Cell phones while driving.

[Maxie Zeus]

Probably most of us here know that there's long been a move afoot to ban the use of cell-phones while driving. You know, because some guy chatting on the phone is not going to be paying attention and will run over and kill someone, etc. But some of the legislation puts in exceptions for hands-free cell phones.

University of Utah scientists have just released the results of a new study (http://www.nsc.org/library/shelf/inincell.htm). Relevant portion is quoted below:


In sum, we found that conversing on either a hand-held or hands-free cell phone led to significant decrements in simulated driving performance. We suggest that the cellular phone use disrupts performance by diverting attention to an engaging cognitive context other than the one immediately associated with driving.

Our data suggest that legislative initiatives that restrict hand-held devices but permit hands-free devices are not likely to reduce interference from the phone conversation, because the interference is, in this case, due to central attentional processes.


So: If it doesn't make a difference whether the cell phone is handheld or not, does this mean that we shouldn't ban any cell phones, on the grounds that the problem hasn't got anything to do with what you're holding in your hands? Or that we should outlaw car radios, coffee mugs, and conversations between drivers and passengers, because those are all as dangerous as using cell phones?

Given the way those scientists are stating their conclusion, it sounds like they're in favor of laws mandating some mighty quiet commutes. :rolleyes:

[Calhoun07]

And kids. You have to outlaw children in cars, because those are a great distraction for parents. Ever see a parent try to discipline their child in the back seat AND drive? It's not pretty. Cell phones are the least of my worries.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

NO WAY! I was gonna post a topic on something like this!:eek:

Gee, I dunno....most people I encounter with cell phones don't do so hot when driving and holding onto the device at the same time. If it's in thier hands, bam, they only got one free hand to drive with...if it's on thier shoulder, they gotta balance it AND they could get uncomfortable, thus making them get distracted when driving...

The point of the phone is that unlike the passenger conversation or radio, you gotta hold onto the wheel AND the phone. That is the difference between the things you said.

I say BAN cell phones!

[Joe Tully]

I actually would like cell phones to be banned in cars. I think it's too dangerous, one hand off of the wheel and the mind being somewhere else. I've heard a few studies like this that seem to support this. I guess if headphones don't solve it I guess I'd be for banning them too. I'll admit listening to the radio could be a distraction, and the same with kids or other people in the car, but I think that if you're talking on the phone, your mind is usually somewhere far away, concentrating, but if you're listening to the radio you're usually relaxed. I guess it would be interesting to see if they tested to see if talking to others in the car increased accidents and how much. But I think that most people really don't need to be talking on a cell phone. People got by before they were invented okay. I really think that the only people who really need them are doctors, but I guess I could understand if you felt that you really needed one for business. But honestly, most of us really aren't so important that we need to be talking on the phone while we are driving. And the few who really need them should at least bother to pull over, I mean if it's a doctor it probably won't be too long anyways, just something like "hey ms. Jones had a heart attack get to the hospital" Well thats's my opinion. I guess part of it is that I feel that we don't need to isolate each other from each other any more and get irritated when I see people walking around on cell phones talking to other people, though I guess it's none of my business.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by BorgeoisBuffoon

The point of the phone is that unlike the passenger conversation or radio, you gotta hold onto the wheel AND the phone. That is the difference between the things you said.

I say BAN cell phones!

Ah, but that was the point of the study: Does it make a difference whether the phone is handheld or not? And the study says it does NOT make a difference. The problem with cell phones is not that you're holding something in your hand, but that you're talking to or otherwise paying attention to someone else.

Hence, if it's the talking that's the problem, then for the sake of consistency you should not only ban cell phones, but also the other distractions.

[Joe Tully]

Well, I think they'd have to do more studies on that to begin with. Firstly, is the average conversation on the headphones as distracting as conversation in the car, is there as much likelyhood of an accident with someone talking in the car instead of on the headsets. I mean, if you have someone in the car it might be less dangerous because it's less likely to be work related and so could require less concentration. I don't need to concentrate much to talk about how my week's been, but I do need to concentrate to talk about how to tackle some problem that's popped up at work. The question is really whether conversation in the car requires as much concentration, since concentration is what seems to make the headsets dangerous. I'm guessing it's probably less dangerous than headsets but more than having no one there, but tests would have to be done to see if having someone in the car made this made things more dangerous.

[Joe Tully]

Also you'd have to see if people in the car make it reasonably more dangerous. I mean if they made it .00001% more dangerous than it wouldn't be worth worrying about it. Even getting up in the morning carries some risk, the question is if there is enough risk there worth worrying about. And I doubt that there is, besides it would be impossible to regulate something like that. Sorry, I know your question is rhetorical, but I'm just saying anyways.:)

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
Well, I think they'd have to do more studies on that to begin with. I mean, if you have someone in the car it might be less dangerous because it's less likely to be work related and so could require less concentration.

More studies would have to be done, and given this result that's the natural thing for someone to look into. I won't guess what the results might be, but if we take seriously what you say above, we get a funny result.

Either the cell-phone conversation is work-related or it is not. If it is not, it shouldn't be more distracting than an in-car conversation (that isn't work related). And so there shouldn't be anything wrong with allowing cell phones in those circumstances. But if it IS work-related, then it should not allowed because it would be too distracting. But if I read the implication of your posts right, you would reverse the two situations: It's the non-work uses that you would discourage (though they're no worse than normal conversations) and the dangerous work-related uses you'd allow.

So what do you do?

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
I know your question is rhetorical, but I'm just saying anyways.:)

Yeah, it is rhetorical, but with the serious point of trying to figure out the real root of people's opposition to cell phones. They say it's dangerous; this study suggests it is no more dangerous than what goes on all the time. Still, I think most people would just look around for another reason to outlaw them. (As I said, I think that's what the scientist's who conducted the study would like, since they phrase their result in a way that sounds like ALL cell-phones and not just the handheld ones are inherently distracting and hence dangerous.)

So what is the real root of the hatred of cell phones?

[Joe Tully]

But if I read the implication of your posts right, you would reverse the two situations: It's the non-work uses that you would discourage (though they're no worse than normal conversations) and the dangerous work-related uses you'd allow.



Um, no, actually I would want the dangerous work-related use to be discontinued, since that would be more distracting. That would include cell phone use but not conversations in cars. Sorry if my writing was a bit jumbled and confusing.

I think that the only thing that you can really conclude from this one result is that more results need to be collected, more studies need to be done, likelihood of crash using cell phone vs. likelihood of crash without one, and so on. I've heard some damaging stuff but haven't read it myself so can't vouch for whether it's true or false. Even assuming that these results are correct, you need to compare to the average person talking with a person in the car, and so on. Personally, my intuition is that they are distracting and dangerous, but if you disagree, I understand and respect that.

I think that some of the hate for cell phones is just from having to deal with people who try to talk with you while also being on their cell phone or interrrupt a lecture in class with one of those idiotic musical rings or something like that. I think that everyone has had problems like that.

[Inque]

They should ban cell phones. Plenty of times, when I'm driving on the highway, I see cars that are either going very slow, or can't drive in a straight line. The other drivers are too busy talking on cell phones to drive properly.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

You say it, Inque! That's the point I'm trying to make. These guys should pull over and talk....but they're too stupid not too.

Still, we need more studies on the whole thing, I WILL admit. Still, cell phones are annoying WHEREVER you see them!

[Jowy Blight]

I think they should ban Cell phones, My parents have come awful close to hiting people with Cell phones. One day, someone with a cell phone might hit my mother or father while driving. People with cell phones drive very slow, and can't drive in a straight line. They sometimes cut people off or nearly hit a car next to them.
That's why cell phones should be banned from the road.

[Calhoun07]

I agree that there should be a law against them, as well. And how could you condone the use of a cell phone in a car for one use, but out law the other? How is a police officer seeing a person on a cell phone going to know if that person is distracted because it's work related or if their wife is telling them to pick bread up from the store?

[Trent Lane]

Banning the use of cell phones during driving, I'm all for it. Not all people using cell phones while driving are a hazard, but there's a good many who are. I mean, people have enough trouble handling a car without the cell phone distraction. My dad was rear-ended at a stop light by a guy doing 40 while looking for a cigarette. It all boils down to stupidity, and there are a LOT of stupid people on the road these days.... BAN CELL PHONE USE WHILE DRIVING!!!

[Inque]

I must admit that I do drive while talking on the cell phone.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Inque
I must admit that I do drive while talking on the cell phone.

So what do you think of the new laws?

[Inque]

Luckily, I already own a hands free kit to go with my Nokia cell phone. Also I'm in New Jersey, and where I live, there's not anti-cell phone in the car laws........yet.

[The Clown Prince]

Here are two examples of why cell phones need to be banned while driving....

The driver of super model Nicky Talyor's car was talking on a cell phone when he crashed, causing Taylor to get a lacerated liver and almost dying. Here's a story I read in the living section of the paper last week. A family is filing a wrongful death suit against Rebecca Gayheart (the Noxema chick and the killer from the 1st Urban Legends movie) because WHILE talking on a cell phone, she struck and killed their little boy. Had she not been talking on that phone, I'd like to think that that boy would still be alive today cause Gayheart would have been paying attention more. Ban em' all, hand held and hands free!

The Clown Prince

[The Dork Knight]

Luckily, I already own a hands free kit to go with my Nokia cell phone. Also I'm in New Jersey, and where I live, there's not anti-cell phone in the car laws........yet.
In new york (Where I live), they banned cell phones here first.

[DR. BELCH]

Maxie Zeus:
So what is the real root of the hatred of cell phones?
Note that most people who have a cell phone in their car are prosperous to some degree...and there are some people out there who hate prosperity. That's why a lot of small businesses die in their first year--restrictive tax laws discourage pricvate, independent success. It seems those who succeed without government help are hated and ridiculed because if more people followed that example, there'd would be less people nursing off big government, and the Washington liberals fear that mroe than anything. It's the old "don't raise the bridge, lover the river" argument.
And it isn't just cell phones--they're targeting SUV's because they're big, they're generally purchased by the affluent or modestly affluent, and they alledgedly kill people with their size. So they expect everybody to drive a Volkwagon? Nice if, like me, a person is six-one, 220 lbs., and tends to feel like a gorilla in a clown car in most average-size family vehicles. :rolleyes:
It bothers me that a lot of people are screaming "ban this" and "ban that". They're just telling big government, "Here you go. Come into my home and take everything I have that'll hurt me." They'll take your cigarettes, your food, your first-born if they're not stopped...and all in the same of security. Then we're right back behind the Iron Curtain, circa 1945.
Why are we letting big government jackboots replace common thinking and a modicum of courtesy? If you must make a call, for the love of all that's holy, pull over to the shoulder first.

[Kylewayne]

Cell phones in cars are only good when you use them in emergencies. NOT! to talk to your friends. You have a house phone for that!

[Psycho Fox]

I think people should use their brain. Would you like your pilot to answer his cell when he is landing the plane? I think not.

It is common cense that when operating any vehicle a car, plane or even horse (I remeber there was a horse drawn bus up north and the driver jumped the curb while he was yaking on the cell the horses didn't like that one bit) dividing your attention is risky.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by kylewayne
Cell phones in cars are only good when you use them in emergencies. NOT! to talk to your friends. You have a house phone for that!

I would say for emergency purposes only are they good. I've heard more good stoires of how cell phones can be good on the road in times of break downs and road rage.

[BourgeoisBuffoon]

Yeah.....cell phones are good if you need an emergency. I respect them for that.
The problem is that people don't just save them for emergencies....they use them every time they get a chance too. Often when they DON'T need to use them.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Inque
Luckily, I already own a hands free kit to go with my Nokia cell phone.

So, what is your reaction to a study which says that a hands-free kit is just as dangerous as a hand-held one?

I still haven't seen anyone confront the basic conclusion of the study, which seems to be that talking while driving is the problem, not the cell-phone itself.

[Joe Tully]

That's not what I got, what I got was the conclusion was talking on any kind of phone is dangerous, whether that is the same as talking in the car is dangerous has to be tested. I mean, while on the surface it seems like talking at all might be the problem, you can't be certain unless you specifically test for that. You'd have to see if people who are talking to friends in their car crash as often as those on cell phones, instead of assuming that they do from the headset results. That's how you do a scientific study, you don't just assume things unless you test for those exact things, although you could use the idea that talking in the car is a problem as a hypothesis.

Today I remembered seeing something on a news magazine program though which showed that if people were having a concentration-requiring conversation on a cell phone, changing CDs, reading directions, etc. they were more likely to crash. I don't remember much more detail, though.

[Inque]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus


So, what is your reaction to a study which says that a hands-free kit is just as dangerous as a hand-held one?

I say "meh".

Until cell phones are banned here, I will talk on the cell phone, hands-free or not! My cell phone is my only phone!

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Joe Tully
That's not what I got, what I got was the conclusion was talking on any kind of phone is dangerous, whether that is the same as talking in the car is dangerous has to be tested. I mean, while on the surface it seems like talking at all might be the problem, you can't be certain unless you specifically test for that.

Of course. And that would be the natural thing to test for next. And the reason it would be natural to test for it next is because intuitively there seems so little difference between talking into a phone and talking to a passenger.

[Frozen]

Hands free kits are, surely, fine. GOOD drivers (and I emphasise GOOD) are more than capable of conversing with a passenger, listen to the radio, and talk on a hands free kit. The act of HOLDING a phone to your ear is where the danger lies, surely. To ban ALL phones is cars is ludicrous - they are useful in emergencies, and some business people NEED to be able to contact, and be contacted by, colleagues, customers etc whilst in motion... Talking whilst in motion is easy IF you are still aware of what is going on around you - but there in lies the rub. Somebody who doesn't pay attention on the road isn't going to pay attention whilst talking or not. TALKING in cars shouldn't be banned - IDIOTS in cars should...

[The Old Maid]

There are so many variables here ...

A few weeks ago I stopped to help a woman who, I thought, had broken down on the road. It turned out she had pulled over to use her phone. In all the years since car phones have been invented, that is the ONLY time I ever saw anyone do that.

In all the debates I've heard on this subject, no one ever mentions truckers talking on their CB radios. Why? Because it's not a problem. Truckers already live in mortal fear of their load shifting, someone cutting them off, etc. that they pay attention.

Yes, I know drivers complain about trucks driving too close. But nine times out of ten, when there is a collision between a car and a big rig it is the car's fault. If a truck seems to be barrelling up out of nowhere, consider that they can't brake or stop as quickly as you. And quite often the car did cut them off. The driver simply doesn't understand that, because the space between vehicles would have fit a car.

Drivers are too set on the "right of way." What that means is they never assume it's their turn to yield. And it's that mentality that makes a driver dangerous. Not the technology, but the presumptuousness. The arrogance. "I can handle it." So a driver who already has questionable skills gets another toy to play with ; this on top of construction, being in a hurry, and an SUV full of screaming children.

There's another problem I'd love to see fixed. That is what to do about phones in public places. I don't go to a restaurant to eat in a phone booth.

Miss Manners had a clever comeback for such : "It's just that you might not want to discuss in front of me anything you want kept private." That, and in her eyes a truly successful person is one who is NOT to be disturbed. But how can such elevated concepts affect the behavior of people who've lost their sense of privacy and self-respect?

I don't know how phoning in public can really be addressed. But phoning while driving is different. Just as truck drivers must get more training and pass more tests, I wish ordinary drivers could have some objective way to see themselves. The "drunk driver simulation" that tours high schools is a good model. Let's see how many volunteers can still drive, and how many would knock a few cones down.

[Fish]

cellphones are dangerous...but it's ok if you eat a lot of vegetables....





<>< F I S H ><>:D

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Fish
[color=seagreen]cellphones are dangerous...but it's ok if you eat a lot of vegetables....



WHAT??????

You know, I was watching the first episode of Get Smart on TV Land, and there is a "joke" in there that is supposed to be really funny, I guess, where this phone rings in the middle of a concert hall, and it turns out to be Maxwell's phone. Hmmm...I don't think that joke is as funny any more!

Forget cell phones! They should just develop the technology to put little ear pieces in our ears and these micro pieces in our mouths so we can talk to whomever and whenever we want! Hands free!