Batman Beyond off Kids'WB Sooner Than Expected?

[James Harvey]

Well, Kids'WB! has totally revamped their fall schedule again and has taken away the weekday morning slot. WHy is this important? Well Batman Beyond was scheduled to air at 7am Mon - Thurs this fall, and it looks like it won't bed now. And beginning Sept. 3rd Sailor Moon will be taking over one of the BB spots. So, it looks like Beyond may be off Kids'WB! a season earlier, on September 17th. And get this...no airdate for Unmasked.

Check Toonzone's newsboard or schedule page for this crappy news.

[TuffyCatt]

I'm really angry now. :mad: Why does the WB have to keep doing stuff like this?? I'm still pretty new to Batman Beyond and haven't even seen all the episodes yet....I was counting on this last season to do so. I've been relatively patient with KidsWB so far, but now I'm upset.... :(

Oh well, now that I've worked that off...thanks for keeping us up to date.

[Jowy Blight]

BB is but out its spots for Sailor moon!? It seems that KWB is trying to take anime from CN. They're only doing this because their own shows are doing so poorly against CN's.

KWB makes me sick.:mad:

[Maxie Zeus]

There better be ANOTHER shoe to drop (a sked revampt putting it back someplace) . . . :mad:

I guess the execs figure "The show was originally OUR idea, so we can treat it like crap if we want". . .

[Bird Boy]

I don't really care anymore. I hate Kids WB...and no force on heaven or earth can make me watch it again. I hope WB's ratings drop dramatically..and they realize all of the hits were from Batman Beyond.

Air the last episode already..watch all of the ratings skyrocket...lets see who gets fired when they find out HE was the one who told them not to air it.

Let WB learn from their mistakes. What they need, is a hard-core fan of Batman (or any other show WB's mistreated), and have him in a high place...and have him/her tell THEM what to do..

-BB

[Trent Lane]

Aside from the supposed appearance by Batman on Static Shock, I'm done with KWB. They've screwed too much stuff up now. They can choke on their five Pokemon shows and Rescue Heroes for all I care:mad:

[James Harvey]

I'm done with Kids'WB!. All this anime stuff is taking over. POKEMON. POKEMON: JOHTO JOURNEYS. POKEMON: JOHTO CHAMPIONS, SAILOR MOON, CARDCAPTORS, YUGIOH. Just air Unmasked so I can drop the channel from the cable package...

[Mr. Obsession]

Hopefully this means that they plan on moving BB to CN very soon. *Drools at the thought of BB CN Toonami promos*

Personally I think that in the right time slot (right around 6 or 6:30) BB could draw huge ratings.

[James Harvey]

I can already CN pormos set to MATRIX-esque music and stuff by LUNATIC CALM and DEFTONES. I think a slot at 7pm would be ideal. It's not too late and not too early.

[Inque]

Originally posted by DickGrayson
All this anime stuff is taking over. POKEMON. POKEMON: JOHTO JOURNEYS. POKEMON: JOHTO CHAMPIONS, SAILOR MOON, CARDCAPTORS, YUGIOH.
Didn't anime take over Cartoon Network? A few years ago, there was no Gundam Wing or Outlaw Star. This is basically what is happening to KidsWB (excpet with crappier anime). Compared to the current KidsWB lineup, Sailor Moon would be considered good anime.

[Nightflower]

Is it the first seasons of Sailor Moon that were dubbed by Dic, or the ones with the original music, dubbed by Cwi? On YTV, we're getting the Cwi ones.

Oh yeah...I'm pretty new to Batman Beyond too, haven't seen many episodes. What's this about an unaired last episode? (Old news, I'm sure, but anyone care to humor a newbie?)

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Sigh...now I'm angry at KWB.
I keep trying to see if they do SOMETHING good....now I have no more faith.
You may be wondering why I'm here; well, though I do not have a intrests in BB or any other DC things (though VERY entertaining to watch an eppy when waiting for something else) but I know there was a big fanbase to thier DC cartoons.
And they had the DC 'toons bite the bullet.
Zeus was right, they treat anything they make like crap. It's pathetic. Why bother to make anything at all....

.....I find it pitiful that KWB was invented originally just to air some of WB'S old shows....bah. Now it's gonna become the 'anime hour'.

I've lost my faith in WB...sigh....

[Bird Boy]

Originally posted by Nightflower
Oh yeah...I'm pretty new to Batman Beyond too, haven't seen many episodes. What's this about an unaired last episode? (Old news, I'm sure, but anyone care to humor a newbie?)

"Unmasked" (the very last episode of Batman Beyond..currently anyway) was supposed to air in may. The more we hope, the more it gets pushed back..and now..BB isn't even on their schedules anymore.

-BB

[The Mad Hatter]

More specifically, Nightflower, KWB loves to "stockpile" episodes so they can claim a show has another season. Like what they did with Superman. They get their 52 episodes produced, and cancel the show. But do they air the remaining episodes in the season it was cancelled? No.... they hold "Legacy" till, if I recall, the next February, so they can milk the re-runs for longer. They did the same thing with Pinky and the Brain. Jerks.

And like everyone else said, I'm not even going to give KWB a second thought beyond the Batman episode of Static next May. Looks like Cartoon Network's our haven now.

[James Harvey]

That method is KWB is great...NOT! They did Handle BATMAN okay. They aired 11 episodes in 4 months, which isn't too bad when you think of it. Heck - they aired 6 episodes in one month. Then again, that show ended in January of that season. AND Then again KWB considered Batman/Superman under the same umbrella so they were able to keep the "season" going with new Superman episodes.

Man they're messed up.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Grayson, my friend....you're complementing KWB when you simply call them messed up!:D

As Hatter said, CN's our haven now....what a surprise. Also, I never knew they would stockpile eppys to get another season. That's atrocious. It's also sad no one will get to see the last eppy....

[Calhoun07]

You all hung in there with KWB alot longer than I did. They jacked up Batman Beyond during it's second season so I couldn't watch .t. It was preempted all the time with Pokemon marathons then it was moved to a day I couldn't see it anymore. I've hated KWB since then.

[James Harvey]

They're messed up becuase the pushed back Superman so far and ended BATMAN too early. PLus they keep shuffling their schedules at the last minute. Messed. Up.

[optimal321]

No! I still don't have all my BB eps taped. I was counting on this season of reruns to complete my collection! I am sooooooo mad at KWB right now! And i don't even have CN to turn to! Doens't KWB know that this anime crap is just a fad? And that sooner or later kids won't give a crap about which new Pokemon is introduced this week?!?! I hope this comes back to bite you in the butt.

[Mr. Mayhem]

Kids WB!

At one time (Around 1997) Kids WB looked very promising (These are back in that Dubba Dubba Days). I hated Fox Kids by the time of 1996/1997. They where totally shafting the best show on their network: Batman: The Animated Series. They had it playing lower than second fiddle to Spider-Man, Power Rangers, Beetleborgs, and worst of all Bobby's World. So I jumped for joy when I head Batman would be leaving Fox Kids to join Superman at KWB!

Things really did get off on a great start at KWB too. Batman/Superman were airing every afternoon. We had World's Finest actually shown in primetime. They aired Subzero. They promoted the shows very well. Brought in the hit Batman Beyond. It was great. Then by spring 1999 that damn dreadful Pokeman came along! And the rest is history.....Now Kids WB boasts the most sorry line up of cartoons ever. No longer do we have the Classic Warner Bros. icons like Bugs Bunny and Batman! No! Now it's about dozens of Pokemans' and Anime programs.

In other words.....

KIDS WB SOLED OUT!

They went from being a very North American to very Overseas Forgien!

No two ways about it: KIDS WB SUCKS!

[Maxie Zeus]

If I had to bet, I would say that the shift occurred because of the acquisition of Turner and CN.

WB was originally launched after the repeal of the fin-syn rules (which limited the amount of programming a network could have a financial interest in), as a haven for WB-produced fare. KWB was simply the children's arm, and dedicated to the same purpose. It wasn't for the sake of the fans that KWB built that great WBA lineup, but its own financial self-interest.

With the acquisition of Turner, however, WBA programming no longer needed KWB as a secure distribution outlet. CN serves that purpose just fine. That frees KWB to do what networks naturally want to do: Air programming which will get the highest ratings. And so KWB goes chasing after any programming from any studio: MIB:TAS, X-Men: Evolution, Jackie Chan Adventures, Pokemon, etc.

Look at it from their perspective: WBA gets its secure distribution with CN; with KWB, the company gets a chance to tap into another studio's product line and cash flow. The incentive is to shift mostly (and maybe entirely) to a non-WBA lineup, which is what we've been seeing.

Actually, all this may in the long run be a good thing. (What follows is from the Dept. of Silver Linings.) WB is an iffy enterprise (as is UPN) and there is no guarantee that it will be around in 10 years--the economics of broadcast television are brutal. But CN is rocksolid, and over the long run will probably prove to be a far safer and hospitable refuge than WB ever would have been.

[The Mad Hatter]

Mmm... I'm not sure it would be most accurate to pin it on Turner. The acquisition happened around the first year of KWB, and the line-up remained pretty darn good till they acquired Pokemon in '99 or so. Then things went down the tubes.

More likely, I think, is that there was a fundamental shift in the attitudes of the executives. Instead of maintaining the tradition of great, original WB cartoons that appeal to a wide range of people, they decided that they must appeal to kids above all else.

Don't get me wrong, cartoons should appeal to kids. And the original KWB lineup does. The current CN line-up does. The problem is that, when execs set out to really make a show "kid-friendly" (as they define it), they invariably make the show toothless and condescending. Look at the difference between, say, Batman and Zeta. While kids can grasp Batman easily, that show is loaded with good psychological drama, complex plots and great action sequences. Zeta, a show made under the command of "kid-friendly or else!", just feels flat watered down in all aspects.

The sad thing is that KWB was kicking ratings butt even before the execs decided to create show that appeals to a demographic rather than actual humans. (This also explains why the vast majority of sitcoms are lame, but that's another discussion.)

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by The Mad Hatter
Mmm... I'm not sure it would be most accurate to pin it on Turner. The acquisition happened around the first year of KWB, and the line-up remained pretty darn good till they acquired Pokemon in '99 or so. Then things went down the tubes.

More likely, I think, is that there was a fundamental shift in the attitudes of the executives.

Yeah, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of a network executive. And "Pinky, Elmyra and the Brain" proves that exec malfeasance and incompetence are at work over there. But the shift from an exclusively WBA-produced lineup to one that's WBA-free is so extreme that I have to think the financial considerations played a role. Without CN, there would be too much pressure from the studio parent to keep, protect and promote WBA stuff; with it, KWB can concentrate on its own bottom line by looking to the "best" product, outside or inside. The incompetence comes in not recognizing that the self-produced stuff is superior to the acquired material.

[Calhoun07]

I agree that Pokemon was the show that killed KWB. Before that, I used to watch just about every single show in it's line up. In its hey day, it was the shangrila of animated programming. And the hour blocks of Batman and Superman were always must sees for me. My life revolved around those schedules!

And I agree with the idea that WB decided to appeal to more kids than a broader range of audiences, which is a shame. Now all these kids will grow up, look back, and realize how crappy the shows were. The best hope KWB has now for the future is that kids might say, "Yeah, those shows were crappy, but they are nostolgic fun." But mostly the kids of today will grow up, wise up, and leave KWB behind. And if the television business is so fragile, then they are building their future on questionable sand.

[James Harvey]

Once KWB got the kid-friendly thing in their head it all went down south from there -- very far south. Still, I'm happy that Batman and Superman are off that network. I'd hate to see what they'd do if they stayed.

[Calhoun07]

I guess what I am wondering is does anybody here think KWB will ever be able to turn itself around at this point? It hasn't been that far gone for so long that I don't think they could turn back at this point, but I do think that they have this negative stigma with them that will be hard to shake. They have upset too many of their long time fans, but is it to the point that people have totally given up on them?

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by calhoun07
I guess what I am wondering is does anybody here think KWB will ever be able to turn itself around at this point? It hasn't been that far gone for so long that I don't think they could turn back at this point, but I do think that they have this negative stigma with them that will be hard to shake. They have upset too many of their long time fans, but is it to the point that people have totally given up on them?

To be honest, I don't watch networks, I only watch shows. If KWB puts something worth watching up, I will go to it. I suspect most here would do the same.

The problem from KWB's perspective is that they did once had a "brand identity" that encouraged its viewers to sample new shows. I sampled Freakazoid and Road Rovers and even that Wayans show, based on the fact that it was KWB and they had a "style" that I liked. Not anymore.

[Shriek]

Originally posted by DickGrayson
I'm done with Kids'WB!. All this anime stuff is taking over. POKEMON. POKEMON: JOHTO JOURNEYS. POKEMON: JOHTO CHAMPIONS, SAILOR MOON, CARDCAPTORS, YUGIOH. Just air Unmasked so I can drop the channel from the cable package...

To tell you all the truth. I seriously do hate Anime. Really. I can't stand it at all.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

I too admit that KWB went down when it aquired Pokemon. The big question for me is: Could they have kept 'Mon in moderation? I may rant on it a lot (and still plan to), but it had the makings of a good show in it...(which was blwon VERY well) And perhaps it could be considered a alright show if KWB made sure they did not go overboard with it? After all, I wonder if we would still like a show we REALLY liked (like Batman Beyond) if KWB started showing and promoting it in the amount that they did with Pokemon? But that IS the only slack I'm gonna give 'Mon...

I doubt that KWB will turn itself around. As Zeus said, now that it is attached to CN, it does not need to worry about maintaining its (now shattered and gone) 'WB' image. Need ratings? Not a problem. Just snag some popular CN show that is not purely CN (like Dexter or Bravo). They don't even need to make anymore true 'WB'-ish shows now, with the imports of both anime and CN shows; just throwing together some awfully animated/written show that lasts a season or two (Gen. O!) will be done just to keep KWB's status as a maker of shows itself.

...Man....if only all my posts were as big as this!:D

[TuffyCatt]

I don't mind Pokemon too much, I actually enjoy it once in a while. But I agree that Kids WB! uses it way too much. If they didn't rely on pokemon so much, Kids WB! might have more time slots available for some better shows like Batman Beyond. I don't see any reason why Pokemon has to have two time slots on Saturday when it occupies half of the time slots every weekday. Anyway, that's my short, unscientific take on it... :rolleyes:

[Calhoun07]

Man, all these people turning on KWB! And on the WB toonzone site, no less! Shouldn't this send a jolting message to the people at WB??? And I am sure that for every person who takes the time to post here and give their 2¢ about it, there are plenty more people out there who just won't watch KWB again.

[optimal321]

Originally posted by BourgeoisBuffoon
I too admit that KWB went down when it aquired Pokemon. The big question for me is: Could they have kept 'Mon in moderation? I may rant on it a lot (and still plan to), but it had the makings of a good show in it...(which was blwon VERY well) And perhaps it could be considered a alright show if KWB made sure they did not go overboard with it? After all, I wonder if we would still like a show we REALLY liked (like Batman Beyond) if KWB started showing and promoting it in the amount that they did with Pokemon? But that IS the only slack I'm gonna give 'Mon...

I doubt that KWB will turn itself around. As Zeus said, now that it is attached to CN, it does not need to worry about maintaining its (now shattered and gone) 'WB' image. Need ratings? Not a problem. Just snag some popular CN show that is not purely CN (like Dexter or Bravo). They don't even need to make anymore true 'WB'-ish shows now, with the imports of both anime and CN shows; just throwing together some awfully animated/written show that lasts a season or two (Gen. O!) will be done just to keep KWB's status as a maker of shows itself.

...Man....if only all my posts were as big as this!:D

I agree totally! It's not so much the show i hate (although it does get really repetitive) it's that it's on almost all the time. Kinda like w/ *NSinc and how they've taken over all teen pop things. They are the older kids' Pokemon. Everything is decent in moderation. Airing Pokemon 12 times a week and feeding off this kiddy fad crap is what turned me away.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by optimal321
It's not so much the show i hate (although it does get really repetitive) it's that it's on almost all the time. Kinda like w/ *NSinc and how they've taken over all teen pop things.

Hmm. Now that I think about it, why is everyone so upset about cloning? Clearly, it is already here. :rolleyes:

[The Mad Hatter]

Man, all these people turning on KWB! And on the WB toonzone site, no less!

Heh. You should have been here when Pokemon first aired on KWB and spread like a virus. There was wall-to-wall griping for close to a year till we got sick of talking about it.

[Calhoun07]

That really sums it up in a nutshell. Too much of anything is BAD. Like your favorite song on the radio you barely hear and love then they start playing it every two hours and you want to claw at your ears when you hear it. Why does the media have to spoil good things (Pokemon...GOOD?) by forcing us to see it or hear it so often we get sick of it??

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

So when the NEXT big thing starts, we'll be so happy to gt rid of the old thing, but eventually we'll get sick of the new fad! Then you repeat the process ad nauseum...

....we must stop this from happening! Boycott pop culture!:p

[Calhoun07]

I have! And gladly, I might add!

Josie and the Pussycats really did a pretty decent job in satarizing this in their movie. Anybody see it? Imagine the powers behind Josie and the Pussycats in the movie are quite a bit like WB execs!

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by Shriek


To tell you all the truth. I seriously do hate Anime. Really. I can't stand it at all.

Not to nitpick, but don't you think it's silly to condemn a whole medium (Yes....I said medium, not "genre" or "cult." Anime is the same as animation...period) just because a couple of corporate bigwigs decide to put them over your favourite shows?

I mean, I really liked Gargoyles, and I'm upset that Disney is going back the safe route with tamer shows, but I don't HATE tame Disney shows, and the people who decide to go with them. It's just the nature of the business.

I get upset when formerly-good anime shows are hacked up beyond belief, but I don't HATE the people doing it. I question their reasoning, but I understand that people want to make money, and in a capitalist society jobs and LOTS of money are at stake. If my job depended on it, would I go with a personal favourite show, or the moneymaker with tons of sponsors depending on you? And so it goes.

[Calhoun07]

If a show is good and well written, and the characterization mature and handled well, then it should not matter what style it is drawn in. I just can't comprehending hating one style of animation because you had bad experiences with shows and/or movies in that particular style before. There is great stuff in anime, and it's not all big eyes, big breasts, and big robots. There is anime out there with a whole lot more to offer than American animation. And I don't hate American animation because I can cite several examples of shows in the style which I don't like.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Originally posted by calhoun07
If a show is good and well written, and the characterization mature and handled well, then it should not matter what style it is drawn in. I just can't comprehending hating one style of animation because you had bad experiences with shows and/or movies in that particular style before. There is great stuff in anime, and it's not all big eyes, big breasts, and big robots. There is anime out there with a whole lot more to offer than American animation. And I don't hate American animation because I can cite several examples of shows in the style which I don't like.

I like lots of Western animation, but there are of course a lot of bad Western animation I dislike. Same goes for anime.

If I was an alien and came to earth and watched Armageddon, Star Wars Phantom Menace, Runaway Bride and Quest for Camelot, should I conclude that all Hollywood films suck? Of course not. I would be missing some of the Hollywood classics like Casablanca, Blade Runner, E.T. or Psycho.

Yeah, but you know, people only go by what they see, rather than actually do some research on them. I ask these people, "Have you seen the anime Dog of Flanders? Grave of the Fireflies? Rose of Versailles? Yawara? Master Keaton? Heidi? etc, etc,. "

What I have listed here covers a broad area of genres. Historical fiction, thriller, literature adaptations, comedy, serious war drama...

Of course, most of them go by what's on American TV like Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z, or whatever's in the local Blockbuster (Some people still think all anime is hentai...). It doesn't help that many anime distributors only bring one type of show or taste to U.S. shores, and it's even worse in corporate agenda-driven children's television.

I've said all along that there is little difference between anime and animation. In fact, there is no difference. Anime is animation, and vice versa. "Anime" is just a cute buzzword to try to dissociate Japanese animation from American animation, when, in my opinion, is actually somewhat unnecessary. If you like to watch TV or movies, there WILL be an anime title out there for you. You can say all you want about cultural barriers and language gap and blah blah blah, but I absolutely, positively refuse to believe there isn't at least one anime title out there for everyone (I'm of the opinion the average person can find much more than one they'll like, though). If one insists there is NO anime title for him or herself, then I can only chalk it up to an inner bias that prevents watching a title with an unresisting mind. Like American animation, animation quality in anime varies considerably from show to show. There are conservatively animated shows like Pokemon, and then there are lavishly animated shows like Cowboy Bebop. I think 08th MS Team should have proven that there are anime with much more than 2 frames per second...

Well, I guess being biased isn't too bad as long as one admits it. I become totally illogical when it comes to CGI animation, as I can't get into it because of a personal bias, but at least I KNOW I'm being illogical about it. Which is why I stay away from discussing CGI films or shows in detail. But I won't ever discount the possibility that someday I'll come across one that I'll really like.

[James Harvey]

Pesonally, I don't hate anime, or hold it responsible for getting Batman Beyond chucke doff the network. I just don't like how KWB has taken the cheap route and it buying all these poorly dubbed, edited, voiced, looking anime shows instead of airing some homegrown stuff. While I do joy some anime movies, I don't enjoy it when they're butchered and hacked to death to be paraded to little kiddies on networks. I don't like POKEMON. I don't like CARDCAPTORS. I don't like SAILOR MOON. I porobably won't like YUGIOH. I don't hold these shows responsible for getting Beyond not renewed, but I hold KWB responsible.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Boy, does this conversation sound familiar! Of course, I know Dick's stance on this topic, as we have discussed this ad nauseum. But I always find it amusing how people start finger pointing when a favourite show is being put off for a while (or permanently). Anime fans, too, had to do finger pointing when Escaflowne didn't make it, and didn't air exactly as hoped. Of course, it's the same old thing--getting worked up, that is.

First off, Batman Beyond is in reruns. We know that. They'll probably air the last few episodes next season (or they might not--but I think we've accepted that BB is nearing its end anyway). So they're putting it off the air (I suspect temporarily) for some new shows that haven't aired on KWB before. We knew that the Toonami lineup would be constantly shifting. Dragon Ball Z goes on for about two weeks or so, and then off. Batman Beyond goes on, then off. Sailor Moon goes on, then off etc,.

As for the morning lineup, I don't get that at all. Histeria lived longer than it should have in the morning lineup, so it's safe to say KWB puts their "yesterday's news" shows in the morning, so BB SHOULD be there. I seem to recall reading in Variety or something that KWB mioght be nixing the whole morning schedule like Fox Kids, though I can't verify.

You don't put Pokemon off the air because it is KWB's flagship show. Lots of people watch it (yes, they still do). And it has a larger library of episodes. With Batman Beyond, it's a more limited number, and I truly doubt everyone here has been following the reruns religiously either. So I suspect the argument here is just based on the principle of it being on the air rather then a need to watch the show every day.

It really all comes down to ratings, of course. I can't blame a network for cancelling a good show but is doing horrible ratings. BB wasn't doing horrible ratings, but it wasn't a consistent smash ratings hit either. I felt disappointed when Fox Kids started to cater to an attention-deficit audience 4 years ago, but of course, a lot of it had to do with the viewers. Why do little kids want to watch Power Rangers over Batman: TAS? Well, there is no explanation, but they just do.

Me, I'd blame the viewers for most of it, but I blame networks for not attempting to try new things with the audience. Lack of guts and all that.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Once again, LLJ proves cooler heads will prevail. Thanks!:)

Yeah, guys, be glad that BB will still be aired as reruns for a while yet. You guys will still get to watch it tenichally. Oh, yeah, KWB IS taking out the whole morning schedule...

No one can blame a good show for being axed by poor ratings, but we still like to show our disapproval...and yeah, everyone is to blame in a situation like that. But I do not like how KWB treats the self-made shows like they were junk.

....and Histeria can NEVER stay on too long...:mad:

[James Harvey]

Kids'WB! will be dropping the weekday morning slot as of September 3rd, making HISTERIA! the longest running show in that time block. With this block gone, this leaves BATMAN BEYOND homeless. It's possible the show will come back in January, but KWB already has abour 3 or 4 shows set for a January debut. I think we're seeing the Batman legacy onit's final legs on KWB.

[TuffyCatt]

...which shows are debuting on KidsWB in January?? :confused:

I think its amazing how long Histeria stayed in the morning slot. I'm really sad to see it go. :(