What is your biggest gripe about teen/family shows/toons? [Archive]

Antiyonder

11-07-2002, 11:25 PM

I'm talking about shows like:
Lizzie McGuire
All of those Mary Kate and Ashley shows. (Don't really watch this often, but I've seen enough to add them to the list.

I turned 20 earlier this year. I still have the urge to watch teen show. I guess they have enough likable characters to keep them somewhat interesting.

I don't have many opitions which is why I put others up there.

Moonbay

11-07-2002, 11:38 PM

Hmmmmmm..... these shows are ok, but just a teensey bit overdone. Some teens in the real world are much more than parties, school, and family. But I doubt the mood-swinging teen would be very popular as a tv show! :D

But yeah, I do agree about the stereotyping....

Sango

11-08-2002, 12:02 AM

Too bad there's not an 'all of the above' button!

I voted for the girls being portrayed as airheads...I usually end up watching shows that are more geared towards guys because the ones that are geared towards girls usually are just about shopping and fashion. And another thing that bothers me, especially with the Mary-Kate and Ashley shows, is that girls are portrayed as constantly drooling over "hot" guys and wanting to be popular. I know I'm not like that and most of the girls I talk to aren't... :rolleyes: Oh, well...Someone out there must watch those shows or else they wouldn't make them...

Mek

11-08-2002, 01:04 AM

I wish I could say 'all of the above'.

I hate the airheaded girl sterotype, as well as the overbearing/stupid parents and the annoying sibling thing. (I'd like to see them live with an older sister with a mental disability and a 13-year old brother with autism) Grrrr. >=(

Mynd Hed

11-08-2002, 03:23 AM

It's all a matter of presentation, I think... I mean, Daria had all those same stereotypes, and yet it came across as intelligent satire. Another show has the exact same stereotypes, with just a slightly different presentation or angle, and it comes across as trite and oversimplified.

Wierd.

RZetlin

11-08-2002, 07:25 AM

The stereotyping. I don't like the stereotyping the characters get.

There's always the parent that doesn't understand the kids or teenager.

The teacher who is out to "get" the student.

And of course there's the jocks, nerds, rich brats etc.

Throughout the series the character never develops into something more.

Daniel P

11-08-2002, 07:33 AM

Boys are either popular idiots or geeks. That's what ticks me off the most...

Mad Mary Kidd

11-08-2002, 08:07 AM

Shame there wasn't an "all of the above" option...

batboy2001

11-08-2002, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Mynd Hed
It's all a matter of presentation, I think... I mean, Daria had all those same stereotypes, and yet it came across as intelligent satire. Another show has the exact same stereotypes, with just a slightly different presentation or angle, and it comes across as trite and oversimplified.

Wierd. Well, it WAS a satire, but if you were a stupid MTV steryotype person, I guess you could say it was a regular teen show? It seemingly only had those things for the sake of satire. But most MTV watches musta not got it, eh?

candy17

11-08-2002, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Mad Mary Kidd
Shame there wasn't an "all of the above" option...

Amen to that.

candy17

11-08-2002, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Mynd Hed
It's all a matter of presentation, I think... I mean, Daria had all those same stereotypes, and yet it came across as intelligent satire. Another show has the exact same stereotypes, with just a slightly different presentation or angle, and it comes across as trite and oversimplified.

Wierd.

Well, Daria was an exception to this. It was a smart TV show that (as usual) went horribly to seed and got canned.

Mynd Hed

11-08-2002, 02:01 PM

Throughout the series the character never develops into something more.

I think that pretty much sums up the flaw in using such stereotypes as characters. Even in Daria, which was a very intelligent show that used those stereotypes to great effect, we saw the limitation. You establish the stereotypical characters, you make fun of them for a season or two, and then... you've got nowhere to go. So they turned that show into a soap opera, and it rapidly went downhill.
I think the lesson here is that stereotypical characters can work well for, say, a movie, a miniseries, or a television series that is going to have a purposefully short run- IF you approach it from an intelligent satirical angle, the way Daria did. But you can't make it last forever without a noticeable drop in quality.

Antiyonder

11-08-2002, 03:51 PM

I wanted to know what your biggest gripe with these shows are.
So, I wanted to make it challenging.

I forgot to mention my biggest gripe:
Those who are socially, mentally and physically challenged are portrayed as
losers. To me that's feels like a slap
in the face.

Do the networks airing this stuff do it to talk down to us or they think we find it entertaining?

Drachentöter

11-08-2002, 04:06 PM

But all of the above would show that these shows have SO much wrong with them. Any mods out there? C'mon!

Actually, Proud Family isn't THAT stereotypical in that the parents aren't perfect or even nice. Hell, Oscar's relationship with his mother is more realistic than some dramas. The kids are also pretty original characters and the line between "good kids" and "bad kids" isn't clearly defined.

Lizzie McGuire is going to be responsible for another generation of docile females with nothing but men and fashion on their mind. She's the new Barbie.

Kim Possible puts too much stress on being "well-rounded." You know, be a cheerleader, get straight A's, save the world. How's that for pressure?

I'm not entirely convinced that Mary-Kate and Ashley aren't robots made by media moguls with the sole intention to mold girls into ditzes and boost ratings in the "horny boys" audience bracket.

Shows in this genre are so fake and unoriginal. If McGuire were dealing with real issues she'd be pregnant by now. But knowing TV execs, that would be turned into some cheesy adult drama. We need more satire. We need characters who are popular with some cliques and a geek with others. We need...more Malcom in the Middle.

Tobias

11-08-2002, 05:00 PM

I hate all those stereotypes, but the one that makes me want to throw the t.v. out the window is the light that geeks and losers are portrayed in. Not all geeks spend their time in the computer lab, or the library, or playing D&D. Some of them actually do have pretty active social lives.

Just once I'd like to see a show where a nerd actually kick's the jock's ass without the aid of superpowers or fancy gadgets.

Galaxia

11-08-2002, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Sango
Too bad there's not an 'all of the above' button!

Yeah, I know :rolleyes: :cool:

jeffrey 228

11-08-2002, 05:17 PM

Guys who are socially, mentally and physically challenged are portrayed as geeks, losers, wimps and are poorly treated by the popular crowd.

I think that is the one that gives me troble.

zarius

11-08-2002, 05:29 PM

Kim Possible is, like so many shows today on the "girl power" trip, (and rightfully so) but seriously...A CHEERLEADER saving the world is just plain ridiculous :rolleyes:

Sharklady

11-08-2002, 05:42 PM

> I mean, Daria had all those same stereotypes... <

Yes, but it also included some of those stereotypes' opposites.
Daria herself was the furthest thing from a fashion-obsessed-airhead to ever wear a skirt on TV (with the possible exception of 'Samurai Jack's Scotsman.)

Kuro-Neko

11-08-2002, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by zarius
Kim Possible is, like so many shows today on the "girl power" trip, (and rightfully so) but seriously...A CHEERLEADER saving the world is just plain ridiculous :rolleyes:
i'm gonna have to agree with you that they shouldn't have made Kim a cheerleader.It doesn't really go with her 'saving the world thing'.Even Ron makes fun of this in one of the episodes.
anyway you should have made an 'all of the above' option

Nadine

11-08-2002, 09:14 PM

I went with the first option... it seems a lot of these shows (well, the non-satirical ones) focus a lot on the issue of getting in with the popular crowd. As Told By Ginger springs to mind... that show really annoys me (I apologize to any ATBG fans here).

Orange Star

11-09-2002, 01:22 AM

I voted Nerds and Geeks but If I could vote for more than one thing, I'd vote for Peer Pressure, Fads, and Popularity as well.

Nerds and Geeks: I hate this. I almost got straight As if it wasn't for PE (which I got a B in, nosey). Because of this, everybody thinks I'm a nerd, and I won't get a date until I'm 35.

PP, F, and Popularity: As Nadine mentioned, ATBG comes to mind. In one episode, they get down to the "I think I like *insert hot, dreamy guy's name here* two seconds in the SHOW!

BrendaBat

11-09-2002, 01:50 AM

Popularity: As Nadine mentioned, ATBG comes to mind. In one episode, they get down to the "I think I like *insert hot, dreamy guy's name here* two seconds in the SHOW!
I think we all agree that As Told By Ginger is the worst offender in the pre-teen soap opera genre.

Anyway, I think the worst cliché is the "girl who's only desire in life is to be in the popular crowd and/or swoon over a cute guy". It's just completly insulting to young women :mad:

I think that pretty much sums up the flaw in using such stereotypes as characters. Even in Daria, which was a very intelligent show that used those stereotypes to great effect, we saw the limitation. You establish the stereotypical characters, you make fun of them for a season or two, and then... you've got nowhere to go. So they turned that show into a soap opera, and it rapidly went downhill.
I also HATED "Soap opera Daria"!! Whoever made the decision to add Tom and create a back-stabbing plot to rival 'Days Of Our Lives' should be severly beaten!

Greek_Honeybee

11-09-2002, 02:31 AM

I answered popularity, peer pressure and fads. But I really can't say for certain as they all offend me. I never watch those shows at all because they're just annoying all around. :p

Magentabeams

11-09-2002, 03:18 PM

I choose the first one. It just makes prep more annoying in real life.

Sarahanne

Leaping Larry Jojo

11-12-2002, 12:43 PM

Lack of character development. Stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes if they devoted some time to making their characters deeper and more complex. Family shows eschew deep characterization as if it were a disease.

mbaker

11-12-2002, 06:30 PM

All of the above, as well as the pointless efforts from the live action shows trying so hard to act like cartoons.

jrh31584

11-12-2002, 09:52 PM

I would have voted all of the above. Since that was not an option, I chose other. All the choices have ruined the concept of the so called family show to the point of no return.

ChuckRoast

11-12-2002, 10:08 PM

I'd chose Other, because there was no All of the Above option.

TServo2049

11-12-2002, 10:50 PM

I voted "Others." Why? Because there was no "All of the above."

DaphHime

11-13-2002, 01:15 AM

I also wish there was an all of the above.

I picked "Premots popularty, peer pressuer." It seems that if you're not a ahleate or a cheerleader you're not worth it. I still think that popularty is the root of all evil in high school. It's not what it's cracked up to me. I keep hearing about these parties that the popular people go to and get drunk. That doesn't sound like my idea of a good time. :rolleyes:

That and I think most of those toons can be a tad preachy. And I can't stand it when the main female character is a air head who cares about nothing other than shopping, fashoin, boys, and being popular. And those who do care about what matters, like grades and sccudeing in life, a protrayed as losers or geeks. The airheads are the losers in my eyes.

mbaker

11-14-2002, 07:10 PM

I agree DaphHime. One of the biggest problems with these shows is the fact that their lead characters all look pretty (Not that's bad, but looks are all you need to survive.) It's as if the produces of these shows only make their casting descisions by looks, and nothing but looks. It drives me crazy to see all these air head's, and jocks getting all the attention, while anybody with real talent gets seriously overlooked! Popularity is the root of all evil!

Tommy Lawson

11-14-2002, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Antiyonder
Those who are socially, mentally and physically challenged are portrayed as
losers. To me that's feels like a slap
in the face.

Do the networks airing this stuff do it to talk down to us or they think we find it entertaining?

I totally agree that the "loser" stereotype for someone facing some sort of disability is uncalled for in shows.

Why do the networks air these stereotypes in their shows? Three simple words: Lowest Common Denominator. The networks are trying to appeal to the most amount of people. Remember, their goal is to maximize ratings, not make a statement. While I'd love to see a series where the tradition "loser groups" of TV animation save the day, in reality, getting that idea past any network is very difficult. They want tried-and-true programming, not programming with a significant risk. Ratings data also backs that up, as Kim Possible, Lizzie McGuire, and The Proud Family, are among the highest rated programs on both the Disney Channel and ABC Kids.

czyznyck99

11-14-2002, 08:20 PM

I have two main problems.

1. Girl power, at school. It's stinks, is unrealistically below drama, and best reserved for an afterschool special, not Saturday morning. And are we getting 15+ Saturday morning toons based "at school." Do kids even get a weekend anymore? The whole concept of girl power is much too linear in itself.

2. Exactly what someone else said about the "loser" character. The social, academic, and physical outcast have either always have to be stomped on, or stomping someone else. They can't have an ice cream, someone has to take it, or they just swiped it.
Wrong, wrong.

Later.

mbaker

11-14-2002, 08:25 PM

Well this is A slap in the face! No wonder Di$ney dosen't want to make another show like "Gargoyles" anymore! Even before that, Di$ney's shows were at least entertaining, and creative. Now they just churn out one crappy show after another! The suits probably had "No Brain" pills in their drinks by the time the Zoog virus infected that network!

Leaping Larry Jojo

11-14-2002, 08:41 PM

There's nothing wrong with stereotypes as long as you develop the stereotypes into realistic characters. Writers CAN "trick" the networks by adding depth to what might be otherwise thin or stereotypical characters. I'm convinced good writers can turn the most offensive family shows into thoughtful AND believable entertainment, with characters one can sympathize with despite being "stereotypes" at first glance. After all, at first glance, many students in high school ARE either geeks, jocks, weirdos or snobby popular people, at least until you get to know them.

I think one of the problems, along with the fact that writers have too many network restraints, is that they don't know how to write "real." Many writers are taught how to write a certain way for entertainment--they can write witty one-liners, preachy monologues, amusing dialogue, 3 act scripts, but they have absolutely no idea of how people really talk and think. They are more concerned with "amusing" the audience or "preaching" rather than establishing an engrossing and believable world for viewers to take part in. Granted, I'm not criticizing all writers, but there are a heck of a lot of uncreative pen-pushers who can't do anything good with the material they are given.

You don't know how many veteran writers I've talked to who've told me that many of today's young professional writers don't have any idea what the veterans are talking about when they say, "Don't just write for amusement in this episode; write it real."

EightOh

11-14-2002, 10:42 PM

I turned 20 earlier this year. I still have the urge to watch teen show.I'm 17, and lost the urge to watch most teen/family-oriented shows three or four years ago. ;)

ut seriously...A CHEERLEADER saving the world is just plain ridiculous Well, in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy was originally a cheerleader, and that didn't keep it from becoming one of the few really good shows left on television. I've seen exactly one episode of Kim Possible, and didn't think it was that bad, personally, or how her being a cheerleader was some sort of obstacle to the story.

I think the problem with most teen/tween/family-oriented shows is that they're too trite, unoriginal, preachy, and boring. They are, for the most part, a waste of time.

Antiyonder

04-29-2003, 10:38 PM

Shnay

04-30-2003, 02:17 AM

I think one of the problems, along with the fact that writers have too many network restraints, is that they don't know how to write "real." Many writers are taught how to write a certain way for entertainment--they can write witty one-liners, preachy monologues, amusing dialogue, 3 act scripts, but they have absolutely no idea of how people really talk and think. They are more concerned with "amusing" the audience or "preaching" rather than establishing an engrossing and believable world for viewers to take part in. Granted, I'm not criticizing all writers, but there are a heck of a lot of uncreative pen-pushers who can't do anything good with the material they are given.

I think you hit the nail on the head, here. Good writing is tough. Shallow stereotypes are easy. Why don't we see better developed characters? Because these shows don't have good enough writers to accomplish that. Because, chances are, if you're a really good writer, you wouldn't be writing for a teen show.

So, they resort to the airheaded girl, the geeky guy, the dim-witted parents, and the bratty little brother. And kids grow up watching (and sometimes, emulating) these characters because people aren't taking the time or effort to make something real.

Daniel P

04-30-2003, 07:41 AM

What I don't get on these sterotypes is why parents don't raise a
stink about them. They complain about violence and such, but they
don't care about the way that parents, teachers and teens/kids are
portrayed on teen shows. What's up with that?It is hypocritical for the networks to do this.

And if they can have stereotypes in these cartoons how come they edit Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry for having stereotypes? The black kid in modern cartoons is always a sports player or something similar to that.

Antiyonder

04-30-2003, 10:54 PM

And I can't stand it when the main female character is a air head who cares about nothing other than shopping, fashoin, boys, and being popular. And those who do care about what matters, like grades and sccudeing in life, a protrayed as losers or geeks. The airheads are the losers in my eyes.
Seems like the writers of these
shows are sending a negative message. That popularity and good
looks are more important than being talented and hard working.

Here's something ironic that I wonder, why do action cartoon that are highly fiction do better at depicting people realistically, but family/teen shows do the unrealistic sterotype? Anyone get what I'm saying?