Does Bruce Wayne has Acute Stress Disorder?

[The_NewCatwoman]

You be the judge, here's the link:

Just click Acute Stress Disorder on the left of the screen.

http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/fr21.html

Now if that doesn't sound like him I don't know what does.

[Barb Gordon]

Based on that, heck yeah he does....reading that made me think Bruce was the perfect candidate! I can harldy imagine how many "illness" could fit Bruce Wayne based on how he lives...

~Barb

[TimTwoFace]

Wow, that site freaks me out, cuz it's so true. And all this time, we just labelled Batman as "dark". :D

It also freaks me out because the head office of the website we're looking at in that link is just down the street from my school. :eek:

-Tim

[Two-Face]

You might want to change "has" to "have" in the title of the post.

[Edward Nygma]

Well, no, not really :

- Marked avoidance of stimuli that arouse recollections of the trauma (e.g., thoughts, feelings, conversations, activities, places, people).

... Wayne actually LOOKS for thugs and dark streets, spends time in Crime Alley, etc. If he had the disorder, he would be living a rich boy's life with rich relatives in luxurious environments, etc.

irritability, poor concentration

He's cold but not irritable, and certainly hasn't concentration troubles.

The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning or impairs the individual's ability to pursue some necessary task, such as obtaining necessary assistance or mobilizing personal resources by telling family members about the traumatic experience.

No, not at all...

The disturbance lasts for a minimum of 2 days and a maximum of 4 weeks and occurs within 4 weeks of the traumatic event.

A maximum of 4 weeks...

[The_NewCatwoman]

Originally posted by TimTwoFace
Wow, that site freaks me out, cuz it's so true. And all this time, we just labelled Batman as "dark". :D

It also freaks me out because the head office of the website we're looking at in that link is just down the street from my school. :eek:

-Tim

Hah, I wouldn't worry though, I think they just research.

And man Eddie, you just picked my whole defense apart. I'll /have/ to come stronger next time I post.

[Edward Nygma]

Originally posted by The_NewCatwoman
And man Eddie, you just picked my whole defense apart. I'll /have/ to come stronger next time I post.

Well, after all, I'm...

::dramatic pause::

THE RIDDLER :D !!!

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Edward Nygma
Well, no, not really :

- Marked avoidance of stimuli that arouse recollections of the trauma (e.g., thoughts, feelings, conversations, activities, places, people).

... Wayne actually LOOKS for thugs and dark streets, spends time in Crime Alley, etc.



But, he does have incredibly strong feelings against guns and avoids them and their use at all costs - because they remind him of that night.



If he had the disorder, he would be living a rich boy's life with rich relatives in luxurious environments, etc.



He does. As Bruce Wayne.



irritability, poor concentration

He's cold but not irritable, and certainly hasn't concentration troubles.



Depends on which "personality" we're talking about. Batman is so concentrated that he's obsessive, and I'd certainly call him irritable - at least he has been in the mainstream comics for quite a while.

Bruce on the other hand is often flippant and doesn't really concentrate on anything around him (of course, the Batman side of him is still watching everything closely). Watch the way Bruce acts in B:TAS and I'd say he certainly has a lack of concentration.



The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning



That certainly describes both sides - Batman and Bruce. Batman, in the mainstream comics, and somewhat in the animated universe, certainly has major issues with social realtionships. Most of the time, in the mainstream comics, he gives his team the cold shoulder and expresses little or no emotion toward them, often ticking them off by his stand-offish behaviour. And Bruce certainly has problems with relationships as well - the way he keeps the women in his life at a distance, having cheap affairs and flings rather than significant, meaningful relationships. A majority of Batman and Bruce's realtionships are disfunctional at best.



or impairs the individual's ability to pursue some necessary task, such as obtaining necessary assistance or mobilizing personal resources by telling family members about the traumatic experience.

No, not at all...



Again, I'd say this very much describes Batman and Bruce. How many times in the comics have we seen Bruce refuse help from Alfred or Dr. Leslie for his wounds? Or how about the entire Murderer/Fugitive storylines? Batman refused the help of his entire team, not letting them in on any of the info he had, and not letting them help him solve his problem. Those all certainly sound to me like examples of an "impaired ability to obtain necessary assistance or mobilizing personal resources by telling family members about the traumatic experience".




The disturbance lasts for a minimum of 2 days and a maximum of 4 weeks and occurs within 4 weeks of the traumatic event.

A maximum of 4 weeks...


Now there you've got a point. :D

[The_NewCatwoman]

Paranoid
Paranoid personality disorder is characterized by a distrust of others and a constant suspicion that people around you have sinister motives. People with this disorder tend to have excessive trust in their own knowledge and abilities and usually avoid close relationships with others. They search for hidden meanings in everything and read hostile intentions into the actions of others. They are quick to challenge the loyalties of friends and loved ones and often appear cold and distant to others. They usually shift blame to others and tend to carry long grudges.

Schizoid
People with schizoid personality disorder avoid relationships and do not show much emotion. They genuinely prefer to be alone and do not secretly wish for popularity. They tend to seek jobs that require little social contact. Their social skills are often weak and they do not show a need for attention or acceptance. They are perceived as humorless and distant and often are termed "loners."

Schizotypal
Many believe that schizotypal personality disorder represents mild schizophrenia. The disorder is characterized by odd forms of thinking and perceiving, and individuals with this disorder often seek isolation from others. They sometimes believe to have extra sensory ability or that unrelated events relate to them in some important way. They generally engage in eccentric behavior and have difficulty concentrating for long periods of time. Their speech is often over elaborate and difficult to follow.

Antisocial
A common misconception is that antisocial personality disorder refers to people who have poor social skills. The opposite is often the case. Instead, antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of conscience. People with this disorder are prone to criminal behavior, believing that their victims are weak and deserving of being taken advantage of. They tend to lie and steal. Often, they are careless with money and take action without thinking about consequences. They are often agressive and are much more concerned with their own needs than the needs of others.


Now, I'm paranoid, and Catwoman is Antisocial, but Bruce has got the other two down solid except for the concentration thing.

[Edward Nygma]

Originally posted by Clayface
But, he does have incredibly strong feelings against guns and avoids them and their use at all costs - because they remind him of that night.


Yes, but you certainly can't say he AVOIDS guns, it's the opposite, he puts himself in situations in which he sees them all the time. So it doesn't fills the requirement.

Originally posted by Clayface
[luxury, peaceful life] He does. As Bruce Wayne.


Hum, Bruce Wayne happens to be Batman. You can't possibly say Wayne avoids situations reminding him his parents murder, it's very obviously the opposite. This is very strong obsession, which isn't listed at all in A.S.D.

Originally posted by Clayface
Depends on which "personality" we're talking about (...).

You treat 'them' like 'they' are two very seperate people, like Scarface/Ventriloquist. If you think he is, then we're talking very serious psychosis, which isn't listed at all in the Stress Disorder situation, and which yet is supposed to come from the same event.

If you think he isn't, then it doesn't work. Wayne/Batman is obviously a man capable of strong concentration, in both persona. Or Wayne would make goofy mistakes revealing he's Batman. He never does.

Originally posted by Clayface
That certainly describes both sides - Batman and Bruce. Batman, in the mainstream comics, and somewhat in the animated universe, certainly has major issues with social realtionships. [...]


"clinically significant distress or impairment", "impairs the individual's ability to pursue some necessary task", "important areas of functioning" : those are about being able to do basic things. Batman is an amazing athlete who during his years of training went all over the world learning the best techniques...

[The_NewCatwoman]

But I see you didn't challenge mine. :D

[Edward Nygma]

... that's because they are true :p !

I guess it all depends on the take on the character. I can imagine a schizoid or even schizotypal Batman and Bruce Wayne. The Keaton Batman, IMO, was clearly both (but was he really Batman) ?

... about the B:TAS characters, I think "schizotypal" for Batman is a bit extreme. In fact, all the first three are a bit extreme IMO for both Catwoman and Batman, these are more related to psychosis (very strong disorders, the kind that makes you locked in Arkham) that neurotic disorders. And I see Wayne as more a neurotic character that a psychotic : after all, a very strong key to understand Wayne is guilt. And psychotic people never feel guilt, it's a neurotic thingy.

I'd say the Mad Hatter is clearly schizoid. Of course, there was his interest in Alice, but he was still Tetch then. I'd say he became fully schizoid after "Mad as a Hatter" took place.

The devotion Catwoman has for animals also make me think she may not be antisocial. She's also against people being seriously hurt (well, not the TNBA Catwoman, though - she certainly fills the antisocial requirements). On the other hand, it's clearly the way the Riddler think, for example. Hmmm, or maybe not, he's not really agressive.

This being said, it's indeed very interesting and I can picture both Catwoman and Batman being that way.

[Clayface]

Originally posted by Edward Nygma

Yes, but you certainly can't say he AVOIDS guns, it's the opposite, he puts himself in situations in which he sees them all the time. So it doesn't fills the requirement.



I don't agree. I think he does avoid guns - by trying to eliminate them all together. And he avoids them in the emotionl sense of the word - instead of accepting them and ealing with them as any other human would, he feels the need to completely eradicate them (usually using excessive force to knock them from his site).



Hum, Bruce Wayne happens to be Batman. You can't possibly say Wayne avoids situations reminding him his parents murder, it's very obviously the opposite. This is very strong obsession, which isn't listed at all in A.S.D.



Again, I don't agree. People can have more than one condition at a time - just because the obsession issue isn't listed as a symptom of this particular disorder, doesn't mean he doesn't have another from which this symptom is derived. I'm not claiming that Batman/Bruce only has Acute Stress Disorder, jus that this is one of many disorders he suffers from.



You treat 'them' like 'they' are two very seperate people, like Scarface/Ventriloquist. If you think he is, then we're talking very serious psychosis, which isn't listed at all in the Stress Disorder situation, and which yet is supposed to come from the same event.



The idea that Bruce and Batman are "very separate people" (aka multiple personalities) has been approached many times in the mainstream comics. And again, he can have more than one condition at a time (most every human being does).



If you think he isn't, then it doesn't work. Wayne/Batman is obviously a man capable of strong concentration, in both persona. Or Wayne would make goofy mistakes revealing he's Batman. He never does.



You are correct in saying that both Batman and Bruce are capable of strong concentration. But, as shown numerous times in both recent mainstream comics and comics of the past, Batman and Bruce can often have a sever lack of concentration and be easily thrown for a loop in emotionally stressful situations.

[The_NewCatwoman]

I'd have to say that I can see where both of you are coming from, and agree on different terms with each of your statements.