Rumors of membership changes (possible spoilers)

[superfriend]

I warned you in the heading, possible spoilers.

I was at a HeroClix tournament a few weeks back when someone told me there was a member that the audience was having trouble 'connecting with'. That same person told me this member was going to be replaced with 2 new members. He read it in some cartoon/anime magazine. Who?

Rumor: Hawkgirl is out, Aquaman & Zatanna are in ???

What do you guys think?

[DisneyBoy]

I doubt it. Sure, if any member of the team is going to be replaced, it would and should be her - since she really has no background and little personality or fame- but the creative team has spent a lot of time defending her inclusion on the show. To suddenly kick her out and replace her with two more well-known members would be a contradiction. It's a rumour.

However, I would like to add that I do expect to see a cast change some time in the third season, if only because it'll open up the story possibilities. Hawkgirl could be presumed dead, or simply return to Thanagar, and Aquaman could step in, on a temporary basis. I'd also really like to see the grim and aging John Steward retire and retrain Kyle so he could help the League out. These are all my personal wishes of course, and not fact or rumours, but still, tweaking the cast could indeed be a wise step, but only in the future.

[DR.MID-NITE]

I have been saying this for months. Although, I like Hawkgirl. She has the same powers (to a lesser effect) than the others. And their have been a few episodes where the league has faced opponents who use magic. I think Zatanna would make a great addition to the league. Nice to have heroes with different abilities.
Now, if they would only bring in the Atom. ;)

[Drachentöter]

I disagree with a cast change this early in the series. I think Hawkgirl is still an important member of the team and she does have a personallity, it just hasn't been focused on enough. I'd give it another season before deciding who should be booted off.

Really, I'd rather it be J'onn, as much as I like him. He's just the most depressing member of the JL with his never-changing monotone and though it's understandable from a character point of view...it's is a kid's show. But, then, he is the only telepath while all HG can do is fly (along with WW, Supes, GL, MM) and smash stuff with a mace. That's why I hope season two looks at her personallity, rather than her abilities.

If it were up to me, none of them would be kicked off and they'd instead be fleshed out to a point where the majority of fans like them all. But after the thrid season...dynamics could become stale. I do think the replacement of John Stewart with Kyle Rayner could work...for a while. (Rotating GLs!) But keep in mind, Batman was never replaced on BTAS/TNBA. Dick Grayson hung around for TNBA. Not everyone reacts to character replacements well. But, then, those series were about a single character and his inner conflicts. JL is different.

I do not want Aquaman to join the JL full-time. If you ever saw Superfriends, you realized that he became the odd man out constantly. (How's he going to use his powers on the Watchtower?) So he has super strength and a hook. How dull. Batman could take him on (as opposed to any of the current members).

So let's give it a couple of seasons, if it even lasts that long. Personally, I won't care who's replacing HG or MM if they aren't Marvel characters. Like that would ever happen.

[BeastBoyWonder]

As he was portrayed in "The Enemy Below", Aquaman belongs in Atlantis.

[Supremus]

There is no way they are going to change the line-up for season 2. I could see them perhaps adding a new member or two further down the line, but it's waaaay to early to do anything like that.

That said, I would love to see them get rid of J'onn in favor of Zatanna.

[James Harvey]

Not happenin' folks. Timm has stated the line up is staying as is. Whoever heard said this must've gotten some rumors wrong or some such. The current line-up is staying for the foreseeable future.

[Doc Rock]

I think your source got a little mixed up. I can tell you from a VERY reliable source that the 2 folks mentioned in your spoiler are on deck for their own shows. Maybe that's the confusion.

<<<Doc Rock>>>

[Storm]

Thanks goodess I like the roster the way it is. Aquaman doesn't seem League martials right now maybe he'll be a reserve member but not right now. Zantanna umm... Maybe I really prefer her in Gotham helping out Batman and the gang.

[slackermonkey]

Originally posted by Doc Rock
I think your source got a little mixed up. I can tell you from a VERY reliable source that the 2 folks mentioned in your spoiler are on deck for their own shows. Maybe that's the confusion.

<<<Doc Rock>>>

Zatanna's getting her own show? All I've heard about was an adult-oriented mini-series or ongoing comic series written by Paul Dini.

[Justice League 2000]

I don"t want hawkgirl to leave :)

[Thundercleese]

Who is Zantana?

Yeah, point and laugh. lol

But really, I've never heard of him(her?). Fill me in.

[Toddman]

Originally posted by Thundercleese
Who is Zantana?



Zatanna (the two n's are placed together) is a female DC Comics super-hero.

In the comics, she is a powerful sorceress who is known for speaking her spells backwards (a device that works better on the printed page than in animation). She was also a member of the JLA at one time. Her father was a magician named Zatara, who also spoke backward spells and was a crimefighter in the 1940's (he actually appeared in Action Comics #1, the same time as Superman).

In the animated world, Zatanna made one appearance in BTAS (in the episode "Zatanna"), and was portrayed as a stage magician w/no real magical powers. Her father was still Zatara, a stage magician and escape artist who trained a young Bruce Wayne before he became Batman.

You can look up info on the BTAS episode on this website.

Toddman

[Russkafin]

I don't think they should replace anyone, but I think it would be cool if they did a "Reserve League" type thing like what is going on in the current JLA comics... They could have characters that have appeared on the show (and maybe some from BTAS and STAS) come to fill in for the League while they have to go fight some kinda off-planet battle or something...

Get Nightwing, Etrigan, Metamorpho, Dr. Fate, Aquaman, Zatanna, Green Arrow, Kyle Rayner.... have them fill in for the big guns for a couple of eps and see how they stack up.

(BTW I know I am not the first person to suggest this, so I'm not trying to take credit for the idea... just saying I think it's a cool one!)

[Comic Book Boy]

Originally posted by storm1288
Thanks goodess I like the roster the way it is. Aquaman doesn't seem League martials right now maybe he'll be a reserve member but not right now. Zantanna umm... Maybe I really prefer her in Gotham helping out Batman and the gang.
i agree :D

[DerekPowers]

you know, i like hawkgirl alot more than i thought i would. out of all the characters in Jl, i think her character has developed alot and has stood out in certain ways. i dont know, i like her, shes a good character and i really feel like i've gotten to know her well over season one (which is more than i can say for flash and GL, whove both had spotlight shows, gl 2!). i like her character, but her character DESIGN is another story.;)

but as every one's said, its a rumor. especially since its confirmed aquaman is getting his own series, which wouldnt make sense if he was a regular on JL.

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't want them to get rid of anyone, because people would start whining. But I wouldn't mind a couple of additions, namely Green Arrow and Black Canary.

[Spookmonkey]

ehh... I'd rather have Dr. Fate instead of Zantanna. I like hawkgirl if for no other reason than her line to diana about men.. "don't knock em till ya try em" I laughed my ass off when she said that.

[Johnny Depp]

Originally posted by superfriend
I warned you in the heading, possible spoilers.

I was at a HeroClix tournament a few weeks back when someone told me there was a member that the audience was having trouble 'connecting with'. That same person told me this member was going to be replaced with 2 new members. He read it in some cartoon/anime magazine. Who?

Rumor: Hawkgirl is out, Aquaman & Zatanna are in ???

What do you guys think?

Rumor or not, that is truly logical and MY GOD, I HOPE IT'S FACT! I am sooo sick of the current JL roster ALREADY and I was really bummed out when the pigheaded/myopic Bruce Timm said he was keeping this flawed lineup indefinitely. I thought JEEZ you talk about spoilers, not changing the lineup EVER, gives us nothing to look forward to, least of all roster suprises!

The creative(I should say adapters team) team I point to laziness is a major part of Aquaman's or Zatanna's initial jilt. During the Grant Morrison run on JLA(which I loved) I noticed he kept bellyaching about how he couldn't figure out ways to incorporate Arthur/Aquaman in travel scenes/frames because on land his mode of transport is basically running. He's real fast on land 120mph or so, but it's not enough to compensate for his lack of flight. Timm and company are no different, and it's totally in keeping with the JL adaptation team(Timm,Fogel,Burnett,McGaughlin) complaining/qualifying about everything from being too lazy to draw modern character designs to deeming it too hard "to keep seven heroes busy" in any given episode. The land lovers like Batman has his Jet, and the Flash, well he's the fricken Flash. If you notice during the pilot(Secret Origins ) whenever they had to rapidly get around it was always flight unless your the Flash.

They, to put it simply, did not want to figure out various ways of travel for Aquaman! Everyone knows the show would be better with him as part of the original 7, and especially as a founding member,the way he was portrayed in Enemy Below he deserves much better than this guest star BS. The knowledge that for the duration of this series that THIS is sole team they'll use I find DEPPressing. One thing Aquaman has over every one of the JL members is unpredictability. His personality is as unpredictable as the current NFL season. You never ever know what side of the bed he'll wakeup on, he's the paradigm of bipolar heroes. If you were truly a writer that wished to suprise and challenge him/herself than you should bask in writing someone like Aquaman!

I remember back when JL was first taking shape and Bruce TImm made his hideous decision to include Hawkgirl on the roster, they were raving about her detective skills to rationalize her selection???? Something along the lines of "It would impress even Batman". After a whopping twenty three episodes I have seen virtually NO evidence of this. Unless of course a new forensic skill is whacking things ignorantly with an embellished mace never used in the comics, "HAAAAAHHHH", PUKE! Zatanna is a much better fit in terms of females. It's not even close from where I'm standing, I HATE HAWKGIRL more than War world reruns!

One major advantage Marvel's animated series have is they have more fun. They always keep you on your toes with a reference or a cameo. Not gratuitous, just FUN. Timm takes himself too seriously and forgets these properties are DC's not his!

[Drachentöter]

Let's face it, as much as we like Aquaman, he doesn't provide anything to the team unless he's near water/under it. You know what he'd be? Gi on Captain Planet. Fat lot of good he does in space.

I am all for Aquaman cameos though.

I am just a toon geek. Not a comic geek. And I never saw the "Zatanna" episode on BTAS, so I don't know any DC characters who should replace J'onn and Shayera right now. Hawkgirl has a LOT of merit as a personallity. She's more down-to-earth (despite her wings) with the other JLers than Diana, more fierce, and much more confrontational. She's been in at least two bar fights already! When was the last time Wonder Woman stepped into a bar?

Really, I won't be satisfied with any replacements for MM and HG this early in the series unless they're Storm from X-Men, Spiderman, or Captain America. Throw in Rogue too, I guess.

[Storm]

Now I like the "Reserve Members" idea

Green Arrow
Black Canary
Captian Marvel
Dr. Fate
Aquaman
Metamorpho
Steel

[Spookmonkey]

Aquaman will never be a part of JL. One simple reason. A very simple reason.

He's getting his own show.

So all you people who are *****ing that Aquaman isn't in the spotlight nearly enough can stop. HE'S GETTING HIS OWN SHOW. You can't get more in the spotlight than that. With his own show he doesn't need to keep up with anyone except his own villians. All the while not ever having to worry about fighting sea-crime in space.

And if you rally pay attention to the show, they make all the characters something closer to reaccuring guest appearances. Plus who says they cant have a guest appearance that lasts 6 episodes?

[Storm]

Originally posted by Spookmonkey
Aquaman will never be a part of JL. One simple reason. A very simple reason.

He's getting his own show.

So all you people who are *****ing that Aquaman isn't in the spotlight nearly enough can stop. HE'S GETTING HIS OWN SHOW. You can't get more in the spotlight than that. With his own show he doesn't need to keep up with anyone except his own villians. All the while not ever having to worry about fighting sea-crime in space.

And if you rally pay attention to the show, they make all the characters something closer to reaccuring guest appearances. Plus who says they cant have a guest appearance that lasts 6 episodes?

I'll be calm about this but with you cursing people out is not helping. Anyway if this post is directed to me cause I put Aquaman on my dream reserve member list that fine but the only reason I did that cause I think Superman and Aquaman have sort of a keen relationship that Aquaman maybe an alley towards the JL in a episode or two and when did I ever complain about Aquaman not being in the roster??? Never. I'll take Hawkgirl anyday and I'm pleased that Aquaman is finally getting in own series casue Superman and Batman had enough animated spotlight, it's time for some new heroes.

- Storm1288

[DR.MID-NITE]

I think the idea of reserve members is a great idea. It would expand the story lines and give a fresh look to the group on occasion. Besides, they do it in the comics all of the time. You have seen The Atom in a couple of JL comic issues.

[Drachentöter]

I think having an "official" reserve JLA would overcomplicate things. And it'd raise questions like, "Well, why don't they ALL just get together into one giant team instead of two?" Plot-wise, anyway, because I realize it's daunting to produce a fourteen member JLA for a cartoon.

I think it'd be cool to have an episode where lesser-knowns get together to save the JL. But just one. Having to call in the other heroes every season doesn't add anything but structural problems to the series.

[Doc Rock]

Originally posted by El Goober
Zatanna's getting her own show? All I've heard about was an adult-oriented mini-series or ongoing comic series written by Paul Dini.

Yep. I'm not thrilled with the concept they're using, but hopefully it does better than "AquaTeen".

<<<Doc Rock>>>

[slackermonkey]

Originally posted by Doc Rock
Yep. I'm not thrilled with the concept they're using, but hopefully it does better than "AquaTeen".

<<<Doc Rock>>>

Where'd you find this? Just curious.

[Johnny Depp]

Originally posted by VortexInfinite
Let's face it, as much as we like Aquaman, he doesn't provide anything to the team unless he's near water/under it. You know what he'd be? Gi on Captain Planet. Fat lot of good he does in space.

I am all for Aquaman cameos though.

I am just a toon geek. Not a comic geek. And I never saw the "Zatanna" episode on BTAS, so I don't know any DC characters who should replace J'onn and Shayera right now. Hawkgirl has a LOT of merit as a personallity. She's more down-to-earth (despite her wings) with the other JLers than Diana, more fierce, and much more confrontational. She's been in at least two bar fights already! When was the last time Wonder Woman stepped into a bar?

Really, I won't be satisfied with any replacements for MM and HG this early in the series unless they're Storm from X-Men, Spiderman, or Captain America. Throw in Rogue too, I guess.

Hawkgirl "merit to her personality"/developed??? Are you following Justice League or Justice Society?? I've seen better development from a 13 year old hermaphrodite. They're 23 friggin episodes in and not a Hawkman reference and barely a Thanagar reference that notes any relevant information.

The thing is, can I call you "Vorts", 23 episodes in, Hawkgirl should easily have a soild foundation to base an opinion on, 23, that's plenty. What exactly do you see them doing with her in terms of change to sway our opinion? In every single episode ALL we've seen her do is presumptiously whacks things with her embellished mace, game/set/match, it's not going to change. If you're stimulated by this than you should watch Battlebots on comedy central. The Hawks in general have always been kind of second stringers/redundant, despite her mace's inexplicable destruction? There never was a need for her or Hawkman in JLA mythos, the other characters have always possessed all their abilities ten fold.

Barfights???? That's how you base a characters worth? Let's make Barney Gumble from the Simpsons a member then. Wonder Woman has been to Themiscara ladies nights, after that, what other bar/night life could compare? Free margaritas with a magic lasso, can't beat that. Besides, I don't think Diana is more than 18 or 19 in this.

[Johnny Depp]

Originally posted by Spookmonkey
ehh... I'd rather have Dr. Fate instead of Zantanna. I like hawkgirl if for no other reason than her line to diana about men.. "don't knock em till ya try em" I laughed my ass off when she said that.

I wish people would calm their animation libido down with that comments like that. You act like she's directing that comment at you. Hawkgirl's a heterosexual soooo friggin what!!! I agree with Wonder Woman in that scene, bashing women for being too dependent on men, be it sexually or financially in a sugar daddy sense. Diana was annoyed at how mortal women can't fend for themselves in many situations or act like victims far too often and I can't say I blame her.

[Spookmonkey]

Originally posted by Johnny Depp
I wish people would calm their animation libido down with that comments like that. You act like she's directing that comment at you. Hawkgirl's a heterosexual soooo friggin what!!! I agree with Wonder Woman in that scene, bashing women for being too dependent on men, be it sexually or financially in a sugar daddy sense. Diana was annoyed at how mortal women can't fend for themselves in many situations or act like victims far too often and I can't say I blame her.

No, it has nothing to do with the context of what she said. It's what she said. Don't knock it till ya tried it is pretty much my mantra in life, that and f--- it.

[Spookmonkey]

Originally posted by storm1288
I'll be calm about this but with you cursing people out is not helping. Anyway if this post is directed to me cause I put Aquaman on my dream reserve member list that fine but the only reason I did that cause I think Superman and Aquaman have sort of a keen relationship that Aquaman maybe an alley towards the JL in a episode or two and when did I ever complain about Aquaman not being in the roster??? Never. I'll take Hawkgirl anyday and I'm pleased that Aquaman is finally getting in own series casue Superman and Batman had enough animated spotlight, it's time for some new heroes.

- Storm1288

who's cussing anyone out? I supose I should should have used "whining and complaining" instead of the horrendous B word. No this wasn't really directed at you. I like Aquaman, I think it'd be great have him as much of a member of the team as batman, not really much more than that though. I was talking about everyone who have been yelling out for Aquaman to be added. This threads "rumor" is an offshoot of that. Nothing more. Though I am curious why you thought I was directing what I was saying at you. You post was an offshoot of somebody elses and obviously going into fantasy. No real problem with that. Now if you had started in with THIS IS HOW JL SHOULD BE!!! Then part of my post would have been directed towards you.

[Doc Rock]

Originally posted by El Goober
Where'd you find this? Just curious.

Friends in high-places. I read the treatment.

<<<Doc Rock>>>

[Drachentöter]

Nice to see you apply emotion to your posts. :D

I don't think I ever said her character was developed enough. If I did, I retract that remark because I think we're in agreement that she's the least fleshed out charcter in the series. But from what I've seen of her, she really has some potential for great storylines.

When it comes to abilities she is redundant, but that's always been counterbalanced by her tomboy attitude. Ever since I saw In Blackest Night, I've been getting a better feel for her as a person rather than a superhero. True, her actual fighting lacks originality, but she makes up for it in mental strength.

And yes, the barfights are signficant, because it establishes her as the character with the shortest fuse in the series. She's the unorthodox detective, in some ways more human than John Stewart and Bruce Wayne in that she can be rash, make mistakes, have a hot temper, and be aimable to her friends.

At this point, tossing her before she's finally completely identified serves no purpose. I look forward to your response, but I don't guarantee a comeback. I've pretty much said all I can say.

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Originally posted by DisneyBoy
I doubt it. Sure, if any member of the team is going to be replaced, it would and should be her - since she really has no background and little personality or fame- but the creative team has spent a lot of time defending her inclusion on the show. To suddenly kick her out and replace her with two more well-known members would be a contradiction. It's a rumour.

I see you reasoning, but...Bruce Timm and Co. might be considering the fans...they might not think Hawkgirl is that strong of a character...even if Bruce Timm and the boys think that she is...they might be dropping Hawkgirl so that the ratings will not drop...they want their ratings high and I'm sure they wouldn't want to make episodes that would make the ratings drop. I for one would love to see Aquaman on the team full time...and Zatanna as well.

[Atom Man]

I think that it would be a poor decision to toss out Hawkgirl before she's even been explored yet. Plus, to replace her with Zatanna would be an odd move in my opinion. Zatanna is a character that is slowly gaining popularity with fans, but doesn't have a solidified fan base yet, while Hawkgirl does, even though its somewhat weaker than some of the other characters on the show. Many here are calling for Hawkgirl to be tossed out because she bland, and no one knows anything about her...yet, Zatanna is the same way. To replace Hawkgirl without even making some effort to dive into her story would not be a wise move. At least give Hawkgirl a shot, and if it doesn't work out...then go from there.

Oh yeah, and what's this I'm hearing about Aquaman getting hihs own series? That's sweeet. Are there any sites about this? If so, please let me know.

[DarkLantern]

At least two episodes in Season 2 will give some insight into Hawkgirl's character, one of them will include some more background on Thanagar.

DL

[Nightwing]

I'd like to remind everyone that it's board policy to keep negative emotions and content about opinions out of your posts. So please stay on topic.

All I want is more development for who we have. I think adding people right now would make that a bit harder to do. Ya know, dilute the solution a bit by adding water or something.