2 Fleischer Studio Questions for Jerry Beck

[Nelson]

Jerry, if your latest collection of technicolor Fleischer "Somewhere In Dreamland" sells really well on the video market, would there be a second compilation of Fleischer cartoons on video or dvd, let's say ummm the earliest (before Betty Boop) b&w "Talkartoons"? I can easily say that this would be one Fleischer series that fans would really want to see on video.

And a couple of years ago, I heard that Max's son Richard Fleischer was going to take matters into his own hands on his late father's animated work and try to get them released on video, since Republic has not done anything else with the other Fleischer library cartoons.Any truth to that rumor Jerry?

Thanks!

[Jerry Beck]

My good friend Nelson,

1. The only thing that could happen if SOMEWHERE IN DREAMLAND sells really well is a sequel involving all the P.D. Noveltoons of the 1940s. I was hired by producer KIT PARKER, and his collection of P.D. films was the basis for this collection and any future VCI releases. He has a very good collection of 35mm 1940s NOVELTOONS I'd love to get my hands on. Many have been released on video, but some have never been. If we were to do that project, ALL prints would be from 35mm with original titles!
The success of SOMEWHERE IN DREAMLAND has no effect on the possible DVD release of other Fleischer b/w cartoon collections, because Republic owns those films and has no interest in releasing any of them. This was an independent production. It has nothing to do with "what fans would really want to see". It has to do with who owns what. Cross your fingers that the Supreme Court overturns the Sonny Bono Copyright extenstion in October. If so, it would allow hundreds of 1930s cartoons locked up in studio vaults to become P.D. and become available in the next 10 years.

2. It's true Richard Fleischer is taking matters into his own hands about licensing, merchandising and new production involving Fleischer Studio properties. However, like the rest of us, he has had no luck convincing the idiots at Republic/Artisan to release their classic cartoons. I'm going to name names: The villian here is the head of Artisan Home Entertainment: Glen Ross. I met this guy ten years ago when he was head of sales at Republic Home Video. I was brought in to put together the Betty Boop collection (by a great guy, Robert Sigmund, who was the President of Republic Entertainment at the time - he's no longer there). I asked Ross why they don't put out the great animation library they owned. He looked at me as if I were an idiot, and said something about how the collection was all public domain and that they were all out there on the market already - in crappy public domain videos.
I told him that that wasn't true, and even it were Republic had the master materials - and the collectors would snap them up regardless. He was totally against THE DEFINITIVE BETTY BOOP.
I got the last laugh - THE DEFINITIVE BETTY BOOP was a big hit for Republic. Unfortunetly it was too late - Republic downsized, Sigmund was let go (Ross too), and Artisan took over the distribution of Republic's library. Ross got the job as Sales President at Artisan and now has his way - no cartoons. What a bozo (no offense to our CN friend bozo). Had Sigmund remained at Republic, Screen Songs & Puppetoons were next!
Oh well, back to the drawing board, or inkwell.

[Matthew Hunter]

I just don't understand the philosophy some of these people have. They're sitting on gold mines with some of these cartoons that have been written about in books for years that people are anxious to see. People go look for cartoons, be they Warner Bros., MGM, Fleischer, Lantz, etc., and are surprised to find that NOBODY has them on video, not because stores won't sell them but because they're out of print or unreleased period. And Warner Bros. Studio Stores seemed to have the same problem...I asked one time before my local one closed if they had any older LT videos that weren't on display for sale (they used to have lots of the movie title parody collections). This was about the time "High Flying adventure" and "Pokemon" were their big sellers, and they told me that yes, they had some of those older tapes, but they had been instructed to remove them from the shelves and never sell them again. Period. And when was the last time you saw a Walter Lantz video collection available to the general public? Betty Boop is rare these days, Bosko, though mostly public domain, is nonexistant, and that legal dispute with King Feature and Turner/Warner keeps Popeye at bay. because of the bad reputation PD videos get the stores often just order them at random and throw them in the bottom of a bargain bin.

It's sad, really...a culture that supposedly had a euphoric love for cartoons and other film shorts in the 40's and 50's and a resurgance in the 80's now abhors them...which I suppose would not be so bad were they not so culturally significant. How many live action comedy directors of today have been influenced by Chuck Jones, or modern animators by Bob Clampett or William Hanna and Joe Barbera? Why does a certain sailor man appear on the spinach bag? And imagine how many people could learn from those forgotten silent and black and white cartoons that no TV station will touch....sure they're not colorful, but the timing in what I've seen of the Columbia, Warner Bros., and miscellaneuous other stuff is impeccable....how the drawing can be times to music so well is amazing...modern artists don't seem to even attempt it, maybe just because they've never seen it. If we erase the cartoons of the past, and if we only study fads like anime or grossout cartoons, where are new creative talents going to find resources? Chuck Jones learned from such resources as the early Disney and Iwerks films and the Chaplin comedies, and I believe he mentions the Columbia Fox and Crow cartoons as part of the inspiration for wile E. Coyote....Heck, without some of you guys I wouldn't have been able to see thopse characters. It's a shame.

-Matthew

[Greg Method]

Originally posted by Matthew Hunter
And Warner Bros. Studio Stores seemed to have the same problem...I asked one time before my local one closed if they had any older LT videos that weren't on display for sale (they used to have lots of the movie title parody collections). This was about the time "High Flying adventure" and "Pokemon" were their big sellers, and they told me that yes, they had some of those older tapes, but they had been instructed to remove them from the shelves and never sell them again. Period.

I'm pretty sure whoever told you that didn't mean it like "We're not allowed to sell these videos." Often the Studio Stores had to send products out to their outlet stores, and usually videos were on the list. Most likely they were just explaining it poorly.

[hiphats]

Jerry,

I sympathize with you for all what you've gone through...and for your getting jipped by Artisan/Republic or whatever the powers that be over there.

I'd like to make something clear to our viewers out there, that Artisan owns only the video distribution rights to Republic's material...they do not own Republic itself. It is a licensed distribution deal made before Aaron Spelling (the former owner of Republic) consolidated his companies (WorldVision, Republic, Big Ticket) and the eventual buy-out by Paramount/Viacom. So any decision made on the "official" release of the classic Paramount cartoon library (minus, of course, Popeye and Superman) will be made by Paramount/Viacom themselves. Artisan only has the power to release them on video at their request.

Which brings up another point...Paramount/Viacom has all the power in the world to make the effort to go back to whatever original master elements still exist and create new restorations of their cartoons (a la WB's current effort to restore all their Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies from 1930-present), regardless of whether the material is public domain or not. After all, Republic is owned by Paramount/Viacom, and technically Paramount has back what it lost when the former UM&M acquired the backlog and the alterations that followed. It is just a matter of Paramount/Republic themselves to take the initiative and bring us what millions upon millions of cartoon fans have long deserved over the years.

Note in passing...I just happen to have a video print of the restored "Poor Cinderella" AMC aired many years ago (back in the days when they were commercial-free). It is a beautiful print, looking fresh as the day it was made.

Anyone who was lucky enough to record this should remind themselves of the mistake Paramount/Republic/Artisan/whoever is making in the delay of a proper official release of the classic cartoon backlog.

[Jerry Beck]

Dear hip (or shall I call you Mr. hats?):

I agree with you 99%.
Yes Artisan only has the video rights - but it's up to them whether or not to use thr Republic library (Heck, I don't think they've re-released any of the Republic serials yet). They do not own Republic its true, but its not up to Republic/Paramount to decide their home video choices.
Paramount has its own home video label which cannot touch the Republic material (because Artisan owns those rights).
Paramount cannot decide to release the COLOR CLASSICS or SCREEN SONGS and make Artisan do it. Nor can they put them out under their own label. They sold those rights to Artisan. It's Artisan's call.

Paramount can restore (and has) some of Republic's library. Fleischer's THE RAVEN is being restored at the moment. It's a slow going process. Cartoons are at the bottom of the priority list (below Features, newsreels, live action shorts, etc).

Even if Paramount/Republic could reissue the Fleischer cartoons - the problem is that nobody working there cares. How do I know this? I worked there. I know these companies well.
Paramount COULD release the Terrytoons, if anyone there cared enough to do so. But they don't.

P.S. That restored POOR CINDERELLA is on both the DEFINITIVE BETTY BOOP tape and The SOMEWHERE IN DREAMLAND DVD set.

[hiphats]

Originally posted by Jerry Beck
Dear hip (or shall I call you Mr. hats?):

I agree with you 99%.
Yes Artisan only has the video rights - but it's up to them whether or not to use thr Republic library (Heck, I don't think they've re-released any of the Republic serials yet). They do not own Republic its true, but its not up to Republic/Paramount to decide their home video choices.
Paramount has its own home video label which cannot touch the Republic material (because Artisan owns those rights).
Paramount cannot decide to release the COLOR CLASSICS or SCREEN SONGS and make Artisan do it. Nor can they put them out under their own label. They sold those rights to Artisan. It's Artisan's call.

Paramount can restore (and has) some of Republic's library. Fleischer's THE RAVEN is being restored at the moment. It's a slow going process. Cartoons are at the bottom of the priority list (below Features, newsreels, live action shorts, etc).

Even if Paramount/Republic could reissue the Fleischer cartoons - the problem is that nobody working there cares. How do I know this? I worked there. I know these companies well.
Paramount COULD release the Terrytoons, if anyone there cared enough to do so. But they don't.

P.S. That restored POOR CINDERELLA is on both the DEFINITIVE BETTY BOOP tape and The SOMEWHERE IN DREAMLAND DVD set.

Thanks for clearing this up. Oh, for the record (a minor point), 'hiphats' is one word, a code name I use on the net. I don't use my real name for privacy reasons, of course.

OK, thanks again, Jerry, for your input.

[Nelson]

Jerry and I have talked about this before regarding Viacom's holdings, so for cartoon fans that don't know to exactly what the company owns in their library vault, here's a run down.

Fleischer StudiosTalkartoons, Screen Songs, Color Classics

Terrytoons

Paramount/Famous Studios 1943 -1950 1963-1968

George Pal Puppetoons

Jerry, correct me if I'm wrong on the following topic, but out of any major company, Viacom holds the most of the vintage animation from the 30s right up to the 60s.People have asked me has Viacom done anything with the Paul Terry film library when it comes down to preserving the Terrytoon collection.I can say that Viacom has restored many of the Terrytoons cartoons almost ten years ago, but the B&W shorts are in question and Jerry maybe you can come in and help me in that dept.This might tell me that the Terrytoons might be Viacom's top holdings over the other cartoon studios they currently own.


Paramount holds the video rights to the Terrytoon library but a few years ago Unviersal/MCA home video had the video rights to the Terrytoon cartoons but that has changed in the few years.Artisan has the video rights to the pre-1950 Paramount cartoons as well as the 1962-1968 but has done nothing to get these cartoons to see the light of day on the video market.The one major problem with Viacom is they just don't what what to do or care about their vintage cartoon library, as they see no value in those cartoons in today's market.Glen Ross should wake up and realize what they have in their vaults as we honestly can't say if these cartoons are cared for, or are all of the cartoons are rotting away in a film vault.If there is any major comapny that SHOULD be stripped of it's holdings of classic animation, then that honor should go to Viacom as they have only done a terrible poor job with these cartoons.

Don't even get me started on Ross, as this guy is blooming idiot and moron, as it will only tell you that this man could care less about these cartoons wether or not they get preserved or released on video, so why is this man in charge if he's not doing his job right?Another point to make out is this...Why would Artisan get the video rights to those cartoons if they had no intentions on releasing them on video in the first place, this doesn't make any kind of sense to me none whatsoever.If you're going to buy a film series for the video market, then release those cartoons don't let them sit there on a shelf and collect dust.Something has to be done about this.

[Nelson]

One quick thing I forgot to point out is this....A position that Glen Ross has, that it should go to somebody that truly knows the value of classic film, either it's a feature film, movie serial, comedy shorts and of course cartoons.That would be the only way we can get the films fans want to see.

[J Lee]

Jerry:

I'm assuming a smart guy like Aaron Spelling didn't sign some contract to give Artiesan the video rights in perpetuity. Any idea when this contract expires so that Paramount Home Video or someone else smarter than Glen Ross (how'd he get a David Mamet play named after him?) can get the rights to release these films to the home video market?

[Jerry Beck]

Nelson,

I shall try to clarify some of the points in your last post.

First off, Time-Warner AOL has the largest collection of cartoons (in sheer number of titles), what with the Warner Bros. cartoons, MGM cartoons, Popeye cartoons and Hanna-Barbera library.

Paramount has the materials on 99% of the Terrytoon black & white films (they are missing a few from 1930 and 31), but they haven't bothered to put those on video. They only exist as negs & prints in their vaults.

I think the total number of Terrytoon titles would equal (or be beaten by) the combined forces of the old Paramount cartoons they control. Keep in mind they still have theatrical rights to the "Harvey" library- thus all the original negs to the Paramount 1950-1962 cartroons are still held in Paramount's vaults (all original titles intact and preserved).
Just think, if Paramount wanted to attach CASPER'S SPREE UNDER THE SEA or AUDREY THE RAINMAKER to a Nickelodeon movie or K-19: THE WIDOWMAKER, they could!

Also note: Paramount has all rights to the 1963-1967 Paramount Cartoons - not Artisan.

Paramount licensed the Terrytoons to Unversal & USA Network about ten years ago - and that deal is up right about now.

Why would Artisan buy the cartoon rights and not use them?

Let me explain. You are looking at this from the point of view of the cartoons. They aren't. Artisan bought the rights to the entire Republic catalog. That includes feature films like IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE and THE QUIET MAN, and numerous made for video "B" movies. The cartoons came along in the package. They make a ton of money from the feature product. And because they do, Glen Ross looks like he's doing his job.
In fact, he IS doing his job - which is to create income for Artisan. But he is being a fool for ignoring the financial potential of the cartoon library.

[Jerry Beck]

I don't know how long the Republic-Artisan deal is for - but I believe it is for a long time (like ten years). It will end someday.

[Nelson]

Thanks for the info on this topic Jerry it does help you (the cartoon fan) understand the situation.Lets just hope that Mr.Ross will see the light someday, that these cartoons have so much value and the rich history behind the classic cartoons, to be seen again either ov cable tv or the home video market.

[hiphats]

Originally posted by Nelson
Thanks for the info on this topic Jerry it does help you (the cartoon fan) understand the situation.Lets just hope that Mr.Ross will see the light someday, that these cartoons have so much value and the rich history behind the classic cartoons, to be seen again either ov cable tv or the home video market.

I second that. It all has to do with studio politics, is what all of us have been trying to say all along.

And maybe someday, Jerry, you can take this information in this thread and revise your FAQ to fully and explicitly explain who owns what components of the entire Paramount cartoon library.

P.S. For the record, 20th Century Fox originally distributed the Terrytoons. I think Fox may still hold foreign theatrical rights, but I'm sure Paramount holds domestic rights now since they became part of Viacom.

[Nelson]

Terrytoons was originally distributed by EDUCATIONAL FILMS from 1930 to 1937 for which the small studio supplied the short subject package for the Fox studios, before they became 20th Century Fox.The studio soon took over the Terrytoon releases from Educational in 1938.I do believe that Fox still has the theatrical rights to the Terrytoon cartoons overseas, to this day.

[Nelson]

Not to change the subject, but here's something funny.I work one block from the main offices of Viacom (1515 Broadway) and a three blocks away from the original Fleischer Studios at 1600 Broadway, so it makes you wonder if Viacom knows that they are only a couple of blocks from the the Fleischers old home? :p

Eh, I doubt it....

[Davesnothere]

Shouldn't "intellectual property" only be in the hands of an "intellectual" owner?!?

[mlr]

Ah...Glen Ross and Artisan. Cabin Fever Entertainment beautifully restores Hal Roach's OUR GANG comedies and releases them on VHS and laserdisc, to much acclaim and success. Cabin Fever begins releasing the shorts on DVD. Cabin Fever is absorbed by Artisan, who promises to take over and complete the DVD release of the OUR GANG shorts. Artisan repackages and reissues the first Cabin Fever DVD, then almost immediately announces that they've decided not to release additional DVDs in the series. Want to guess who at Artisan has stated publicly that he doesn't think the OUR GANGs have any appeal for today's audiences?

Mike

[David Gerstein]

Hmm, and Artisan's website notes that it has also absorbed the Hallmark properties, including the Gang's Hal Roach bedfellows Laurel and Hardy, who were awfully popular on video... up to recently, that is. Anyone wonder where Stan and Ollie are in the DVD revolution?

[rodney]

The L&H sound material is in desperate need of full restoration (preferably done the way the Our Gang shorts were done several years back). Some of the surviving prints circulating among collectors look like they were shot through a screen door.

Most of the silent material is available on DVD, in very nice restored prints. The sound material is sitting on a shelf at Artisan, and nothing is being done with it.

I am a rabid L&H fan, and to my knowledge there are no plans for either a restoration or DVD release of any of the boys' sound material.

[Paul Penna]

Originally posted by rodney
I am a rabid L&H fan, and to my knowledge there are no plans for either a restoration or DVD release of any of the boys' sound material.

On the alt.comedy.laurel-hardy newsgroup, there have recently been some seemingly credible reports of word from Hallmark that an L&H DVD release will occur in 2003.

[mlr]

On the alt.comedy.laurel-hardy newsgroup, there have recently been some seemingly credible reports of word from Hallmark that an L&H DVD release will occur in 2003.


That would be awfully nice of them. It's been awfully frustrating reading in that newsgroup that so many of the sound shorts and features *have* been released on DVD in Europe.

Incidentally, the Laurel and Hardy talkie material has been undergoing restoration the past few years. It's just been slow going. Apparently, much of the existing preprint material is in rough shape, having been badly mistreated by various Roach licensees over the past fifty-plus years.

Mike

[rodney]

I'd love to see restored copies of their work with the original titles and soundtracks, but I realize that a full restoration like that is impossible.