, Bruce was still relatively young. That, coupled with Dick's age, allowed the two of them to mature together, almost like a brotherly relationship.
Mr. Mayhem
08-31-2001, 10:32 AM
I do agree about Bruce and Dick being more like brothers. They are too close (About a 10 to 12 year age difference) in age to be considered father and son. They were also more alike and kinda grew up together (even though they split). Dick grew physically and mentally, while Bruce continued to grow mentally. Tim was the one in need of a stable father figure because his real family was screwed up. We can see they were like father and son just by that ending scene in ROTJ. Now the relationship between Bruce and Barbara seems alittle controversial. I'm willing to bet Bruce fell for Barbara out of being alone and sexual desire. He was going through that mid-life crisis period and fell for the beautiful, young, voluptuous Barbara. Of course the obession to be Batman won with Bruce in the end. I'm also willing to bet Dick was really sore at Bruce. We all know Barbara was Dick's girl (whether it was puppy love or not). See that's what I love about the animated Batman series'. They give you all these hints to piece together, and it's so much more than just any two dimensional cartoon.
Kal-el
08-31-2001, 11:06 AM
Knowing the Bruce/Batman personality split, I wonder if it was Bruce falling for Barbara or Batman falling for Batgirl. It's a stretch, I know. Bruce had a much closer personal relationship with Dick and Tim. With them there was a mentoring aspect started with Bruce and moving to Batman. Barbara became Batgirl for different reasons that the others became their alter-egos. Both Bruce and Batman, at their core, are solitary figures. This seems to include emotional and even sexual seclusion. Barbara/Batgirl may have been the most viable option for Bruce/Batman to become involved with because of their level of understanding and commonality in purpose.
Dick broke away from Bruce for numerous reasons, but one may have been to find a better way to include a life in which he could be his alter-ego (changing his name, costume, and city)but still keeping his identity as Dick Grayson intact. This could be similar to Superman stating in S:TAS that he is Clark Kent and he'd go crazy if he had to be Superman all the time.
superfreak
08-31-2001, 03:39 PM
Here is my take of Bruce's relationship with his various partner.
Bruce and Dick: uncle-nephew/brothers.
Bruce and Terry: grandfather-grandson.
Bruce and Tim: father-son
Bruce and Barbara: Bruce is drawn to Barbara becuase she's somewhat like Andrea. :p
James
08-31-2001, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Kal-el
I see Terry and Bruce not so much as father-son but more a crabby uncle-energetic nephew relationship. Bruce seems to have regained some of the zeal her might have lost in the fight for justice, due in part to Terry's enthusiasm and potential.
Bruce maybe close to all the Batcrew in different ways - that is indeed the more liberal and truthful answer, but it's more fun to pin down and back one character!
I like the idea of Terry as an uncle/nephew relationship. Bruce certainly doesn't have the command over Terry he exerts over the previous batcrew - this maybe to do with his physical weakness, but possibly something far more complex. In fact, he seems quite willing to give Terry a far more equal relationship. Less as a sidekick and more of a protege. Terry is the vessel for the continuation of the batline - not just support for the current generation. Does Bruce recognize the enthusiasm and potential in Terry as what he now lacks in his own personna? Does this gove him a more detached relationship. Bruce is no longer looking for a companion for his adventures - he is looking for a replacement, giving the two a less intense friendship and a stronger working relationship.
Bruce is no longer looking to a companion to control, but someone to relinquish control to. Terry's relationship with Bruce I think is very different to the other three.
Barbara's relationship - IMO - is the most superficial of the four. Next....
Tim and Dick are on similar ground, being almost like blood family (something I hope Bruce does NOT consider Barbara to be!! :D )
I think point about Dick being more like a younger brother to Tim being the son is excellent. Tim's 'failure' in ROTJ (contentious!) in Bruce's eyes is like that a father may have in a son who has failed to live up to expectations.
I'm going to be a rebel and go for Tim as Tim had the most profound effect on Bruce's life and is much to - ahem - 'blame' for how Bruce is in BB.... :D
optimal321
08-31-2001, 04:56 PM
Well, Bruce and Dick really had a very close relationship at the begining. BTAS shows that even though Dick got fed up sometimes, he looked at Bruce w/ admiration, compation, and partnership (but just as a sidekick. Don't read too much into that:p ). Perfect example is in Second Chance when, even though Robin gets angry at Bats for leaving him behind, he puts his arm on his shoulder and the two share a few meaningful words on their friendship.
And honestly, imo, TNBA didn't delve too much into Bruce's relationship w/ Tim. You can tell he thinks of him as a son, but i just didn't see the relationship as clearly as Bruce and Dick. ROTJ does a better job though.
As for Bruce and Terry, a very unique relationship is forged between the two. It's not Batman and his Robins anymore. It's Batman and Batman. These two have a different kind of situation because of their similarities. The both need each other to help the other be Batman. Whether it's actually Terry going out and fighting crime, or Bruce just doing his part, they need each other. It's not quite father/son, or partner relationship. It's a little bit of both.
Nightwing
09-05-2001, 01:07 PM
I only read the first couple of lines of the first post and I knew my answer. Dick Grayson by far. How do I know? I guess we can call it a catch 22.....
Dick separated Bruce from his life BECAUSE of the fact that Dick was the one who got the closest to him. Being Batman is an obsession. It warped Bruce's mind. He's still a good person deep down, in a few ways, but the obsession still rules overall.
Now Bruce used the goodness in him (a lot of which augmented and forced on him by the obsession to punish criminals) to raise Dick, and make him a good person. Which begets the fact that Nightwing is a great character because it's like having all the good traits of Batman but none of the bad, give or take maybe one or two.
When Dick became old enough, he realized all this about Bruce, and wanted to help him, but knew he couldn't. Bruce is trapped. And Dick knows it.
Will Tim know it once he grows up and what not? Yeah I think it's possible.
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