Popeye Show 09-15-2002

[Pilmedium]

A Clean Shaven Man (Fleischer, 1936)
Protek the Weakerist (Fleischer, 1937)
Spinach fer Britain (Famous, 1943)

[Argus Sventon]

I was expecting to see "Protek the Weakerist" with the opening Paramount stereoptical patent logo. Instead, I see the same logo they have been using all the time.

Bozo or Gak, I think we at least deserve an explaination why the original openings to PTW, were not shown tonight. The original opening HAS been shown on Cartoon Network at least in the redrawn version.

Also, why after 20+ episodes, have the 3-D stereooptical backgrounds never been mentioned. Is there a reason for this?

[TServo2049]

Maybe the best materials available had the AAP logos spliced on...maybe the stereoptical notice does not exist on ANY of the negatives or the best prints available...I dunno...just be glad they are putting Paramount logos on at all.

[Argus Sventon]

Still, they could affix the end Paramount logos on the openings. Makes me wonder how they could have found a Paramount cartoon logo with the lower case "p".

[Howard]

While it was nice to see a WWII short, I thought that "Spinach Fer Britain" was a rather boring affair, and the animation was kind of sloppy in spots. The other two were much better.

[J Lee]

Argus, I would guess that Bozo only had access to the standard AAP print of "Protek the Weakerest" for some reason and had to make do with that (Back in the 60s and 70s, that's also the print that WPIX and most of the other stations I saw that had the Popeye syndication package used). I don't know where the Turner people got that print they shipped overseas to have redrawn in 1987. It would have been nice to have seen that it all its B&W glory, but for all we know its sitting in some dusty closet in the back room of some animation house in South Korea right now.

As for the "sloppy" animation in "Spinach for Britain," that's just Jim Tyer being his usual uncontrolled self. All of Tyer's Popeye cartoons with Izzy Sparber or Dan Gordon as director have the same squash-and-mangle-and-stretch animation, and Tyer was the least subtile animator in the world when it came to bashing the Axis powers during WWII (what he does in "Your A Sap, Mr. Jap" and "Seein' Red, White & Blue" makes "Spinach for Britain" look tame by comparison).

[Nelson]

A very great episode tonight and it's great to have a fully restored print of "Spinach Fer Britian" on video :D

And besides, I truly love Jim Tyer's animation in this cartoon, just like he did at Terrytoons several years later....The man was simply great as he didn't always play by the rules in the fields of animation.

[Mibbitmaker]

When I saw Tyer in the credits, I was even more looking forward to it than already (though I did tape it twice from an early Toonheads. I haven't seen it for a while on the tapes).

Not sloppy... Lichy, as Clampett told his animators how to do it (from print cartoonist Lichy's loose drawing style). Tyer is the Rod Scribner of Famous Studios!

SfB, right up there with Service With A Guile. :)

[rodney]

Originally posted by Argus Sventon

Bozo or Gak, I think we at least deserve an explaination why the original openings to PTW, were not shown tonight. The original opening HAS been shown on Cartoon Network at least in the redrawn version.


I think it's a little much to say we deserve anything. They don't have to show them at all!

[bozo]

Argus,
Seeing the redrawn logo on PTW is what gave me the idea to try to put the logos back on the cartoons. I didn't know what I was getting into. The redrawn Popeyes were actually struck from 16mm prints. The bodies that I have to work with came from 35. As J Lee said that print is probably in Korea because I could never track it down. The logos I used to restore the B&W's actually came from a handful of Popeye titles that had been tracked down by Jerry Beck and friends. These came from 16mm prints also, but they were the original B&W and not redrawn like the logo on PTW. All of the logos on these cartoons, (including the lower case "P") all came from Popeye cartoons.
Also, I have some new leads and some people trying to help me find out if some actual negatives exist. If this is true hopefully we will be able to restore The Hungry Goat as well as the two-reelers and stuff like On Our Way to Rio and Tops in the Big Top.
I hope this sheds some light...
B

[Argus Sventon]

Could the end logos from the 1934-1938 toons be attached to the openings and the "STEREOPTICAL APPARATUS PATENT 2054414" be digitally added to the openings for the post-1936's, and perhaps add the "PATENT PENDING FOR SPECIAL PROCESSES USED IN THIS PRODUCTION" to the 1934-1936 toons.

This could be done in the same way as the "Dubbed Version" disclaimers on the pre-48 color WB toons.

Also, are there any plans to discuss the 3-D backgrounds during the narration in a future episode?

[David Gerstein]

Originally posted by bozo
Also, I have some new leads and some people trying to help me find out if some actual negatives exist. If this is true hopefully we will be able to restore The Hungry Goat as well as the two-reelers and stuff like On Our Way to Rio and Tops in the Big Top.
Sounds exciting. Hopefully, should you locate these negatives, you can restore also the gag that's been cut since the 1950s from POPEYE AND THE PIRATES. As far as I can tell, a cross-dressed Popeye had been taking off his female drag and, after removing the barbell (!) he'd been using as a bosom, he (somehow) unintentionally inserts it into the pirate captain's mouth.
In the presently available prints, we cut from Popeye reaching to remove his bosom to a shocked Popeye staring at the captain, who now has the barbell in his mouth. You can kind of guess what must have happened (as I have), but I'd still enjoy finding the full original version.

[Larry T]

Originally posted by David Gerstein
Sounds exciting. Hopefully, should you locate these negatives, you can restore also the gag that's been cut since the 1950s from POPEYE AND THE PIRATES. As far as I can tell, a cross-dressed Popeye had been taking off his female drag and, after removing the barbell (!) he'd been using as a bosom, he (somehow) unintentionally inserts it into the pirate captain's mouth.
In the presently available prints, we cut from Popeye reaching to remove his bosom to a shocked Popeye staring at the captain, who now has the barbell in his mouth. You can kind of guess what must have happened (as I have), but I'd still enjoy finding the full original version.

Yeah, I've always wondered what happened there- it's a great joke that just kind of gets stopped short because we don't know what we missed when Popeye got undressed. :)

[Jon Cooke]

Originally posted by David Gerstein
In the presently available prints, we cut from Popeye reaching to remove his bosom to a shocked Popeye staring at the captain, who now has the barbell in his mouth. You can kind of guess what must have happened (as I have), but I'd still enjoy finding the full original version.

Here are two pictures from the current print of "Popeye and the Pirates" I made awhile back. In the cartoon, it just cuts from the picture #1 (Popeye about to remove the barbell) to #2 (Popeye shocked to see the Captain). There is nothing in-between.

http://looney.toonzone.net/picts/popeyepirates1.jpg
http://looney.toonzone.net/picts/popeyepirates2.jpg


-Jon

[Mike]

Originally posted by Argus Sventon
Bozo or Gak, I think we at least deserve an explaination why the original openings to PTW, were not shown tonight.

I'm with Rodney. We don't deserve anything. It's been great what Bozo has done, and terrifically nice of him to keep us here at the TTTP informed of upcoming shows. To think he owes us anything is a bit much. Remember, if Bozo and people like him hadn't approached CN with the idea for "The Popeye Show," we probably never would have seen anything like it, and would be making do with the redrawns or the LNB&W versions.

Look, I don't want to sound mean, but the idea that we deserve anything from Bozo is a bit much. Just be thankful for what we have seen so far; it's a lot better than what we had been getting!

Mike

[Geezil]

You know, as far as I'm concerned, CN ought to show "A Clean Shaven Man" and "Olive's Boithday Presink" just a bit more often. ;)

On the other hand, Mrs. Geezil showed a huge smile of recognition as we watched the final scene of "Clean Shaven Man" ... I think I might be having a kind of identity crisis (which, as you've always suspected, was bound to happen).

(P.S.: I'll now have to add my voice to the Stop Picking on Bozo and Let Him Do His Excellent Work in Peace Chorus!)

[mlr]

That would truly be wonderful should at least some of the negatives turn up for the Popeyes. I've wondered if anybody has ever been certain what exactly became of them. Presumably, AAP made the same arrangement for the Popeyes that they made with Warner Bros. for their film library: they got a set of 35mm library prints of the films along with dupe negative materials on safety stock. If the original negatives remained at Paramount, I guess the question is, what did they ultimately do with them? If AAP got them, they must have been lost or misplaced by the time Turner aquired the cartoons.

[Bobby B]

Originally posted by Nelson
A very great episode tonight and it's great to have a fully restored print of "Spinach Fer Britian" on video :D



And we got a long clip from "Scrap the Japs" too.

[Pilmedium]

Originally posted by Bobby B, earlier today
And we got a long clip from "Scrap the Japs" too.

I don't think clips are worth much. :eek:

[lislebartman]

I never noticed the barbell in the pirate captain's mouth before...there's got to be a reason why the scene skips so... :confused:

[Nelson]

"Scrap The Japs" is one of the greatest WW2 Popeye cartoons ever made and the film is restored.I have a restored print of this cartoon and the prints looks excellent :D :D :D :D

[J Lee]

There really are very few WWII Popeyes that aren't great -- in fact, after struggling to figure out how to keep the series fresh in 1940-41 (the eliminated Bluto for 18 months and tried to find new variations with Poopdeck Pappy), just the arrival of the theat of war (Popeye "joined the navy" several months before Pearl Harbor) really allowed the Fletcher and Famous staff to find dozens of new angles for the series, while at the same time allowing them to speed up the pace of the Popeye shorts to Warner Bros. levels.

The 1942-43 Popeye 'toons like "Many Tanks" and "Seein' Red, White 'N Blue" may not have been as fast as what Clampett was doing, but they certainly were faster than what the Jones or McCabe units at Warners were putting out at the same time, let alone Hanna-Barbera at MGM or the stuff Alex Lovy was doing for Lantz. If only they could have kept that energy after the war was over....