Mystery of replaced openings finally explained!

[Arxane]

Hey, everyone. I sent in a long letter to Adult Swim yesterday about the replaced openings, and I got a response explaining. Here's what I got:


Dear Arxane:

Thank you for your e-mail regarding Adult Swim. The Adult Swim show openings were cut down to a format similar to Toonami due to timing. Some of the openings were as long as 2 minutes which caused the block to run over the allotted length.

We hope that you will continue to tune-in to Adult Swim.

Sincerely,

Adult Swim/Cartoon Network

That's it. It was all about timing. You may or may not like this reason, but hey, that's what I got. Either way, let's not ***** about this until Al Gore gets elected president, okay? We've already done that.

If you want me to post the letter I sent in, let me know.

[sl4]

Yes, please do.

I also note that KingKoopa recieved the exact same response from them.

[Arxane]

If this is a repeat thread, then sorry, I didn't see any thread dealing with this topic openly. If KingKoopa told everyone about this, then I didn't see it. Anyway, here's the letter I sent in:


Dear Adult Swim Action,

This has been the second week during which you replaced the original openings of Adult Swim Action shows with Toonami-style openings. While the act itself cannot destroy ASA, it has created an uproar amidst the Adult Swim fanbase and it needs to be explained as soon as possible.

Many of us speculate that replacing the ASA openings with Toonami-like openings is part of the revamping of the Adult Swim blocks that will occur in the near future. However, many of us also feel that this is not the direction ASA needs to be taken. The original openings on ASA are what helped distinguish the block from Toonami, so giving ASA Toonami-like openings have made people believe you are turning ASA into "Toonami Extra". This idea was further pushed when you aired the "Advanced Robotics" video on 10/13.

Please, for all ASA fans everywhere, return the original openings to their ASA shows. What would "Cowboy Bebop" be without its opening "Tank!"? Can you really imagine "Cowboy Bebop" without that signiature song? The same applies to all ASA shows. ASA worked well with the openings, so there's no need to suddenly remove them. But if you are going to remove the openings, then please explain to us as soon as possible why you are doing so. This may not seem like a big deal, but outcry among ASA fans was swift and immediate on all fan-supported boards.

We know you love these shows and wouldn't want to see them edited to ridiculous standards on Toonami. Please help ensure that that is not what fans are thinking. Don't let us down. We believe in you. Don't throw away our trust. If nothing else, then please reply to this email so I may spread the word.

We love ASA; help make sure we don't hate it.

Sincerely
Arxane, a very enthusiastic Adult Swim fan.

[Jude Santos]

so i guess theres no chance that the op will come back then...

[JetMaster5]

Originally posted by Fatal
so i guess theres no chance that the op will come back then...

There's a chance, but it involves some sticks, fire, pitchforks, and thousands of angry people.

[KingKoopa]

Well, if they got enough complaints about it, they'd probably return them. It'd take awhile, but we could probably do it.

NOTE: I don't want a bunch of idiots trying to impress the powers telling us that its not that big a deal, because it is. Maybe not to you, but this IS important to some people.

[SirLemming]

Or maybe certain shorter episodes will get openings.

Thinking back, though, I do remember several nights when Adult Swim went to at least 2:03 AM... And I think Cowboy Bebop's opening is fairly short compared to the rest, right? Or am I completely wrong?

[KingKoopa]

Originally posted by SirLemming
Or maybe certain shorter episodes will get openings.

Thinking back, though, I do remember several nights when Adult Swim went to at least 2:03 AM... And I think Cowboy Bebop's opening is fairly short compared to the rest, right? Or am I completely wrong? Same length.

They removed Inu-Yasha, Gundam 0083, and Outlaw Star's OPs because they were the only ones they COULD remove. Yu Yu Hakuhsho's and Cowboy Bebop's are attached to the episode itself, so the only way to get around airing the OP is to not air the whole episode.

[sl4]

Yes, I remember that my VCR timer ended up cutting off the end of Cowboy Funk a few weeks ago because something before it (probably Inuyasha) was a few minutes longer than usual. :(

Oh well, now I tape Adult Swim Action in full, instead of just the first three shows, and I make sure to give my timer some leway (sp?) at the end of the block, so that I don't end up losing anything. :p

[Jeff Harris]

You know what's funny (or not so funny)?

This is actually the first time they told the truth about WHY they cut it down. Over the years, the folks at Toonami (many of which are now oversee Adult Swim) have given us this official excuse:


Toonami Chat on AOL, October, 1999
"They aren't fresh after so many years. We wanted to liven the shows up. Plus you've seen the old opens a million times."

In 1999, it seemed like a good excuse. Then came Gundam Wing, Tenchi, and a whole mess of shows. That excuse about "seeing the old opens a million times" wasn't cutting it anymore. It's about time they told the truth.

But still, it chafes a bit, you know? I mean, like you guys and gals said, some shows have their whole openings intact while others don't. Same thing over there at DBZami, grrr, Toonami, but I guess that's business.

[dino boy]

Many of us speculate that replacing the ASA openings with Toonami-like openings is part of the revamping of the Adult Swim blocks that will occur in the near future. However, many of us also feel that this is not the direction ASA needs to be taken. The original openings on ASA are what helped distinguish the block from Toonami, so giving ASA Toonami-like openings have made people believe you are turning ASA into "Toonami Extra". This idea was further pushed when you aired the "Advanced Robotics" video on 10/13.

You're not supposed to start a sentence with the word "however."

(just kidding)

[Killtacular]

Timing makes sense, if you think about it.

I now know WHY they made this decision, and why 0080 is replacing 0083.

GUNDAM 0083 #13: A Storm Raging Through.

I knew when it aired, that it would cause trouble. The episode was about 30 minutes in length, due to the fact that it was an OVA, when TV shows are supposed to be 22 minutes, to fit 8 minutes of advertisements. Williams Street wasn't kidding when they said they restored edits. They restored time cuts.

And so, that particular episode ran from 12:30 to 1:05 AM.

This meant that 8 MINUTES OF ADVERTISEMENTS WERE NOT AIRED.

So now do you understand why advertisers would be pissed?

They have a RIGHT to be pissed!

They paid for ad time that didn't show up!



And that's why CN had to make the decision. Because they went a little too far beyond the call of duty to please the fans, and it backfired.

But PLEASE remember that, above all else, the one thing that makes an adult show an adult show is the SHOW ITSELF, opening or no opening.

And Williams Street and the other distributors are DEDICATED to bringing you the shows with as little, if any, editting as possible. Please believe me when I say this. I'm telling the truth. I'm not "making an assumption."

But anyway, thanks for telling us, arxane. In a perfect world, this would satisfy people. But it won't.

[Killtacular]

I should also stress that if advertisers are the case, CN has no choice in doing this.

It's not like they WANT to do this.

But if they continued to air the openings, they would lose their advertisers, and ADULT SWIM ACTION WOULD BE TERMINATED.

Now, you're probably thinking:

"But Matt! They aired Advanced Robotics! And a Baby Sampson interstital!"


That's not the point.

Regardless of whether there's an interstital or not, the shows HAVE to fit within 22 minutes.

CN would rather air a show and end up having time to air an interstital, than air an opening, and run overtime and lose an advertiser.

[Dogasu]

Hmmm...well, I guess the explanation makes sense. I'm not happy about it at all, but I guess this will have to do. I still don't see why all three have to go--couldn't at least one of the openings that were cut (I'm thinking Inu-Yasha's, since that's the newest show) made it through? Do they need the time that IY's OP takes up THAT much?


I knew when it aired, that it would cause trouble. The episode was about 30 minutes in length, due to the fact that it was an OVA, when TV shows are supposed to be 22 minutes, to fit 8 minutes of advertisements. Williams Street wasn't kidding when they said they restored edits. They restored time cuts.

And so, that particular episode ran from 12:30 to 1:05 AM.

Toonami has done the same thing and found ways around it. Remember the two Tenchi Muyo episodes that they let run over? On those days (I think the show aired at 6pm those days), they would play the long Tenchi episode, and then have a little short or something fill up the remaining 20 minutes or so. They wouldn't try to air the next show, knowing it would run over. They did the same thing with Blue Sub #6 when that premiered (when it came on Monday-Thursday) and other irreugularly-lenghthed shows.

Couldn't they do that with Adult Swim Action? The only time that the openings *really* cause time issues are when they let the episodes run over (and if it happens any other time, they could cut only one of the openings), and for those cases I don't see why they just don't air an Adult Swim special or some old school Hanna Barbera cartoon that older folks would enjoy. I don't think anyone would be *too* upset if they didn't show an Outlaw Star rerun one night because of ad time. Adult Swim Action would fit within its 3-hour allotted time and fans wouldn't be upset over their lost openings. An easy way to please everyone.

[Arxane]

I'm guessing with Adult Swim, they really don't have anything to add as "filler" like with Toonami, which is far more flexible. And if they showed Hanna Barbera on Adult Swim, I can already hear the people saying "What the hell? They showed a kid's show on Adult Swim!" I think nostalgia is the last thing AS is trying to go for.

Either way, I'm just glad they made this decision not because they were dissing their fans but because they cared about them too much.

[Killtacular]

Toonami has done the same thing and found ways around it. Remember the two Tenchi Muyo episodes that they let run over? On those days (I think the show aired at 6pm those days), they would play the long Tenchi episode, and then have a little short or something fill up the remaining 20 minutes or so. They wouldn't try to air the next show, knowing it would run over. They did the same thing with Blue Sub #6 when that premiered (when it came on Monday-Thursday) and other irreugularly-lenghthed shows.

Couldn't they do that with Adult Swim Action?

No.

Tenchi Muyo's episodes were 45 minutes. This gave them time to fit an episode of Powerpuff Girls, or whathaveyou.

When the 45 minute episode of Tenchi Muyo aired on Adult Swim, I believe they just aired more commercials and interstitals, since they had nothing to fill the remaining 11 minutes with.

And that's when you have 11 minutes remaining.

0083's episode ran long, but as I said, it ended at 1:05, not 1:15.

This would mean AS would have to fill 25 minutes of time. And considering they only have so many interstitals to fill, that would mean a WHOOOOOOLE lot of commercials.


The only time that the openings *really* cause time issues are when they let the episodes run over (and if it happens any other time, they could cut only one of the openings),

And that's why they're being removed. They can't remove it for just one episode. I wonder if the process is automated.. cause usually very few people are working there on the weekend, unless it's to work on the website.

So if they remove it for one episode, they remove it for all episodes.


and for those cases I don't see why they just don't air an Adult Swim special or some old school Hanna Barbera cartoon that older folks would enjoy. I don't think anyone would be *too* upset if they didn't show an Outlaw Star rerun one night because of ad time. Adult Swim Action would fit within its 3-hour allotted time and fans wouldn't be upset over their lost openings. An easy way to please everyone.

An old-school Hanna Barbera cartoon would not please everyone.

Hell, noone was happy with Baby Sampson and Goliath!

Besides, there's Boomerang and BoomerAction on weekdays now. So.. so much for that theory.

[Dogasu]

Tenchi Muyo's episodes were 45 minutes. This gave them time to fit an episode of Powerpuff Girls, or whathaveyou.

When the 45 minute episode of Tenchi Muyo aired on Adult Swim, I believe they just aired more commercials and interstitals, since they had nothing to fill the remaining 11 minutes with.

And that's when you have 11 minutes remaining.

0083's episode ran long, but as I said, it ended at 1:05, not 1:15.

This would mean AS would have to fill 25 minutes of time. And considering they only have so many interstitals to fill, that would mean a WHOOOOOOLE lot of commercials.

Still, they could air one (or even two) of the HB shorts in that time instead of running over. They could play something that was made into an Adult Swim Comedy series, like the old Space Ghost, Sealab, or Birdman cartoons. I think people would get a kick to see how different their favorite characters were back in the 60's/70's.

Or hey, they could just stop airing OVA's, which AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE ON TV IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!


And that's why they're being removed. They can't remove it for just one episode. I wonder if the process is automated.. cause usually very few people are working there on the weekend, unless it's to work on the website.

Why not?

I'm not saying that I don't accept their decision or that I'm going to stop watching ASA because of the missing openings. I'm just saying that there are better ways that they could have done it, ways that would have made everybody happy. Instead, I feel that CN took the easiest way out, and as a result they made a bunch of people angry.

[Achika]

Personally this sounds like garbage.

How could they not know that the last episode of 0083 ran for 30 minutes? Are they saying they don't know what they're putting on the air?

Of course not. So why didn't CN make the proper schedule adjustments that night to fit in a few extra commercials?

And why will the openings still be gone two weeks and probably forever after that 0083 episode was run?

I suppose 0080 will be the Toonami version and have no intros. Why? Because the uncut version with intros and everything are 30 minutes an episode. Even so the cuts weren't that major so the episodes will still last longer then the average 22-25 minute show.

Intros are lost now and forever because of one mere episode of one show which is being replaced by a show with episodes just as long to try and justify this.

Hopefully all of the intros will return once the block is tv series only with no time consuming OVA's.

[Conan-san]

i don't care for adds that much, Pause button foder more that anything else...

[Supernovametalstar]

Originally posted by Conan-san
i don't care for adds that much, Pause button foder more that anything else...

I don't care for ads either, since I rarely see any that make me want to buy their products. But I do understand their purpose, nay, need in business. Working on the university newspaper, I see that ads are the first thing to get placed on the layout. The editors scramble to find ways to cut stories in order to fit on the page. Why? Because ads pay for the paper to get printed. We need them (even if we don't like them :D ).

Here's a solution that could please some people (pleasing all the people is impossible). This ideas has been brought up before, and partially fulfilled this past summer on the Midnight Run. Why not have a special that shows the cut openings? It could run in place of a Superman episode, or Armada (we all know how we feel about that show). A one time deal. Or something to use if there is time to fill because of a long episode. Just a thought. Hey, WS gave us the Special Edition once before, why not do it again?

[etj4eagle]

Well the timing explanation (while I might not like it) is very reasonable. It is a simple fact that they have to air X amount of minutes per every half hour (and by a certain time as well, hence why the commercial break sometimes comes before the original location). There might even be an additional requirement with this being an "adult" block to keep the shows more to the time schedule than toonami (a Toonami show can often start as early as 3-5 minutes before time).

The result is that some part of the show has to go. (And aren't Japanese Anime designed around a shorter commercial break as well?). Couple this with Anime Intro's tending to be fairly lengthy items and it only makes sense that they chop the opening. In fact I would be more upset if they decided to leave on opening and do time cuts elsewhere in the episode. Episode time cuts are much less expandable than the opening.

We may not like it, but the advertisers are the customers for CN. We only matter in terms of selling time to them. If you want less time cuts and hence get the opening back you'll need to convince the advertisors that they should be willing to pay more to advertise on a block with reduced commercial time. (And letter writing campaigns that include the advertisers are more effective than ones that just include the networks. Since you are letting them know that they are spending their money succesfully).

[Zero Angel]

it has been said that those people in charge of Toonami and now ASA are in fact anime fans. this is why they have made some efforts in staying away from series that would be hacked to peices to fit into the Toonami block (remembering an interview where they were questioned on Eva's possible appearence on Toonami). all in all though...it really doesnt matter if they themselves are anime fans or not for this issue. this is buisness pure and simple here. but the thing i want to know is, why are they avoiding the question at hand? it may just be that the letter sent back to ax was a mass produced letter to calm the masses about the removed openings, hell...they didnt even respond to his commentary about this block of animation becoming something akin to a Toonami block.

continueing. how many shows on Toonami get the openings removed? just a curiousity here...is advertising on this block really that important? before i get myself flamed here by those that would have degrees in programming or article placement yes i do know the importance of generating money through means of advertising but has anyone seen an ad on ASA that has yet to have importance to us as viewers? i mean...if this is a block designed to grab people who want mature animated programming then shouldnt their be advertising for things like an animation club where you can purchase anime geared toward a more adult audience? (as previously seen on Sci Fi) shouldnt we have commercials for movies like Red Dragon? shouldnt we be seeing ads for games like RLH. just some curiousities is all...i suppose you could run those 1800Call Att comercials or Madam Cleo or whatnot...it just seems a little silly is all.

[Arxane]

If I had to guess, they may have gotten countless emails about this incident and had no choice but to write a mass-produced response. Yes, I would've liked a more in-depth reply, but that's just not possible. I just happened to be the first one to share my reply with everyone here.

And you're right: whether or not they're anime fans, Adult Swim is still a business. And yes, advertising is that important. Cartoon Network needs that revenue to support its shows all the time, not just part of the time. These ads may seem useless to us, but I'm sure they have an audience somewhere. I'm sure somewhere out there someone noticed the bus ad while watching Adult Swim and took advantage of whatever they offered. Ads are just a necessary evil, simply put.

Also, as I recall, they have done some commericials geared to more adult audiences. I remember specifically the "Goldmember" movie ad as well as a couple of mature anime movies like "Jin-Roh" and "Char's Counterattack". Either way, also remember that many of these adults have families, and they may see something that'll interest a family member.

Just a note: I have no experience in advertising; this is all guessing. :D

[tlsmith1963]

A lot of these series are out on DVD (although I think Inu-Yasha has yet to come out), so I don't mind about the changed openings. People can always see the real openings on the DVDs.

Then again, I love that Cowboy Bebop opening. At least they aren't touching it.

Tammy

[Killtacular]

shouldnt we have commercials for movies like Red Dragon? shouldnt we be seeing ads for games like RLH.

Advertisements for R-rated movies and M-rated games weren't legally allowed to air on Cartoon Network due to the "children's network" label the S&P gave it.

[VinceA]

I seem to remember ads for Jin-Roh & Char's Counterattack on DVD showing up on ASA just prior to their release. Those ads seem be be rather targeted toward the ASA demographic. There aren't all that many advertisers for anime related products that have the budget for a commercial on CN (even at the hours ASA is on)

[Isondill]

Originally posted by VinceA
I seem to remember ads for Jin-Roh & Char's Counterattack on DVD showing up on ASA just prior to their release. Those ads seem be be rather targeted toward the ASA demographic. There aren't all that many advertisers for anime related products that have the budget for a commercial on CN (even at the hours ASA is on)

They advertised for the Escaflowne Movie too, but only Jin-Roh is rated R. :p

[Killtacular]

I'm fairly sure Jin-Roh is not rated R. Otherwise the commercial would not have aired.

[Artemis]

Jin-Roh is rated PG-13. Nothing in the movie warrants an R.

[Andrew]

Oddly enough, Jin-roh isn't rated. The MPAA has no listing for it, and neither the IMDB nor the official site have any mention of a rating (other than 13&UP for the home video release).

I thought movies were required to get a rating through the MPAA in order to be shown in theaters, but I guess not. :confused:

[Killtacular]

How could they not know that the last episode of 0083 ran for 30 minutes? Are they saying they don't know what they're putting on the air?

Of course not. So why didn't CN make the proper schedule adjustments that night to fit in a few extra commercials?

Because WS made the changes to that episode, not CN.

Williams Street was NOT PAID to put the edits back in, so Cartoon Network probably had no idea that it was that long, because Williams Street had fixed it on their own time.

And like I said, I doubt there's anyone working there that late on Saturday night, so they wouldn't have much control over it.

[Beat]

So the stupid ads mean Toonami style openings stay. There have to be other AS shorts that you can use.

[Killtacular]

Well.. Escalator Danger Squad is.... KINDA...action-y.

[John Miles]

Quit your whining, people. It's either they remove the openings, or they make cuts and/or time compress episodes to make it work. And no one wants to see that.

[Masamune2052]

OR , we could just get rid of the Sims pet commercials or perhaps the Usher Twix commercials.

[John Miles]

Originally posted by Masamune2052
OR , we could just get rid of the Sims pet commercials or perhaps the Usher Twix commercials.

It's not quite that simple. Cartoon Network can't just get rid of commercials that they're obligated to show. And showing less commercials means less money and support for Adult Swim, which is a bad thing.

[DarkMaster]

it's an excite if you search the laws.

[JetMaster5]

Originally posted by Supernovametalstar
Here's a solution that could please some people (pleasing all the people is impossible). This ideas has been brought up before, and partially fulfilled this past summer on the Midnight Run. Why not have a special that shows the cut openings? It could run in place of a Superman episode, or Armada (we all know how we feel about that show). A one time deal. Or something to use if there is time to fill because of a long episode. Just a thought. Hey, WS gave us the Special Edition once before, why not do it again?

Yes, that's a good idea. But who would sponser it? After all, the whole edition is nothing but openings. Foreign openings. Who'd want to advertise in that?

Anyhow, I'm (sorta) pleased with WS's reply, yet I didn't understand. At least Matt was able to point things out, so I'm satisfied. If it came to the decision of either chopping the openings or chopping the episodes, then I'll take openings. Still, why not chopped the endings? WS could make a short ending with tons of credits rolling. It'd be fine. The openings and the episode would stay intact, and the ending would go.







Now I'm wondering how Escaflowne would be if it came to ASA. After all, they're chopping down one of the greatest openings and endings of all anime and replacing it with a Toonami-style that's so inferior, it's not even funny.

[Karl Olson]

personally, I'm satisfied with this answer. If getting TV14/TVPG anime means some no OPs, then fine, no OPs. I'd like to see something different that toonami-styles OPs if possible (maybe a clip montage still, but to it the original music in shortened form), but if Toonami-eque OP is what we get, then I'll live with it. I simply wouldn't have seen most of the shows run on ASA, if it weren't for ASA.

[Maphmaa]

So, we're never going to see anymore openings period? Or are they just not airing really long ones?

[John Miles]

They seem to be keeping Cowboy Bebop's and YuYu's openings for the time being. If they cut Tank!, then I'll be pissed.

[J.C.]

This sounds good to me. Going to miss the openings, but would rather loose them then have the shows edited more then they'd have to.

[Killtacular]

Shows that are designed to fit 22 minutes, including the intro, will not have their OPs removed.

Shows that have OPs that go over 90 seconds will likely have their OPs removed.

Shows with OPs that are under 90 seconds, but, when combined with the episode, total more than 22 minutes, will have their OPS removed.

Cowboy Bebop is designed to fit 22 minutes, including the intro. Another reason why its OP wasn't removed was because CN would have to go into every tape and delete the opening, which would take more time than it's worth for a show that already fits. Unfortunately, they DO have a montage intro, if you remember the Cowboy Bebop marathon, but it seems more likely that Tank! is "gonna keep on knockin".

Yu Yu Hakusho's current episodes all fit 22 minutes with the intro. However, if upcoming episodes DON'T, CN has a montage-clip intro of Yu Yu to air. You may remember it from the Yu Yu Hakusho marathon.

Inuyasha's intro is under 90 seconds. However, with the intro, the episodes could possibly go over the limit. Because of this, and the fact that the OP was detached from the episode tapes, it was easily removed.

Gundam 0083 is a flagrant offender of episodes that go over 22 minutes, due to it being an OVA, and removing the OP was probably their highest priority.

Mobile Suit Gundam gets to keep its OP, because each episode fits 22 minutes.

Outlaw Star's intro, like Inuyasha's, pushes certain episodes past the 22 minute mark, and the tape was detached already, so it was another easy pull.

As for the future?

The Big O is being prepared for both Japanese and American audiences. That means two things.

- Cartoon Network, having paid for the production, therefore paid for the introduction sequence, and will most surely air something that they paid for.

- The Big O's episodes, prepared for both audiences, will all fit in 22 minutes.

Ghost in the Shell: SAC is a mystery right now. I don't know how long the standard episode is. Two likely scenarios will occur.

- The OPs will air before every episode.

OR

- The OP will air before the first episode, and from then on will be montage introductions.


Gundam 0080 is an OVA, so it will surely use its Toonami intro. However, there is, again, the possibility that they'll air the OP in front of the first episode, as an act of kindness. Don't hold your breath though, since most episodes go over the limit when the intro is attached.

To summarize:

WITH OPENINGS

Cowboy Bebop
Yu Yu Hakusho
The Big O

TENTATIVE

Ghost in the Shell: SAC

WITHOUT OPENINGS

Gundam 0083
Gundam 0080
Inuyasha

[KingKoopa]

Matt, Inu-Yasha is a TV series in Japan. That means EVERY episode is at 22 minutes combined. My guess is that they just have to get rid of it because of Gundam 0083's time difference. If we're lucky, they may restore it when Gundam 0083 leaves. Yu Yu Hakusho was another TV series, and I'm pretty sure it'll keep its as well. Even if it goes over, FUNi shortens the credits that likely makes up for it. Ghost in the Shell I'm not sure about as well.

Also, Gundam 0080's OP is built into the first episode. I'm pretty confident it'll air once and then be gone.

[William C. Maune]

" CN would rather air a show and end up having time to air an interstital, than air an opening, and run overtime and lose an advertiser."

[indent]This reminded me of something. One idea that has been brought up on the Toonami board before was to use the openings as interstitals. I wonder if Williams St. has ever thought of this or if it would even be possible.

[Killtacular]

That would be interesting, although they'd have to remove the credits from them or something, and make it appear like a music video.

I dunno about you though, but I don't want to hear 0083's "The Winner" as a Prime Cut anytime soon. :p

[Ikwig]

Well, all I can say is "thank you, arxane, for posting your response so that at least we know (approximately :D ) what's going on."

I'm still not happy about the openings going missing, but at least between arxane's e-mail and Matt's explanations I now feel like a have a clue about it. As long as I'm informed I can deal! :)

And I like the idea of airing the openings as interstitials - certainly better than getting Toonami videos! :p

[Andrew]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
Ghost in the Shell: SAC is a mystery right now. I don't know how long the standard episode is.

Appears to be about 25 minutes per episode (with opening and ending), give or take half a minute. Opening is precisely 90 seconds.

[SirLemming]

Uh-oh...

[Lord Trunks]

Well I am gald we have the reason why the titles were cut, be glad though during each show we only have to deal with one commercial break and not two or three like on some other Networks, One thing I have learned in my life is that you cannot fight Television networks(or big corporations for that matter) I tried with many Angry citizens in My city to get out local Newspaper to print a smaller T.V. Guide which showed listings for all Channels in the Area for all times of the day instead of a big guide that always falls apart and doesn't have listings for the whole day. to sum it Up trying to get one of the Newspapers owned by the New York times to listen to you and get a response other than the "we are sorry that..." response doesn't work, and it most likely won't work Against CTN even with a big petition

[KingKoopa]

Originally posted by Andrew
Appears to be about 25 minutes per episode (with opening and ending), give or take half a minute. Opening is precisely 90 seconds. CRAP.

The OP is as good as gone.

[G1Ravage]

Originally posted by Matt Wilson
That would be interesting, although they'd have to remove the credits from them or something, and make it appear like a music video.

I dunno about you though, but I don't want to hear 0083's "The Winner" as a Prime Cut anytime soon. :p

IIRC, at one point many years ago, CN aired the Japanese version of the Speed Racer opening during commercial breaks. With subtitles and everything.

[Exatron]

It is nice to know why the openings were cut, but removing them from nearly every series because of one episode from what was originally an OAV is going a bit far. What's supposed to be so frelling sacred about twenty-two minutes? Shows run over and under that limit all the time. Cartoon Network's starting times fluctuate by about a minute (I've seen a difference of about two or three on occasion) from day to day because of it.

And don't assume that Williams Street won't remove the openings from an episode simply because it's on the same tape. They did it to ReBoot and eventually Batman the Animated Series.

[etj4eagle]

Originally posted by Exatron
It is nice to know why the openings were cut, but removing them from nearly every series because of one episode from what was originally an OAV is going a bit far. What's supposed to be so frelling sacred about twenty-two minutes? Shows run over and under that limit all the time. Cartoon Network's starting times fluctuate by about a minute (I've seen a difference of about two or three on occasion) from day to day because of it.

What is sacred about 22 minutes is that there needs to X minutes of commercial time (which is slighly less than 8 due to CN using so much of it). You have to get that commercial time in no matter what and only after that can you fit in the rest of the episode.

I am not sure what CN's standards are for holding to the exact start and stop times. However, I have a feeling that Toonami might be allowed to be looser than Adult Swim (since the latter is being targetted to adult audiences who expect the network to be able to get their watch right).

The simple result is that when you look at a show and it has episodes that run over 22 minutes, you have to cut someplace. Otherwise you don't get your required commercial time and don't satisfy your customers. We are NOT the customers of CN network. The advertisers are their customers, we are only secondary customers.

OVA shows not being made for TV are not going to fit into that 22 minute time. Hence OVA shows you can expect to require time cuts. That is why an OVA show will likely never have its opening. (the only exception being if it fits into a 2 show time slot with a short or not too many extra commercials).

If you want openings your best bet is a letter writing campaign targetting advertisers, telling them that you will look at their products more highly if they support ASA shows with no time cuts. This also works for getting better commercials on that block as well (tell companies of products that you would actually buy that they should advertise here).

[Mynd Hed]

This is true, although there's one other place that CN could cut time from if a show goes over 22 minutes that I don't think anyone has mentioned: CN's own advertisements for other CN shows.

[Killtacular]

You act as if self-promotion ads are free.

They're not.

CN is essentially paying themselves for ads of their own shows. It's tricky to describe. But just know that CN misses out on money whenever they air their own ads, but they still feel it's important to promote other shows on the network.

Mostly because they want to connect the 18-34 pipeline into shows like He-Man, Transformers, CN Primetime. Stuff that adults would like to watch, even if it's with their children or whathaveyou.

[Conan-san]

well, in the uk. we have a format that is
Part 1, Ad break, Part 2.

I dunno if its any diffrent in the us (the dub of yu-gi-oh is pointing in that direction)

Rightly enough they have cut the (lucshire) Opening for Tenchi in favor of the first 4 minutes of the episode that are before the ep title on CNX. (All the Uk toonami showings have had the same opening for all 3 series (Oav, Universe and In tokyo) and have skiped the first part of the show and whent stright to the Episode title.

[Master Moron]

Here's what my e-mail looks like


Dar Andrew:

Thank you for your e-mail regarding Adult Swim. The Adult Swim show openings were cut down to a format similar to Toonami due to timing. Some of the openings were as long as 2 minutes which caused the block to run over the allotted length.

We hope that despite this change, you will continue to tune-in to Adult Swim.

Sincerely,

Adult Swim/Cartoon Network

Notice that in the e-mail I recieved dear is mispelled and in the last line they say "despite this change". this is different than everyone elses e-mail. So, someone actually had to write these out to everyone. Either that, or they have more than one mass produced responses.

Anyway, if the openings were cut due to the length of Gundam 0083, does that mean that they could come back when Big-O and Ghost and the Shell join the block? That way all the shows will be TV length. I think someone already mentioned this actually...

Also, I do recall that when Tenchi went over sometimes they showed a Powerpuff Girls cartoon for 15 minutes since there wasn't enough time to air Superman.

Also, someone already mentioned that they could cut out the openings of Bebop and Yu Yu Hakusho if they wanted to. Who knows, they may even request that Funimation gives them openless versions of the new episodes of Yu Yu Hakusho.

[KingKoopa]

Moron, I got that version of the email, except Dear was spelled correctly.

Cartoon Network legally can't alter the tapes FUNi gave them. Its all part of copyright laws and such. Maybe they could with permission, I dunno. But CN has no reason to get YYH's OP cut, because the ED is already shortened. Maybe to make it all the same, but I doubt they will.

There's a SLIGHT possibility they'll return after 0083 leaves. But, I gotta doubt it. They don't have a reason to cut IY's OP anyway, as OLS's and 0083's more than make up for the time difference. I really don't know how it'll be.

[etj4eagle]

Originally posted by Mynd Hed
This is true, although there's one other place that CN could cut time from if a show goes over 22 minutes that I don't think anyone has mentioned: CN's own advertisements for other CN shows.

That is actually probably a fair bit more difficult for you to rise and probably not in ASA's budget either. Since first of all allocating of commercial space and setting up the tapes for the shows would be in different departments. However, aside from that there is teh issue of paying for that add time. When ever CN runs a self promotion commercial, they charge themselves for that add. And hence should an ASA run 1 minute long, then the ASA budget would have to be charged for 1 minute of commercial time. One of the basic ideas of corporate finance is accurately reflecting and charging internal divisions the lease/use rate of resources.

Therefore the net result of taking out commercial time is to decrease ASA's budget for acquiring new shows. And this is irrespective of whether or not the loss commercial time was going to be used by an outside advertiser or an internal CN one. It makes no difference.

[bassist]

Maybe we should just move to the Swiss system: All the commercials at once. People actually gather around for commercials due to the fact that they're shown so rarely. Instead of breaking up a show, the commercials are shown right before and right after. It's kind of nice. Then again, 15 minutes of commercials every hour is kind of apalling...

-Big Ben

[sl4]

Hmm, that would actually be pretty cool, and it would make the commercials easier to avoid as well. :)

[Killtacular]

it would make the commercials easier to avoid as well.

Yeah, I'm sure the advertisers would LOVE that. :rolleyes:

[sl4]

It's a joke, dude. ;)

[Space Cadet]

How long are the episodes for Gundam 0080?

[Beat]

About half and hour.

[KingKoopa]

Gundam 0080's Toonami edit will most likely air, so it should keep AS in the time limit. If the OPs don't return on November 16, they probably never will.

[Ran-san]

Originally posted by Andrew
Appears to be about 25 minutes per episode (with opening and ending), give or take half a minute. Opening is precisely 90 seconds.

That would put it on par with Inu-yasha. Each IY episode, with openings, ending and omake runs 24:54. Omake is about 30 seconds, so that leaves IY at 24 1/2 minutes. You take out the opening, and it has 22 minutes on the mark.

Baaah....

[Orange Star]

Originally posted by Achika
I suppose 0080 will be the Toonami version and have no intros. Why? Because the uncut version with intros and everything are 30 minutes an episode. Even so the cuts weren't that major so the episodes will still last longer then the average 22-25 minute show.

If this has been said before, sorry, but Episode 1 of Gundam 0080 WON'T (I'm not sure, but I think the odds of the title NOT being dropped for the first episode is about 85 percent) have the intro cut, for that the intro is FIVE MINUTES into the episode, and introduces the setting of Gundam 0080:

Side 6: Riah Colony

Sides, if you cut out the first five minutes, you lose...

...a very important battle sequence.

[Batlhasar]

The Cut must be for commercials.
They probably lost advertisers previous weeks.

Thats Why they ran those ******* annoying Fruit Juce gum and the STUPID " I BILIEVE I'M GOING TO GAG " commercials 2 time each each break.

No wonder why those commercials ran so much those weeks. AS had no other supporters. Well now With "New Version 8.0" we'll be seeing and onslaught of gay(forgive my language) ass aol comercials with upseessed aol morons talking bout how great aol is.

[talibancity]

Do yall remember back when ASA was started back on February 23th, they had like 2 commercials, and that was it. No music videos or anything like that, it was usually an AOL commercial (which owns CN) and some real advertiser, and that was it. The breaks during the shows were like 1 1/2 minutes. Of course after the show they would show like 3-4 minutes of commercials. That was the good ole days. I think should go back to that. This is anime we're talking about. Anime is traditionally longer than American shows. I mean, CN is owned by a multi-billion dollar company, who isn't about to go out of business. We're talking about 3 hours on a Saturday night when most ppl are asleep anyways. CN ain't gonna lose any sleep over getting rid of 1 or 2 ads to save some viewers happiness. Or they should do what TBS does and have the show blocks run for 35 minutes. For instance, Inu Yasha would go 11-11:35. So that way we can have our intro and CN would have its advertisers. And we lose one show, Outlaw Star, that's been around the block many times before.

[Killtacular]

TBS does NOT have 35 minute blocks. Their blocks ALL start at :05 past the hour, so it's :05-:35-:05. It's STILL 30 minutes.

CN being owned by a multi-million dollar company means NOTHING by the way. If CN had to pay WB to get their shows on ASC, then no way in hell will WB "help CN out" with the very same block.