You think they could edit cartoons anymore?

[Jimmy Kustes]

"They" don't just butcher classic cartoons, we all know "they" cut up the modern cartoons :

Noggin cuts up Daria.

CN removes Dexter's Lab and Cow & Chicken shorts.

Parts are cut out of the syndicated Simpsons.

Scenes and an episode of Gargoyles are removed by Toon Disney.

Nikelodeon cuts up Pinky & The Brain, Animaniacs, and most likely Tiny Toons.


Something has to be done.

[Dark Vicious]

Anime lovers also feel the pain of editing :( . We hate it :mad: ! This butchering has to end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Magentabeams]

Pretty soon they are going to cut out so much that there is going to be nothing left.

Sarahanne

[RZetlin]

LOL.

Now you guys finally understand why Anime Fans b*tch so much about censorship and editting in anime shows.

[czyznyck99]

I could bicker and complain like I have in the past, but there is no point. Until a small armada of cartoon lovers like us is in charge of editing the shows, it won't change. It certainly discourages me from watching TV. If the network mindset is that the main target audience of young children won't notice the edits, then there is nothing the rest of us can do. Hopefully continued success of shows being released on DVD will compensate this in time. I would much rather save the 45 dollars a month I'm paying for hacked up cable and buy a complete unedited season of an animated series like Spiderman, Batman, or X-men.

Later.

[BrendaBat]

I find it very frustrating that Noggin (a kid's educational network) would pick up Daria when they must know that Daria is NOT suitable for the age 4-12 demographic! As a result, Noggin is forced to butcher poor Daria so that soccer moms will not write angry letters to the network.
The worst of all the Daria edits is the decision to remove every single reference to sex and/or homosexuality that ever appeared in the show (meaning that at least one episode will never see the airwaves again:( ). My opinion is that if the original version of Daria doesn't fit with Noggin's standards, they should ignore it and find a show that does fit their standards!

Don't even get me STARTED on what those @#$!!*s at Nickelodeon have done to Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, and what they'll probably do to Tiny Toons *shudder*! The brain-dead exectutive who made the decision to alter these shows should be beaten up by the countless animation fans that s/he has offended!

I think that if CN doesn't want little kids to see the banned episodes of Cow&Chicken and Dexter's Lab, they should air them on Adult Swim. That way, everybody is happy:D (it would be so awesome to see 'Dexter's Rude Removal' on Adult Swim!)

I wish that there was a special channel that aired only un-cut animé! They could have theme days like "Magical Girl Monday" and "Big Robot Tuesdays" :D. If a channel like that existed, wouldn't have to spend half my paycheck on un-cut DVDs :)

I don't have the Toon Disney channel, but I've heard that it gets REALLY crazy with editing (which suprises me, because they only air their own shows)! I think it's terrible that Tailspin was removed because it has airplanes and occasional dogfights in the air (Disney seems to think "airplanes+fighting=9/11 related lawsuit). Its so unfair that a show made over 10 years ago must be canned because of a dreadful American tragedy that also happened to involve airplanes :(.
I also heard that Disney has decided to cut out many things involving guns (including a whole episode of Gargoyles). I guess Disney has decided to give in and bend to the will of the overly-sensitive :rolleyes: . Many of the gun-cuts made were unnessicary. The now banned Gargoyles episode where
One of the Gargoyles (I think it was Brooklyn, but it's been MANY years since I've seen it so I'm not sure) accidentally shoots Elisa when he messes with her gun. He deals with a lot of pain because of the guilt he feels....
...so the episode doesn't glorify or promote guns at all!
Its really upsetting that Disney, the network that bravely allowed the great comedian Ellen DeGeneres to come out on her show dispite right-wing religious criticism, has gone "scissor-happy" with its own cartoons :(

[czyznyck99]

Hey BrendaBat, the gargoyle you are talking about in your spoiler was Broadway, not Brooklyn :) .

I didn't know Tale Spin got canned because of last September. But whose going to sue Disney, the FCC? I think they have a little more decency than that. It's sad :rolleyes: .

As far as the Cartoon Cartoons go, I really have no sympathy for CN eliminating their own stuff. They are already on numerous times a day, but now getting rid of more episodes just makes them real boring after a while.

Later.

[Elven Moon]

It's frustrating and sad, but as an anime fan I'm used to this sort of treatment. Not that I enjoy getting used to it - but what can I do?

At least with some anime and some cartoons an uncut version is available.

[Allen's Nickname.]

Originally posted by Jimmy Kustes
Something has to be done. Let's go make petitions!

Like that will work. We can't do anything. We are at the mercy of The V, The D, and The AOLTW.

[RZetlin]

Originally posted by Spaz13_88
Let's go make petitions!


LOL. (Again)

Just the petition to ban anime and the petition to change the Lord of the Rings: The Twin Towers title.

The only way to get around the edits is the buy the unedit copies at the video store.

[Pilmedium]

Originally posted by Jimmy Kustes
"They" don't just butcher classic cartoons, we all know "they" cut up the modern cartoons

Do Cartoon Cartoons really suffer from as much editing as classic cartoons? I don't know.

[Jimmy Kustes]

Not really, CN only removed two Cow & Chicken shorts and one Deter's Lab short (two if you count Rude Removal). But the problem is shows like Gargoyles, The Simpsons, etc. are just out of the crib.

[Sprocket]

Don't tell us how bad anime fans have it with editing.

If it's edited, at least you can go out and BUY the damn thing.

Pssh, anime edits are nothing. But when a cartoon that has NO HOPE of being released on DVD gets edited....well then, there's a reason to complain.

[RZetlin]

This censorship situation will get worse not better.

The future shows that I have seen aren't taking any risk anymore.

Sadly, it seems the ones that are in charged are overprotected parents.

[JetMaster5]

Originally posted by Sprocket
Pssh, anime edits are nothing.

What?! Are you serious?! How could you relate these edits to "nothing"? That's like saying an edit of Batman: TAS is nothing but a pile of trash. True, for many anime stuff, you could just buy the thing. But there are some popular anime series that will never be uncut. NEVER! .

[Lindsay]

I hate how they cut up the simpsons for extra commercial time! I'd rather have extra laugh time! They cut the intro and ending down..fine but the actual show is just to much!

Do they also do that to King of the Hill?

grrr!!

[czyznyck99]

The editing could be worse, just make sure I'm not there when it happens, I might hurt someone :p .

Later.

[Sandro]

We can complain and b*tch all we want but nothing will work short of an armed invasion.

[Matt Hazuda]

Originally posted by Sandro885
We can complain and b*tch all we want but nothing will work short of an armed invasion. I'm still preparing for my own evil dictatorship, so it'll be a couple of years before I can take on all the evil companies out there :p


Don't let Pepito take over the world before I do! Join MDawg's evil association, and I promise that you will own your own coutry in 10 years!*



*size of country to be determined when MDawg takes over the world. Not valid in Tennese or Maine.

[Viper]

You people aren't the only ones complaining! I finally got to see how Nick handled my #1 all-time fave A! cartoon, This Pun For Hire. And what happens?! IT'S EDITED! :mad: In the beginning of it, they cut out the part where after Yakko and Wakko bounce around Hello Nurse, they give her a huge hug and yell out her name. They totally ruined a fantastic cartoon! :mad: UGH! I don't even wanna know what these creeps are gonna do to Tiny Toons starting Sept. 2 (Labor Day). :o

--Viper (Hello Nurse's #1 fan :yakko: :wakko: :dot: :( )

[candy17]

Originally posted by Jimmy Kustes

Parts are cut out of the syndicated Simpsons.

These are just cuts for time, not content.

Two examples of edits and cuts for content on "The Simpsons" were:

In "Marge Gets A Job", Bart originally said that he had Tourette's syndrome and started barking like a dog and calling the teacher a witch. When the censors saw this, they changed it so that way Bart has rabies and doesn't call the teacher a witch and bark (in syndication, they leave in the Tourette's syndrome excuse, but cut the witch line and the barking for time reasons).

In "Viva Ned Flanders", Homer makes a reference to Barney Gumble's birthday falling on the same day as Adolf Hitler's (April 20). In a rebroadcast, the line was changed to Barney's birthday falling on the same day as Lassie's (July 15) (Syndication has this with the April 20 birthday, but my closed captioning has the Lassie line).

[Jeff Harris]

You want to know what I think? I think that America should treat animation like the artform it is.

Think about this.

The American Film Institute is a government-sponsored organization that helps recognize the historical significance of American-made motion pictures and preserving them for future generations. The film industry has a lot of organizations that protect and preserve motion pictures. The Television Academy of the Arts is another organization that helps recognize the historical significance of television as well as preserving them. All of them sort of concentrate on animation, but not in the capacity they do for live-action products. More often than not, it's up to studios to preserve their own libraries . . . at least those titles that's not in the public domain, where they lay there to wilt and decay.

Canada and Japan have a great fondness for the animated media. There are numerous institutions that educate Canadians and Japanese about the history of animation, the preservation of animation, and how to create animation. The Canadian government even have scholarship programs to help would-be student animators, grants for independent animators, and a mandate that a good percentage of their cable programming include Canadian programming (also, Teletoon, an all-animation network, is a MUST-CARRY cable network by the government there[you can't say that about Cartoon Network]). It's probably no coincidence that you see a lot of Canadian animators popping up in America . . . they're a natural resource up north.

Now, with that being said, the United States have some of the world's most recognizable icons in animation, from Mickey Mouse to Bugs Bunny to Batman to Spider-Man, and yet the general perception of animation is that it's mostly a kids' medium and have a very limited market stateside. However, the majority of animation fans are adults, primarily because they grew up watching them when they were kids. Most of the shows they grew up watching are either locked away rotting or barely getting attention on cable. Animation should be respected for its contribution to pop-culture as well as for their entertainment value, but as the years roll on, many of these shows and shorts will never be seen again in its original, unedited form.

I feel that there should be an organization that concentrates on creating a public awareness of the animation medium. This organization should help to spread the rich history of animation as well as enlighten the masses about the almost criminal mutilation of classic shorts and popular series. Illustrate that point in a series of print and television ads to drive the message home (for an example, show Scarlett and Rhett's final moments together in Gone With The Wind, or show some clips from that wacko in Utah that's purposely editing out scenes without studio approval in an ad). Help create a initiative to bring more animation production programs in high-schools and in colleges, creating a federal grant program to help them pursue animation even further. Set up an animation program similar to the National Endowment for the Arts to help independent creators showcase their visions. And basically, it should independent from the major studios, otherwise, nothing would be achieved. There should be an American Animation Preservation and Education Society in this country.

[Dub]

Couldn't have said it any better myself even if I had tried....

Unfortunately - as long as money, corporate greed, and unnecessary politics weed their way into the structure of animation as a form of entertainment and as a form of art, nothing will ever get solved sad to say. :(

[Jeff Harris]

Originally posted by Jon "WB" Gray
Couldn't have said it any better myself even if I had tried....

Unfortunately - as long as money, corporate greed, and unnecessary politics weed their way into the structure of animation as a form of entertainment and as a form of art, nothing will ever get solved sad to say. :( Aw, party pooper. Oh well, a guy can dream, can't he :D

[JetMaster5]

Originally posted by Jon "WB" Gray
Couldn't have said it any better myself even if I had tried....

Unfortunately - as long as money, corporate greed, and unnecessary politics weed their way into the structure of animation as a form of entertainment and as a form of art, nothing will ever get solved sad to say. :(

Japan has the same problems as well. Yet they still got an institute for animation. So really, if they could do that, so can we!

[Sandro]

That might be true, but who knows how long it'll take?

[RZetlin]

Originally posted by Jeff Harris
I feel that there should be an organization that concentrates on creating a public awareness of the animation medium. This organization should help to spread the rich history of animation as well as enlighten the masses about the almost criminal mutilation of classic shorts and popular series. Illustrate that point in a series of print and television ads to drive the message home (for an example, show Scarlett and Rhett's final moments together in Gone With The Wind, or show some clips from that wacko in Utah that's purposely editing out scenes without studio approval in an ad). Help create a initiative to bring more animation production programs in high-schools and in colleges, creating a federal grant program to help them pursue animation even further. Set up an animation program similar to the National Endowment for the Arts to help independent creators showcase their visions. And basically, it should independent from the major studios, otherwise, nothing would be achieved. There should be an American Animation Preservation and Education Society in this country.

Who would support such an organization? The government?

I don't think supporting American animation industry is on President George Bush's top agenda now.

Plus you have to set up a lobby group to get the government to do anything. That requires a lot of money. Are you going to open your wallet?

In my opinion the reason why the American public don't respect American animation is because the people who work in the American animation industry don't respect the medium as well.

How else do you explain crap like Baby Looney Tunes and all the Disney cheapquels?

If you want change you have to get to the root of the problem. And that starts with the people at the very source of the industry.

[Jeff Harris]

Originally posted by RZetlin
Who would support such an organization? The government?

The government? The Government of the United States of America? No. Please. I mean, sure, they could fund a slight percentage of the program (about 1-5%), but the bulk of it could come from the private sector.


Originally posted by RZetlin
I don't think supporting American animation industry is on President George Bush's top agenda now.
I never said it should be. I know his cabinet and vice-president are busy right now, and I'm not saying that an animation preservation and education society be created right now, but maybe the roots of it could begin in the immediate future, actually gaining enough respect by decade's end when another administration with an appreciation for the arts could at least consider it.


Originally posted by RZetlin
Plus you have to set up a lobby group to get the government to do anything. That requires a lot of money. Are you going to open your wallet?If I had the funds, sure. The thing about lobbying the government is that you really have to believe in your cause, and I believe in the preservation of animation and the education of the medium through history and creation. I know I'm not the only person that believes in that, and that's why it'll happen. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not ten years from now, but it will happen.


Originally posted by . . . oh, you know by now
In my opinion the reason why the American public don't respect American animation is because the people who work in the American animation industry don't respect the medium as well.
How else do you explain crap like Baby Looney Tunes and all the Disney cheapquels? If you want change you have to get to the root of the problem. And that starts with the people at the very source of the industry. Talk to any animation creator, animator, historian, archivist, and reporter and you'll see a whole lot of people that respect the medium. Whether it's a historian like Jerry Beck who writes about the history of animation on a regular basis as well as actively works to preserve classic works that would be, otherwise, neglected and forgotten, or a creator like Micah Wright, who is upfront about the rights of animators and the unfair treatment they receive, people WITHIN the animation industry respect the medium of animation.

It's entertainment execs that don't give a crap about animation. They feel that it's a cheap medium that could be reran over and over without giving any residuals to any creators (modern execs as well as classic execs like Leon Schlesinger, Jack Warner, and Walt Disney [quick note, do you know who Ub Iwerks is? Did you also know about the Disney strike in the 40s?] followed that example). It's also a medium that they could just put out anything to create a quick buck, thus explaining crap like Baby Looney Tunes, the Disney cheapquels, Mary Kate and Ashley in Action, Beyblade, or anything like that. Honestly, do you really think somebody would actually volunteer their services for something called Baby Looney Tunes? They concentrate on live-action properties which they feel will do well in theaters and television while animation properties, many times better than the live-action counterparts in most cases (see Batman and Men in Black for examples), are left by the wayside.

And the one point I do agree with you is that there is a problem, but it's not in the heart of the industry, but rather those that continue to make a profit from the creators and force animators to do insipid projects that serve only to make a quick buck.